Are some people just pure evil?

T

tangerinenotorange

Well-known member
Like many on here I found the tragic death of Jordan Banks traumatic. I'm sure many people not even related to or connected to the lovely little man have struggled to come to terms with this terrible event. The world is so unfair at times. So God bless Jordan and strength to his family.

What I find so unfair is that this innocent family and so many others have been hit by tragedy, yet so many amazing people are doing all they can to help those in need, either through their work or because they feel the need to help. Then I read a story like the one in the Gazette about the disgusting woman who I'm happy to name as Natasha Ivy Jolly. She moved house from Grasmere Road, but before leaving she locked her little tan terrier in a cupboard. The poor dog had no light, no food, no bedding, no friend and no hope of rescue. For weeks or maybe months the terrier suffered terribly, ate its own faeces and plastic clothes tags and anything else it could before dying in terrible pain, in the dark, alone and in despair. Meanwhile, the horrible woman moved to St Chad's Road and carried on her life as normal, no doubt not giving the suffering animal a second thought. After the smell of the rotting corpse alerted neighbours, a post mortem was carried out on the dog which was just skin and bones. Jolly was given a suspended prison sentence and told to pay £150 costs. So, once again a nothing punishment.

This kind of thing makes me so angry. Cruelty is such an evil and pointless trait and I find cruelty to children and animals who can't fight back so upsetting. I'm sure animal lovers like myself struggle to understand the minds of people like Jolly. I hope she lives and learns what an evil thing she's done.
 
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Couple down south shore with daughter who had learning difficulties were found to be keeping her locked up and under nourished, she died I think. Not much news on that. Seems some people are totally forgotten or ignored or both.
 
tangerinenotorange said:
Like many on here I found the tragic death of Jordan Banks traumatic. I'm sure many people not even related to or connected to the lovely little man have struggled to come to terms with this terrible event. The world is so unfair at times. So God bless Jordan and strength to his family.

What I find so unfair is that this innocent family and so many others have been hit by tragedy and so many amazing people are doing all they can to help those in need, either through their work or because they feel the need to help. Then I read a story like the one in the Gazette today about the disgusting woman who I'm happy to name as Natasha Ivy Jolly. She moved house from Grasmere Road, but before leaving she locked her little tan terrier in a cupboard. The poor dog had no light, no food, no bedding, no friend and no hope of rescue. For weeks or maybe months the terrier suffered terribly, ate its own faeces and plastic clothes tags and anything else it could before dying in terrible pain, in the dark, alone and in despair. Meanwhile, the horrible woman moved to St Chad's Road and carried on her life as normal, no doubt not giving the suffering animal a second thought. After the smell of the rotting corpse alerted neighbours, a post mortem was carried out on the dog which was just skin and bones. Jolly was given a suspended prison sentence and told to pay £150 costs. So, once again a nothing punishment.

This kind of thing makes me so angry. Cruelty is such an evil and pointless trait and I find cruelty to children and animals who can't fight back so upsetting. I'm sure animal lovers such as myself struggle to understand the minds of people like Jolly. I hope she lives and learns what an evil thing she's done.
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No, I don’t really think anybody is born evil. Statistically people who hurt animals are victims of abuse acting out, or people with undiagnosed mental disorders and/or strong feelings of inadequacy. Pretending ‘some people are just bad’ is a coping mechanism we employ to avoid the difficult question of how we change things.
 
tangerinenotorange said:
Like many on here I found the tragic death of Jordan Banks traumatic. I'm sure many people not even related to or connected to the lovely little man have struggled to come to terms with this terrible event. The world is so unfair at times. So God bless Jordan and strength to his family.

What I find so unfair is that this innocent family and so many others have been hit by tragedy and so many amazing people are doing all they can to help those in need, either through their work or because they feel the need to help. Then I read a story like the one in the Gazette today about the disgusting woman who I'm happy to name as Natasha Ivy Jolly. She moved house from Grasmere Road, but before leaving she locked her little tan terrier in a cupboard. The poor dog had no light, no food, no bedding, no friend and no hope of rescue. For weeks or maybe months the terrier suffered terribly, ate its own faeces and plastic clothes tags and anything else it could before dying in terrible pain, in the dark, alone and in despair. Meanwhile, the horrible woman moved to St Chad's Road and carried on her life as normal, no doubt not giving the suffering animal a second thought. After the smell of the rotting corpse alerted neighbours, a post mortem was carried out on the dog which was just skin and bones. Jolly was given a suspended prison sentence and told to pay £150 costs. So, once again a nothing punishment.

