Another season of empty seats then

911_Kirky said:
Phil has a point. We’ve had ST for the past 14 years and only had a break whilst we ousted that lot! Circumstances have dictated that we won’t get to every home game next season (and this season) so decided weeks ago to not bother with a ST and just get a ticket when we could get to games….. at £32, we have some serious thinking to do and soul searching!
So many things the club have got right, but this they have got wrong!
Appreciate it’s a business, but at £32 - it’s just going to switch some fans off! Especially in these economic times….
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No, it’s not £32.

You might not be buying a ST, but for £15 you can buy a membership and pay £25 or less for a ticket bought in advance.

It’s yours and others choice to pay £32, but you don’t have to.

With a £15 membership, you can purchase home league match tickets from:

  • £20 for an adult in the Family Stand, or £25 for an adult with an under-12
  • £15 for a senior/young adult (18-21) in the Family Stand, or £20 for a senior/young adult (18-21) with an under-12
  • £25 for an adult in standard areas of the stadium, or £21 for a senior/young adult (18-21)
 
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The best thing to do is buy a membership at £15 the walk up price is then £25 which is reasonable. Derby had a few fans in the home end and I suspect other clubs who sell the away end out will be the same let them buy at £30 a ticket I’ve no problem with that Blackpool supporters should just pay the membership and let’s be honest if they only turn up for 1 game a season they are no big loss are they.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
No, it’s not £32.

You might not be buying a ST, but for £15 you can buy a membership and pay £25 for a ticket bought in advance.

It’s yours and others choice to pay £32, but you don’t have to.
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And it's 27 if you print your ticket at home or have a membership and can only get to the ground on match day or choose on the day to attend.
 
Philbfctrois said:
Not sure where some of you are getting your maths from

We have averaged about 4k plus empty seats all season
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And yet we still had some of the highest utilisation of home ends in the Championship. Also, your maths is awful. 4k isn't true as we weren't allowed to use parts of the ground.
 
Adams Kebab said:
I get this fully but from a business point of view the Club won’t look after you as much as you can’t attend every game?

They’ve ballsed up on £32 but it’s to make people become members.
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Membership is probably the way forward for people like me. The club can't accommodate everybody's individual situation so it's about taking the option that works best for you and they are giving us options.
 
All this talk of "empty seats" is somewhat disingenuous, in my view. I'm pretty sure our occupancy rate was up around 70% this season, which is pretty good, really.

I think I'm also right in saying that the proportion of people who will be walk ons next season with no membership is likely to be quite small - perhaps less than 5% of the total. Building a pricing strategy around them is very much letting the tail wag the dog, and the club clearly have no intention of doing that.

The whole approach seems predicated upon keeping season ticket renewal levels close to where they are now (and economic circumstances probably dictate that that is as much as we can hope for), and giving less regularly attending fans a financial incentive to keep coming back. Add to that monetising the away end to the hilt and it looks a pretty carefully considered strategy to me.

We are about to see the biggest capital investment in the club that it has ever had in over 130 years of its existence. I can't say I blame the club too much if they try to balance things up a bit on the revenue side.
 
gjr69 said:
Membership is probably the way forward for people like me. The club can't accommodate everybody's individual situation so it's about taking the option that works best for you and they are giving us options.
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It means our first 3 games are 30 quid plus booking fee and subsequent games are 27 plus booking fee. It's a disincentive I think. The club needs to work out how to entice new people to attend, with promotions. It may need to if attendances dip.

Will a person with a membership be able to buy multiple tickets at the membership price, does anybody know? That would help. I attend games when I can persuade people to come with me. They are more likely to if it's 25 I suspect.
 
gjr69 said:
Membership is probably the way forward for people like me. The club can't accommodate everybody's individual situation so it's about taking the option that works best for you and they are giving us options.
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So make it free or a fiver then.
basilrobbie3 said:
All this talk of "empty seats" is somewhat disingenuous, in my view. I'm pretty sure our occupancy rate was up around 70% this season, which is pretty good, really.

