If I was Simon Sadler

LeedsSeasider

LeedsSeasider

Well-known member
I’d honestly despair at reading some of the comments on this board and on social media. The guy has come in and saved us from the absolute shit show of the Oyston’s. He’s pumped millions into the club, not just the playing side and set up but the behind the scenes stuff too.

Just one comment that caught my eye was: “Every other game in league one was on yesterday apart from ours, we’re beginning to look tinpot”. I’m not sure if any of you are aware, it often rains in some places and not in others.

I hope that if you do read the board Simon, a fair few of us are extremely happy just to have a club to support as we nearly didn’t have one.

In Sadler we trust. Utmp.
 
LeedsSeasider said:
I’d honestly despair at reading some of the comments on this board and on social media. The guy has come in and saved us from the absolute shit show of the Oyston’s. He’s pumped millions into the club, not just the playing side and set up but the behind the scenes stuff too.

Just one comment that caught my eye was: “Every other game in league one was on yesterday apart from ours, we’re beginning to look tinpot”. I’m not sure if any of you are aware, it often rains in some places and not in others.

I hope that if you do read the board Simon, a fair few of us are extremely happy just to have a club to support as we nearly didn’t have one.

In Sadler we trust. Utmp.
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Get off your high horse. Another boring holier than thou superfan post. Yawn.
 
LeedsSeasider said:
Ironic coming from you. Didn’t think you wanted to “stifle people’s opinions”
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It's not an opinion though. It's a speech to Simon Sadler belittling other supporters. "Oh please ignore these yobbos dearest Simon". I very much doubt Mr Sadler would give a monkeys about a few throw away comments about the pitch after the abandoned match even if he did read AVFTT.
 
Macseasider said:
It's not an opinion though. It's a speech to Simon Sadler belittling other supporters. "Oh please ignore these yobbos dearest Simon". I very much doubt Mr Sadler would give a monkeys about a few throw away comments about the pitch after the abandoned match even if he did read AVFTT.
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It is an opinion. It’s my opinion that these comments are stupid. It’s also ironic that you said I was holier than thou when that’s exactly what you’re doing right now.
 
A lot of OTT reaction to things at the moment whether it be games getting called off , the manager etc. The posponements i could understand a bit if people had actually gone to the game. I saw a tweet yesterday straight after the postponement calling the groundsman a prick. Its just ridiculous on so many levels.
I do keep saying we have a section of fans who have this billy big bollocks attitude and it does us no favours at all.
I dont see any direct criticism of Simon Sadler but who knows a year or two down the line? Reading some of the stuff on here and on twiitter then it could easily happen eventually which would be ridiculous. We are lucky to have him as the O/P suggests.
 
PNENIL said:
A lot of OTT reaction to things at the moment whether it be games getting called off , the manager etc. The posponements i could understand a bit if people had actually gone to the game. I saw a tweet yesterday straight after the postponement calling the groundsman a prick. Its just ridiculous on so many levels.
I do keep saying we have a section of fans who have this billy big bollocks attitude and it does us no favours at all.
I dont see any direct criticism of Simon Sadler but who knows a year or two down the line? Reading some of the stuff on here and on twiitter then it could easily happen eventually which would be ridiculous. We are lucky to have him as the O/P suggests.
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It’s more indirect. I’d be thinking “what the hell can I do right?”

The same people that criticise don’t take all the good things he’s done on board.
 
LeedsSeasider said:
I’d honestly despair at reading some of the comments on this board and on social media. The guy has come in and saved us from the absolute shit show of the Oyston’s. He’s pumped millions into the club, not just the playing side and set up but the behind the scenes stuff too.

Just one comment that caught my eye was: “Every other game in league one was on yesterday apart from ours, we’re beginning to look tinpot”. I’m not sure if any of you are aware, it often rains in some places and not in others.

I hope that if you do read the board Simon, a fair few of us are extremely happy just to have a club to support as we nearly didn’t have one.

In Sadler we trust. Utmp.
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It does often rain in some places and not in others. However I stand corrected if anyone knows different, but I don’t believe it’s ever rained just in Blackpool and nowhere else in the country.
 
