Rail strikes

seasideone said:
Let them go on strike, tech will replace them - although I wish they wouldn’t go on strike.

Reality is we are in the midst of a digital revolution.

It’s a bit like sending kids up chimneys and kids down the mine - or even working in a cotton mill - the World moves on.

The reality is those jobs are going whether it is today or tomorrow.

Unions tend to try and hang onto the past and stop change - the reality is the World does not work that way.

So of course they can ask their Unions for help, but it will still end the same way.
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How do you feel about all retail / mass investment houses / firms being replaced by automated systems?
 
I also note that that other champagne socialist stepped out of his Miners funded mansion yesterday and joined the picket line,. No matter wahht 66 says, this is labour driven because all other ways of getting shut of Boris have failed. Be careful what you wish for.
 
poolseasider said:
Every single one of us needs a pay rise because of inflation especially the low paid, unable to work and pensioners etc not a train driver on 58k.
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Few train drivers on strike, some 30 or 40 other categories of workers in including cleaners, track staff , signal controllers . Av pay for drivers probably not accurate anyway.
 
Nothing to do with Labour who havent been in power for 12 years. Its written into rail companies contracts that the govt approves pay awards
So they are pulling the strings but standing aside, , pretending the issue is nothing to do with them , when they have the power to end it. They prefer to stoke conflict for political ends rather than help resolve it. There will likely be more strikes involving health service workers, teachers etc. All of these have had wage rises limited by the govt over the last decade. Govt policies brought this about. Of course Johnson and others ( you know who you are) were saying we could look forward to a high wage economy after Brexit. Isnt happening.
Meanwhile Tory fundraiser dinner yesterday sold off the prize for a dinner with Bunter for 120k .
150k for dinner with him, May and Cameron. Theres the inequality for you.
 
Matesrates said:
I think the issue is not just about pay, it’s about trying to modernise outdated working practices to make the railways more efficient.
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Yes, and that can, and should, be managed by the Government, employers and unions working together. Make no mistake though, the current impasse is being fed by a Government that wants this confrontation in order to fuel its divisive rhetoric.
 
Markobfc said:
I also note that that other champagne socialist stepped out of his Miners funded mansion yesterday and joined the picket line,. No matter wahht 66 says, this is labour driven because all other ways of getting shut of Boris have failed. Be careful what you wish for.
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Figures from across the organised labour movement will come out to support it. That's how organised Labour works. However, if the Government were to get involved in meaningful dialogue with all parties to the dispute then the strikes can be called off and the trains can run.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Interesting story, sheds some light on the issues: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...s-mean-takes-nine-workers-change-plug-socket/

“We can’t roster individuals,” said one industry source. “Let’s imagine you want to change a single socket to a double in your kitchen. “Potentially you’d need an electrician, a tiler and a plumber as your dishwasher waste pipe will need adjusting too.

Alternatively, you could find a competent odd-jobber to do the whole task.

“In Network Rail we can’t roster individuals, only teams and we can’t multi-skill those teams so we’d need to send a team of three electricians, three tilers and three plumbers – nine people to do a job one person could do.
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They often work on their own, when it's a safe environment. They often don't work on their own on high speed lines when they need lookouts etc to ensure they do not get mowed down by oncoming trains.

Of course they could scrap the look out practice, but that would mean more temporary line closures which would of course cause more upset for rail passengers, who will in turn once again turn their anger on the wrong people.
 
Also see this written by a Network Rail employee.

"Three years ago we accepted a 0% pay rise, two years ago we accepted a 0% pay rise. But this year they came to us with a 0% pay rise plus over 2500 redundancies, changes to terms and conditions. An increase from 28 weeks of nights to 39 weeks of nights. An increase from 32 weekends worked to 39 weekends worked. Currently for a night shift we get time and a quarter, for a weekend turn we get time and a half. They wish to cut both of these to time and a tenth. So that’s a 15% pay cut on every night shift and a 40% pay cut on every weekend turn. But they want us to work more of them. This is their modernisation they talk about. Not technology, we embrace technology and have seen more and more of it in recent years. They also wish to fire and re-hire the operative grades and bring them back under a new job title but on £9000 a year less. They also want them to use their own vehicles to get to work sites, this when fuel is at its highest. They will also be pooled when currently they are part of the team. The press are painting this to be about pay above all else. It is not. But now we’ve said sod them we are going to demand better. I wish everyone could see past the government controlled media smear."
 
Costero Poderoso said:
How do you feel about all retail / mass investment houses / firms being replaced by automated systems?
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It depends if the automation does the job better 👍

Technology has been rumbling on for years and I am guessing will continue to do so.

The reality is it just creates new jobs with different skill sets - like it has since the year dot.
 
Just to clarify what a picket is, under the current legislation, there can't be more than six, and they all have to be on strike as part of the dispute.

Secondary picketing is illegal.
 
Wizaard said:
They're not, because their currency has held its value better than the pound.
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But they are. In many European countries the price of petrol is as high as here. I was in France in May and the petrol was just as expensive as here. I have friends in Spain and I was speaking to them only a couple of days ago and they've told me it's just as high there.
 
Wizaard said:
Just to clarify what a picket is, under the current legislation, there can't be more than six, and they all have to be on strike as part of the dispute.

Secondary picketing is illegal.
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So Labour MPs who joined the picket lines have been acting illegally, wonder if they’ll get fined.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
But they are. In many European countries the price of petrol is as high as here. I was in France in May and the petrol was just as expensive as here. I have friends in Spain and I was speaking to them only a couple of days ago and they've told me it's just as high there.
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petrol is horrendously expensive here in spain. in parts of madrid my brother in la has sais 2.40 per litre for petrol .

costco in Bilbao was 1.94 the other day and that is about as cheap as it gets.

prior to covid petrol around here was around 1.48
 
seasideone said:
It depends if the automation does the job better 👍

Technology has been rumbling on for years and I am guessing will continue to do so.

