Training ground D-day

65 & Counting said:
Can Sadler continue to provide a competitive playing budget and meet the huge cost of off the field improvements? Club liabilities already significantly exceed assets with an additional £30m? to come!
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Yes, he took over the club knowing what would be needed and will have planned certain amounts for that. Although he has said previously we needed to find a way to do the TG cheaper given the costs spiralled in the last couple of years compared to what it was.

Whether that means building it in stages maybe to spread that cost IDK.

Let's not forget he's still earning significantly every year, a couple of years back the UK subsidiary of the HK company made a lot and he got a dividend of £14.5 million in one year alone, the main company will be a much bigger earner than that.
 
JJpool said:
Yes, he took over the club knowing what would be needed and will have planned certain amounts for that. Although he has said previously we needed to find a way to do the TG cheaper given the costs spiralled in the last couple of years compared to what it was.

Whether that means building it in stages maybe to spread that cost IDK.

Let's not forget he's still earning significantly every year, a couple of years back the UK subsidiary of the HK company made a lot and he got a dividend of £14.5 million in one year alone, the main company will be a much bigger earner than that.
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Yet on the playing side in the main it's low fee, free transfers and loans. Doesn't stack up in my opinion.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
Assuming SS is willing to fund £3-£5 million losses each season over the next 5 years (regardless of division) that’s £15-£25 million more down. And SS himself has supposedly suggested he’s willing to lose £90 million over the next decade.

Increasing the existing budget to attract 3-5 standout players (assume a wage of £6k per week) would be an additional £1-1.25 million p/a in wages alone plus transfer fees so potentially £2-3 p/a with absolutely no guarantee of any return.

The risk of increasing the playing field budget and seeing no return is arguably much greater than increasing off field expenditure and guaranteeing a tangible asset for 30-50 years (before even considering savings from continuing facility hire and benefits from the facility itself)

If it were my money and I had a 10 year plan I think I’d sooner see any additional spend on top of my current losses going towards a piece of infrastructure as opposed to being potentially pissed up a wall with little guarantee of success.
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At the risk of becoming another Fleetwood?
A very good training complex but operating in the lower leagues?
 
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65 & Counting said:
Yet on the playing side in the main it's low fee, free transfers and loans. Doesn't stack up in my opinion.
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It's about our wage bill too, although I'd love to see more investment in real quality younger players who can then be sold on in the future.

We do do it, but to see us taking someone else's top player from the league below or even this league would be good.

With the money from selling players already, if we invested say 5 million into 6 really good players.

It's easy to spend someone else's money though and as said much of it is used to balance against wages etc.
 
AngelBFC said:
But with a top 6 budget . What your saying doesnt stack up does it ?
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If it is a top 6 league 1 budget? We have no proof whether it is or isn't.
Transfer fees received appear to have significantly exceeded fees paid and may well be propping up the budget.
If that is the case then we might soon see our couple of saleable player assets Gabriel and Grimshaw sold in the not too distant.
 
Burnnazzer said:
What in the bowels of Christ does that mean?
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It means that any biodiversity affected by the development (think hedges dug out, grassland tarmaced over or ponds filled in) must be replaced plus an additional 10 percent minimum. That can happen within the curtilage of the site, as expensively procured credits for actions offsite, or a combination of the two. Here to help 🐀🐿🦇🦆🦤🌳🌿👍
 
65 & Counting said:
Will it make a difference? The cream of young talent is and will continue to be snapped up by much bigger clubs.
It's quality players of all ages and good coaching staff that we need to improve the club. Can Sadler properly fund the first team squad and all this, and is an additional £30m of club debt worth it?
I would have preferred a scaled down version.
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And these quality players and coaches you talk of - does it not occur to you that better facilities will help with retention of decent coaches and players? It’s embarrassing that we’re still at Squires Gate and professional footballers and coaches have to consider that their place of work. Also, it’s common knowledge that Sadler came in with the aim of turning the club into a Brighton/Brentford style (not on the same scale of course…), where we develop players to then sell on to bigger clubs for a decent fee. The training ground should be the most important thing to the club by an absolute country mile. Personally, I’d take the new training ground over promotion at this point.
 
