Well done to the head coach today

The only time we scored and looked dangerous going forward was when we actually got a decent cross into the box and had more than one player there. At times we need to do more of that direct attacking play rather than the endless passing that gives the opposition time to get behind the ball and to press our midfield so we don't get anywhere near their goal. All the best teams mix it up to win a game. Brett made an asute comment that Madine (who had a good game) was more effective when Yates played closer to him
 
Phil. It's the unsolvable enigma with Turts and Hubby.
I did say that we should start with the 2 of them today although I did think Gretarsson would start and thought perhaps we might have seen Turts and Hubby as the FBs.
Never thought we'd see the other 3 new boys in the starting line-up.
But once again they highlighted their ability on the ball is below the level of their defensive capabilities.
I think for the time being I'd settle for a solid defence and experiment with the attacking FBs in the cup games.
Overall a few green shoots today from the Manager and players.
In the words of your favourite band:
"have a little patience".
 
Phil. It's the unsolvable enigma with Turts and Hubby.
I did say that we should start with the 2 of them today although I did think Gretarsson would start and thought perhaps we might have seen Turts and Hubby as the FBs.
Never thought we'd see the other 3 new boys in the starting line-up.
But once again they highlighted their ability on the ball is below the level of their defensive capabilities.
I think for the time being I'd settle for a solid defence and experiment with the attacking FBs in the cup games.
Overall a few green shoots today from the Manager and players.
In the words of your favourite band:
"have a little patience".
I kinda agree i dont like Husband as a centre back in a 2 but there is no doubting his commitment or determination

Turton is just a good solid pro

I think one of the 2 new lads may come in at centre back but i honestly dont want loads of changes

Madine should be nailed on to start with any of the 9 either side of him

CJ Hamilton is another worry as for all his pace his final ball is awful

Build from the back, solid midfield and rotate the front 3 would be my idea
 
I kinda agree i dont like Husband as a centre back in a 2 but there is no doubting his commitment or determination

Turton is just a good solid pro

I think one of the 2 new lads may come in at centre back but i honestly dont want loads of changes

Madine should be nailed on to start with any of the 9 either side of him

CJ Hamilton is another worry as for all his pace his final ball is awful

Build from the back, solid midfield and rotate the front 3 would be my idea

Totally agree again. I also think Wiz nailed it when he said that Madine needed 2 players pushing up with him as his hold up play and heading was excellent but he didn't have anyone to get the ball to and create chances. That needs looking at.

I was going to say exactly the same about CJ, his pace is frightening but his touch and control are not the best so I can see him being used on and off as there are other players who can play there and bring pace and some more skills. Saying that he has scored 3 goals so when he does get a chance he is't frightened to shoot. I think Kaikai is the most technically gifted and would love to see him in the team and enjoying his football, he is always a goal threat and is a very clever player, add Woodburn and those two would be great foils for Madine. However you still have CJ, Yates, Mitchell, Luballa, Sarkic Garbutt & kemp who can play there, even Ward and Anderson too!

If we are going to play 2 pacy players up front either side of Madine then I prefer having a couple of proper fullbacks rather than wing backs to give the defence more stability, so I would play Turton & Husband and have Ekpetita (who I thought had an excellent game) and Bullard in central defence and then either Williams or Dougall as the DM allowing Robson and one other (Anderson, Ward, Virtue or Woodburn).

It is bound to take time for these technically fast and difficult tactics to become second nature to these players so we have to be patient fort this to happen, because when it does then we will be the best team in the division. We're not there yet obviously and it may take a while, but we will get better every game.
 
He's not exactly a novice.

He's been a coach since 2013. Up until 7 months ago with the current premier league champions.
Coaching talented young players to play the Lpool way, that's vastly different from what's expected of him here. This is senior football and many of the players are 25+ and league1 / 2 level.
 
Totally agree again. I also think Wiz nailed it when he said that Madine needed 2 players pushing up with him as his hold up play and heading was excellent but he didn't have anyone to get the ball to and create chances. That needs looking at.

I was going to say exactly the same about CJ, his pace is frightening but his touch and control are not the best so I can see him being used on and off as there are other players who can play there and bring pace and some more skills. Saying that he has scored 3 goals so when he does get a chance he is't frightened to shoot. I think Kaikai is the most technically gifted and would love to see him in the team and enjoying his football, he is always a goal threat and is a very clever player, add Woodburn and those two would be great foils for Madine. However you still have CJ, Yates, Mitchell, Luballa, Sarkic Garbutt & kemp who can play there, even Ward and Anderson too!

