Andrew, A Prince no more

Interesting read this, how some are hoping that the ramifications of all this will somehow bring on the fall of the Royal family.
May I ask this question?
If your father, brother, uncle, cousin was convicted of the same accusations as A. Mountbatten Windsor would it be just for the rest of your family to be judged in the same way?
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
We need to know to what extent the state has colluded and covered up what appears at the very least to be dubious behaviour and potentially illegal behaviour by Andrew. If it turns out that, for instance, tax payers money has funded the procurement of prostitutes the money spent should be reclaimed from the crown. In fact we should seek compensation from the royal estate for the public money spent in keeping this odious man in a life of luxury while he has dragged the reputation of our country into the sewer.

Completely agree it's time to open the books and put them in the public domain.
We will never be a modern country while we hold to this culture of deference and exceptionalism for the royal family.
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One things for sure it is impossible that others didn’t know what was going on. He had bodyguards following him everywhere. Were they being paid to keep quiet? And given the power and wealth within the family there’s not a cat in hells chance they would have handed over a penny, let alone £12m to Virginia Giuffre if there was no truth to her claims.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
We need to know to what extent the state has colluded and covered up what appears at the very least to be dubious behaviour and potentially illegal behaviour by Andrew. If it turns out that, for instance, tax payers money has funded the procurement of prostitutes the money spent should be reclaimed from the crown. In fact we should seek compensation from the royal estate for the public money spent in keeping this odious man in a life of luxury while he has dragged the reputation of our country into the sewer.

Completely agree it's time to open the books and put them in the public domain.
We will never be a modern country while we hold to this culture of deference and exceptionalism for the royal family.
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That last paragraph sums up my opinion exactly, the UK will never modernise whilst it holds on to 12 century ideas of royalty, titles and the institutions that enable than.
 
Wizzerboy said:
Interesting read this, how some are hoping that the ramifications of all this will somehow bring on the fall of the Royal family.
May I ask this question?
If your father, brother, uncle, cousin was convicted of the same accusations as A. Mountbatten Windsor would it be just for the rest of your family to be judged in the same way?
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Most of us don't grow up with the level of privilege that the royal family have nor are supposedly held as officially superior to the rest of us plebs according to divine birthright (when of course there is no god to deliver divine birthright). The rest of the family aren't being judged because AMW is allegedly a nonce but because royalty and divinely handed titles have no place in the 21st century.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
Most of us don't grow up with the level of privilege that the royal family have nor are supposedly held as officially superior to the rest of us plebs according to divine birthright (when of course there is no god to deliver divine birthright). The rest of the family aren't being judged because AMW is allegedly a nonce but because royalty and divinely handed titles have no place in the 21st century.
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In your opinion
 
Lost Seasider said:
I'm inclined to believe PA for a simple reason, he could've got rid of the whole thing by simply saying "yes, we did, I was not aware of the arrangement between VG and JE and was under the impression that it was purely voluntary on her part", at which point, what exactly is her claim against PA?
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Think you’ll be in a minority there Lost
 
Wizzerboy said:
Interesting read this, how some are hoping that the ramifications of all this will somehow bring on the fall of the Royal family.
May I ask this question?
If your father, brother, uncle, cousin was convicted of the same accusations as A. Mountbatten Windsor would it be just for the rest of your family to be judged in the same way?
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Well I suppose it would depend eg if my family had known what was going on for years and either tried to cover up what went on and /or funded what the scumbag was doing
 
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TwelveAngryMen said:
Well I suppose it would depend eg if my family had known what was going on your years and either tried to cover up what went on and /or funded what the scumbag was doing
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I suppose it also depended on whether the two people were consenting adults and if one of them was paid to keep their mouths shut.
I'm definitely not saying AMW is as pure as snow in all of this but the woman took money, if she was that repulsed by the whole thing she should have reported it there and then.
Personally I don't give a toss what happens to AMW he played with fire and got his fingers well and truly burned but I find it hard when her family appear on TV and try and make out she's an angel.
 
