Stick or Twist?

Critchley: Stick or Twist?

  • Stick

  • Twist

Results are only viewable after voting.
voyeur

voyeur

Well-known member
Some strong feelings on this one. I'm kind of undecided. I was supportive of Critch for a chunk of the season, then became frustrated and wanted rid. Lately I've been thinking we need stability, we are winning games, Saturday was a blueprint for what we want, it would be daft to twist and risk another bad appointment. The season has been a rebuild, we signed too many loans under Appleton, out confidence was wrecked, and so was Critchley's. It's taken a long time to get things back together, but it's coming. 76 points would not be a sacking offence. Nor would 73. What is his sacking offence? Dull football. That's his challenge, for me. Entertain us next season, or go. We don't want a repeat of this season, we want a whole different vibe.
 
hertfordseasider said:
Unsurprisingly……. Twist! I know what you mean about stability but we are going to lose so many players this summer I’d prefer someone else to build a new squad, I don’t rate Critchley and his tactics or his assistants. He won’t be going anywhere but I’m not looking forward to next season with him in charge whatever league we are in.
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We will lose Dembele and Marv. And probably Byers. Three major losses. But we may re-sign Rhodes and Coulson. Apter will be here. We'll need to replace Marv and Byers, and we need better options up front. Maybe Beesley and Joseph will have better seasons if they can avoid the injury problems.
 
voyeur said:
We will lose Dembele and Marv. And probably Byers. Three major losses. But we may re-sign Rhodes and Coulson. Apter will be here. We'll need to replace Marv and Byers, and we need better options up front. Maybe Beesley and Joseph will have better seasons if they can avoid the injury problems.
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It’s players like Gabriel, Casey, Joseph and Lyon’s who may want to leave too, if we lost them, Apter, Dembele, Byers, Rhodes and Coulson along with Marv and a few others we’re not so bothered about, it will leave us with hardly anyone and I would think Grimmy is going to be in demand too. If we stay in league 1 we will be weaker next season.
 
hertfordseasider said:
It’s players like Gabriel, Casey, Joseph and Lyon’s who may want to leave too, if we lost them, Apter, Dembele, Byers, Rhodes and Coulson along with Marv and a few others we’re not so bothered about, it will leave us with hardly anyone and I would think Grimmy is going to be in demand too. If we stay in league 1 we will be weaker next season.
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You're cooking up your own chaos there. Gabriel, Joseph, Casey and Lyons didnt start on Saturday and we were fine. Joseph won't be leaving. Lyons is long term injured. Casey's dad may be an issue, but he's from Leeds, what do you expect?! This is the crap that coaches have to deal with. Apter won't leave, Coulson and Rhodes could well sign. Drop your incessant negative spin.

These are nearly all players Critch signed. So maybe give him credit for helping to spot them, and for making you fear them leaving. We had a big squad overhaul last summer and largely speaking it went pretty well. I think. We were just too tentative for far too long. Hopefully that won't be the case from now on.
 
TangerineBayern said:
If Marv goes Casey is more than capable of replacing him. Let’s not forget Marv was as shaky as a shitting dog not too long ago with his confidence in tatters and was being criticised for his performances, Casey on the other hand has grown in ability and confidence.
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I don't really agree with that. I think Marv is a cut above our other defenders, personally. Quicker, for one thing. Taller. More dominant.
 
As always, there are pro's and cons. I didn't want Critchley back as I don't think it's a good idea to bring a previous manager who would instantly divide the fanbase. I also think our inability to seemingly see past former managers is quite concerning, as it suggests that we don't actually look very hard, and it indicates the board have a lack of confidence in their own ability to make good managerial appointments.

I think we have underperformed this season. Most worrying for me is that there is a pattern to Critchley's performance. Despite our promotion in 2021, most of our defeats away from home were to bottom half teams by a 1-0 scoreline. Sound familiar? I think it should be a concern that he still hasn't come up with a way of winning those kind of games that we really should be winning.

On the other hand, if we were to beat Reading, we would be only 4 points short of our 2021 total, and with an inferior team imo. Ballard, Embleton, Anderson, Yates and Simms would all walk into this team I think. We also have possibly one of the best home records that I've ever seen us have - we've lost 3 at home where one we were down to ten men, and one was due to a horrendous individual error from Husband.