If we are going to play 2 pacy players up front either side of Madine then I prefer having a couple of proper fullbacks rather than wing backs to give the defence more stability, so I would play Turton & Husband and have Ekpetita (who I thought had an excellent game) and Bullard in central defence and then either Williams or Dougall as the DM allowing Robson and one other (Anderson, Ward, Virtue or Woodburn).

It is bound to take time for these technically fast and difficult tactics to become second nature to these players so we have to be patient fort this to happen, because when it does then we will be the best team in the division. We're not there yet obviously and it may take a while, but we will get better every game.
I've said all along that i wasnt happy with the appointment

However now he's brought in 17 new players he needs time for the squad to gell

It's quite clever decimating the old squad gives him a little bit of job security
 
Some good points but why do you frequently feel the need to make uneccessary negative comments to other fans? We all want the best for our club and all have our unique perspective. Let's stand united not divided.
Its because we have a load of fans who think they are playing fifa on the x box and you can just throw 4 new signings straight into the starting line up without knowing if they are fit or if they have even trained with the squad

People like Kurt who has about as much football knowledge as a pile of dog shit

Woodburn, Ballard, The Aussie and The Viking will get their chances when the head coach thinks they are ready, not when some impatient fan wants immediate gratification
 
I didn’t watch yesterday but asked on another thread if there had been improvement but didn’t get much response. Reading this thread it appears there was
 
I didn’t watch yesterday but asked on another thread if there had been improvement but didn’t get much response. Reading this thread it appears there was
I think we were more solid having Williams and Robson playing together

That was the main difference for me, Crewe weren't running straight through us when we lost the ball

Williams read the game well and just kept it simple, the full backs were also better 👌
 
I didn’t watch yesterday but asked on another thread if there had bee Madin improvement but didn’t get much response. Reading this thread it appears there was
Indeed there was, but perversely that improvement also highlighted our downside in the fianl third. Madine had a v good game, but was a lonely figure with CJ and Yates nowhere near him (end of first half he even had to nod it down to himself to make something of the cross, which was in itself the wrong thing). CJ needs a rest, if possible, he's getting no joy with 2 players round him and his final touch/ball is not good.

Hopefully Woody will be player who can get up and beyond Madine to cause a threat.

Williams did well, the defence did OK when called upon, which wasn't often.

A better team would have beat us.

So for all the improvement that's the last time you'll see that 11/12 start together. Greta will surely start v Charlton, Hubby LB if Garbutt out. Williams keeps his place and a tweak with Woody replacing Ward. What to do with the front 3 is a dilemma- can't keep playing them like he does.
 
Indeed there was, but perversely that improvement also highlighted our downside in the fianl third. Madine had a v good game, but was a lonely figure with CJ and Yates nowhere near him (end of first half he even had to nod it down to himself to make something of the cross, which was in itself the wrong thing). CJ needs a rest, if possible, he's getting no joy with 2 players round him and his final touch/ball is not good.

Hopefully Woody will be player who can get up and beyond Madine to cause a threat.

Williams did well, the defence did OK when called upon, which wasn't often.

A better team would have beat us.

So for all the improvement that's the last time you'll see that 11/12 start together. Greta will surely start v Charlton, Hubby LB if Garbutt out. Williams keeps his place and a tweak with Woody replacing Ward. What to do with the front 3 is a dilemma- can't keep playing them like he does.
Woodburn should be played wide left cutting in maybe give KaiKai a go if he's fit

We do have loads of options for the front 3 l, just worrying that none of them are prolific
 
Indeed there was, but perversely that improvement also highlighted our downside in the fianl third. Madine had a v good game, but was a lonely figure with CJ and Yates nowhere near him (end of first half he even had to nod it down to himself to make something of the cross, which was in itself the wrong thing). CJ needs a rest, if possible, he's getting no joy with 2 players round him and his final touch/ball is not good.

Hopefully Woody will be player who can get up and beyond Madine to cause a threat.

Williams did well, the defence did OK when called upon, which wasn't often.

A better team would have beat us.