This kind of thing makes me so angry. Cruelty is such an evil and pointless trait and I find cruelty to children and animals who can't fight back so upsetting. I'm sure animal lovers such as myself struggle to understand the minds of people like Jolly. I hope she lives and learns what an evil thing she's done.
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Yes, not a nice piece of news to read. Unusually, she got caught, but the problem is everyone else has to pay for the harm she caused - from clean up, to post mortem to court hearing and then read about it all - I suppose some of it comes down to standards; both personal and moral. Hard to see any leaders in that field at the moment. She should be billed with the lot but the lighter side of me says you dont know her circumstances etc as why she made the decision she made. Always be responsible for your actions.

On Jordan, that was such an unusual and random incident. Heartbraking news but I hope he can still kick a ball in the heavens and he will be remembered for being a bright young man. As a football based communication medium we will remember him as he loved football. I hope our Club can dedicate something to him in terms of performance in the play offs as this touching story deserves hearing.
 
Alf said:
No, I don’t really think anybody is born evil. Statistically people who hurt animals are victims of abuse acting out, or people with undiagnosed mental disorders and/or strong feelings of inadequacy. Pretending ‘some people are just bad’ is a coping mechanism we employ to avoid the difficult question of how we change things.
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So basically what you're saying is that Peter Sutcliffe, The moors murderers, Harold Shipman, Fred and Rose West et al are/were crying out for help?
Obviously anyone who does wrong are misunderstood!
 
tangerinenotorange said:
Like many on here I found the tragic death of Jordan Banks traumatic. I'm sure many people not even related to or connected to the lovely little man have struggled to come to terms with this terrible event. The world is so unfair at times. So God bless Jordan and strength to his family.

What I find so unfair is that this innocent family and so many others have been hit by tragedy and so many amazing people are doing all they can to help those in need, either through their work or because they feel the need to help. Then I read a story like the one in the Gazette today about the disgusting woman who I'm happy to name as Natasha Ivy Jolly. She moved house from Grasmere Road, but before leaving she locked her little tan terrier in a cupboard. The poor dog had no light, no food, no bedding, no friend and no hope of rescue. For weeks or maybe months the terrier suffered terribly, ate its own faeces and plastic clothes tags and anything else it could before dying in terrible pain, in the dark, alone and in despair. Meanwhile, the horrible woman moved to St Chad's Road and carried on her life as normal, no doubt not giving the suffering animal a second thought. After the smell of the rotting corpse alerted neighbours, a post mortem was carried out on the dog which was just skin and bones. Jolly was given a suspended prison sentence and told to pay £150 costs. So, once again a nothing punishment.

This kind of thing makes me so angry. Cruelty is such an evil and pointless trait and I find cruelty to children and animals who can't fight back so upsetting. I'm sure animal lovers such as myself struggle to understand the minds of people like Jolly. I hope she lives and learns what an evil thing she's done.
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Yes unfortunately some people are just plain twisted What a pity she couldn’t be put down with an injection.
 
Wizzerboy said:
So basically what you're saying is that Peter Sutcliffe, The moors murderers, Harold Shipman, Fred and Rose West et al are/were crying out for help?
Obviously anyone who does wrong are misunderstood!
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No. But it’s a very predictable over simplification and I thank you for it.
 
I never understood why anybody does things like this or what is possibly going on in their head. If you don’t want the pet anymore just give him away or contact the RSPCA. There’s thousands of people that would have been willing to adopt that dog no doubt. Some people are just twisted
 
Wizzerboy said:
So basically what you're saying is that Peter Sutcliffe, The moors murderers, Harold Shipman, Fred and Rose West et al are/were crying out for help?
Obviously anyone who does wrong are misunderstood!
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Not so much misunderstood, but they’re clearly not wired up right are they?
 