I think on balance we need to stick with him. I can't see that changing manager would do us any good at this point - the decision has been made. I also don't have a great deal of faith in the board to make good managerial appointments, and it does worry me who we'd get to replace him. I know that shouldn't be a reason to stick, but that's where my head's at right now. I also think we're in the middle of a squad rebuild which will likely be more successful if we don't chop and change manager.
 
Can get behind both ‘stick’ and ‘twist’, providing that there’s clear logic and a plan to back whoever the manager is.

However the answer from Mr. Sadler will be stick I’d be pretty confident in saying. Would be surprised if he twisted, but I see the reasoning behind it if he did.
 
I thought this was about the manager and not who is staying or going . I would like us to win promotion ,but I don't understand why two thirds of the voters would want to do it with the most boring tactics I can ever remember . Its been awful this season and I think most of the voters have had their heads turned by 60 minutes of 1 game . In general its been rank and he can stick his fist pump up his own behind.
 
Made my view clear on this last week.

As you rightly say, a coach that oversees a haul of 70+ points in his first season with a set of players should not be sacked. However, the issues a lot of us have recognised are not about whether the football is entertaining or not, it's about the inability to change things that haven't improved all season. The points tally on its own doesn't tell you that we dropped a load of points against teams who are in the bottom half and even the bottom 6. That happened through the season, without any sign of change or improvement. I'd also argue that instead of developing players to finance future squads we've actually downgraded players that COULD have kicked on from a good first season in the Championship.

We won't lose loads of players as Suicidal Herts is suggesting. And we'll replace plenty with new options that offer much the same. The question is whether we can become a more effective squad in what is actually a very mediocre league. As said, the other day, if we get to 10 games into a new season and we're in the bottom half but showing signs of something properly improving then NC should stay and keep working on the project. If we're 10 games in, find ourselves in a similar sort of position (6-10) and we're STILL dropping points in 'those' types of games, then something on the senior football side of things needs to step in and say 'enough is enough'.
 
Same as SATW on this. Unless there's problems behind the scenes we don't know about or we're going to be hit with a leftfield move out of nowhere then you don't sack a head coach with 70+ points. You look at what needs to happen to improve on it.

I don't know what wanting to be 'entertained' means. 4-3's are alright when it's someone else on telly. For me it's consistency. Taking more points from more games. Playing like we look like we mean it. To be able to trust what you're watching. That's when people will want to buy tickets to come and see it. The weekly grind. Going to Burton and Port Vale between Xmas and New Year in a busy period and coming back with six points instead of no points. Being more adaptable in any of the games where we just haven't this year. Having players who just have that little bit more about them than most opposition and a coaching staff who know how to get results.
 
What a difference a month and 4 wins on the spin makes? Barnsley was a great game and at last we've seen what this team are capable of in an attacking sense. I'd advocated sticking with Critchley before April as we have to give him more time and another transfer window to build a team capable of playing how he wants. Make no mistake though, the performance levels against Barnsley need to be maintained, that attitude and positivity needs to be how we approach games. If we miss out this season, we have to start quicker and be challenging by December, if not, we need to review the situation.
 
BFC_53 said:
As always, there are pro's and cons. I didn't want Critchley back as I don't think it's a good idea to bring a previous manager who would instantly divide the fanbase. I also think our inability to seemingly see past former managers is quite concerning, as it suggests that we don't actually look very hard, and it indicates the board have a lack of confidence in their own ability to make good managerial appointments.

I think we have underperformed this season. Most worrying for me is that there is a pattern to Critchley's performance. Despite our promotion in 2021, most of our defeats away from home were to bottom half teams by a 1-0 scoreline. Sound familiar? I think it should be a concern that he still hasn't come up with a way of winning those kind of games that we really should be winning.

On the other hand, if we were to beat Reading, we would be only 4 points short of our 2021 total, and with an inferior team imo. Ballard, Embleton, Anderson, Yates and Simms would all walk into this team I think. We also have possibly one of the best home records that I've ever seen us have - we've lost 3 at home where one we were down to ten men, and one was due to a horrendous individual error from Husband.

I think on balance we need to stick with him. I can't see that changing manager would do us any good at this point - the decision has been made. I also don't have a great deal of faith in the board to make good managerial appointments, and it does worry me who we'd get to replace him. I know that shouldn't be a reason to stick, but that's where my head's at right now. I also think we're in the middle of a squad rebuild which will likely be more successful if we don't chop and change manager.
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Good post. I'm also "on the fence "so to speak, but on balance I've voted twist.