I think I'm also right in saying that the proportion of people who will be walk ons next season with no membership is likely to be quite small - perhaps less than 5% of the total. Building a pricing strategy around them is very much letting the tail wag the dog, and the club clearly have no intention of doing that.

The whole approach seems predicated upon keeping season ticket renewal levels close to where they are now (and economic circumstances probably dictate that that is as much as we can hope for), and giving less regularly attending fans a financial incentive to keep coming back. Add to that monetising the away end to the hilt and it looks a pretty carefully considered strategy to me.

We are about to see the biggest capital investment in the club that it has ever had in over 130 years of its existence. I can't say I blame the club too much if they try to balance things up a bit on the revenue side.
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By being one of the dearest Championship sides in the league for the cheapest ticket?

Why would the casual fan give a hoot what's going on in the background he just wants to go to a game at a reasonable price not pay for a training ground.

It's PR disaster I expect one of two things to happen they drop the ridiculous 30/32 before a ball is kicked or when they realise it ain't working will also be sensible with their pricing.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
All this talk of "empty seats" is somewhat disingenuous, in my view. I'm pretty sure our occupancy rate was up around 70% this season, which is pretty good, really.

I think I'm also right in saying that the proportion of people who will be walk ons next season with no membership is likely to be quite small - perhaps less than 5% of the total. Building a pricing strategy around them is very much letting the tail wag the dog, and the club clearly have no intention of doing that.

The whole approach seems predicated upon keeping season ticket renewal levels close to where they are now (and economic circumstances probably dictate that that is as much as we can hope for), and giving less regularly attending fans a financial incentive to keep coming back. Add to that monetising the away end to the hilt and it looks a pretty carefully considered strategy to me.

We are about to see the biggest capital investment in the club that it has ever had in over 130 years of its existence. I can't say I blame the club too much if they try to balance things up a bit on the revenue side.
Click to expand...
Hmm. It's not about building a pricing strategy around the infrequent attenders, it's about keeping prices generally respectable for different types of people including people who can't afford to go regularly, or who work shift patterns. We could be the most expensive cheapest match ticket in the division. London prices. I'm surprised you can't understand this.

I also think it's unreasonable to charge away fans so much, for seats in the east.

If Sadler makes a huge investment that's great, but it doesn't justify lathe increases and over charging. It won't even increase revenue that much in the grand scheme, away fans paying 5 quid more. About 10k a game. It won't make much of a dent in the 30m will it?
 
poolseasider said:
Why would the casual fan give a hoot what's going on in the background he just wants to go to a game at a reasonable price not pay for a training ground.
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Have you ever thought that what the casual fan who MIGHT attend wants is not the primary consideration here? The main beneficiary of this strategy is the most loyal group of all, who get Championship football for around £16 a pop. And they do "give a hoot" about the club being competitive and sustainable for the long term.
 
JJpool said:
Is that you favourite saying, even when it's not true, are you now denying the crowd increased for the 20 quid games end of season and calling it opinion, when it's a clear fact.... 😖
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The future part is your opinion. I can’t help it if you don’t get that 👍
 
seasideone said:
The future part is your opinion. I can’t help it if you don’t get that 👍
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Thats not what I'm arguing, I'm saying it DID increase in the past when lower, you seem reluctant to accept that for some reason.

I admit the rest is an assumption based of this principle. Just like its yoir assumption it won't again increase, like it just did.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
Have you ever thought that what the casual fan who MIGHT attend wants is not the primary consideration here? The main beneficiary of this strategy is the most loyal group of all, who get Championship football for around £16 a pop. And they do "give a hoot" about the club being competitive and sustainable for the long term.
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I give a hoot about away fans getting ripped off.
I asked Wiz which grounds he'd pay 30+ this season he came up with just Fulham.
One ground now we're as expensive as London.

