Seasider3610
Well-known member
“Kyiv Calling” set to the Clash “London Calling”
“Kyiv Calling” 🇺🇦
- Thread starter Seasider3610
- Start date
“Kyiv Calling” set to the Clash “London Calling”
Matesrates
Well-known member
Excellent, says it all, profits going to help Ukrainians, get it bought
Seasider3610
Well-known member
Bluecabinboy
Well-known member
Whilst this seems worthy on the surface, I saw that Billy Bragg had questioned the background of the band in question. I certainly wouldn’t wish to dissuade anyone from donating to Ukraine support efforts, however this perhaps raises concerns regarding this particular item:
A Ukrainian punk band has released an anti-war spin on The Clash's hit song "London Calling,"
Billy Bragg posted this on Facebook:
"Yesterday evening I posted a clip of the Ukranian band Beton performing their rewrite of 'London Calling'. According to reports, the song 'Kyiv Calling' was approved by the Clash, with funds raised going to the Free Ukraine Resistance Movement.
"After a few hours of discussing the lyrics of the song and whether Joe Strummer would approve of the rewrite, a number of people drew my attention to a series of photographs on the band's Facebook page showing members of the band wearing t-shirts based on the Ramones circular logo.
The word 'Ramones' at the top of the logo had been replaced with the word 'Banderas' and although all of the names within the circle were not visible, the one that was clearly read 'Stepan'. The photos dated from a year ago.
"This is deeply troubling. Stepan Bandera was a far-right Ukranian politician who collaborated with the Nazis during the occupation of Ukraine and whose followers were complicit in the Holocaust. That he did these things in the name of Ukranian independence from the Soviet Union has led some present day far right nationalists to adopt his image in their decade long struggle with Russia.
"The knock on effect of this has been to allow Putin to smear all those who want a democratic Ukraine free from Russian influence as neo-nazis. The lionisation of Bandera explains his attempt to legitimize the invasion as a campaign of 'denazification', despite the fact that when, during the 2019 Ukrainian elections, all of the major far right Ukrainian parties formed a unified party for the national election, they gained just 2.15% of the vote and failed to secure a single seat in the national parliament. Compare that with the 2009 EU parliament election, where the BNP won 6% of the vote.
"I left a message on the band's Facebook page asking them to explain why they were wearing t-shirts that appeared to support Bandera, but after 24 hours, I've had no response, so I've deleted my post.
"We can argue about the meaning of 'London Calling' and what Joe Strummer would or wouldn't have said about the lyrical changes, but we can be damn sure that he would not have allowed his song to be utilised by a band that expressed their support for fascists."
A Ukrainian punk band has released an anti-war spin on The Clash's hit song "London Calling,"
Billy Bragg posted this on Facebook:
"Yesterday evening I posted a clip of the Ukranian band Beton performing their rewrite of 'London Calling'. According to reports, the song 'Kyiv Calling' was approved by the Clash, with funds raised going to the Free Ukraine Resistance Movement.
"After a few hours of discussing the lyrics of the song and whether Joe Strummer would approve of the rewrite, a number of people drew my attention to a series of photographs on the band's Facebook page showing members of the band wearing t-shirts based on the Ramones circular logo.
The word 'Ramones' at the top of the logo had been replaced with the word 'Banderas' and although all of the names within the circle were not visible, the one that was clearly read 'Stepan'. The photos dated from a year ago.
"This is deeply troubling. Stepan Bandera was a far-right Ukranian politician who collaborated with the Nazis during the occupation of Ukraine and whose followers were complicit in the Holocaust. That he did these things in the name of Ukranian independence from the Soviet Union has led some present day far right nationalists to adopt his image in their decade long struggle with Russia.
"The knock on effect of this has been to allow Putin to smear all those who want a democratic Ukraine free from Russian influence as neo-nazis. The lionisation of Bandera explains his attempt to legitimize the invasion as a campaign of 'denazification', despite the fact that when, during the 2019 Ukrainian elections, all of the major far right Ukrainian parties formed a unified party for the national election, they gained just 2.15% of the vote and failed to secure a single seat in the national parliament. Compare that with the 2009 EU parliament election, where the BNP won 6% of the vote.
"I left a message on the band's Facebook page asking them to explain why they were wearing t-shirts that appeared to support Bandera, but after 24 hours, I've had no response, so I've deleted my post.
"We can argue about the meaning of 'London Calling' and what Joe Strummer would or wouldn't have said about the lyrical changes, but we can be damn sure that he would not have allowed his song to be utilised by a band that expressed their support for fascists."
BWseasider
Well-known member
Not as straight forward as described:
"This is deeply troubling. Stepan Bandera was a far-right Ukranian politician who collaborated with the Nazis during the occupation of Ukraine and whose followers were complicit in the Holocaust. That he did these things in the name of Ukranian independence from the Soviet Union has led some present day far right nationalists to adopt his image in their decade long struggle with Russia."
As far as I know he basically sided up to the Nazi's in the hope they would recognise Ukraine as independent as they drove the Soviets out. They didn't, and he was quickly arrested and interred into a concentration camp within a few months. Bit hard to see how he could have been orchestrating the Holocaust when he was in Nazi custody from 1941-44, upon release he worked against both the Soviets and the Nazis. His movement recruited and even created fake documents to help Jews, though this was largely driven out of self interest.