I'm also a little concerned that we either can't or won't recruit new managers with new ideas, although I wasn't overly concerned about him returning because he's already got a L1 promotion on his CV.

My main reason for marginally voting twist is Critch's apparent refusal/inability to change things during a game when we're struggling. I'm not referring to the standard 70th minute here, more a reaction or change of shape when things aren't working, particularly Away from home (where we've lost to lower table sides several times).

I realise he's staying, and I won't be in a "not renewing ST if he stays" mindset, but I recently posted that i thought things looked a bit stale at the club and that a total reset was required. Saturday was a great performance (for 70 minutes) and hopefully that's what we'll see next season (?).We've no idea if there are dressing room disputes leading to players wanting away, so I haven't factored that in to my vote.
 
Dave62 said:
Good post. I'm also "on the fence "so to speak, but on balance I've voted twist.

I'm also a little concerned that we either can't or won't recruit new managers with new ideas, although I wasn't overly concerned about him returning because he's already got a L1 promotion on his CV.

My main reason for marginally voting twist is Critch's apparent refusal/inability to change things during a game when we're struggling. I'm not referring to the standard 70th minute here, more a reaction or change of shape when things aren't working, particularly Away from home (where we've lost to lower table sides several times).

I realise he's staying, and I won't be in a "not renewing ST if he stays" mindset, but I recently posted that i thought things looked a bit stale at the club and that a total reset was required. Saturday was a great performance (for 70 minutes) and hopefully that's what we'll see next season (?).We've no idea if there are dressing room disputes leading to players wanting away, so I haven't factored that in to my vote.
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This in a nutshell.
 
Dave62 said:
Good post. I'm also "on the fence "so to speak, but on balance I've voted twist.

I'm also a little concerned that we either can't or won't recruit new managers with new ideas, although I wasn't overly concerned about him returning because he's already got a L1 promotion on his CV.

My main reason for marginally voting twist is Critch's apparent refusal/inability to change things during a game when we're struggling. I'm not referring to the standard 70th minute here, more a reaction or change of shape when things aren't working, particularly Away from home (where we've lost to lower table sides several times).

I realise he's staying, and I won't be in a "not renewing ST if he stays" mindset, but I recently posted that i thought things looked a bit stale at the club and that a total reset was required. Saturday was a great performance (for 70 minutes) and hopefully that's what we'll see next season (?).We've no idea if there are dressing room disputes leading to players wanting away, so I haven't factored that in to my vote.
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Personally, I don't think a dressing room that is split/fractured etc. is capable of getting 73 points. We'd have lost the time games we've won recently if it were so (IMO).

I'm more on poolfc's wavelength here. The squad - and maybe whole football set up - lacks some big characters that really help us push on and that REALLY galvanize the dressing room through sheer will, presence or confidence in their ability to pull it out the bag when it matters. When we've lost games - often to poor sides or by the odd goal - we've done it meekly and with no real suggestion that we had the fight or knowhow to claw it back. Our captain has been Norburn all season and while I don't subscribe to the theory that he's all that's wrong with our weak performances, he hardly the sort of awe inspiring leader you need when its backs to the wall time.
 
voyeur said:
It's actually supposed to be a form of entertainment, not a snooze fest. 🤟🥳
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Winning football is entertaining as our home form has been very good.

Apart from maybe Peterborough I'm yet to see all these brilliant entertaining sides that are in this 3rd division to compare with.

When I speak to away fans the one word they've never said is that we're boring but maybe their used to trying to play like City with inferior players.
 
Dave62 said:
Good post. I'm also "on the fence "so to speak, but on balance I've voted twist.

I'm also a little concerned that we either can't or won't recruit new managers with new ideas, although I wasn't overly concerned about him returning because he's already got a L1 promotion on his CV.

My main reason for marginally voting twist is Critch's apparent refusal/inability to change things during a game when we're struggling. I'm not referring to the standard 70th minute here, more a reaction or change of shape when things aren't working, particularly Away from home (where we've lost to lower table sides several times).