If you can't see that's plain wrong nothing to do with training ground etc being built and going to be decremental to attendances you need to take your tangerine tinted specs off.
 
JJpool said:
Thats not what I'm arguing, I'm saying it DID increase in the past when lower, you seem reluctant to accept that for some reason.

I admit the rest is an assumption based of this principle. Just like its yoir assumption it won't again increase, like it just did.
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I have made no assumptions it will not work or it will work, I have done the exact opposite.

I have consistently said to other posters who think they are right that it’s just their opinion and proof will be in the pudding.
 
People post like we've always had 7-8k ST holders in this division and haven't had 3-4k at other points in the past. Very much taking for granted that most people are going to renew and that as a result there'll be a very small % of "casual" fans whatever one of those are. Remove that initial assumption and the whole pricing policy begins to look incredibly suspect.
 
voyeur said:
If Sadler makes a huge investment that's great, but it doesn't justify lathe increases and over charging. It won't even increase revenue that much in the grand scheme, away fans paying 5 quid more. About 10k a game. It won't make much of a dent in the 30m will it?
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No, it won't make much of a dent. Nor will knocking a fiver off attract a phantom army of walk ons who might not even exist. Setting the notional price high for the latter gives you the ability to maximise revenue from the former. It is fairly ruthless economics, but understandable.

The fact remains that if you can't commit to a ST, but want to watch the majority of home games, if you buy a membership you can watch Championship football for around £26. I think there may be National League clubs where you pay that.

I don't think people realise that when a club of our size, and with our "reach" gets Into the Championship, they are immediately trying to defy gravity by competing with clubs who have far larger support, sometimes parachute payments and (in some cases) a propensity to spend money that they haven't got in order to chase the golden goose. This strategy is designed to try and give us the best chance we have of competing against that. I don't like every last aspect of it, but it is at least coherent and fits with the wider situation they find themselves in.
 
voyeur said:
It means our first 3 games are 30 quid plus booking fee and subsequent games are 27 plus booking fee. It's a disincentive I think. The club needs to work out how to entice new people to attend, with promotions. It may need to if attendances dip.

Will a person with a membership be able to buy multiple tickets at the membership price, does anybody know? That would help. I attend games when I can persuade people to come with me. They are more likely to if it's 25 I suspect.
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30 plus is too much, personally I would have preferred a flat 25 regardless of opposition with no membership fee.
Unfortunately we don't get to set the prices but we do get to decide where we spend our money.
I know for a fact that I won't be paying 30 quid to watch Rotherham on a Tuesday night in February when I can watch it for free at home. This might be part of the reason why season ticket prices are so much more enticing than memberships and individual tickets.
 
Philbfctrois said:
Not a chance fans will pay £32 for a match day ticket

Far too expensive 😪

Membership a great idea but not everyone will get one especially fans who can only get to occasional matches or fans who work weekends

Very few people will pay the walk up price of £32

Print at home cost £2 as well, bizarre

Season ticket prices ok, but its a £30 increase in most areas at a time when people are struggling with cost of living increases, there was also a 'modest' increase last season after people had forked out on a season ticket with no games

18-21 idea is a good one but its about £80 too expensive imo

We are meant to be a community club, doesn’t look like it squeezing our own fans

The club also aren't selling East tickets which suggests the whole East will be made available for away clubs who can sell it, so we could have some away clubs having a third of the capacity thus losing any real home advantage

Will also probably mean our away fans will get rinsed on away prices on a tit for tat basis after we charge £32

So all in all i think the club have got it wrong again

Just my opinion 🤷
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Genuine question. You always have such a negative opinion regarding what the club is / isn’t doing and also the work of the SLO etc. Instead of moaning on here how come you didn’t try get an invite to the structured dialogue meeting and air your thoughts with the board and Sadler ? Or did you try and not get an invite ? I’m 100% for getting you into the next meeting and hope the SLO can make that happen. Some of your issues may well have been given plenty of thought by the club. You could I suppose also be the only one to have thought that way. Either way I think you need to go.
 
