Andrew, A Prince no more

This is huge damage control from the Royal family. There must be something MASSIVE coming.

Will we see an arrest, trial and time in the old Tower of London coming???
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
They are all parasites
They aren’t better than anyone else
They have known about Andrew’s activities for donkeys years and covered it up
Time to go
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Especially since Elizabeth died, presumably Charles would have been briefed both by the Palace and Government
 
The teddies have already legged it! Mad scramble for the door apparently, following the announcement. Last seen heading for Bagshot Park…
 
"Beep, beep, beep..... caution.... Royal Family closing ranks and reversing..... caution..... Royal Family reversing"....🤫 !!
 
Limechase said:
He still gets a free house in Norfolk, doubt it's a two up two down, and I bet he will still have "staff". Hardly slumming it
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it is hardly slumming it you're right but there does have to be some sort of privacy and security for him where he can disappear from public life. And Sandringham, a private estate, is probably the best place for him to do that. The alternative, he has a house somewhere where it's a cast iron certainty that the press and all sorts of other onlookers would congregate. This way, it's a chance for him to disappear without ever being heard of again.
 
You have to wonder if this is all a bit of PR exercise because they know a proper shitstorm is coming - i.e. potential criminal investigations etc.

'Alleged Royal child sex offender' sounds worse than 'sacked Royal alleged child sex offender' - it's media damage management for what comes next. Maybe.

It's mental how long this kind of stuff rumbles on for - it's not just Andrew is it? It's multiple 'celebrities' (in the broad sense of 'people you've heard of') and a whole load of 'are they involved, yes/no/maybe' titillation in the press.

Why we're not capable of a society of establishing whether rich people went and did dodgy as fuck shit when the evidence seems to actually be there (i.e. there's apparently a detailed dossier, they have Maxwell in prison to question at any point, multiple accounts from girls who were trafficked and they presumably amassed a great deal of evidence in order to prosecute Epstein) is quite terrifying.

Apart the obvious from 'self interested powerful people don't want their names dirtied' reason, it's actually quite astonishing that so little seems to be actually clear cut about any of this.
 
The interesting dynamic change for me is that I suspect the US authorities might find it far easier to go after him now if so minded

As Andrew Lownie has been saying for some time the end game will hopefully see Randy doing time
 
Will he still show his face at the Xmas day gathering? Imagine been sat next to him at the Royal Christmas table.
He’s gone from the Queens favourite to outcast, bet Charlie is loving his fall.
 
He has questions to answer - perhaps now he can be extradited to the US.
If he cares about the victims of this abuse at all (doubtful), he needs to honestly tell the authorities what he knows about Epstein's operation.
This could develop into a constitutional crisis - how much of this has been covered up by the Royal family and the state?
 
td53 said:
You have to wonder if this is all a bit of PR exercise because they know a proper shitstorm is coming - i.e. potential criminal investigations etc.

'Alleged Royal child sex offender' sounds worse than 'sacked Royal alleged child sex offender' - it's media damage management for what comes next. Maybe.

It's mental how long this kind of stuff rumbles on for - it's not just Andrew is it? It's multiple 'celebrities' (in the broad sense of 'people you've heard of') and a whole load of 'are they involved, yes/no/maybe' titillation in the press.

Why we're not capable of a society of establishing whether rich people went and did dodgy as fuck shit when the evidence seems to actually be there (i.e. there's apparently a detailed dossier, they have Maxwell in prison to question at any point, multiple accounts from girls who were trafficked and they presumably amassed a great deal of evidence in order to prosecute Epstein) is quite terrifying.

Apart the obvious from 'self interested powerful people don't want their names dirtied' reason, it's actually quite astonishing that so little seems to be actually clear cut about any of this.
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The power to release the material lies with one man, who, before the election was all for transparency.

Now he has the levers of power, he's not so keen. Anyone would think he was personally implicated...
 
I think we've also got to consider that the public attitude towards this has massively shifted over the last few years.

#Metoo probably was the turning point; powerful men abusing their position has been going on forever - probably still is. The difference is, it's harder to hide it and it's not acceptable.