I realise he's staying, and I won't be in a "not renewing ST if he stays" mindset, but I recently posted that i thought things looked a bit stale at the club and that a total reset was required. Saturday was a great performance (for 70 minutes) and hopefully that's what we'll see next season (?).We've no idea if there are dressing room disputes leading to players wanting away, so I haven't factored that in to my vote.
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It's your 3rd para that does it for me. I'd expect a manager to see things and react accordingly, but that doesn't happen. So why would it happen all of a sudden? I don't think managers evolve in that way. Or even a coach into a manager.
 
Am interested in Simon , he said playoffs were a must. If we miss out and I think we will , will Simon say , ok so near but try better 🤷 or sack him ?
Pool could be about to win 5 on the spin , why bloody now , where was this in season , what’s changed
Away form been horrendous, I’ve said it before , it’s like chritchly was scared to lose , now we need to win at all costs , it’s like the shackles been taken off
Couple players will be older , can they still compete , husband for example
Has Simon the funds to get pool another promotion push
I will be honest I still don’t think Simon wants us up yet , think it was about more stability than push to go straight back
The money u spend or use on wages tells you how much a board is willing to get back up , is simon ambitious enough
He says running the club is more important than going up , so is this still the way for next season , probably 🧡
 
poolseasider said:
Winning football is entertaining as our home form has been very good.

Apart from maybe Peterborough I'm yet to see all these brilliant entertaining sides that are in this 3rd division to compare with.

When I speak to away fans the one word they've never said is that we're boring but maybe their used to trying to play like City with inferior players.
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Yeah sure, but it has been pretty dull and I think a lot could have been done to make the games more exciting to watch. Which is what I would like to happen, and a lot of other people. I can watch paint dry at home, and feel vindicated in doing some decorating. It's not all black and white, I know, and it's a balance of results and entertainment, but there have been more and more empty seats and it's not hard to understand why.
 
I haven’t voted because it’s a pointless exercise. Sadler has already said Critchley has at least next season. So the love in continues no matter what.
 
BFC_53 said:
As always, there are pro's and cons. I didn't want Critchley back as I don't think it's a good idea to bring a previous manager who would instantly divide the fanbase. I also think our inability to seemingly see past former managers is quite concerning, as it suggests that we don't actually look very hard, and it indicates the board have a lack of confidence in their own ability to make good managerial appointments.

I think we have underperformed this season. Most worrying for me is that there is a pattern to Critchley's performance. Despite our promotion in 2021, most of our defeats away from home were to bottom half teams by a 1-0 scoreline. Sound familiar? I think it should be a concern that he still hasn't come up with a way of winning those kind of games that we really should be winning.

On the other hand, if we were to beat Reading, we would be only 4 points short of our 2021 total, and with an inferior team imo. Ballard, Embleton, Anderson, Yates and Simms would all walk into this team I think. We also have possibly one of the best home records that I've ever seen us have - we've lost 3 at home where one we were down to ten men, and one was due to a horrendous individual error from Husband.

I think on balance we need to stick with him. I can't see that changing manager would do us any good at this point - the decision has been made. I also don't have a great deal of faith in the board to make good managerial appointments, and it does worry me who we'd get to replace him. I know that shouldn't be a reason to stick, but that's where my head's at right now. I also think we're in the middle of a squad rebuild which will likely be more successful if we don't chop and change manager.
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I agree 100%.
 
There isn’t a fan in the land that doesn’t want success and exciting football from their team. The problem is, that doesn’t happen very often unless you’re one of the big 6.
When you do strike that gold a bigger club comes and nicks your players and manager.

So for most it is success but dull or flowing football but never get promoted. I always think of Spurs when I think of flowing football and no success. Then I think of Stoke under Pulis with the dull but successful. (The fans wanting short passing which they got along with a nice prolonged stay in the Championship)
 
Tangerine Manc said:
Am interested in Simon , he said playoffs were a must. If we miss out and I think we will , will Simon say , ok so near but try better 🤷 or sack him ?
Pool could be about to win 5 on the spin , why bloody now , where was this in season , what’s changed
Away form been horrendous, I’ve said it before , it’s like chritchly was scared to lose , now we need to win at all costs , it’s like the shackles been taken off
Couple players will be older , can they still compete , husband for example
Has Simon the funds to get pool another promotion push
I will be honest I still don’t think Simon wants us up yet , think it was about more stability than push to go straight back
The money u spend or use on wages tells you how much a board is willing to get back up , is simon ambitious enough
He says running the club is more important than going up , so is this still the way for next season , probably 🧡
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He never said the playoffs are a must. He said we should be challenging for them. With a game to go and one point off, I'd say that's challenging.
 