Second issue is this:
"That he did these things in the name of Ukranian independence from the Soviet Union has led some present day far right nationalists to adopt his image in their decade long struggle with Russia....during the 2019 Ukrainian elections, all of the major far right Ukrainian parties formed a unified party for the national election, they gained just 2.15% of the vote and failed to secure a single seat in the national parliament"
He's seen by some Ukrainians as a Ukrainian nationalist/freedom fighter first and therefore I don't think anyone who actually supports or idolizes him there are actually nazi's or nazi sympathisers, despite the fact he was quite happy to work with them, if it meant securing Ukrainian indepdendence. Ukrainians seem split down the middle on him. 30% supporting, 30% negative and 30% see him as a grey area. Given the 30% support, and as the post says, only 2.15% of the vote in recent elections going to far right parties, it's clear that he's not just a figure for "far right nationalists" as the post suggests.
I don't really know what point I'm trying to make here, other than it's not as simple as many on social media make out, and they are often trying to understand this guy from a western perspective, rather than a Ukranian one, and the fact they're ready to simply dismiss this guy as a nazi without understanding the wider context, somewhat shows the effectiveness of how the Kremlin is trying to portray him.
"This is deeply troubling. Stepan Bandera was a far-right Ukranian politician who collaborated with the Nazis during the occupation of Ukraine and whose followers were complicit in the Holocaust. That he did these things in the name of Ukranian independence from the Soviet Union has led some present day far right nationalists to adopt his image in their decade long struggle with Russia."
As far as I know he basically sided up to the Nazi's in the hope they would recognise Ukraine as independent as they drove the Soviets out. They didn't, and he was quickly arrested and interred into a concentration camp within a few months. Bit hard to see how he could have been orchestrating the Holocaust when he was in Nazi custody from 1941-44, upon release he worked against both the Soviets and the Nazis. His movement recruited and even created fake documents to help Jews, though this was largely driven out of self interest.
Second issue is this:
"That he did these things in the name of Ukranian independence from the Soviet Union has led some present day far right nationalists to adopt his image in their decade long struggle with Russia....during the 2019 Ukrainian elections, all of the major far right Ukrainian parties formed a unified party for the national election, they gained just 2.15% of the vote and failed to secure a single seat in the national parliament"
He's seen by some Ukrainians as a Ukrainian nationalist/freedom fighter first and therefore I don't think anyone who actually supports or idolizes him there are actually nazi's or nazi sympathisers, despite the fact he was quite happy to work with them, if it meant securing Ukrainian indepdendence. Ukrainians seem split down the middle on him. 30% supporting, 30% negative and 30% see him as a grey area. Given the 30% support, and as the post says, only 2.15% of the vote in recent elections going to far right parties, it's clear that he's not just a figure for "far right nationalists" as the post suggests.
I don't really know what point I'm trying to make here, other than it's not as simple as many on social media make out, and they are often trying to understand this guy from a western perspective, rather than a Ukranian one, and the fact they're ready to simply dismiss this guy as a nazi without understanding the wider context, somewhat shows the effectiveness of how the Kremlin is trying to portray him.
Last edited:
Matesrates
Well-known member
No, can’t quite decide whether it’s ok or not
ElBurroSinNombre
Well-known member
It's really difficult to know.
The Russians know how to fight sophisticated social media campaigns, is the photo genuine for instance? It looks like it but is it actually the band?
Has Billy Bragg been nobbled by the Russians or was he a Russian agent all along?
Because all this development has done is to remind us that there were some Nazi sympathisers in Ukraine
The Russians know how to fight sophisticated social media campaigns, is the photo genuine for instance? It looks like it but is it actually the band?
Has Billy Bragg been nobbled by the Russians or was he a Russian agent all along?
Because all this development has done is to remind us that there were some Nazi sympathisers in Ukraine
BWseasider
Well-known member
Yeah I kept posting by accident before I finished my post! I've edited it now to help explain. I don't really want to be defending the guys legacy or character, because he was definitely a bad guy to a lot of people ,but at the same time I can see why some in Ukraine see him as a freedom fighter, and I think it's catagorically wrong to think that those people are all far-right or nazi's because of that (though that's what Putin would want you to think).
Matesrates
Well-known member
Nazi sympathisers all over Eastern Europe, but the vast majority are just ordinary people getting on with their lives and don’t deserve being bombed.
ElBurroSinNombre
Well-known member
Of course they don't deserve to have their country invaded, I was not suggesting that. But this is a small propaganda victory for the Kremlin.
BWseasider
Well-known member
What I find interesting is Billy Bragg seems smart enough to know the modus-operandi of the Kremlin, and that they are keen to exploit Bandera's history to push the Ukrainians are nazi's narative, but doesn't seem smart enough to realise that he's basically already fallen foul of it, as he already believes/pushes the same lines the Kremlin would use, without provided wider context.
Seasider3610
Well-known member
The band seem to know the significance of checking with the Clash before releasing the track.
If they had anything to hide they would have changed their Facebook pictures and details I would think ….
Billy 🗣
If they had anything to hide they would have changed their Facebook pictures and details I would think ….
Billy 🗣