If I was pumping millions of quid of mine and my families money into the football club (knowing I’m almost certainly never going to see any of it back) I’d certainly be less incentivised to continue doing so when those who are benefiting are slagging off the club. He didn’t have to buy the club and he doesn’t have to throw good money after bad.
If he wanted to run the club so it operated self sufficiently then we’d be all absolutely screwed.
We wouldn’t be getting uppity about a game be called off, we’d be getting uppity about having to sell every saleable asset we owned down to the lawnmowers and rakes.

A lot of our fans need to get real.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
If I was pumping millions of quid of mine and my families money into the football club (knowing I’m almost certainly never going to see any of it back) I’d certainly be less incentivised to continue doing so when those who are benefiting are slagging off the club. He didn’t have to buy the club and he doesn’t have to throw good money after bad.
If he wanted to run the club so it operated self sufficiently then we’d be all absolutely screwed.
We wouldn’t be getting uppity about a game be called off, we’d be getting uppity about having to sell every saleable asset we owned down to the lawnmowers and rakes.

A lot of our fans need to get real.
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I think reality is that owning a football club will always attract negatives and positive comment. If he wanted 100% worship all the time maybe he should have bought a Popemobile and hired a driver to run him up and down the promenade so he can chuck £50 notes at the populus.
 
I do think that some people need to remember that it will take years to undo everything that family did to us.
It will take patience whilst it gets sorted.
Calling us tinpot because our owner hasn't paid £750,000 to £1,000,000 to get the pitch in perfect condition in the middle of a global pandemic is a overreaction to me.
Just my opinion though.
 
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LA1 Seasider said:
If I was pumping millions of quid of mine and my families money into the football club (knowing I’m almost certainly never going to see any of it back) I’d certainly be less incentivised to continue doing so when those who are benefiting are slagging off the club. He didn’t have to buy the club and he doesn’t have to throw good money after bad.
If he wanted to run the club so it operated self sufficiently then we’d be all absolutely screwed.
We wouldn’t be getting uppity about a game be called off, we’d be getting uppity about having to sell every saleable asset we owned down to the lawnmowers and rakes.

A lot of our fans need to get real.
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I wish I’d have put it like this.
 
Fans are passionate and not everyone reacts the same way, people care about the club and while some of the comments were OTT in the heat of the moment it was only to be expected. The club have stated they are having an enquiry into the reason why we've lost 4 matches to the weather and that will do for me. Nobody was more angrier than me last night I just didn't go to press. It is clear and obvious the club is being professionally run from top to bottom now and I've no doubt they will sort the problem out.

I've never seen negativity towards Simon Sadler and as Clappers says he is a local lad and a football fan himself, I bet he wouldn't expect the reaction to be any different. We love the club and frustrations some times come out in different ways. It's water under the bridge, no pun intended.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
If I was pumping millions of quid of mine and my families money into the football club (knowing I’m almost certainly never going to see any of it back) I’d certainly be less incentivised to continue doing so when those who are benefiting are slagging off the club. He didn’t have to buy the club and he doesn’t have to throw good money after bad.
If he wanted to run the club so it operated self sufficiently then we’d be all absolutely screwed.
We wouldn’t be getting uppity about a game be called off, we’d be getting uppity about having to sell every saleable asset we owned down to the lawnmowers and rakes.

A lot of our fans need to get real.
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Those are fair comments and whilst I'm sure Simon Sadler reads the messageboard (or is at least made aware of the contents) he might just be a bit more thick skinned than you give him credit for.
 
You can find a plethora of examples on this forum of almost God like worship of Sadler.

I imagine majority of us will be eternally grateful to him for what he has done, and continues to do for the club. I'm sure he has thicker skin than to despair reading throw away comments made in the heat of the moment straight after the 4th game in a month is postponed - and thats if he'd read them anyway.

I also feel as though Sadler would want us to behave like normal football fans, a privilege we've been denied for sometime, rather than feel as though we can not criticise/whinge about anything concerning the club. I doubt he sees himself as some glorious benefactor who we should bow before, and he invests on the premise that the club shall never be slagged whilst under his stewardship.

Of course there was those who took it to far last night but that is just how the Internet works and isn't exclusive to Blackpool fans. IMO we shouldn't create a culture as fans where the club becomes something that we can not say anything remotely negative about - there are things that will go right more times than wrong but when they do go wrong we'll have a whinge on here and twitter and that'll be that, it doesn't mean we aren't thankful of Sadler and everything he does
 
This forum still serves a function to express opinions on anything at the time without trawling back through the comments and dissecting them.
Think of it as a therapy group and place no more than negligible store on the content.
Folk are easily offended these days. Brush it off. I’m laughing about it already after my initial reaction last night of annoyance and seeking answers.
 