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BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Not so much misunderstood, but they’re clearly not wired up right are they?
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Define wired up right?

They may be perfectly wired up and don't think that there's anything wrong in what they do.
Those people may think that we're not wired up right.

You end up walking on thin ice saying that they've got problems, is it just that there are more of us that think they have problems or is it us that have the problem being repulsed by what they do?
 
Wizzerboy said:
Define wired up right?

They may be perfectly wired up and don't think that there's anything wrong in what they do.
Those people may think that we're not wired up right.

You end up walking on thin ice saying that they've got problems, is it just that there are more of us that think they have problems or is it us that have the problem being repulsed by what they do?
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I mean that they most likely have some kind of personality disorder. That might be genetic or it might be as a result of some kind of childhood event, trauma, abuse etc...

I can see why a normal person might commit an act in the heat of the moment, but to my mind the sort of characters you’re talking about are just ‘not right’.

I’m not saying that’s an excuse, but just how it is.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I mean that they most likely have some kind of personality disorder. That might be genetic or it might be as a result of some kind of childhood event, trauma, abuse etc...

I can see why a normal person might commit an act in the heat of the moment, but to my mind the sort of characters you’re talking about are just ‘not right’.

I’m not saying that’s an excuse, but just how it is.
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Some people are just cnuts.
 
tangerinenotorange said:
Like many on here I found the tragic death of Jordan Banks traumatic. I'm sure many people not even related to or connected to the lovely little man have struggled to come to terms with this terrible event. The world is so unfair at times. So God bless Jordan and strength to his family.

What I find so unfair is that this innocent family and so many others have been hit by tragedy, yet so many amazing people are doing all they can to help those in need, either through their work or because they feel the need to help. Then I read a story like the one in the Gazette about the disgusting woman who I'm happy to name as Natasha Ivy Jolly. She moved house from Grasmere Road, but before leaving she locked her little tan terrier in a cupboard. The poor dog had no light, no food, no bedding, no friend and no hope of rescue. For weeks or maybe months the terrier suffered terribly, ate its own faeces and plastic clothes tags and anything else it could before dying in terrible pain, in the dark, alone and in despair. Meanwhile, the horrible woman moved to St Chad's Road and carried on her life as normal, no doubt not giving the suffering animal a second thought. After the smell of the rotting corpse alerted neighbours, a post mortem was carried out on the dog which was just skin and bones. Jolly was given a suspended prison sentence and told to pay £150 costs. So, once again a nothing punishment.

This kind of thing makes me so angry. Cruelty is such an evil and pointless trait and I find cruelty to children and animals who can't fight back so upsetting. I'm sure animal lovers like myself struggle to understand the minds of people like Jolly. I hope she lives and learns what an evil thing she's done.
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I would love just 5 minutes alone with the witch, 🤬🤬🤬🤬
 
tangerinenotorange said:
Like many on here I found the tragic death of Jordan Banks traumatic. I'm sure many people not even related to or connected to the lovely little man have struggled to come to terms with this terrible event. The world is so unfair at times. So God bless Jordan and strength to his family.

What I find so unfair is that this innocent family and so many others have been hit by tragedy, yet so many amazing people are doing all they can to help those in need, either through their work or because they feel the need to help. Then I read a story like the one in the Gazette about the disgusting woman who I'm happy to name as Natasha Ivy Jolly. She moved house from Grasmere Road, but before leaving she locked her little tan terrier in a cupboard. The poor dog had no light, no food, no bedding, no friend and no hope of rescue. For weeks or maybe months the terrier suffered terribly, ate its own faeces and plastic clothes tags and anything else it could before dying in terrible pain, in the dark, alone and in despair. Meanwhile, the horrible woman moved to St Chad's Road and carried on her life as normal, no doubt not giving the suffering animal a second thought. After the smell of the rotting corpse alerted neighbours, a post mortem was carried out on the dog which was just skin and bones. Jolly was given a suspended prison sentence and told to pay £150 costs. So, once again a nothing punishment.