You think Bill Clinton would have got away with what he got away with now? I doubt it very much.

Andrew took a advantage of his position of birth; his fall will cut very, very deep.

He's still filth and I'd have loved him to be sent abroad to live out his life; not going to happen sadly.

Meanwhile, while the King acts, we still can't get a public enquiry into powerful people avoiding the industrial abuse of white girls in this country over the same period because it was inconvenient to cultural relations.
 
Lost Seasider said:
To be clear, has he been convicted of anything? Has he admitted anything?

If he has, it must've passed me by.
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No but lets be right that's only because he has been protected from the civil suit by someone putting up the £12m to settle that claim just before his deposition where he'd have been questioned for seven hours by David Boies (one of the most formidable lawyers there is) and from interview by the US authorities up to now

And its also time to open up the files re his time as UK envoy
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
No but lets be right that's only because he has been protected from the civil suit by someone putting up the £12m to settle that claim just before his deposition where he'd have been questioned for seven hours by David Boies (one of the most formidable lawyers there is) and from interview by the US authorities up to now

And its also time to open up the files re his time as UK envoy
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We need to know to what extent the state has colluded and covered up what appears at the very least to be dubious behaviour and potentially illegal behaviour by Andrew. If it turns out that, for instance, tax payers money has funded the procurement of prostitutes the money spent should be reclaimed from the crown. In fact we should seek compensation from the royal estate for the public money spent in keeping this odious man in a life of luxury while he has dragged the reputation of our country into the sewer.

Completely agree it's time to open the books and put them in the public domain.
We will never be a modern country while we hold to this culture of deference and exceptionalism for the royal family.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
No but lets be right that's only because he has been protected from the civil suit by someone putting up the £12m to settle that claim just before his deposition where he'd have been questioned for seven hours by David Boies (one of the most formidable lawyers there is) and from interview by the US authorities up to now

And its also time to open up the files re his time as UK envoy
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That £12m figure is pure speculation, and, IMO, likely an order of magnitude more than the real settlement, and she only got that because the Queen wanted it out of the way in time for the jubilee.

Also, on the subject of depositions, VG herself ducked out of one, and it's seems unlikely, to me, that PA would've agreed to be deposed before her.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
We need to know to what extent the state has colluded and covered up what appears at the very least to be dubious behaviour and potentially illegal behaviour by Andrew. If it turns out that, for instance, tax payers money has funded the procurement of prostitutes the money spent should be reclaimed from the crown. In fact we should seek compensation from the royal estate for the public money spent in keeping this odious man in a life of luxury while he has dragged the reputation of our country into the sewer.

Completely agree it's time to open the books and put them in the public domain.
We will never be a modern country while we hold to this culture of deference and exceptionalism for the royal family.
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The Royal Family are certainly running scared. Not just on further revelations and potential action on Andrew, but that both Parliament and the public want much more scrutiny of the their business, including the archaic and obscene sources of income and wealth that is totally unjustified. Rental from using the coastal seabed is just one example. A proper implementation of inheritance and other taxes would soon sort them out, with a ban on offshore and other holdings
 
Surely her parents must have been aware that their 17 year old daughter was jet setting off with older guys,
Would you just let your young daughter fly out half way across the World with male strangers.
Maybe I am missing something in this.
 
TSSeasider said:
I think we've also got to consider that the public attitude towards this has massively shifted over the last few years.

#Metoo probably was the turning point; powerful men abusing their position has been going on forever - probably still is. The difference is, it's harder to hide it and it's not acceptable.

You think Bill Clinton would have got away with what he got away with now? I doubt it very much.

Andrew took a advantage of his position of birth; his fall will cut very, very deep.

He's still filth and I'd have loved him to be sent abroad to live out his life; not going to happen sadly.

Meanwhile, while the King acts, we still can't get a public enquiry into powerful people avoiding the industrial abuse of white girls in this country over the same period because it was inconvenient to cultural relations.
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Other than the public enquiries ongoing?
 
Lost Seasider said:
That £12m figure is pure speculation, and, IMO, likely an order of magnitude more than the real settlement, and she only got that because the Queen wanted it out of the way in time for the jubilee.