It's a poxy football forum what we supposed to discuss?

A very rich man buys the football club he supports it happens so even though I'm grateful no way should we kiss the blokes backside and not criticize when things like last night go wrong.

We as fans are all shareholders in the club and spend-salary hand over plenty in a percentage year on year so spare the lecture on pumping money into the club we all bloody do.
 
Some people getting worked up and letting off steam over nothing it’s a football forum for Gods sake.
Look the game shouldn’t have been postponed after 4-5 hours of rain the surface couldn’t handle it and I’am sure it will be addressed one way or the other
but fans are right to say what they want were all disappointed it was called off just an hour before K/O.
I personally have not read any abuse directed at SS but calling for the groundsman’s head was totally uncalled for and to bring up his lack of qualifications (to quote one poster) was just embarrassing to read.
The situations not great but I’am pretty dam sure its already on the bucket list of things to do.
 
Don’t think anyone is criticising Sadler but it is frustrating these games are been called off. Maybe it’s just bad luck and bad timing that we have a new groundsman but we really needed to play Donny last night given the form of both teams. Think it will hurt us with all these games in hand towards the back end of the season.
 
LeedsSeasider said:
I’d honestly despair at reading some of the comments on this board and on social media. The guy has come in and saved us from the absolute shit show of the Oyston’s. He’s pumped millions into the club, not just the playing side and set up but the behind the scenes stuff too.

Just one comment that caught my eye was: “Every other game in league one was on yesterday apart from ours, we’re beginning to look tinpot”. I’m not sure if any of you are aware, it often rains in some places and not in others.

I hope that if you do read the board Simon, a fair few of us are extremely happy just to have a club to support as we nearly didn’t have one.

In Sadler we trust. Utmp.
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Here here fella top post.
 
LeedsSeasider said:
I’d honestly despair at reading some of the comments on this board and on social media. The guy has come in and saved us from the absolute shit show of the Oyston’s. He’s pumped millions into the club, not just the playing side and set up but the behind the scenes stuff too.

Just one comment that caught my eye was: “Every other game in league one was on yesterday apart from ours, we’re beginning to look tinpot”. I’m not sure if any of you are aware, it often rains in some places and not in others.

I hope that if you do read the board Simon, a fair few of us are extremely happy just to have a club to support as we nearly didn’t have one.

In Sadler we trust. Utmp.
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Couldn’t agree more with this 👍🏻
 
It’s just bad luck.
Masterful bad timing of shïte Tuesday weather in the wrong place at the wrong time.
If it isn’t Covid it’s bloody ice or rain.
The initial reaction was exactly that. A reaction. I mean, what next? Meteor strike? Earthquake?
And can we sign Dwayne Johnson to the main lead?
 
Macseasider said:
It's not an opinion though. It's a speech to Simon Sadler belittling other supporters. "Oh please ignore these yobbos dearest Simon". I very much doubt Mr Sadler would give a monkeys about a few throw away comments about the pitch after the abandoned match even if he did read AVFTT.
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It wasn’t abandoned, it was postponed the game didn’t start😉
 
Goforgoal said:
It does often rain in some places and not in others. However I stand corrected if anyone knows different, but I don’t believe it’s ever rained just in Blackpool and nowhere else in the country.
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I lived in knobbersville for many years and I have been to loads of home games when its been raining in knobbersville.
Get to Kirkham and you can see clear blue sky over the Mighty. Crackin't flags on the seaside.

Same with the rain in really bad weather as some places within the weather front take the brunt of it.

It's just crazy all this shitstorm that followed a postponement in which no one has lost a penny because no one was there.
 
Simonized said:
I lived in knobbersville for many years and I have been to loads of home games when its been raining in knobbersville.
Get to Kirkham and you can see clear blue sky over the Mighty. Crackin't flags on the seaside.

Same with the rain in really bad weather as some places within the weather front take the brunt of it.

