3rd Test Eng v NZ

Clearly they all were hugely talented in their different ways. Hobbs picked in the world team of the 20th century. Hammond a classical batsman ,the greatest English player of the thirties averaged over 58 way ahead of Root but obviously totally irrelevant to some.
Never said they weren’t. But I don’t think the game has ever been as pressured as it is now. All the factors around it.

None of them will have the ability and ease on the eye as Joe Root. Or playing in as professional an era. It doesn’t detract from their stats. But none of them will have been at Joe Roots level. Best in the world currently and best English batsman ever.
 
Never said they weren’t. But I don’t think the game has ever been as pressured as it is now. All the factors around it.

None of them will have the ability and ease on the eye as Joe Root. Or playing in as professional an era. It doesn’t detract from their stats. But none of them will have been at Joe Roots level. Best in the world currently and best English batsman ever.
Not sure that we can make valid comparisons, particularly as none of us have ever seen the historical players actually hit a ball. It's like comparing the smoking, boozing chubster footballers of the 70s with the thoroughbred athletes of today, there really is no valid comparison to be made. Today's players are in all likelihood way, way better because every aspect of their game is taken care of in a professional manner, technique, psychology, fitness, diet etc. There is also a far bigger pool to select from (because the population of the world is so much bigger now) so statistically the bar should have been raised even if every other factor remained constant.
 
Those batsmen of old played on more difficult pitches however to balance that, the bowlers were not as fit not highly trained as those of today.

Of our post uncovered pitches, few batsmen have the all round skills of Root - maybe Pietersen?
Cook was an amazing run compiler and a quality opener but without the same range of shots.
Botham was a slugger but again not the same quality of batsman as Root.

Nice debate!
 
Not sure that we can make valid comparisons, particularly as none of us have ever seen the historical players actually hit a ball. It's like comparing the smoking, boozing chubster footballers of the 70s with the thoroughbred athletes of today, there really is no valid comparison to be made. Today's players are in all likelihood way, way better because every aspect of their game is taken care of in a professional manner, technique, psychology, fitness, diet etc. There is also a far bigger pool to select from (because the population of the world is so much bigger now) so statistically the bar should have been raised even if every other factor remained constant.
I don't think it can be compared but I think it can be a fair point to make that Joe Root is one of our most talented batsmen of all time. I don't think I need to see players from the 60s/70s or 80s to know he's technically better than almost all of them.

This doesn't detract away from some of the greats that there have been, I just can't see how any of them would be better based on the new formats of the game. The ability to play the way he is, with the shots he takes. No one in my life time in an England shirt has been able to do it in all three formats, in any condition.
 
Another thing to throw in the mix is the gear they used now and then. Helmets and extensive body padding, custom bats etc. Though of course on the other side the bowlers also now have better boots etc. One thing is for certain, Joe Root is a sporting phenomenon. Imagine if he could catch as well?!
 
I’m with 50’s here. Averages give you the best measurement of a player’s ability, whether batting or bowling. They’re not 100% perfect but it’s as good a guide as you’ll get.
 
Sir Garfield is the greatest cricketer I have seen in my lifetime. He could genuinely do it all.
Mind you he was not as good in the covers as Sir Clive one of Lancashire's finest.
 
Those batsmen of old played on more difficult pitches however to balance that, the bowlers were not as fit not highly trained as those of today.

Of our post uncovered pitches, few batsmen have the all round skills of Root - maybe Pietersen?
Cook was an amazing run compiler and a quality opener but without the same range of shots.
Botham was a slugger but again not the same quality of batsman as Root.

Nice debate!
Would Botham have got in the team on just his bowling or batting?
 
Back on the cricket, I've been trying to get an update on the BBC cricket site and everything redirects to the womens' test v/s the Saffers. Not a single line of update on when play starts etc v/s NZ. I'm right up for promoting womens' sport and I'm not missing Aggers wittering on about the good old days but this is ridiculous.
 
Back on the cricket, I've been trying to get an update on the BBC cricket site and everything redirects to the womens' test v/s the Saffers. Not a single line of update on when play starts etc v/s NZ. I'm right up for promoting womens' sport and I'm not missing Aggers wittering on about the good old days but this is ridiculous.
I'm two miles from the ground. Its still raining and no obvious sign of it stopping.
 