Chunkylad said:
There isn’t a fan in the land that doesn’t want success and exciting football from their team. The problem is, that doesn’t happen very often unless you’re one of the big 6.
When you do strike that gold a bigger club comes and nicks your players and manager.

So for most it is success but dull or flowing football but never get promoted. I always think of Spurs when I think of flowing football and no success. Then I think of Stoke under Pulis with the dull but successful. (The fans wanting short passing which they got along with a nice prolonged stay in the Championship)
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Think about us under Ollie, flowing football and promotion. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
 
Albert Ross said:
Think about us under Ollie, flowing football and promotion. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
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They are not and it was awesome. Just rare as Albert and unfortunately short lived as both players and managers were taken off us.

Brighton are the ones that have done it in recent times and managed to replace with like for like players and managers through their extensive scouting. However for the vast majority an ‘Olly’comes along every few decades or every half a century.

Your choice is normally exciting but trophy-less or dull and successful.
 
voyeur said:
I don't really agree with that. I think Marv is a cut above our other defenders, personally. Quicker, for one thing. Taller. More dominant.
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Marv doesn't try to bring the ball out any longer, it's usually one touch and pass now. Reckon that's Critch's instruction.
His confidence is back and he's consistently playing very well. I'd hate to lose his presence in the middle and his numerous last gasp goal stopping interventions.
Would think he'd agree a new contract unless anyone's heard differently?
 
Have put twist but we all know that Sadler will stick.
The end to the season has saved Critch especially last weekend where he showed what he can do with a side.
Time will tell if it was down to the players all along or after he brings new players in during the summer if they will also be reduced to passing, defending, non-attacking players.
 
Stick if there’s a mandate for change of play like v Barnsley
Twist if he wants to carry on with the away style of play.
Either way he will need supporting after losing dembele Rhodes Byers etc if he does.

It doesn’t really matter because he’s staying, unless a shock happens.
 
crunchtime said:
Marv doesn't try to bring the ball out any longer, it's usually one touch and pass now. Reckon that's Critch's instruction.
His confidence is back and he's consistently playing very well. I'd hate to lose his presence in the middle and his numerous last gasp goal stopping interventions.
Would think he'd agree a new contract unless anyone's heard differently?
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I thought the message that came out about Ekpiteta was that he turned down a contract and was looking for "Championship" wages.

So the only way he is going to sign a contract is if we get promoted and make an improved offer. Another factor is that he might want to move back south for family reasons.
 
If I had millions in the bank, wore Brylcreem, owned BFC and wanted entertainment on the pitch then I’m twisting.

This boring gillet wearing plank has cost us promotion this year. I tend to think the real millions in the bank, brylcreem wearing BFC owner who says he wants entertainment on the pitch would actually quite like a long term manager doing just enough to flirt with playoff promotion but not breaking his door down for money for players to get us up automatically and will be quite happy to stick now that a few results from mostly abject performances have been achieved.

My guess is he will be twisting by December.
 
voyeur said:
Some strong feelings on this one. I'm kind of undecided. I was supportive of Critch for a chunk of the season, then became frustrated and wanted rid. Lately I've been thinking we need stability, we are winning games, Saturday was a blueprint for what we want, it would be daft to twist and risk another bad appointment. The season has been a rebuild, we signed too many loans under Appleton, out confidence was wrecked, and so was Critchley's. It's taken a long time to get things back together, but it's coming. 76 points would not be a sacking offence. Nor would 73. What is his sacking offence? Dull football. That's his challenge, for me. Entertain us next season, or go. We don't want a repeat of this season, we want a whole different vibe.
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A sensible and balanced view. I will judge him and the management team next season and after next couple of transfer windows
 
I said 3/4 months ago that anything less than Top 8 would be a failure. Even if we lose on Saturday, it's fine margins between missing out and a play off place and the last 10 games have us 6th and even though he was an ex-manager, Critchley was still a new manager last summer taking on a depleted side that had just been relegated from the Championship, went through lots of changes behind the scenes and I don't remember much frustration at the way we played earlier in the season, just the results.
I think he is a very methodical manager and he has done what he's had to do to get results even if some games haven't gone to plan (and I still put that down to how weak were are up front in comparison to others above us).
Definitely stick for me - be interesting to see how we look and how we do in August.
 
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