It's just crazy all this shitstorm that followed a postponement in which no one has lost a penny because no one was there.
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The point I’m making is it can’t all be blamed on the weather. Ours was the only match called off, my son lives in Oldham and it was pouring down all day, they played. It didn’t start raining in Blackpool until about 3, postponed, it’s not just the weather. I’m not one calling for anybody’s job, just an explanation from the club, which we eventually got. I would now think that any fair minded person, including myself, is now satisfied, and is prepared to see what happens close season.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
If I was pumping millions of quid of mine and my families money into the football club (knowing I’m almost certainly never going to see any of it back) I’d certainly be less incentivised to continue doing so when those who are benefiting are slagging off the club. He didn’t have to buy the club and he doesn’t have to throw good money after bad.
If he wanted to run the club so it operated self sufficiently then we’d be all absolutely screwed.
We wouldn’t be getting uppity about a game be called off, we’d be getting uppity about having to sell every saleable asset we owned down to the lawnmowers and rakes.

A lot of our fans need to get real.
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I'd also be questioning why admittedly only a few want season ticket refunds when I'm investing tens of millions into the club. It's not like the terms weren't clear when they went on sale.
 
The thing that struck me about all this was that the groundsman ended up feeling he needed to delete his Twitter account because of the abuse he received last night. In the event, we learned from the club's CEO that there is an underlying, long-term structural problem. And that the covers designed to protect the playing surface from frost would have made no difference whatsoever.

So it seems that all that abuse was misconceived ; I wonder how many of the people responsible for it have taken to Twitter tonight to take it back or apologise? Not many, I'll bet. That's the problem with social media - it's easy to lash out with your XXX characters or less. A lot harder to take it all back.

As others have said, none of us were particularly inconvenienced last night. So all the sound and fury was pique, really. And uninformed pique at that.

I don't think the owner - or his management team - can demand a blank cheque from the support. Equally, I don't think anyone could reasonably say that they are asking for one. Criticism - justified criticism - is part of the business they are in. But this isn't just about what we expect from them, is it? If this is a partnership worth a damn then they are entitled to have some expectations of us too. And we as supporters should have some expectations of one another.

I don't think our "rights" as supporters run as far as abusing an employee of the club without good reason. I don't think they run as far as accusing the club of conniving at getting the game called off to suit their convenience either. If you are going to say that - and it has been said - then you really ought to have some proof to back it up. I don't think there is any, is there?

I'm as disappointed as anyone that we are building up this backlog of games. Like many people, I think it makes the job of reaching the top six a lot harder. But equally I think the club and its owner will share my disappointment because they are working for success in a very competitive environment. I think I'm entitled to challenge them, when I think they get things wrong. I don't think I'm entitled to behave like a spoilt brat every time I suffer a disappointment. If you do think that, then following a a L1 club really isn't for you.

I've been aware for some time now just how deep-seated the problems that the club faces are, and how much money has had to be ploughed in to address them. Much of that money is coming from one source, and Mr. Sadler wouldn't be human if he didn't look at some of the behaviour from the last 24 hours and wonder why he has taken this on.

Fortunately, I didn't think social media reflects the best of us. For every group of loudmouths on Twitter, there is someone scrubbing pigeon shit off seats in the East Stand for the love of the club. We have a recent tradition, as supporters, of doing good and moral things in a just cause. And that just serves to make some of what has happened in the last day or so all the more regrettable. I think we are ALL entitled to expect better of ourselves and each other.

Thankfully, we don't have to wait long for another game. Hopefully we can leather Charlton on Saturday and put this down to experience.
 
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Goforgoal said:
The point I’m making is it can’t all be blamed on the weather. Ours was the only match called off, my son lives in Oldham and it was pouring down all day, they played. It didn’t start raining in Blackpool until about 3, postponed, it’s not just the weather. I’m not one calling for anybody’s job, just an explanation from the club, which we eventually got. I would now think that any fair minded person, including myself, is now satisfied, and is prepared to see what happens close season.
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I agree with that, but weather can be so different a half a mile away and the reaction of all the newly qualified meteorologists is just plain stupid.
 
basilrobbie said:
The thing that struck me about all this was that the groundsman ended up feeling he needed to delete his Twitter account because of the abuse he received last night. In the event, we learned from the club's CEO that there is an underlying, long-term structural problem. And that the covers designed to protect the playing surface from frost would have made no difference whatsoever.