Mark_GT said:
It means that any biodiversity affected by the development (think hedges dug out, grassland tarmaced over or ponds filled in) must be replaced plus an additional 10 percent minimum. That can happen within the curtilage of the site, as expensively procured credits for actions offsite, or a combination of the two. Here to help 🐀🐿🦇🦆🦤🌳🌿👍
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Cheers mate
 
65 & Counting said:
If it is a top 6 league 1 budget? We have no proof whether it is or isn't.
Transfer fees received appear to have significantly exceeded fees paid and may well be propping up the budget.
If that is the case then we might soon see our couple of saleable player assets Gabriel and Grimshaw sold in the not too distant.
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Why do you need proof ? Are you police ?

If the hierarchy at BFC go on record which they have done and say its a top 6 budget im happy to accept that.
 
65 & Counting said:
If it is a top 6 league 1 budget? We have no proof whether it is or isn't.
Transfer fees received appear to have significantly exceeded fees paid and may well be propping up the budget.
If that is the case then we might soon see our couple of saleable player assets Gabriel and Grimshaw sold in the not too distant.
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All club accounts are public and can be accessed for free online.
 
FY4Representer said:
And these quality players and coaches you talk of - does it not occur to you that better facilities will help with retention of decent coaches and players? It’s embarrassing that we’re still at Squires Gate and professional footballers and coaches have to consider that their place of work. Also, it’s common knowledge that Sadler came in with the aim of turning the club into a Brighton/Brentford style (not on the same scale of course…), where we develop players to then sell on to bigger clubs for a decent fee. The training ground should be the most important thing to the club by an absolute country mile. Personally, I’d take the new training ground over promotion at this point.
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Personally, I'd rather we had a team worth watching and capable of promotion.
 
65 & Counting said:
Good for you. All great at Pool as far as your concerned eh?
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Of course not .

We got relegated last season which was really disappointing . I'd like us to go straight back up. Its not looking likely . We've got a mountain to climb. Some of the games ive watched this season have been dire.

So all is not great.

However some of the games ive watched this season have been good for instance Forest and Bolton. I can see good things happening on the horizon such as an elite Training Ground facility and East Stand progress having made recently in respect of those. I think we have a decent owner.

I dont need "proof" before I believe everything im being told.
 
65 & Counting said:
It operates on a community / commercial basis. Will Pool replicate that?
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We don’t need the finances from the bar and pitch hire - we need the finances from the stream of young players making a career in the professional game - whether that’s at Blackpool or elsewhere.

The fact is Fleetwoods isn’t a white elephant and supports a non league sized club sustaining League 1 football.

We don’t need it to plug massive holes in our finances
 
LA1 Seasider said:
We don’t need the finances from the bar and pitch hire - we need the finances from the stream of young players making a career in the professional game - whether that’s at Blackpool or elsewhere.

The fact is Fleetwoods isn’t a white elephant and supports a non league sized club sustaining League 1 football.

We don’t need it to plug massive holes in our finances
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Only in as much as the Club will be in debt to Sadler to the tune of £50m by then!
 
AngelBFC said:
Of course not .

We got relegated last season which was really disappointing . I'd like us to go straight back up. Its not looking likely . We've got a mountain to climb. Some of the games ive watched this season have been dire.

So all is not great.

However some of the games ive watched this season have been good for instance Forest and Bolton. I can see good things happening on the horizon such as an elite Training Ground facility and East Stand progress having made recently in respect of those. I think we have a decent owner.

I dont need "proof" before I believe everything im being told
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....and when do you see things improving on the playing side and having a team / squad capable of reaching the championship and staying there?
Having an improved ground and training complex is all well and good but 10,000 fans pay to see the team and not off field facilities.
 
I find it amazing that a very good news story (planning approval for a top class training facility that we have needed for 50 years) is turned into a speculative moan about what financial resources Simon Sadler may or may not have. It will either get built or it won't. Let's just give him time to deliver it and further show his commitment to the club.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
Sooner spend the money on an asset that will last generations and also hopefully pay for itself than a handful of players that may achieve nothing
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...and it remains to be seen whether the 'asset' achieves anything.
I remember a handful of players e.g. Adam, Vaughan and Campbell achieved plenty and got us promoted, excited the fans and increased attendances and income.
 