I’m guessing his bowling would have got him in. He could genuinely swing it (from what I remember as a kid)
I’m the current set up you’d probably see him as a number 7 or am I be in harsh?
In the current England Team he would have had a chance of opening.
 
I’m guessing his bowling would have got him in. He could genuinely swing it (from what I remember as a kid)
I’m the current set up you’d probably see him as a number 7 or am I be in harsh?
I'm being unkind really because I don't like him, doubt he'd get in on his batting alone but he would as a bowler, especially if it was swinging.
 
Absolutely fantastic, and superb entertainment.

Why can't the England football team play like this? I can't remember the last time I was inspired by Southgate's tactics. Ok he reached the World Cup Semi Final and Euro Final, but he bored us to death. I wouldn't walk to the bottom of the road to watch Southgates teams, but the cricket over the last 3 tests -wow.
 
Bazball showing the way. It feels like they've re-invented test cricket. When did we last win three on the trot against anyone? Of couse it's been a surprise here but teams will be increasingly ready for us. Going to be really interesting and I can't wait to get to Brum on Friday for my day at the test.
 
Very clear to show BM and BS have put their mark on this team.

Let's see how they get on against the Indians next week.
 
The transformation of more or less the same players from the test series in the West Indies is completely remarkable.

We've only chased 275 or more 14 times in test history and 3 of them have been in this series. Quite astonishing.

Goes to show how big a part the mental side of the game is, because this is more or less the same team but with a completely different mindset.
 
Only negative this series really has been Crawley. Hopefully that’s the last we see of him in an England shirt.
 
Truly amazing series. No-one expected the result and certainly not the means by which it was achieved. It’s made me want to watch test match cricket again.
 
Making my England Test match debut in the Old Trafford game against South Africa in August. Got tickets for sunday the fourth day..
I think my SA debut was when SA had total control and Kirsten was going at 1 an over when SA should have pushed on. OT emptied significantly as it was boring and we went to the pub to watch Spain v France WCQF to return after.

Last day Englands last wicket pship held on. Can't believe it was so obvious at the time that SA should have pushed on.
 
Root is world class .... thought he does need a ton in Australia / a really good Ashes down under to cement such greatness!
 
Absolutely amazing what a change of management can make when you throw in some positivity to a team that only managed a paltry one win in 17 Tests, (Southgate take note!), Jonny Bairstow's form has been nothing short of astonishing, the only worry right now for me is the form of Zak Crawley, but we do have a couple of promising candidates to replace him waiting in the wings with Harry Brook probably the next cab off the rank. The other issue is we do have quite a long tail with not much batting from seven onwards, but for an Englishman what an absolute pleasure it is to see this new positivity running through the team after being in the doldrums for some time, India up next and we could put both the top two rated Test sides to the sword in the same summer which is some achievement considering where we were before appointing McCullum and Stokes to lead the side.
 
Absolutely amazing what a change of management can make when you throw in some positivity to a team that only managed a paltry one win in 17 Tests, (Southgate take note!), Jonny Bairstow's form has been nothing short of astonishing, the only worry right now for me is the form of Zak Crawley, but we do have a couple of promising candidates to replace him waiting in the wings with Harry Brook probably the next cab off the rank. The other issue is we do have quite a long tail with not much batting from seven onwards, but for an Englishman what an absolute pleasure it is to see this new positivity running through the team after being in the doldrums for some time, India up next and we could put both the top two rated Test sides to the sword in the same summer which is some achievement considering where we were before appointing McCullum and Stokes to lead the side.
It's easy to get carried away, but in context NZ were very poor and had it not been for the 2 in the middle order the games would have been over in 3 days.

Hopefully India will make it tougher, but I'm expecting an Eng win, weather permitting. It would be good however to see Eng really up against it to see how the new approach copes.

Probably not been mentioned but the style of Stokes owes a lot to Eoin Morgan as much to BmcC.
 
I'm not getting carried away as such, I'm just delighted we've finally shown some fight and agression after years of being piss poor, lets not forget NZ are the World Test champions and when an opponent appears 'very poor" as you put it, you should not take anything away from our own performance and the fact we played very well and contributed to their defeat with some outstanding performances from a number of the guys.
 
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