So it seems that all that abuse was misconceived ; I wonder how many of the people responsible for it have taken to Twitter tonight to take it back or apologise? Not many, I'll bet. That's the problem with social media - it's easy to lash out with your XXX characters or less. A lot harder to take it all back.

As others have said, none of us were particularly inconvenienced last night. So all the sound and fury was pique, really. And uninformed pique at that.

I don't think the owner - or his management team - can demand a blank cheque from the support. Equally, I don't think anyone could reasonably say that they are asking for one. Criticism - justified criticism - is part of the business they are in. But this isn't just about what we expect from them, is it? If this is a partnership worth a damn then they are entitled to have some expectations of us too. And we as supporters should have some expectations of one another.

I don't think our "rights" as supporters run as far as abusing an employee of the club without good reason. I don't think they run as far as accusing the club of conniving at getting the game called off to suit their convenience either. If you are going to say that - and it has been said - then you really ought to have some proof to back it up. I don't think there is any, is there?

I'm as disappointed as anyone that we are building up this backlog of games. Like many people, I think it makes the job of reaching the top six a lot harder. But equally I think the club and its owner will share my disappointment because they are working for success in a very competitive environment. I think I'm entitled to challenge them, when I think they get things wrong. I don't think I'm entitled to behave like a spoilt brat every time I suffer a disappointment. If you do think that, then following a a L1 club really isn't for you.

I've been aware for some time now just how deep-seated the problems that the club faces are, and how much money has had to be ploughed in to address them. Much of that money is coming from one source, and Mr. Sadler wouldn't be human if he didn't look at some of the behaviour from the last 24 hours and wonder why he has taken this on.

Fortunately, I didn't think social media reflects the best of us. For every group of loudmouths on Twitter, there is someone scrubbing pigeon shit off seats in the East Stand for the love of the club. We have a recent tradition, as supporters, of doing good and moral things in a just cause. And that just serves to make some of what has happened in the last day or so all the more regrettable. I think we are ALL entitled to expect better of ourselves and each other.

Thankfully, we don't have to wait long for another game. Hopefully we can leather Charlton on Saturday and put this down to experience.
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I didn't see the stuff on Twitter, but let's be honest, it's a PR tool and they've been using it as medium to showcase how good they are. Deleting a Twitter account because, despite your best efforts, you've lost more games in a season to weather, than I can remember, is a bit childish to be honest. You've got to expect that some will take a pop - they were happy taking all the "never seen it looking so good" comments which were equally valid at the time.

It's the absolute minimum expectation of any football team, anywhere, to be able to put a squad of players out on a playable pitch.

The fact that you're aware of the problems doesn't mean the rest of the fan base are. People react how they react on the basis of what they know. Perhaps the club could do better to explain how deep the issues they are still dealing with are.

And I think lastly, my guess, having never met him, Simon Sadler knows exactly what football fans are like. One minute sending £2k to Eastbourne, or supporting the club with the Christmas appeal, the next getting understandably annoyed if we haven't won in 5 matches, or lost back to back home games because of the pitch isn't playable.

He's not going to change what he's doing because of a good or bad reaction; you don't get to his wealth by being influenced because you upset people (hedge funds aren't known for giving a shit really are they).

He will address it all in good time, but it's a slippery slope to not expect fans to react when they see the basics going awry.
 
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TSSeasider said:
I didn't see the stuff on Twitter, but let's be honest, it's a PR tool and they've been using it as medium to showcase how good they are. Deleting a Twitter account because, despite your best efforts, you've lost more games in a season to weather, than I can remember, is a bit childish to be honest. You've got to expect that some will take a pop - they were happy happy taking all the "never seen it looking so good" comments which were equally valid at the time.

It's the absolute minimum expectation of any football team, anywhere, to be able to put a squad of players out on a playable pitch.

The fact that you're aware of the problems doesn't mean the rest of the fan base are. People react how they react on the basis of what they know. Perhaps the club could do better to explain how deep the issues that are still dealing with are.

And I think lastly, my guess, having never met him, Simon Sadler knows exactly what football fans are like. One minute sending £2k to Eastbourne, or supporting the club with the Christmas appeal, the next getting understandably annoyed if we haven't won in 5 matches, or lost back to back home games because of the pitch isn't playable.

He's not going to change what he's doing because of a good or bad reaction; you don't get to his wealth by being influenced because you upset people (hedge funds aren't known for giving a shit really are they).

