Trans

M

Matesrates

Well-known member
I don’t understand; as an example, my wife watches Emmerdale and tells me there’s a guy called Matty marrying a girl, whose name I don’t know. Apparently he’s trans, but what does that mean? is he a bloke who thinks he’s a girl? was he a girl and is now a boy, if so does he have a penis, how did that happen and what about the girl? Is she straight, trans, was a boy?

I’m seriously confused.
 
Sounds like he’s a trans man. Born a female but identifies as male.

Can’t comment to what’s in his trousers or what his fictional partner thinks about that.
 
Best you don’t think too much about it boys.

We live in a world of infinite choices and freedom to be whatever you want!

(As long as that choice doesn’t have to involve leaving home and fending for yourself or taking responsibility for your own life actions).
 
MrsDP watches the Soaps, ergo, so do I.
However they have gone to pot recently.
The stories are absolute rubbish, and the acting isn't much better.
Also they take on most of the early evenings TV viewing.
How much do they get paid for this rubbish?
Too much, obviously.
 
Davepick said:
MrsDP watches the Soaps, ergo, so do I.
However they have gone to pot recently.
The stories are absolute rubbish, and the acting isn't much better.
Also they take on most of the early evenings TV viewing.
How much do they get paid for this rubbish?
Too much, obviously.
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Just heard the ITV continuity announcer say "If you've been affected by the events in tonight's Emmerdale . . . . "

surprisingly he didn't finish the sentence with " . . . . they must have been acting it better than usual"
 
April13th1970 said:
Just heard the ITV continuity announcer say "If you've been affected by the events in tonight's Emmerdale . . . . "

surprisingly he didn't finish the sentence with " . . . . they must have been acting it better than usual"
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I fail to understand how people can be affected by Soap stories. Apart from annoyance maybe.
It's bloody fiction FFS.
 
Chunkylad said:
Best you don’t think too much about it boys.

We live in a world of infinite choices and freedom to be whatever you want!
Click to expand...
Perhaps you should, because it's a really big issue.

What's being taught in schools, often to very young children, is both very dangerous and damaging, you've got children being placed on puberty blockers and operated on with life changing consequences that they often later regret, careers are being ruined across all walks of life for those who dare to oppose this nonsense, in Scotland it's now unclear if you are legally allowed to state some basic biological facts, and there's absolutely no scientific or evidence basis to support any of this.

When they come to write the history books, they'll ask "WTF did they think they were doing", and the only reason you don't hear more about this is because the BBC is fully signed up and is actively promoting it.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Perhaps you should, because it's a really big issue.

What's being taught in schools, often to very young children, is both very dangerous and damaging, you've got children being placed on puberty blockers and operated on with life changing consequences that they often later regret, careers are being ruined across all walks of life for those who dare to oppose this nonsense, in Scotland it's now unclear if you are legally allowed to state some basic biological facts, and there's absolutely no scientific or evidence basis to support any of this.
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Nice try Lost. Shoehorning the BBC in there at the end is quite ingenious. Emmerdale is on ITV, but to you they are probably co-conspirators.

The problem with the biological determinism (i.e. that you can only be the sex that you were born as) argument is that it doesn't quite tell the whole story even from the biological perspective. There is increasing evidence that the brains of trans people are somewhat different to the average brain for someone of their biological sex. i.e. there is actually a measurable biological difference in the trans population from non-trans. Here is a pop science article about it, there have been many other studies since then;

www.scientificamerican.com

Is There Something Unique about the Transgender Brain?

Imaging studies and other research suggest that there is a biological basis for transgender identity
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com

When our society has recognised and digested this (scientific) truth, we can perhaps have a more nuanced debate about what is the appropriate treatment for this group of people (if any) instead of dismissing it as 'nonsense'.
 
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Lytham_fy8 said:
Mrs Lytham watches Emmerdale Barn, Matty is Moira's kid, Moira is well tidy, here ends my input to the debate.
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"Moira" was well tidy when she was in Take The High Road but "well tidy" is doing some seriously heavy lifting when referencing her in Emmerdale...!
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Nice try Lost. Shoehorning the BBC in there at the end is quite ingenious. Emmerdale is on ITV, but to you they are probably co-conspirators.

The problem with the biological determinism (i.e. that you can only be the sex that you were born as) argument is that it doesn't quite tell the whole story even from the biological perspective. There is increasing evidence that the brains of trans people are somewhat different to the average brain for someone of their biological sex. i.e. there is actually a measurable biological difference in the trans population from non-trans. Here is a pop science article about it, there have been many other studies since then;

www.scientificamerican.com

Is There Something Unique about the Transgender Brain?