Also, on the subject of depositions, VG herself ducked out of one, and it's seems unlikely, to me, that PA would've agreed to be deposed before her.
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Keep digging.
£12 million has been widely reported in about 10 different outlets. 1.2 million has been mentioned where? Even if it was £1.2 million as you speculate what real difference does that make? The crown has still given a shit ton of money to somebody that Andrew says he never met - nice work if you can get it.
 
Lost Seasider said:
That £12m figure is pure speculation, and, IMO, likely an order of magnitude more than the real settlement, and she only got that because the Queen wanted it out of the way in time for the jubilee.

Also, on the subject of depositions, VG herself ducked out of one, and it's seems unlikely, to me, that PA would've agreed to be deposed before her.
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Giuffre has been deposed though as long ago as 2016 in the claim she brought v Maxwell
I don't confess to know if you can defer a deposition in the manner you suggest
And as I understand it (and these were Boises words) Randy was just about to be deposed for seven hrs when the settlement was concluded
 
Wizaard said:
Other than the public enquiries ongoing?
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The national one which has just seen the victims walk out.

I think doing local ones potentially dilutes the scale of what went on.

I know in Teesside on the early 2000's an incredible woman called Wendy Shepherd was working for Barnadoes.

She was so concerned with what was going on she established a Sexual Exploitation of Children on the Streets campaign to highlight it.

How many people persecuted? Zero.

Now it's with incompetent, or deliberate.

IF that's a pattern, it is to a wider conspiracy of behaviour, rather than local decision makers being cowards.

We will only get to that picture IF the government sort it.

And, before I get accused of blaming Labour; absolutely not. The Tories and Lib Dems had 14 years to do something and they didn't. They didn't because generally the girls being abused were our most vulnerable and they didn't care either. In fact, somewhere in there in pretty sure austerity would have had an impact on the desire to do something.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Giuffre has been deposed though as long ago as 2016 in the claim she brought v Maxwell
I don't confess to know if you can defer a deposition in the manner you suggest
And as I understand it (and these were Boises words) Randy was just about to be deposed for seven hrs when the settlement was concluded
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I'm inclined to believe PA for a simple reason, he could've got rid of the whole thing by simply saying "yes, we did, I was not aware of the arrangement between VG and JE and was under the impression that it was purely voluntary on her part", at which point, what exactly is her claim against PA?
 
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bfcpete said:
The Royal Family are certainly running scared. Not just on further revelations and potential action on Andrew, but that both Parliament and the public want much more scrutiny of the their business, including the archaic and obscene sources of income and wealth that is totally unjustified. Rental from using the coastal seabed is just one example. A proper implementation of inheritance and other taxes would soon sort them out, with a ban on offshore and other holdings
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I'm not sure they do.

They don't want a Prince who invited Epstein, Maxwell and that Hollywood lech to his daughters party in our Royal palaces.

That photo was the killer for me.
 
TSSeasider said:
I think doing local ones potentially dilutes the scale of what went on.
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That, plus it also prevents them looking at the conduct of central government, including certain current ministers and a former DPP in particular.

TSSeasider said:
The Tories and Lib Dems had 14 years to do something and they didn't. They didn't because generally the girls being abused were our most vulnerable and they didn't care either. In fact, somewhere in there in pretty sure austerity would have had an impact on the desire to do something.
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I think, in part, that may have been down to the fact that prosecutions were ongoing until very recently, and the kind of national inquiry they're now asking for would likely have fatally prejudiced those prosecutions.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
The interesting dynamic change for me is that I suspect the US authorities might find it far easier to go after him now if so minded

As Andrew Lownie has been saying for some time the end game will hopefully see Randy doing time
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yes is that the key point? Was his crime of having sex with a minor committed in the USA. 17 is illegal there but over here would not be.
 
20togo said:
sorry probably had read that before but forgotten. Was the alleged offence in NY?
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She claimed 3 times, London, NY and USVI.

The only possible criminal offence would be USVI, but there's a suggestion that she was 18 at the time anyway.

Edit:
All assuming that he was not aware that she was "trafficked".
 
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