This kind of thing makes me so angry. Cruelty is such an evil and pointless trait and I find cruelty to children and animals who can't fight back so upsetting. I'm sure animal lovers like myself struggle to understand the minds of people like Jolly. I hope she lives and learns what an evil thing she's done.
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Maybe she will die in similar circumstances ,should be locked up for that cruelty I have two dogs who are my life , wo betide anyone touches one of them ,I will go to prison .
 
Evil is a convenient get out for a failing society that loves its scapegoats when the opportunity arises, where there are plenty of people who exist in Blackpool who've left pets to fend for themselves as the OP has picked up on.
Going to one on Hill Street where it took months to get rid of the smell,but folk get sold the notion of a family pet without realising the responsibility. Time moves on a they can't cope but for generations you had to have a dog licence; I'd bring it back,have a data base for petcare and charge a fee for doing that and if you cant afford it buy a budgie.
 
So cruelty to animals is just something that poor people get involved in?

Maybe we should just be done with it a put folk in prison just for having a bad credit score ?
 
The only solace from reading things like this is it's a tiny number of people; the vast majority of us do the right thing, almost all of the time.
 
Plumbs said:
Evil is a convenient get out for a failing society that loves its scapegoats when the opportunity arises, where there are plenty of people who exist in Blackpool who've left pets to fend for themselves as the OP has picked up on.
Going to one on Hill Street where it took months to get rid of the smell,but folk get sold the notion of a family pet without realising the responsibility. Time moves on a they can't cope but for generations you had to have a dog licence; I'd bring it back,have a data base for petcare and charge a fee for doing that and if you cant afford it buy a budgie.
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Yep, I agree about the dog licence, make it a grand at least, because if you can't afford that you can't afford a dog.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Yep, I agree about the dog licence, make it a grand at least, because if you can't afford that you can't afford a dog.
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Homeless people manage perfectly well to look after their dogs. The idea that you need to be able to afford to lay out a grand in order to own a pet is absolutely elitist bullshit.

There’s plenty of folk with money who mistreat animals and wealth is no guarantee that an animal wouldn’t be mistreated.

Licensing should be about determine suitability of a person to own a pet, not whether they are wadded.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Homeless people manage perfectly well to look after their dogs. The idea that you need to be able to afford to lay out a grand in order to own a pet is absolutely elitist bullshit.

There’s plenty of folk with money who mistreat animals and wealth is no guarantee that an animal wouldn’t be mistreated.

Licensing should be about determine suitability of a person to own a pet, not whether they are wadded.
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It would stop people buying or adopting them on a whim which is where 99% of problems come from.

I did consider the homeless aspect when typing that but they can only look after the dog until it needs treatment, then someone else does by paying for it, or it doesn't get treatment. That's why the PDSA exists.

Everyone knows that vet bills or insurance can escalate pretty quickly so if you can't lay out a grand you shouldn't be getting a dog.

Anyway if it is 'elitist bullshit' (although I'm not sure £1000 to look after a life for upwards of 20 years is elitist) then tough, it would stop cases like this. I'd rather be an 'elitish bullshitter' than have to read about this.
 
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Lytham_fy8 said:
It would stop people buying or adopting them on a whim which is where 99% of problems come from.

I did consider the homeless aspect when typing that but they can only look after the dog until it needs treatment, then someone else does by paying for it, or t doesn't get treatment.

Everyone knows that vet bills or insurance can escalate pretty quickly so if you can't lay out a grand you shouldn't be getting a dog.

Anyway if it is 'elitist bullshit' (although I'm not sure £1000 to look after a life for upwards of 20 years is elitist) then tough, it would stop cases like this.
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There’s plenty of alternative ways to deal with getting pets on a whim that should be considered before you start going down the elitist route. You’d be far better licensing breeding than ownership as the latter is pointless and would likely encourage more issues (for example people failing to take unlicensed sick animals to a vet)

And it’s not about looking after a life “for upwards of 20 years” (leaving aside the gross exaggeration over the typical lifespan of a dog - more like 10-12 years). Finding a grand in one go is a world away from finding a few quid each week to pay for pet insurance and food.