Imaging studies and other research suggest that there is a biological basis for transgender identity
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com

When our society has recognised and digested this (scientific) truth, we can perhaps have a more nuanced debate about what is the appropriate treatment for this group of people (if any) instead of dismissing it as 'nonsense'.
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So you're in favour of serious harms to children, okay, I'm glad we've cleared that up.
 
Lost Seasider said:
So you're in favour of serious harms to children, okay, I'm glad we've cleared that up.
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Deflection. Nothing I have put could lead you to that erroneous conclusion.
Can you answer my point please? In your original post you refer to 'biological facts'. Do you accept that the situation (biologically) is not as clear cut as just sex at birth = gender identity.
The evidence is showing us that trans people are actually biologically different, here is a study from 2022;

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Brain Sex in Transgender Women Is Shifted towards Gender Identity

Transgender people report discomfort with their birth sex and a strong identification with the opposite sex. The current study was designed to shed further light on the question of whether the brains of transgender people resemble their birth sex or their ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Lost Seasider said:
Perhaps you should, because it's a really big issue.

What's being taught in schools, often to very young children, is both very dangerous and damaging, you've got children being placed on puberty blockers and operated on with life changing consequences that they often later regret, careers are being ruined across all walks of life for those who dare to oppose this nonsense, in Scotland it's now unclear if you are legally allowed to state some basic biological facts, and there's absolutely no scientific or evidence basis to support any of this.

When they come to write the history books, they'll ask "WTF did they think they were doing", and the only reason you don't hear more about this is because the BBC is fully signed up and is actively promoting it.
Click to expand...
I thought noone young watched the BBC as it was the ogre of the MSM.

Far better to get your truth from obscure corners of the Internet.
 
Chunkylad said:
Best you don’t think too much about it boys.

We live in a world of infinite choices and freedom to be whatever you want!

(As long as that choice doesn’t have to involve leaving home and fending for yourself or taking responsibility for your own life actions).
Click to expand...
If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choic

#Freewill
#Rush
 
My personal feeling is that someone who thinks they need to transition to the other gender is probably mentally ill.

Doesn't mean they shouldn't and it certainly doesn't mean anyone else has the right to make their life harder. I think they should be free to live as they wish, even if I can't make sense of it.

There's way too much emphasis on it though, god knows how it became a political topic.
 
Foolweary said:
My personal feeling is that someone who thinks they need to transition to the other gender is probably mentally ill.

Doesn't mean they shouldn't and it certainly doesn't mean anyone else has the right to make their life harder. I think they should be free to live as they wish, even if I can't make sense of it.

There's way too much emphasis on it though, god knows how it became a political topic.
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Not mentally ill. Mentally different. There is a wide range across the genders. Women range from the very feminine to the macho. Likewise men can range from the very masculine to the somewhat feminine. In some circumstances these crossovers can go further. They need and deserve support.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Not mentally ill. Mentally different. There is a wide range across the genders. Women range from the very feminine to the macho. Likewise men can range from the very masculine to the somewhat feminine. In some circumstances these crossovers can go further. They need and deserve support.
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In the same way we are all physically different, extreme physical abnormalities are described as handicaps.

In the same way we are all mentally different, extreme mental differences are probably mental illnesses.

It's the only way I can make sense of it all to be honest, and yes I fully agree these people should not be persecuted for the way they (need to) live.

The real question is why have politicians decided to make it a topic of focus.
 
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Foolweary said:
In the same way we are all physically different, extreme physical abnormalities are described as handicaps.

In the same way we are all mentally different, extreme mental differences are probably mental illnesses.

It's the only way I can make sense of it all to be honest, and yes I fully agree these people should not be persecuted for the way they (need to) live.

The real question is why have politicians decided to make it a topic of focus.
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Social media?
 
From the BBC: Weak evidence letting down children over gender care

Children have been let down by a lack of research and "remarkably weak" evidence on medical interventions in gender care, a landmark review says.

The Cass Review, published on Wednesday by paediatrician Dr Hilary Cass, calls for gender services for young people to match the standards of other NHS care.

She says the "toxicity" of the debate around gender meant professionals were "afraid" to openly discuss their views.
Also:

About 15 years ago, gender identity services were seeing about 50 predominantly birth-registered boys in childhood, according to Dr Cass.
But over the last 10 years, that number has grown to more than 3,000 young people, she told BBC Radio 4's Today programme. "And it's mainly birth-registered girls presenting in early teens, and often with quite complex additional problems."

50 is broadly in line with the DSM-5 clinical estimates for the rate of prevalence of gender dysphoria in the adult population, why they're now seeing cases at 50 times that rate is a question that needs to be answered.

The report itself: https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/

....there continues to be a lack of high-quality evidence in this area and disappointingly, as will become clear in this report, attempts to improve the evidence base have been thwarted by a lack of cooperation from the adult gender services.
 