So for all the improvement that's the last time you'll see that 11/12 start together. Greta will surely start v Charlton, Hubby LB if Garbutt out. Williams keeps his place and a tweak with Woody replacing Ward. What to do with the front 3 is a dilemma- can't keep playing them like he does.
Agree about the final third but seeing Critchleys [strange] comments aboutthe new boys it seems it's more likely Ballard than Greta who will come in.
As for the front three, if you're gonna play a front three with two wide men and one in the middle then the two wide men have a responsibility to put some decent balls into the box which was the reason why Gnanduillet and Feeney worked last season.
 
Agree about the final third but seeing Critchleys [strange] comments aboutthe new boys it seems it's more likely Ballard than Greta who will come in.
As for the front three, if you're gonna play a front three with two wide men and one in the middle then the two wide men have a responsibility to put some decent balls into the box which was the reason why Gnanduillet and Feeney worked last season.
Critchley's comments don't seem strange at all to me.

Strange that!
 
Yeah Williams was good and to think people were writing him off after 40 mins of football

Bell ends ...
Correct Phil
He’s a League One midfielder and that’s exactly what we need. Kenny Dougall is similar and that can only be a good thing.
Critchley may be learning that we need to win ugly and it’s probably the way we’ll get out of the division too.
 
Phil finding a weird as fuck angle to say I told you so to tell everyone they are clueless bar him. Levels Phil. We drew with Crewe and yet again conceded with one of Crewe's only attacks
 
I admit I haven't been impressed by Williams. Yesterday against Crewe he played well. Lets give him a few more games. Despite Ward scoring I thought he didn't offer much. Regardless we have stopped the rot - onwards and upwards!
 
Agree about the final third but seeing Critchleys [strange] comments aboutthe new boys it seems it's more likely Ballard than Greta who will come in.
As for the front three, if you're gonna play a front three with two wide men and one in the middle then the two wide men have a responsibility to put some decent balls into the box which was the reason why Gnanduillet and Feeney worked last season.
Don't think either CJ or Yates can put a ball in, certainly not consistently accurate enough to justify Madine in the centre, which means someone else putting the crosses in. Who? and if they are to cross it in the last 18yds they are going to have to be rapid otherwise the defence gets set. Early ball in from lower down the pitch will see Madine isolated.

I don't think the 3 up top works, the 2 wide are miles away from the centre. One plays with Madine the other wide, fair enough, but that isn't what I've seen so far. And tbh it looks easy to defend against. We need midfield runner(s) to get in the pen box.
 
Don't think either CJ or Yates can put a ball in, certainly not consistently accurate enough to justify Madine in the centre, which means someone else putting the crosses in. Who? and if they are to cross it in the last 18yds they are going to have to be rapid otherwise the defence gets set. Early ball in from lower down the pitch will see Madine isolated.

I don't think the 3 up top works, the 2 wide are miles away from the centre. One plays with Madine the other wide, fair enough, but that isn't what I've seen so far. And tbh it looks easy to defend against. We need midfield runner(s) to get in the pen box.
That would be Virtue when fit i guess

I said the other day about a slight tweak to make one behind Madine

4231 would give us more support for the front man
 
Don't think either CJ or Yates can put a ball in, certainly not consistently accurate enough to justify Madine in the centre, which means someone else putting the crosses in. Who? and if they are to cross it in the last 18yds they are going to have to be rapid otherwise the defence gets set. Early ball in from lower down the pitch will see Madine isolated.

I don't think the 3 up top works, the 2 wide are miles away from the centre. One plays with Madine the other wide, fair enough, but that isn't what I've seen so far. And tbh it looks easy to defend against. We need midfield runner(s) to get in the pen box.
The wide players are playing in reverse mode, so are crossing with their wrong foot. The system is designed for full back to be the wide players, and get the crsses in ,as turton did for our goal. But our full backs have struggled to do the twin job of defending and attacking so far. It's a huge ask. It also means that Tayes and CJ are playing wider than they should, leading to a shortage of players in shooting positions, nobody close to Madine.

A three man defence might be an answer, short term at least. But do you change the system, or get the intended one working properly? Will a stronger central defence cope ok, when Gabriel and Garbutt or Mitchell are settled in and doing their job effectively? Could the midfield provide more cover for the full backs pushing forward? I think there are question marks about the defensive ability of all three full back mentioned, Mitchell, Garbutt and Gabriel. This needs resolving as much as the front three conundrum, and influences the front three quite a bit.
 