Wizzerboy said:
I suppose it also depended on whether the two people were consenting adults and if one of them was paid to keep their mouths shut.
I'm definitely not saying AMW is as pure as snow in all of this but the woman took money, if she was that repulsed by the whole thing she should have reported it there and then.
Personally I don't give a toss what happens to AMW he played with fire and got his fingers well and truly burned but I find it hard when her family appear on TV and try and make out she's an angel.
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yep understand your point, don't think she was an angel at all, But just to point out she was classed as a minor on at least one of the occasions, wasn't she? But It's ok for everyone to say the monarchy must have known what was going on but do we seriously think she kept her mouth shut and didn't tell any one about her jet setting around the world with the people she was with. Certainly makes you ask questions about her family. So no i don't buy into a lot of this from her family. But at the end of the day she has took her own life and that is down to Andres and his two other cohorts.

However, it's about time he was called to account and the sooner the story disappears and that everything that needs to come out has come out and he suffers the consequences then we can forget about him and we never hear his name again. An absolute wanker. There again, the longer it continues the more he squirms.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Well I suppose it would depend eg if my family had known what was going on for years and either tried to cover up what went on and /or funded what the scumbag was doing
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Spot on, if a member of my family had paid the victim off I'd disown the bloody lot of them.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I'm inclined to believe PA for a simple reason, he could've got rid of the whole thing by simply saying "yes, we did, I was not aware of the arrangement between VG and JE and was under the impression that it was purely voluntary on her part", at which point, what exactly is her claim against PA?
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And Epstein would respond by releasing a whole load of dirt about Andrew who was, along with his ex wife, so clearly trying his damnedest to keep him sweet. Epstein didn’t get to wield so much power by being a nice man.
 
traffordtang said:
And Epstein would respond by releasing a whole load of dirt about Andrew who was, along with his ex wife, so clearly trying his damnedest to keep him sweet. Epstein didn’t get to wield so much power by being a nice man.
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What makes you think JE had "dirt" on him, in fact the whole VG affair could be seen as an attempt by JE to obtain such "dirt" to be exploited at a future date.

Edit:
And of course JE was dead by that point, so he wouldn't have been in a position to release "dirt" anyway.
 
Wizzerboy said:
That royalty has no place in the 21st century
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Not really opinion. If there's no god to deliver divine birthright, and I think we can say that the god that justified the British royal family doesn't exist, their tenure as royals is at best a fabrication. Even if you look at the royals as a British tradition they are so far removed from normal life that they have no relevance beyond B list celebrity status and fodder for the celebrity magazines.

Can you make a case for their continued existence
 
Costero Poderoso said:
Not really opinion. If there's no god to deliver divine birthright, and I think we can say that the god that justified the British royal family doesn't exist, their tenure as royals is at best a fabrication. Even if you look at the royals as a British tradition they are so far removed from normal life that they have no relevance beyond B list celebrity status and fodder for the celebrity magazines.

Can you make a case for their continued existence
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yep, because it pisses off the republicans.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Can you point to any nation on earth that has adopted such a model?
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The US has a head of state who is also the head of the executive. Switzerland doesn't have an official head of state at all.

Just because something hasn't been done doesn't mean it can't be. It's not as though the wolds current political and governance systems are functioning particularly well.
 
Lost Seasider said:
What makes you think JE had "dirt" on him, in fact the whole VG affair could be seen as an attempt by JE to obtain such "dirt" to be exploited at a future date.

Edit:
And of course JE was dead by that point, so he wouldn't have been in a position to release "dirt" anyway.
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I don’t think he was dead when Andy was telling him they’d play again soon, or when Fergie was sending him grovelling apologies for having bad mouthed him and implying he was a paedophile.
 