Lost Seasider said:
From the BBC: Weak evidence letting down children over gender care

Children have been let down by a lack of research and "remarkably weak" evidence on medical interventions in gender care, a landmark review says.

The Cass Review, published on Wednesday by paediatrician Dr Hilary Cass, calls for gender services for young people to match the standards of other NHS care.

She says the "toxicity" of the debate around gender meant professionals were "afraid" to openly discuss their views.
Also:

About 15 years ago, gender identity services were seeing about 50 predominantly birth-registered boys in childhood, according to Dr Cass.
But over the last 10 years, that number has grown to more than 3,000 young people, she told BBC Radio 4's Today programme. "And it's mainly birth-registered girls presenting in early teens, and often with quite complex additional problems."

50 is broadly in line with the DSM-5 clinical estimates for the rate of prevalence of gender dysphoria in the adult population, why they're now seeing cases at 50 times that rate is a question that needs to be answered.

The report itself: https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/

....there continues to be a lack of high-quality evidence in this area and disappointingly, as will become clear in this report, attempts to improve the evidence base have been thwarted by a lack of cooperation from the adult gender services.
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So what's your point?
 
1966_and_all_that said:
So what's your point?
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That thousands, if not tens of thousands, of vulnerable girls and young women, have been subjected to life changing treatments on the basis of zero clinical evidence, because, in the words of Alison Person. "as critics like me saw it, a bunch of social-justice cranks had taken up trans as their cause du jour and indoctrinated impressionable youngsters without caring what the costs were. In the future, this will be regarded as one of the most egregious acts of medical malpractice of all time, of that I am convinced".
 
Lost Seasider said:
That thousands, if not tens of thousands, of vulnerable girls and young women, have been subjected to life changing treatments on the basis of zero clinical evidence, because, in the words of Alison Person. "as critics like me saw it, a bunch of social-justice cranks had taken up trans as their cause du jour and indoctrinated impressionable youngsters without caring what the costs were. In the future, this will be regarded as one of the most egregious acts of medical malpractice of all time, of that I am convinced".
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What if the gender dysphoria is the result of social and familial pressures?
 
40 years ago we did not understand ADHD, Pure O OCD, the autism spectrum, and a myriad of other conditions. Now we do, treatements are available to help where appropriate. Gender issues are at the very early stages of evidence based medicine, and social media and the religious right are stifling any meaningful discussion. As long as it is seen as a black and white issue, thousands of humans will be left in misery, just as happened to the above conditions years ago.

Be open minded, be kind, and challenge your own preconceived ideas.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
40 years ago we did not understand ADHD, Pure O OCD, the autism spectrum, and a myriad of other conditions. Now we do, treatements are available to help where appropriate. Gender issues are at the very early stages of evidence based medicine, and social media and the religious right are stifling any meaningful discussion. As long as it is seen as a black and white issue, thousands of humans will be left in misery, just as happened to the above conditions years ago.

Be open minded, be kind, and challenge your own preconceived ideas.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
I'll just post this link again;
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Brain Sex in Transgender Women Is Shifted towards Gender Identity

Transgender people report discomfort with their birth sex and a strong identification with the opposite sex. The current study was designed to shed further light on the question of whether the brains of transgender people resemble their birth sex or their ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The paper shows evidence that the brain structure / function of trans people is different from either male or female cis identifying people. This difference shows that there is a genuine biological difference between trans people and the rest of the population. Science is currently trying to understand the differences.

It's worth remembering that until fairly recently many thought that gayness could be 'cured'. We are currently at a similar stage in our understanding of trans issues.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Of course it's simple when you are simple. Sociology, Psychology and gender dysphoria are more complicated.
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Why the need for abuse?

Can you not debate the point without the need for name calling?

What don't you agree with, are you saying that biology lies and having a penis doesn't make you male anymore because your brain thinks different?
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Why the need for abuse?

Can you not debate the point without the need for name calling?

What don't you agree with, are you saying that biology lies and having a penis doesn't make you male anymore because your brain thinks different?
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Sorry Phil...yes it was abusive but I didn't mean it. I was running a line from Dr Who that I've wanted to use for ages. As for the point, bodies are a function of biology. Developing minds are more than that. People can grow to feel that they are the wrong gender and it can be painful. I believe that it's better to help people in that situation than to take against them.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Sorry Phil...yes it was abusive but I didn't mean it. I was running a line from Dr Who that I've wanted to use for ages. As for the point, bodies are a function of biology. Developing minds are more than that. People can grow to feel that they are the wrong gender and it can be painful. I believe that it's better to help people in that situation than to take against them.
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I'm not talking against anyone, I'm merely getting back to basic by suggesting that if you are born with a penis you are a male

If you disagree than fine
 
Any excuse for this...


'What are the angle grinders for Bill?'

'Playing the keyboards'

'Crack on then...'
 
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