Not that it would stop whim buyers in any case, most of whom would have money and see the dog as some kind of ** accessory, until it shits all over their Axminster shag pile.

The PDSA exists to support less fortunate dog owners, pensioners & individuals who rely on the company of their pets and who (apart from needing assistance in an emergency) provide fantastic loving homes for their pets.

You may want to deny that through some kind of financially based approach, but personally I’d much rather support those individuals to enjoy their pets.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
There’s plenty of alternative ways to deal with getting pets on a whim that should be considered before you start going down the elitist route. You’d be far better licensing breeding than ownership as the latter is pointless and would likely encourage more issues (for example people failing to take unlicensed sick animals to a vet)

And it’s not about looking after a life “for upwards of 20 years” (leaving aside the gross exaggeration over the typical lifespan of a dog - more like 10-12 years). Finding a grand in one go is a world away from finding a few quid each week to pay for pet insurance and food.

Not that it would stop whim buyers in any case, most of whom would have money and see the dog as some kind of ** accessory, until it shits all over their Axminster shag pile.

The PDSA exists to support less fortunate dog owners, pensioners & individuals who rely on the company of their pets and who (apart from needing assistance in an emergency) provide fantastic loving homes for their pets.

You may want to deny that through some kind of financially based approach, but personally I’d much rather support those individuals to enjoy their pets.
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'Upwards' of 20 years, I've had Collies that have been 18 years old. Stop resorting to the Bifster 'selective reading' to make a point, an entire paragraph of a point in fact.

Ok, maybe the ELITE grand is out of the window, maybe an owner has to go on a 12 week course before being allowed a dog, it can be subsidised for the NON ELITE and funded by a more nominal licence fee, or paid in instalments, 20 quid a lesson. I mean I haven't had my accountant look at the figures, he's doing some elite business for me in Monaco but as soon as he's back on the private jet I'll get him right on it, I'm just blue sky thinking and seeing which drawing pins hold the poster up baby.

The licensing breeding idea is already with us, you need one for three or more litters a year and there's unannounced visits. It doesn't work.
 
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Lytham_fy8 said:
'Upwards' of 20 years, I've had Collies that have been 18 years old. Stop resorting to the Bifster 'selective reading' to make a point, an entire paragraph of a point in fact.

Ok, maybe the ELITE grand is out of the window, maybe an owner has to go on a 12 week course or so before being allowed a dog, it can be subsidised for the NON ELITE and funded by a more nominal licence fee.

The licensing breeding idea is already with us, you need one for three or more litters a year and there's unannounced visits. It doesn't work.
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Lytham, "Upwards of" means "in excess of" - You may well have had Collies that lived 18 years, but that's an exception in dog terms and it's still not upwards of 20 years. Pedantic maybe, but if I just don't get the need to exhaggerate.

It's possible that some kind of screening / education for dog owners might be worthwhile. In fairness though a responsible breeder ought to be undertaking some checks on a prospective owner before selling a dog and (I'd argue) be required by law to offer to take a dog back if things don't work out. All dogs should be microchipped and all should not only have the details of the current owner, but also retain details of breeder and former owners.

I hear what you are saying about licensing not working for breeders, but that is about lack of will to enforce, rather than any failing in the general concept. It's certainly more viable than trying to license ownership, where historically the take up (even at a low cost) was maybe 40-50%.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Yep, I agree about the dog licence, make it a grand at least, because if you can't afford that you can't afford a dog.
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Extreme to say the least. I would pay it In a heart beat, but theres millions of people who cany afford to pay that that would give a perfectly good home to a dog and be a respectful owner. Money doesn’t solve everything.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Lytham, "Upwards of" means "in excess of" - You may well have had Collies that lived 18 years, but that's an exception in dog terms and it's still not upwards of 20 years. Pedantic maybe, but if I just don't get the need to exhaggerate.

It's possible that some kind of screening / education for dog owners might be worthwhile. In fairness though a responsible breeder ought to be undertaking some checks on a prospective owner before selling a dog and (I'd argue) be required by law to offer to take a dog back if things don't work out. All dogs should be microchipped and all should not only have the details of the current owner, but also retain details of breeder and former owners.