65 & Counting said:
...and it remains to be seen whether the 'asset' achieves anything.
I remember a handful of players e.g. Adam, Vaughan and Campbell achieved plenty and got us promoted, excited the fans and increased attendances and income.
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True but for every Charlie Adam for 500k, there’s 100 Joe Nuttalls for 750k !

Gambling on the perfect storm of Holloway and that specific group of rejects, cast offs, freebies and unwanted players ever being recreated is wishful thinking
 
65 & Counting said:
...and it remains to be seen whether the 'asset' achieves anything.
I remember a handful of players e.g. Adam, Vaughan and Campbell achieved plenty and got us promoted, excited the fans and increased attendances and income.
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Very much a one off. Massive stroke of luck those players were in the same team at the same time.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
True but for every Charlie Adam for 500k, there’s 100 Joe Nuttalls for 750k !

Gambling on the perfect storm of Holloway and that specific group of rejects, cast offs, freebies and unwanted players ever being recreated is wishful thinking
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Well there's definitely one Nuttall in Joseph!
No wishful thinking here just a vast knowledge of football and involvement.
It wouldn't take too much to improve our on field fortunes if we had someone who was capable of making an astute signing or two.
I'm not convinced a new training ground of the magnitude planned will supply what we want or need young player wise.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
Sooner spend the money on an asset that will last generations and also hopefully pay for itself than a handful of players that may achieve nothing
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True. You don't furnish your house with nice things (decent quality players) until the the house is complete (training ground, east stand)
 
65 & Counting said:
Incurring huge debt in the process!!
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What other way is there?
Do you expect Sadler to pump into the club 40m+ in infrastructure plans as a gift?

He ain't that stupid he'll never get back all he's put in his lifetime even if we got to the PL that extra money would be reinvested.
 
poolseasider said:
What other way is there?
Do you expect Sadler to pump into the club 40m+ in infrastructure plans as a gift?

He ain't that stupid he'll never get back all he's put in his lifetime even if we got to the PL that extra money would be reinvested.
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Getting to the PL would help in that regard but that isn't going to happen with the type of players we sign is it? All I envisage is a lower league club paying lower league wages but with a good training complex.
 
65 & Counting said:
Getting to the PL would help in that regard but that isn't going to happen with the type of players we sign is it? All I envisage is a lower league club paying lower league wages but with a good training complex.
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The type of players we sign?
We could get into the Championship get players on 10k+_like many are and still not get into the PL especially when your competing against those who get millions in parachute payments(3 out of the top four currently in that league in receipt of it).

All that extra money for players won't be coming from 10k or so fans who attend and pay like myself Season Ticket prices which where roughly the same as 15 years ago!
So exactly the same as other clubs it would be put onto the clubs books as debt(to avoid a Tax bill).

I choose the debt to have a new East and training ground many like yourself(no issues) would prefer debt for players.
 
There's a 60%ffp barrier stopping us spending on big wages. Better facilities will bring better talent. City, United, Liverpool etc go through hundreds of kids and ditch them. A club like us with quality facilities could attract a better standard, you only have to look at blackburn n their setup. They've produced some good players
 
I‘ve been thinking about this this morning whilst walking around Williamson Park and Cumbria Uni here in Lancaster.

At BFC all the kids, and the academy train away from Squires Gate.

If I’m correct the Academy are full time and the kids train upwards of 4/5 hours per week. (Insider may be able to confirm?)

To support the above we‘re hiring at least 4 full pitches for an average of 15-20 hours a week, plus changing rooms, classrooms etc. And that’s a VERY conservative estimate given we’re planning on building 10.

1 full size pitch hired is typically anywhere around and upwards of £70 an hour (if you want good quality secure pitches).

So the club are currently spending at least £5-6k per week on hiring facilities that aren’t even ideal. It’s quite possibly closer to £10k. That’s before factoring in classrooms, gyms, medical facilities, storage etc.

So £500k per annum that isn’t going into actually running the academy itself.

Over 30 years (again, a VERY conservative estimate of the lifespan of the new TG) the costs saved will likely pay a sizeable chunk of the initial outlay before any associated benefits are considered or even realised.