The wide players are playing in reverse mode, so are crossing with their wrong foot. The system is designed for full back to be the wide players, and get the crsses in ,as turton did for our goal. But our full backs have struggled to do the twin job of defending and attacking so far. It's a huge ask. It also means that Tayes and CJ are playing wider than they should, leading to a shortage of players in shooting positions, nobody close to Madine.

A three man defence might be an answer, short term at least. But do you change the system, or get the intended one working properly? Will a stronger central defence cope ok, when Gabriel and Garbutt or Mitchell are settled in and doing their job effectively? Could the midfield provide more cover for the full backs pushing forward? I think there are question marks about the defensive ability of all three full back mentioned, Mitchell, Garbutt and Gabriel. This needs resolving as much as the front three conundrum, and influences the front three quite a bit.
The problem as i see it is the lack of bodies in the box

Keep the inverted wide players, keep Madine as a focal point

Just play Robson and Williams as holding midfield players

With one of the several players we have playing as a number 10 behind Madine and infront of the midfield 2
 
The problem as i see it is the lack of bodies in the box

Keep the inverted wide players, keep Madine as a focal point

Just play Robson and Williams as holding midfield players

With one of the several players we have playing as a number 10 behind Madine and infront of the midfield 2
Yes, pull CJ and Yates in closer to Madine. And get the full backs down the flanks.
 
Yes, pull CJ and Yates in closer to Madine. And get the full backs down the flanks.
Or play with 2 natural full backs for more defensive security (Turton and Husband) and have the 2 wide players with Madine in the middle, a defensive mid to break up play and give the centre halves some protection and he other 2 midfielders one, Robson doing the creating and the other Asan attacking midfielder getting in the box to feed of Madine and the 2 wide men.
 
Or play with 2 natural full backs for more defensive security (Turton and Husband) and have the 2 wide players with Madine in the middle, a defensive mid to break up play and give the centre halves some protection and he other 2 midfielders one, Robson doing the creating and the other Asan attacking midfielder getting in the box to feed of Madine and the 2 wide men.
That's better. We've been getting caught on the counter attack because of our full/wing backs getting forward. Thus allowing crosses to come into the box and then poor marking by our central defenders.
Yes, pull CJ and Yates in closer to Madine. And get the full backs down the flanks.
Yet it was you who quoted the Ipswich goals! And you want our full backs to get down the flanks. We need to get the defence tightened first. I made the point a few times over the last couple of weeks wthat whilst we are leaking soft goals I'd rather play with full backs whose primary job is to defend rather than wing backs who are gonna get caught out and leave us exposed at the back. Sort out the defence and stop conceding soft goals and then you can focus on players getting forward.
 
That's better. We've been getting caught on the counter attack because of our full/wing backs getting forward. Thus allowing crosses to come into the box and then poor marking by our central defenders.

Yet it was you who quoted the Ipswich goals! And you want our full backs to get down the flanks. We need to get the defence tightened first. I made the point a few times over the last couple of weeks wthat whilst we are leaking soft goals I'd rather play with full backs whose primary job is to defend rather than wing backs who are gonna get caught out and leave us exposed at the back. Sort out the defence and stop conceding soft goals and then you can focus on players getting forward.

I think it’s a luxury and actually a little too over adventurous to play both wing backs and wide men, either play one or the other. If we play wing backs we need 3 in central defence and 2 up front, one playing off Madine. Playing wing backs and wide attackers completely opens us up at the back.

I did think we were woeful against Ipswich because the team selection was wrong, yesterday’s was far more balanced and we looked good.
 
I think it’s a luxury and actually a little too over adventurous to play both wing backs and wide men, either play one or the other. If we play wing backs we need 3 in central defence and 2 up front, one playing off Madine. Playing wing backs and wide attackers completely opens us up at the back.

I did think we were woeful against Ipswich because the team selection was wrong, yesterday’s was far more balanced and we looked good.
Yes, I agree. But it seems Critchley doesn't want to go down that route.
 