I hear what you are saying about licensing not working for breeders, but that is about lack of will to enforce, rather than any failing in the general concept. It's certainly more viable than trying to license ownership, where historically the take up (even at a low cost) was maybe 40-50%.
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There's nothing worse than exhaggerating.

I meant 'up to', I'm a dick.

All dogs do have to be microchipped, I don't think putting the breeders information on there will help, puppy farms will just supply false info.

The education idea is the best.
 
Scaramanga said:
Extreme to say the least. I would pay it In a heart beat, but theres millions of people who cany afford to pay that that would give a perfectly good home to a dog and be a respectful owner. Money doesn’t solve everything.
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You're probably right, forget the expensive licence but there needs to be a system that shows commitment.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
You're probably right, forget the expensive licence but there needs to be a system that shows commitment.
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Yes, I go with all you say re dog owners and appreciate the £1,000 was just a suggested figure to improve control.

I'd extend any scheme to ensure greater accountability for dogs - especially dangerous dogs - as well as the dog owners.

The cost of the scheme would be met by dog owners and before anybody complains, I'd include an initiative that helped the poor/vulnerable to ensure decent folk who would be good owners were not priced out of ownership.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
There's nothing worse than exhaggerating.

I meant 'up to', I'm a dick.

All dogs do have to be microchipped, I don't think putting the breeders information on there will help, puppy farms will just supply false info.

The education idea is the best.
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The aim ought to be to eradicate puppy farming, but thats the difficulty with any attempts to try and license breeders and owners.... You risk driving people further underground.

There's loads of shit practice goes on though with existing so called "reputable breeders" in any case. In fact I'd say that many of the Pedigree "Show" Breeders are amongst the worst. Line breeding to exhaggerate certain features and producing one 'healthy' puppy out of a litter of 8, with the remainder having a range of deformities and/or potential health issues, then offloading them onto uneducated pet owners.

The point about maintaining a history of breeder and owner(s) through the chip is that, to my mind, the breeder ought to have a lifetime responsibility for the dogs that they breed / sell. Owners should be educated and encouraged to buy off licensed and reputable breeders only and to verify the details on the chip are valid etc.. There certainly ought to be more we could do in the this technological age to try and improve the long term well being of our pets and protect them from unscrupulous breeders / owners.

I think you're right education is the way forward, but the there will be wankers who find a way round any system and in truth they're this issue in any case. That's my biggest issue with expensive licenses for owners, because all you do is penilise the decent / responsible folk, because they'll be the ones who cough up for a license whilst the tossers won't...
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The aim ought to be to eradicate puppy farming, but thats the difficulty with any attempts to try and license breeders and owners.... You risk driving people further underground.

There's loads of shit practice goes on though with existing so called "reputable breeders" in any case. In fact I'd say that many of the Pedigree "Show" Breeders are amongst the worst. Line breeding to exhaggerate certain features and producing one 'healthy' puppy out of a litter of 8, with the remainder having a range of deformities and/or potential health issues, then offloading them onto uneducated pet owners.

The point about maintaining a history of breeder and owner(s) through the chip is that, to my mind, the breeder ought to have a lifetime responsibility for the dogs that they breed / sell. Owners should be educated and encouraged to buy off licensed and reputable breeders only and to verify the details on the chip are valid etc.. There certainly ought to be more we could do in the this technological age to try and improve the long term well being of our pets and protect them from unscrupulous breeders / owners.

I think you're right education is the way forward, but the there will be wankers who find a way round any system and in truth they're this issue in any case. That's my biggest issue with expensive licenses for owners, because all you do is penilise the decent / responsible folk, because they'll be the ones who cough up for a license whilst the tossers won't...
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Yeah, I've dropped the expensive license scheme idea, you were right.

Taking your point about pedigree breeders, you're right and the Kennel club and it's bloody stupid 'breed standards' have a lot to answer for.
 
Any serious intent to cause harm or abuse to the individual concerned in the article is no better than what she did herself.

Poor form 👎
 
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