Financially building our own facility actually appears to be the sensible solution towards sustainability
 
Building an infrastructure to encourage medium and long term growth (both on and off the field) is a sensible strategy. Players, managers, fans and even owners come and go, but building for the long term is about future success and sustainability for BFC. Investment plans we could have only dreamed of in over 30 years under the Oystons and even more remarkable bearing in mind the economic impact and disruption of Covid and the Ukraine and the fact that there has been 60 years of underinvestment in a low income town like Blackpool. I think that Sadler will have a better idea of funding such investment than any of us on here. Planning for the TG and the east stand is only just coming to fruition, so the acid test will now be the next 2 tor 3 years in terms of delivery and ambition.
Delivery of a long overdue TG is not mutually exclusive to building a decent quality squad, which sometimes also takes more than one season. This squad clearly doesn't have enough quality in it. I am not sure if NC is the right manager, but he can only work with what he has got and we have had a massive churn of playing and non-playing staff in the last couple of years. The majority of teams don't go straight back up and we are probably going to finish 8th or 9th. Disappointing, but not a failure. This season was always likely to be a period of consolidation after last year's shit show. What we need now is some stability and a bit of patience. I am going to judge NC, the management, the team and SS on the next couple of transfer windows and performances next season.
 
bfcpete said:
Building an infrastructure to encourage medium and long term growth (both on and off the field) is a sensible strategy. Players, managers, fans and even owners come and go, but building for the long term is about future success and sustainability for BFC. Investment plans we could have only dreamed of in over 30 years under the Oystons and even more remarkable bearing in mind the economic impact and disruption of Covid and the Ukraine and the fact that there has been 60 years of underinvestment in a low income town like Blackpool. I think that Sadler will have a better idea of funding such investment than any of us on here. Planning for the TG and the east stand is only just coming to fruition, so the acid test will now be the next 2 tor 3 years in terms of delivery and ambition.
Delivery of a long overdue TG is not mutually exclusive to building a decent quality squad, which sometimes also takes more than one season. This squad clearly doesn't have enough quality in it. I am not sure if NC is the right manager, but he can only work with what he has got and we have had a massive churn of playing and non-playing staff in the last couple of years. The majority of teams don't go straight back up and we are probably going to finish 8th or 9th. Disappointing, but not a failure. This season was always likely to be a period of consolidation after last year's shit show. What we need now is some stability and a bit of patience. I am going to judge NC, the management, the team and SS on the next couple of transfer windows and performances next season.
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100% this. (You’ll get slated for such a reasonable and grounded view though 🤷‍♂️)
 
poolseasider said:
The type of players we sign?
We could get into the Championship get players on 10k+_like many are and still not get into the PL especially when your competing against those who get millions in parachute payments(3 out of the top four currently in that league in receipt of it).

All that extra money for players won't be coming from 10k or so fans who attend and pay like myself Season Ticket prices which where roughly the same as 15 years ago!
So exactly the same as other clubs it would be put onto the clubs books as debt(to avoid a Tax bill).

I choose the debt to have a new East and training ground many like yourself(no issues) would prefer debt for players.
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Strange how the Club will be going from being in no debt to £50m debt under Sadler and still languish in the lower leagues!
 
LA1 Seasider said:
I‘ve been thinking about this this morning whilst walking around Williamson Park and Cumbria Uni here in Lancaster.

At BFC all the kids, and the academy train away from Squires Gate.

If I’m correct the Academy are full time and the kids train upwards of 4/5 hours per week. (Insider may be able to confirm?)

To support the above we‘re hiring at least 4 full pitches for an average of 15-20 hours a week, plus changing rooms, classrooms etc. And that’s a VERY conservative estimate given we’re planning on building 10.

1 full size pitch hired is typically anywhere around and upwards of £70 an hour (if you want good quality secure pitches).

So the club are currently spending at least £5-6k per week on hiring facilities that aren’t even ideal. It’s quite possibly closer to £10k. That’s before factoring in classrooms, gyms, medical facilities, storage etc.

So £500k per annum that isn’t going into actually running the academy itself.

Over 30 years (again, a VERY conservative estimate of the lifespan of the new TG) the costs saved will likely pay a sizeable chunk of the initial outlay before any associated benefits are considered or even realised.