gjr69 said:
30 plus is too much, personally I would have preferred a flat 25 regardless of opposition with no membership fee.
Unfortunately we don't get to set the prices but we do get to decide where we spend our money.
I know for a fact that I won't be paying 30 quid to watch Rotherham on a Tuesday night in February when I can watch it for free at home. This might be part of the reason why season ticket prices are so much more enticing than memberships and individual tickets.
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Agreed. The lure of the dodgy stream. 👍
 
seasideone said:
I have made no assumptions it will not work or it will work, I have done the exact opposite.

I have consistently said to other posters who think they are right that it’s just their opinion and proof will be in the pudding.
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In fairness, there are two issues here really and people are possibly conflating them to a large extent.

1. Commercial viability

So whether the pricing policy is commercially sound and drives the kind of response and revenue that the business is seeking to achieve.

In that regard the Club will need to respond on the basis of normal commercial factors.

2. Accessibility and general affordability

This is more about the local community, social deprivation and how we might make football at Blackpool mor accessibility to people on lower level incomes.

I’m not sure you can necessarily let your commercial decision making be driven wholly by the fact that we have people who are struggling to get by. Those individuals and families will have a whole series of challenges and the solution lies in government policy change and not the pricing of football tickets.

That’s not to say, however that the club doesn’t have a social responsibility. They obviously have the Community Trust which is doing seriously positive stuff within our local community and we have the Players also doing their bit.

I do think that it would be nice (as and when we have availability) to offer a limited number of tickets available to low income households (200 maybe) for each match. I’m not quite sure how that would be administered, but perhaps something BST could assist with👍
 
seasideone said:
I have made no assumptions it will not work or it will work, I have done the exact opposite.

I have consistently said to other posters who think they are right that it’s just their opinion and proof will be in the pudding.
Click to expand...
An opinion based of the most recent attendance data we have.

But the club have the actual data and have gone a different way, I don't think its great to be so high, but as you say let's see.

Hopefully, somehow we don't drop numbers and still increase numbers, but I'm a bit worried in this cost of living crisis that won't happen at that price. Probably wouldn't happen at the price with no cost of living issues.

But as I said in another thread, people on here who claim they would buy many season tickets and money no issue could put money into a fund to buy memberships for the less well off, or first come first served or whatever, effectively reducing matchday prices to 25 for the lucky people.

But that went down like a lead balloon.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
No, it won't make much of a dent. Nor will knocking a fiver off attract a phantom army of walk ons who might not even exist. Setting the notional price high for the latter gives you the ability to maximise revenue from the former. It is fairly ruthless economics, but understandable.

The fact remains that if you can't commit to a ST, but want to watch the majority of home games, if you buy a membership you can watch Championship football for around £26. I think there may be National League clubs where you pay that.

I don't think people realise that when a club of our size, and with our "reach" gets Into the Championship, they are immediately trying to defy gravity by competing with clubs who have far larger support, sometimes parachute payments and (in some cases) a propensity to spend money that they haven't got in order to chase the golden goose. This strategy is designed to try and give us the best chance we have of competing against that. I don't like every last aspect of it, but it is at least coherent and fits with the wider situation they find themselves in.
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If you will go to the majority of games you will buy a ST so you need to think that sentence through again. It doesn't apply to anybody.

It's definitely ruthless. I hope SS becomes a lot more cautious about using the phrase community club. Because we are now being run on ruthless revenue maximising business lines. Pushing prices as far as possible. As long as we're are absolutely clear about what is happening. We can all decide how to respond to it.
 