If there is more to come on this whole sorry tale, then what about another key character? The one fawned on during a recent visit by HMG and the Royal Family.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
No but lets be right that's only because he has been protected from the civil suit by someone putting up the £12m to settle that claim just before his deposition where he'd have been questioned for seven hours by David Boies (one of the most formidable lawyers there is) and from interview by the US authorities up to now

And its also time to open up the files re his time as UK envoywe
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Hertsseasider said:
If there is more to come on this whole sorry tale, then what about another key character? The one fawned on during a recent visit by HMG and the Royal Family.
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I think they’re using Andy as a distraction and it’s working. I just hope they’re not using the time to remove anything they don’t like.
 
Matesrates said:
Hardly punishment is it, sent to live in a free, luxury home for life, with more money than most of us can only dream of.
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In a way it is. He lived the lifestyle of abuse and arrogance and for him that will be hard to give up. He's a pariah now and everytime now he puts his head above the parapet people will be watching him intensely. In many ways his life is over.
 
The life he knew as “Prince Andrew, Duke of York” has been effectively over for at least 6 years since Maitlis, and his trustworthiness suspected since at least 2011 when he was relieved of Govt duties as Trade Envoy (subsidised holiday maker and side dealer).

I think he has got used to it all by now, hence his resigned acceptance. As long as there is a golf course nearby and internet access to dodgy sites at Sandringham he will cope.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
He has questions to answer - perhaps now he can be extradited to the US.
If he cares about the victims of this abuse at all (doubtful), he needs to honestly tell the authorities what he knows about Epstein's operation.
This could develop into a constitutional crisis - how much of this has been covered up by the Royal family and the state?
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I wouldn't extradite him as the yanks wouldn't extradite that official who ran a motorcyclist down over here when driving on wrong side of the road. Or is it one rule for them and another for the Brits.
 
Andrew had the opportunity years ago to be interviewed by the US authorities, but he ran away to Balmoral and wouldn't come out. He would be advised by his legal reps either not to do it or only do so if he was given immunity from prosecution if he incriminated himself. The other problem is that he is a proven liar, so people would not believe half of what he said.
Unfortunately, too many people and organisations have either protected him or turned a blind eye to his actions and behaviour. It needs the public, media and MPs to keep the pressure on to release information and give evidence.
 
bfcpete said:
Andrew had the opportunity years ago to be interviewed by the US authorities, but he ran away to Balmoral and wouldn't come out. He would be advised by his legal reps either not to do it or only do so if he was given immunity from prosecution if he incriminated himself. The other problem is that he is a proven liar, so people would not believe half of what he said.
Unfortunately, too many people and organisations have either protected him or turned a blind eye to his actions and behaviour. It needs the public, media and MPs to keep the pressure on to release information and give evidence.
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Presumably the people and orgnaisations include the Royal Family?

Until they’ve belatedly decided they need to protect The Firm.
 
bfcpete said:
Andrew had the opportunity years ago to be interviewed by the US authorities, but he ran away to Balmoral and wouldn't come out. He would be advised by his legal reps either not to do it or only do so if he was given immunity from prosecution if he incriminated himself. The other problem is that he is a proven liar, so people would not believe half of what he said.
Unfortunately, too many people and organisations have either protected him or turned a blind eye to his actions and behaviour. It needs the public, media and MPs to keep the pressure on to release information and give evidence.
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His interview with Maitlis was a bloody car crash not sure what good he expected to come from it as I reckon this was the moment he signed his own death warrant as 90% of the public said it was a PR blunder.
It just shows that money can’t buy class.
You will be wasting your time for MPs and media to keep pressure on as they are all part of the same gravy train. Only the public can push for more info
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Presumably the people and orgnaisations include the Royal Family?

Until they’ve belatedly decided they need to protect The Firm.
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The Royal Family / Palace? - absolutely.
And they have always tried to protect The Firm. Now that it is unravelling from other sources they are attempting damage limitation to the future of the monarchy. They are running scared of this being the catalyst for the public and the press wanting to delve into other of their activities, finances and businesses.
 
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