Another Englishman scores for Scotland

Don't see the issue happens in all sport know one gives a hoot with Jofra Archer playing for England Cricket and he's lived here two minutes.
Che's Grandmother is Scottish and let's be honest this has been happening for years.
 
Tony Cascarino played 88 times for Ireland, scoring a fair few goals , all on the basis that his grandfather was Irish . It turned out that his grandfather was not actually blood related . This became known internally after he had played 3 games but was kept secret. He had already had an application for an Irish passport rejected . It was thought for a while that all the games might be null and void including world cups , but this never happened .
 
Before people start getting high and mighty about this remember, Bill Perry was capped by England and the Scot Mike Denness captained England.
 
Hang on didn’t Raheem Sterling score for England the other night? He is in a long list of sportsmen who have elected to represent England at international level from other places. Those in glass houses etc....
 
poolseasider said:
Can you ever debate anything properly if you want a rule change say it not single out one player because he scored last night there are thousands of examples in all sports.
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I have provided plenty of examples before. Wales were reliant on multiple English born players when they did well at the last World Cup. Almost all of their goals were scored by English players in those finals.

Examples add weight to debates so will be used.
 
Has little to no bearing on the actual major tournaments, so not an issue for me. It isn't common to see nations who have to do this even qualify for major tournaments, ultimately if you're having to rely on players who aren't good enough for their own nation's national team, in YOUR national team, you're probably not very good. You can attribute a lot of Wales success to having one of the best players in the world at that time as well in Gareth Bale.

All the major footballing nations that dominate their groups and the knock out stages of tournaments all have players representing them from their actual nation of birth. The qualifying stages to the major tournaments are one of the most boring things in football anyway, glorified friendlies - the use of players for smaller nations who aren't from said nations pretty much only appearing in this part of the competition has an easy solution if it bothers you, don't watch the qualifying stages. It doesn't bother me and I don't watch 'em anyway!

It does seem a strange thing to get caught up on to dismiss the entirety of international football. When a major tournament rolls around it is IMO one of the best things in football.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
I have provided plenty of examples before. Wales were reliant on multiple English born players when they did well at the last World Cup. Almost all of their goals were scored by English players in those finals.

Examples add weight to debates so will be used.
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So what are you exactly debating where a player is born,who they have represented at youth level or their ancestry and the potential to play for another country?
Just from last night Rahem Stirling born Jamaica and Declan Rice youth level with Ireland played for England same as many others in the past.
 
Some people just aren't that nationalistic. Strokes for folks. If I couldn't play for England, I'd probably play for Scotland given the choice.
 
poolseasider said:
So what are you exactly debating where a player is born,who they have represented at youth level or their ancestry and the potential to play for another country?
Just from last night Rahem Stirling born Jamaica and Declan Rice youth level with Ireland played for England same as many others in the past.
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You should play for the country you were born. One possible exception to the birth rule - the country you lived in the longest as a child up to the age of 18 when you became an adult.

Ban picking and choosing as an adult, ban when you've represented one country at any level as an adult, ban selecting based on your granny or grandad who you might never have even met. All of those need banning otherwise international football is not a competition between nationals of each nation.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
You should play for the country you were born. One possible exception to the birth rule - the country you lived in the longest as a child up to the age of 18 when you became an adult.

Ban picking and choosing as an adult, ban when you've represented one country at any level as an adult, ban selecting based on your granny or grandad who you might never have even met. All of those need banning otherwise international football is not a competition between nationals of each nation.
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The bit you haven't convinced me of, is why that would be a bad thing?
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
You should play for the country you were born. One possible exception to the birth rule - the country you lived in the longest as a child up to the age of 18 when you became an adult.

Ban picking and choosing as an adult, ban when you've represented one country at any level as an adult, ban selecting based on your granny or grandad who you might never have even met. All of those need banning otherwise international football is not a competition between nationals of each nation.
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The downside of that is if it forces a players hand at a young age we could have lost out on Grealish and Rice but I do agree with you.
 
gjr69 said:
The downside of that is if it forces a players hand at a young age we could have lost out on Grealish and Rice but I do agree with you.
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Grealish and Rice were both offered the chance to play for Ireland (and both got some disgusting abuse for it) but decided they wanted to play for England because they'd been brought up supporting and wanting England to win, and just because they have Irish ancestry, England are still their team.

Maybe it's just me but I could NEVER play for another country, in fact I have never wear another country's shirt, I remember all those goons walking around in Argentina and Brazil shirts after they'd won a World Cup, they should have been birched in the stocks in Poulton.
 
Raging_Bull said:
Grealish and Rice were both offered the chance to play for Ireland (and both got some disgusting abuse for it) but decided they wanted to play for England because they'd been brought up supporting and wanting England to win, and just because they have Irish ancestry, England are still their team.