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LA1 Seasider said:
Genuine question. You always have such a negative opinion regarding what the club is / isn’t doing and also the work of the SLO etc. Instead of moaning on here how come you didn’t try get an invite to the structured dialogue meeting and air your thoughts with the board and Sadler ? Or did you try and not get an invite ? I’m 100% for getting you into the next meeting and hope the SLO can make that happen. Some of your issues may well have been given plenty of thought by the club. You could I suppose also be the only one to have thought that way. Either way I think you need to go.
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Aaah but he does balance it out with his positivity regarding Critchley and the team performance…….Oh wait…
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I do think that it would be nice (as and when we have availability) to offer a limited number of tickets available to low income households (200 maybe) for each match. I’m not quite sure how that would be administered, but perhaps something BST could assist with👍
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It's a very good idea, why not drop me a line at bst-secretary@blackpoolsupportersrust.com ? We can talk it through in a bit more detail.

It's the same sort of thinking that has underpinned BST's policy of buying season tickets for use by charitable groups in past seasons.
 
rockontommy said:
Quite. You could even call it ruthless economics.
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Yes. I've always paid to watch games 9n TTV but it's just occurred to me I could stop doing that and save the money to fund occasional match tickets. It goes against my principles but so does the ruthless pricing model.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
In fairness, there are two issues here really and people are possibly conflating them to a large extent.

1. Commercial viability

So whether the pricing policy is commercially sound and drives the kind of response and revenue that the business is seeking to achieve.

In that regard the Club will need to respond on the basis of normal commercial factors.

2. Accessibility and general affordability

This is more about the local community, social deprivation and how we might make football at Blackpool mor accessibility to people on lower level incomes.

I’m not sure you can necessarily let your commercial decision making be driven wholly by the fact that we have people who are struggling to get by. Those individuals and families will have a whole series of challenges and the solution lies in government policy change and not the pricing of football tickets.

That’s not to say, however that the club doesn’t have a social responsibility. They obviously have the Community Trust which is doing seriously positive stuff within our local community and we have the Players also doing their bit.

I do think that it would be nice (as and when we have availability) to offer a limited number of tickets available to low income households (200 maybe) for each match. I’m not quite sure how that would be administered, but perhaps something BST could assist with👍
Click to expand...
I just think the club should keep prices in line with other Championship clubs of similar standing. That's all. Not create barriers to people deciding to give it a go, and not rip off away fans with London prices. It looks shit and it is shit. It loses good will and it won't bring that much money in.
 
voyeur said:
Will a person with a membership be able to buy multiple tickets at the membership price, does anybody know? That would help. I attend games when I can persuade people to come with me. They are more likely to if it's 25 I suspect.
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Apparently not, only the one ticket with a membership.
 
voyeur said:
I just think the club should keep prices in line with other Championship clubs of similar standing. That's all. Not create barriers to people deciding to give it a go, and not rip off away fans with London prices. It looks shit and it is shit. It loses good will and it won't bring that much money in.
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Well yes, as I’ve alluded to, the Club are subject to the same commercial realities as every other Club.👍
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
And yet these same fans miraculously can find the money for the big games.

In common with most clubs, we have a good number who only go when the team is doing well, or there is a big game. No way should SS be incentivising that approach.

For a modest sum to purchase membership, the club is offering good discounts on match day tickets. To make the most of this, fans can buy in advance. We cannot plan & invest in the club, based on maybe a few hundred fans who decide on the day (unless it’s a big game, when they will be happy to purchase in advance).

The 18-21 ST price is an absolute bargain.
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How do you know the 18-21 ST price is an absolute bargain when you aren't in that age bracket 🤔
 
I sort of missed this thread so haven't really read but there's no doubting the fact that Phil is right in that walk on prices are too expensive and involve too much hoop jumping to buy, it will put off the casual fan, many of which will have no idea of membership schemes etc..

Are they keeping the purchase history rule because that's going to put off people who may be wiling to stump up the cash, just have it as local photo ID, it's not difficult.
 