The reality is it just creates new jobs with different skill sets - like it has since the year dot.
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Current technology and future technologies will not provide more or different jobs, you only have to listen to the tech billionaires who realise that the next raft of technologies are going to reduce the majority of jobs to at best oversight roles (minimum wage), which is why they are almost all talking about universal basic income because without it there will be no-one to buy the shit that their robots will be producing.

The automation in investing has been responsible for at least a dozen runaway stock and currency trading bubbles / crashes, all solved by the off switch.
 
poolseasider said:
Every single one of us needs a pay rise because of inflation especially the low paid, unable to work and pensioners etc not a train driver on 58k.
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There are huge swathes of pensioners who will be moaning because their 5 annual foreign hols have been cut to 3. I know a load like that, triple lock pension has been reinstated. Let's get back to the real world, 58k may seem a lot of money but if you're the sole earner with two children you'll scrape by, that's a fact.
 
Shandypants said:
There are huge swathes of pensioners who will be moaning because their 5 annual foreign hols have been cut to 3. I know a load like that, triple lock pension has been reinstated. Let's get back to the real world, 58k may seem a lot of money but if you're the sole earner with two children you'll scrape by, that's a fact.
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Behave yourself half of Blackpool lives on less than that per couple in our area.
That's why it has the knickname minimum wage town.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
But they are. In many European countries the price of petrol is as high as here. I was in France in May and the petrol was just as expensive as here. I have friends in Spain and I was speaking to them only a couple of days ago and they've told me it's just as high there.
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Missing the point. The Euro is well up against the £, so the overall impact is less.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
Current technology and future technologies will not provide more or different jobs, you only have to listen to the tech billionaires who realise that the next raft of technologies are going to reduce the majority of jobs to at best oversight roles (minimum wage), which is why they are almost all talking about universal basic income because without it there will be no-one to buy the shit that their robots will be producing.

The automation in investing has been responsible for at least a dozen runaway stock and currency trading bubbles / crashes, all solved by the off switch.
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Jobs change, they always have and always will. There are many new job titles that exist today - that a few years ago simply where not here.

Tech will change things, just as the Spinning Jenny or the Power Loom did, new jobs will be created.

In response to run away stocks - it’s nothing new - you may laugh - but traders often press the wrong buttons and that can cause stocks to move rapidly in either direction.

…or you get a Rogue one called Nick 🤣
 
Shandypants said:
You're better off being a couple on 25k a year than a sole earner on 58k
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How do you work that out you'd roughly come out with the same household income after tax and NI.
Double the food, clothing, mobile phone,car or travel if you don't work together etc etc.
Discount for single person council tax also.
 
Kip said:
The Euro/Sterling rate is irrelevant to fuel prices. The biggest proportion of fuel costs are tax anyway.
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It’s pointless trying to argue with him
Somebody who actually lives in Spain has confirmed that petrol prices are high over there and he still won’t accept it
Brexit is to blame for everything in his world
 
poolseasider said:
How do you work that out you'd roughly come out with the same household income after tax and NI.
Double the food, clothing, mobile phone,car or travel if you don't work together etc etc.
Discount for single person council tax also.
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You pay a higher tax rate if you earn 58k (40% over 37,700) whereas two people on 25 are on the lower rate. It also affects child benefit.
 
Starmer is acting like a knob, apparently threatening disciplinary action if Labour MPs don't apologise for attending picket lines.

You're the Labour leader you ** bellend.
 
An interesting quote, which will no doubt be shot to pieces by some.

Network Rail managing director Tim Shoveller told Sky News: "We were waiting for the RMT until 12.30 and when they arrived, we had several discussions around even being able to have a conversation so that we could move forward and make the next stage of the offer we wanted to do - those were completely frustrated by the RMT's inability to talk.

"They asked us to remove the letter that we sent to them previously and we've been through that with them to explain that that letter is not material to the discussions we're having today, and that we wanted to continue with the discussions, and they refused to do that.

"They're now asserting we're being controlled in some way and that's a red herring."
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Starmer is acting like a knob, apparently threatening disciplinary action if Labour MPs don't apologise for attending picket lines.

You're the Labour leader you ** bellend.
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I can just imagine Starmer: " Now, that was very naughty of you to do that, go and stand in the corner and there will be no tea for you tonight" 🤣
 
I've heard this morning that ASLEF are asking their members to vote on industrial action.

I will bet that should they vote to strike, it will not be on the same days as the RMT thus closing the railways down completely, causing more inconvenience to travellers and adding to the increase in inflation.
 
Wizaard said:
True enough but fuel is bought in dollars. We get a lot less for our pound than we did.
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It has not changed that much other than a small dip this year, its already recovering. Brexit vote was 2016 and we have been falling since 2014 so its not down to Brexit even if it is easy to point the finger at it.

YearAverage
Closing Price		Year OpenYear HighYear LowYear CloseAnnual
% Change
20221.301.351.371.201.22-9.93%
20211.381.371.421.321.35-1.23%
20201.281.331.371.151.373.21%
20191.281.271.341.201.334.04%
20181.331.351.431.251.27-5.67%
20171.291.231.361.201.359.51%
20161.351.471.491.211.23-16.05%
20151.531.541.591.461.47-5.77%
20141.651.641.721.551.56-6.02%
 
Help me out here
If we automate & reduce staff across all sectors, what will people do? Without work, no one could buy the shit the robots make....

I'll be OK as I'll have my Gold plated pension, but what of my son, who did his last day at school today?
 
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