Maybe it's just me but I could NEVER play for another country, in fact I have never wear another country's shirt, I remember all those goons walking around in Argentina and Brazil shirts after they'd won a World Cup, they should have been birched in the stocks in Poulton.
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Lots of people will have similar backgrounds to Grealish and Rice, I think Harry Kanes father is Irish so he could've gone the same way aswell!
Know what you mean about the foreign shirts, as much as I love watching all the different nations in the World Cup I couldn't wear their shirt.
People who wear the German one baffles me, with Brazil, Argentina and Italy they do have a certain appeal but Germany! Just seems weird to me.
 
I actually considered moving to San Marino many years ago, getting citizenship and therefore eligible to play for the national team. As a footballer if you are not going to make your own national team then I can see the appeal of
Another.
 
Alf said:
The bit you haven't convinced me of, is why that would be a bad thing?
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The very essence of international football is being compromised. You cannot know today if a proper Scottish team would have beaten the Faroes last night because they didn't pick a team of Scots.

Also, what about all the genuine Scottish players on the fringe of playing for their country who don't then get the chance because some English players have been drafted in?
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
The very essence of international football is being compromised. You cannot know today if a proper Scottish team would have beaten the Faroes last night because they didn't pick a team of Scots.

Also, what about all the genuine Scottish players on the fringe of playing for their country who don't then get the chance because some English players have been drafted in?
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Is that the same as some a fast bowler who can't get in the England team because Jofra Archer is in their way or a rugby union player because Manu Tuilagi is in the side and that's the problem you can't just single out football above other sports.

Take Ray Houghton a legend with Ireland but born in Glasgow gave his all for the country and the Irish love him the French had Marcel Desailly(Ghana) the Germans Lukas Poldolski(Poland),Spanish Diego Costa(Brazil) Italians Roberto Di Matteo(Switzerland) so every country uses the rules of residency or family members to get them in the team and their are thousands of cases so to single out Scotland when it happens everywhere in International football didn't Big Ben Burgess represent Rep of Ireland cough. 😁
 
poolseasider said:
Is that the same as some a fast bowler who can't get in the England team because Jofra Archer is in their way or a rugby union player because Manu Tuilagi is in the side and that's the problem you can't just single out football above other sports.

Take Ray Houghton a legend with Ireland but born in Glasgow gave his all for the country and the Irish love him the French had Marcel Desailly(Ghana) the Germans Lukas Poldolski(Poland),Spanish Diego Costa(Brazil) Italians Roberto Di Matteo(Switzerland) so every country uses the rules of residency or family members to get them in the team and their are thousands of cases so to single out Scotland when it happens everywhere in International football didn't Big Ben Burgess represent Rep of Ireland cough. 😁
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This is a football site so only kept it to that but other sports can be a joke too, not least cricket.

Podolski left Poland when he was 2 years old so grew up in Germany. Under my suggestion, as he grew up as a child in Germany and it was all he knew, he would be a valid exception to the birth rule.
 
gjr69 said:
Parent yes but I'm not sure that it should extend to grandparents.
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I think about this way, your grandad - your dads dad is a Scot, his mum English, your dad having been brought up by a Scotsman will feel a little bit Scottish even if he leans towards England by birth/mum. He will along with grandads influence pass that to his son, who by right has therefore a Scottish heritage.
 
Hazi said:
I think about this way, your grandad - your dads dad is a Scot, his mum English, your dad having been brought up by a Scotsman will feel a little bit Scottish even if he leans towards England by birth/mum. He will along with grandads influence pass that to his son, who by right has therefore a Scottish heritage.
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Not sure if it's enough, born in England, parents born in England, 3 grandparents born in England, 1 grandparent born in Scotland. Personally I wouldn't feel very Scottish but if I wasn't wanted by England and Scotland asked me to play for them I'm sure I would.
 
poolseasider said:
Don't see the issue happens in all sport know one gives a hoot with Jofra Archer playing for England Cricket and he's lived here two minutes.
Che's Grandmother is Scottish and let's be honest this has been happening for years.
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Yes, I wouldn't be a fan of the rules myself but nothing to see here.
 
Simple process here for me when two nations are after the same player.

Ask the player when the two teams last played each other, who did he want to win.

If I was England boss that would be the phone call convo I'd be having, sod trying to blag him to play for England, it's as simple as "who's your team".

No way would I want anyone playing for me who wouldn't sing our anthem pre match with anything but pure pride.
 
poolseasider said:
Don't see the issue happens in all sport know one gives a hoot with Jofra Archer playing for England Cricket and he's lived here two minutes.
Che's Grandmother is Scottish and let's be honest this has been happening for years.
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Do you want to borrow some of these?
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