Philbfctrois said:
How do you know the 18-21 ST price is an absolute bargain when you aren't in that age bracket 🤔
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Because my lad will be shortly and he thinks it’s a bargain too, and he’ll be paying for it.

Also, I coach a team at that age group and that sort of money for a ST is very achievable. You go to the same games as I do, and you’ll have seen the wedge that is spent in that age group just on beer.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
Because my lad will be shortly and he thinks it’s a bargain too, and he’ll be paying for it.

Also, I coach a team at that age group and that sort of money for a ST is very achievable. You go to the same games as I do, and you’ll have seen the wedge that is spent in that age group just on beer.
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Phil’s a bit out of touch. I think he still thinks it’s 1989, when the average 18-21 year old was forking out £15 a week on E’s and still going to the football week in week out.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
I sort of missed this thread so haven't really read but there's no doubting the fact that Phil is right in that walk on prices are too expensive and involve too much hoop jumping to buy, it will put off the casual fan, many of which will have no idea of membership schemes etc..

Are they keeping the purchase history rule because that's going to put off people who may be wiling to stump up the cash, just have it as local photo ID, it's not difficult.
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It’s hardly hoop jumping, a couple of minutes to apply for membership then buying a ticket the day before a match. In fact, no longer than it takes to renew a ST.

These casual fans are not what we can build a sustainable future on.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
And yet these same fans miraculously can find the money for the big games.

In common with most clubs, we have a good number who only go when the team is doing well, or there is a big game. No way should SS be incentivising that approach.

For a modest sum to purchase membership, the club is offering good discounts on match day tickets. To make the most of this, fans can buy in advance. We cannot plan & invest in the club, based on maybe a few hundred fans who decide on the day (unless it’s a big game, when they will be happy to purchase in advance).

The 18-21 ST price is an absolute bargain.
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It's from those 'few hundred fans' that the core support grows though, a few hundred new fans per match can translate to more ST'S down the line.

You have to incentivise new support as much as possible and make it easy for them to attend as most people aren't dyed in the wool lunatics like us, they're normal people with a hundred things trying to grab their attention and money.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
It’s hardly hoop jumping, a couple of minutes to apply for membership then buying a ticket the day before a match. In fact, no longer than it takes to renew a ST.

These casual fans are not what we can build a sustainable future on.
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So that's the ticket price plus the membership cost for something they might not be planning to do again before they might get hooked?
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
It's from those 'few hundred fans' that the core support grows though, a few hundred new fans per match can translate to more ST'S down the line.

You have to incentivise new support as much as possible and make it easy for them to attend as most people aren't dyed in the wool lunatics like us, they're normal people with a hundred things trying to grab their attention and money.
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I agree Lytham, but would argue that the club is making ST attractive at £16 per game. I know many cannot buy for various reasons, so the membership scheme at £15 gives very good match day discounts. Any fan not willing to spend £15 on membership is probably not one we can hope to attract on a more regular basis.

SS has made the pricing structure as balanced as possible. Like I mentioned yesterday, it’s £380 at Stockport County and £17 per match at Altrincham, both National League.
 
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TimperleyTangerine said:
It’s hardly hoop jumping, a couple of minutes to apply for membership then buying a ticket the day before a match. In fact, no longer than it takes to renew a ST.

These casual fans are not what we can build a sustainable future on.
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Its exactly the 'casual' fans that the club needs to build a sustainable future on

If not we will just stagnate on 8k or so season ticket holders

And that isn't any good for anyone

As for the 18-21 price point i would have thought that many in that age range are still in education and not working for a living 🤔
 
poolseasider said:
I give a hoot about away fans getting ripped off.
I asked Wiz which grounds he'd pay 30+ this season he came up with just Fulham.
One ground now we're as expensive as London.

If you can't see that's plain wrong nothing to do with training ground etc being built and going to be decremental to attendances you need to take your tangerine tinted specs off.
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That was last season. I don't know what the price range is for the coming season.
 
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