He will address it all in good time, but it's a slippery slope to not expect fans to react when they see the basics going awry.
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Brilliant post that is 👍
 
basilrobbie said:
The thing that struck me about all this was that the groundsman ended up feeling he needed to delete his Twitter account because of the abuse he received last night. In the event, we learned from the club's CEO that there is an underlying, long-term structural problem. And that the covers designed to protect the playing surface from frost would have made no difference whatsoever.

So it seems that all that abuse was misconceived ; I wonder how many of the people responsible for it have taken to Twitter tonight to take it back or apologise? Not many, I'll bet. That's the problem with social media - it's easy to lash out with your XXX characters or less. A lot harder to take it all back.

As others have said, none of us were particularly inconvenienced last night. So all the sound and fury was pique, really. And uninformed pique at that.

I don't think the owner - or his management team - can demand a blank cheque from the support. Equally, I don't think anyone could reasonably say that they are asking for one. Criticism - justified criticism - is part of the business they are in. But this isn't just about what we expect from them, is it? If this is a partnership worth a damn then they are entitled to have some expectations of us too. And we as supporters should have some expectations of one another.

I don't think our "rights" as supporters run as far as abusing an employee of the club without good reason. I don't think they run as far as accusing the club of conniving at getting the game called off to suit their convenience either. If you are going to say that - and it has been said - then you really ought to have some proof to back it up. I don't think there is any, is there?

I'm as disappointed as anyone that we are building up this backlog of games. Like many people, I think it makes the job of reaching the top six a lot harder. But equally I think the club and its owner will share my disappointment because they are working for success in a very competitive environment. I think I'm entitled to challenge them, when I think they get things wrong. I don't think I'm entitled to behave like a spoilt brat every time I suffer a disappointment. If you do think that, then following a a L1 club really isn't for you.

I've been aware for some time now just how deep-seated the problems that the club faces are, and how much money has had to be ploughed in to address them. Much of that money is coming from one source, and Mr. Sadler wouldn't be human if he didn't look at some of the behaviour from the last 24 hours and wonder why he has taken this on.

Fortunately, I didn't think social media reflects the best of us. For every group of loudmouths on Twitter, there is someone scrubbing pigeon shit off seats in the East Stand for the love of the club. We have a recent tradition, as supporters, of doing good and moral things in a just cause. And that just serves to make some of what has happened in the last day or so all the more regrettable. I think we are ALL entitled to expect better of ourselves and each other.

Thankfully, we don't have to wait long for another game. Hopefully we can leather Charlton on Saturday and put this down to experience.
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Did you read Twitter? The abuse he got was someone replied to a post of his saying how good the man u pitch was, and they said hope you have taken note could do with ours being the same. There was nothing more than that.

Oh and non of us want to be supporting a league one team, we aspire to higher leagues.
 
As long as he doesn't get a saw out and head towards Morty he'll do for me.
massive overreaction over the pitch.
 
I won’t say anything against Simon, he’s a fan, a local hero and he not only saved the club from possible extinction, he’s invested heavily during a pandemic, with no fans buying tickets, drink or food.

I doubt very much he expected 100% adulation, that doesn’t happen in football, but he certainly doesn’t deserve serious criticism.
 
basilrobbie said:
I've been aware for some time now just how deep-seated the problems that the club faces are, and how much money has had to be ploughed in to address them.
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Robbie, with respect, most of us have known this for many, many years. Hence the protests, which began in the 90s.
 
There could be an issue with the pitch but the main reason, and I'll repeat it for the hard of reading, is BECAUSE IT'S MUCH EASIER FOR REFEREES AND TEAMS TO POSTPONE IT WITH NO CROWD COMING IN, BUT NO, WE'D RATHER JUST HAVE A GO WITHOUT KNOWING THE FACTS, LIKE A BUNCH OF GOBSHITE KNOW IT ALLS.

Kind regards.
 
Loco said:
Robbie, with respect, most of us have known this for many, many years. Hence the protests, which began in the 90s.
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Loco

fair point. The trouble is, that nowadays there is an expectation that something will be done about it. That expectation leads to impatience, some of which is misplaced and misdirected.
 
Every other team playing and ours is called off again. That’s Tin pot in the eyes of all the other clubs.

There is no getting around that.
 
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