Financially building our own facility actually appears to be the sensible solution towards sustainability
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Whilst I don't fully agree with the figures as , say, Myerscough will get some benefit in selling spaces stating a pro FC uses their facilities, I do agree that it will be money saved. Given that, would it not be sensible to rent out a couple of the pitches and generate income, so you have money saved + money generated?

As said above, it either happens or it doesn't, but also as above I share the concerns about debt on BFC's books. I've not seen anything concrete about how the finance part is going to work. It could be a gift. Who knows?
 
65 & Counting said:
Getting to the PL would help in that regard but that isn't going to happen with the type of players we sign is it? All I envisage is a lower league club paying lower league wages but with a good training complex.
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For decades we have been moaning about a lack of spending on infrastructure. Now we have a chance of getting some, and you are still moaning.

So tell us, what would you be doing differently?
 
fcblackpool said:
Whilst I don't fully agree with the figures as , say, Myerscough will get some benefit in selling spaces stating a pro FC uses their facilities, I do agree that it will be money saved. Given that, would it not be sensible to rent out a couple of the pitches and generate income, so you have money saved + money generated?

As said above, it either happens or it doesn't, but also as above I share the concerns about debt on BFC's books. I've not seen anything concrete about how the finance part is going to work. It could be a gift. Who knows?
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To get to Cat 1 and Cat 2 status there’s rules around ‘exclusive’ use of facilities. Also the new TG only seems to be useable until 8pm as per the applications.
Given the new TG is opposite a publicly accessible facility that I believe the trust is currently running (Vida/Play Football) and there are plans to build a community facility at by the stadium (to serve part of town where there a limited facilities) I really don’t think we’re building the new TG with any public / community access in mind.
Given the location it probably only adds extra costs, considerations and requirements to the plans which can be met through other means.

I also imagine that given Squires Gate has a sponsor this all singing all dancing new facility open to hundereds of kids and visited by thousands of others each season as well as top clubs will attract a much bigger sponsorship deal too.
 
I actually read an article on BBC yesterday about the Williams brothers at Athletic Bilbao and apparently their academy (which truly is an elite facility) whilst not open generally to the public does host EVERY young footballer in the region for at least 1 training session each year.

That would be a fantastic initiative to follow to give all youngsters with that dream of being a footballer a glimpse behind the curtain.

May even help solidify Blackpools position as THE team to join on the Fylde Coast.

If you’re a kid do you dream of joining the club with a) the exclusive elite training centre open to the best b) the sports centre attached to a retail park and service station or c) the family bar and restaurant with some nice pitches attached? There’s also option d) the club at the wrong end of the motorway with a an out of date third hand facility and bankruptcy looming on the horizon 😂
 
basilrobbie3 said:
For decades we have been moaning about a lack of spending on infrastructure. Now we have a chance of getting some, and you are still moaning.

So tell us, what would you be doing differently?
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It's not moaning it's questioning the scale and cost of the training complex which would appear to not have a community use element to it. We're a lower league club and likely to remain that way so why the huge scale, cost and debt placed against the Club.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
I actually read an article on BBC yesterday about the Williams brothers at Athletic Bilbao and apparently their academy (which truly is an elite facility) whilst not open generally to the public does host EVERY young footballer in the region for at least 1 training session each year.

That would be a fantastic initiative to follow to give all youngsters with that dream of being a footballer a glimpse behind the curtain.

May even help solidify Blackpools position as THE team to join on the Fylde Coast.

If you’re a kid do you dream of joining the club with a) the exclusive elite training centre open to the best b) the sports centre attached to a retail park and service station or c) the family bar and restaurant with some nice pitches attached? There’s also option d) the club at the wrong end of the motorway with a an out of date third hand facility and bankruptcy looming on the horizon 😂
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The Bilbao things is based on Basque regional pride and it's desire to be independent. They are the regions football focus and as such carry the flag, moreso than Sociadad and Alaves (I think?). To give the kids that training is akin to conscription.

It's still great though!

Does BFC go out say LSAHS and St Aidens and do anything? Genuine question as football on the Fylde should be Blackpool- nothing else apart from the small lower non-league teams. Shrewsbury I know do things in Ludlow which is roughly 25 miles away.

On your point about the CAT 1 & 2 and the exclusive use, that's an absolute joke of a rule when you consider Clubs making losses.

Enjoyed reading your posts 👍
 
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