We get back to my unsolvable question, full backs.
I have for a long time believed that position is absolutely critical in a successful team. (Liverpool again!!)
Use Daniel/Howe and Garbutt/Mitchell creatively on the wings providing the ammunition for your front 3 who can all get in the box.
I think it was Critchley's plan to go with this option.
So far that hasn't worked because we haven't had the holding mid-fielders behind them coupled wih a centre back pairing that hasn't been solid enough so we've shipped goals
Put Turts and Hubby in at FB and you will have a strong back 4 with an improving Ekipteta and the new boys hopefully adding a bit more solidity in the centre.
It looked a bit like we were half way there yesterday with Williams filling the holding mid-field role.
The goal still came from an intial mistake from Eky quite high up the pitch, Turts failing to cut out the cross and no height left in the middle with Hubby and Mitchell as the 2 defenders back to cover.
So I don't know what the final answer is but I did say before that maybe we should stick with the defensive option for the time being and get some confidence in the squad with a couple of 1-0 wins.
 
That’s the beauty of football isn’t it. One mans god is another mans devil. I have no problem with anyone who rates Turton, that’s your vision, mine is he isn’t good enough.
Turton sets very low standards and unfortunately fails to live up to them.
 
We get back to my unsolvable question, full backs.
I have for a long time believed that position is absolutely critical in a successful team. (Liverpool again!!)
Use Daniel/Howe and Garbutt/Mitchell creatively on the wings providing the ammunition for your front 3 who can all get in the box.
I think it was Critchley's plan to go with this option.
So far that hasn't worked because we haven't had the holding mid-fielders behind them coupled wih a centre back pairing that hasn't been solid enough so we've shipped goals
Put Turts and Hubby in at FB and you will have a strong back 4 with an improving Ekipteta and the new boys hopefully adding a bit more solidity in the centre.
It looked a bit like we were half way there yesterday with Williams filling the holding mid-field role.
The goal still came from an intial mistake from Eky quite high up the pitch, Turts failing to cut out the cross and no height left in the middle with Hubby and Mitchell as the 2 defenders back to cover.
So I don't know what the final answer is but I did say before that maybe we should stick with the defensive option for the time being and get some confidence in the squad with a couple of 1-0 wins.
Until you have defensive midfielders that can cover for the FB playing high up, you can't do anything else but keep the two as defenders first and foremost.

Of course the defensive unit as a whole gets to be under more pressure than it should because the ball doesn't stick for any period in the last third, so we need to make sure we don't just keep possession on the halfway line then give it away when the ball goes forward. Their defensive unit doesn't really have much to think about- it's easy. Give it Cj and there's 2 on him, ball lost. Yates, same, going nowhere and blind alley's. Madine, unless he has a chance for a head on goal, he's easy to look after. We have to have other threats so CJ gets the space as defenders are occupied. Someone near Yates so he has options and someone looking for Madine's knockdowns. We need at least 4 constant 'need to be looked after' threats. Until that gets sorted we'll compete with the poorer teams and get beat by the better ones.
 
That's better. We've been getting caught on the counter attack because of our full/wing backs getting forward. Thus allowing crosses to come into the box and then poor marking by our central defenders.

Yet it was you who quoted the Ipswich goals! And you want our full backs to get down the flanks. We need to get the defence tightened first. I made the point a few times over the last couple of weeks wthat whilst we are leaking soft goals I'd rather play with full backs whose primary job is to defend rather than wing backs who are gonna get caught out and leave us exposed at the back. Sort out the defence and stop conceding soft goals and then you can focus on players getting forward.
I agree, I'm talking about where we need to get to. For now we need more security at the back. It's a key issue I think, the formation requires 3 forwards who are narrow generally speaking, but width needs to come from full backs getting forward. But one step at a time. Can we get to a place where we play 433 and the full backs provide the width? Remains to be seen. Our failure to do so up to now is part of the reason we are struggling in the final third.
 
I agree, I'm talking about where we need to get to. For now we need more security at the back. It's a key issue I think, the formation requires 3 forwards who are narrow generally speaking, but width needs to come from full backs getting forward. But one step at a time. Can we get to a place where we play 433 and the full backs provide the width? Remains to be seen. Our failure to do so up to now is part of the reason we are struggling in the final third.
I would rather have 3 at the back with two wing backs bombing forward to support the attack particularly in the away games
 
I would rather have 3 at the back with two wing backs bombing forward to support the attack particularly in the away games
It might be the only way to get things working. If you want the full backs to commit forward often, you need a strategy to cover them. With a back three, or a midfield that can stretch the width of the pitch and work really hard to stop attacks as well as start our own. Or a combination of both.
 
I think we probably should set up differently in some games particularly away from home where we have gone a very long time without a win (Doncaster away was the last one and that was in injury time)
 
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