Are the Tories corrupt?

kuriousoranj

kuriousoranj

Well-known member
Will the Tories come unstuck at the next election if it's proven they are shovelling literally billions of public money into the pockets of their corporate spiv mates through dodgy no-bid PPE contracts and their even dodgier privatised Track and Trace system. I wonder what else is being concealed behind the scenes?
Meanwhile they're outright refusing to spend a tiny fraction of those £billions on ensuring British kids don't go starving hungry over half-term and Christmas.
 
Probably not because they will get their mates in the media to bury reports, and shoehorn other mates into positions of influence in media organisations neutral or left leaning.

This lot make John Major's corrupt Tories look like choirboys.
 
The way they are using the pandemic to line their own pockets and those of their mates is totally sickening.

The latest is paying £7k a day to so called experts to sort out the mess left after their dodgy contract with Serco went tits up . . . full enquiry required.
 
Leither said:
The way they are using the pandemic to line their own pockets and those of their mates is totally sickening.

The latest is paying £7k a day to so called experts to sort out the mess left after their dodgy contract with Serco went tits up . . . full enquiry required.
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An enquiry would be good.

Prison time would be better 👍

I think the Home Secretary should order a full investigation. 😂
 

“When billions of pounds of public money is handed out to private companies, some of them with political connections but no experience in delivering medical supplies, ministers should be explaining why those companies were awarded the contracts."​


I think this will end in court. Green MP Caroline Lucas, Labour’s Debbie Abrahams and Liberal Democrat MP Layla Moran have filed a judicial review against the Government for breaching the law and its own guidance and argue that there are mounting concerns over the Government’s coronavirus procurement processes.
 
kuriousoranj said:
Will the Tories come unstuck at the next election if it's proven they are shovelling literally billions of public money into the pockets of their corporate spiv mates through dodgy no-bid PPE contracts and their even dodgier privatised Track and Trace system. I wonder what else is being concealed behind the scenes?
Meanwhile they're outright refusing to spend a tiny fraction of those £billions on ensuring British kids don't go starving hungry over half-term and Christmas.
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Is the pope a Catholic?
 
Id say corruption is and always will be a problem in Politics.
POWER Corrupts
So Yes there will be corruption rearing its ugly head.

Are UK Politicians some of the most corrupt on the planet?
Regardless of party I would say its a resounding NO
Even the hated Tories are nowhere near being the most corrupt in Europe
Im not a fan but as far as Worldwide political corruption goes they are virtually socialist choirboys.

So Please try harder or at least look at the big picture 🍺
Is your hatred for Politicians of one persuasion an unhealthy obsession?

Has your balance and judgement been corrupted by this? 🤪
 
To go back to the original post.
Are the Tories corrupt. Yes.
Are individual conservative polticians corrupt. Many are - yes. There are many however who probably are ethical.
We can then apply the exact same criteria to Labour, Lib dems, SNP, and every other political group in the UK, and I would hazard the statement that it would apply across the world.

Ethics are corrupted in the political systems that we have, sometimes simply due to the effects of negotiated compromise, sometimes because of systemic corruption that is built in, or has evolved in the system or, ethics are corrupted because of individual nefarious activity that is overlooked.

As much as I dislike Bojo and his cohorts (who are individually corrupt on numerous levels) I'm not sure this government is any more corrupt than the Blair government. Personally I think that Blair (and i think that there is good evidence for the opinion) was / is the most individually corrupt (morally, financially ideologically) individual in the history of British political leadership.

The system is broken, so that corruption on one level or another is a characterisic of normal, and could be said, good governance and is certainly a characteristic of good politics.
 
kuriousoranj said:

“When billions of pounds of public money is handed out to private companies, some of them with political connections but no experience in delivering medical supplies, ministers should be explaining why those companies were awarded the contracts."​


I think this will end in court. Green MP Caroline Lucas, Labour’s Debbie Abrahams and Liberal Democrat MP Layla Moran have filed a judicial review against the Government for breaching the law and its own guidance and argue that there are mounting concerns over the Government’s coronavirus procurement processes.
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Cue Lost Seasider in a source frenzy.
 
Management consultants on £25,000 a day. Just how is that justifiable? Raab gave it a go on breakfast TV and looked even more stupid than usual.
 
deary said:
Id say corruption is and always will be a problem in Politics.
POWER Corrupts
So Yes there will be corruption rearing its ugly head.

Are UK Politicians some of the most corrupt on the planet?
Regardless of party I would say its a resounding NO
Even the hated Tories are nowhere near being the most corrupt in Europe
Im not a fan but as far as Worldwide political corruption goes they are virtually socialist choirboys.

So Please try harder or at least look at the big picture 🍺
Is your hatred for Politicians of one persuasion an unhealthy obsession?

Has your balance and judgement been corrupted by this? 🤪
Click to expand...
The OP makes a very relevant point about potential corruption in our Government. That is an important issue.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
To go back to the original post.
Are the Tories corrupt. Yes.
Are individual conservative polticians corrupt. Many are - yes. There are many however who probably are ethical.
We can then apply the exact same criteria to Labour, Lib dems, SNP, and every other political group in the UK, and I would hazard the statement that it would apply across the world.

Ethics are corrupted in the political systems that we have, sometimes simply due to the effects of negotiated compromise, sometimes because of systemic corruption that is built in, or has evolved in the system or, ethics are corrupted because of individual nefarious activity that is overlooked.

As much as I dislike Bojo and his cohorts (who are individually corrupt on numerous levels) I'm not sure this government is any more corrupt than the Blair government. Personally I think that Blair (and i think that there is good evidence for the opinion) was / is the most individually corrupt (morally, financially ideologically) individual in the history of British political leadership.

The system is broken, so that corruption on one level or another is a characterisic of normal, and could be said, good governance and is certainly a characteristic of good politics.
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Even if that were true - and I don't think this level of openly obvious corruption in Government has been seen before - the OP is right to make an issue of it being about our current Government.
Questions about the tendency to corruption in Governments throughout history are worthy of academic consideration. But this is about our Government in the here and now.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Even if that were true - and I don't think this level of openly obvious corruption in Government has been seen before - the OP is right to make an issue of it being about our current Government.
Questions about the tendency to corruption in Governments throughout history are worthy of academic consideration. But this is about our Government in the here and now.
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Contracts awarded to favoured consulting groups, the rise of the outsourcing companies with contracts that guaranteed profits that they could never even hope to achieve in private sector bids, government and civil service positions being filled by favoured individuals who had long term relationships with senior government officials, was a fundamental part of the Blair regime. it is now just a part of government process, the only difference is that the current bunch of imbeciles are even worse at covering up thier corruption.

What i will say is that boris and the rest of cabinet are probably the most incompetent bunch to havce ever graced senior government office.
 
Wizaard said:
Management consultants on £25,000 a day. Just how is that justifiable? Raab gave it a go on breakfast TV and looked even more stupid than usual.
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I think that was for a team of 5 Wiz but still crazy money. Two of them were on £7K a day and the other 3 on a bit less. That's our money they are handing over to their mates. And still some on here defend them. 😡
 
Costero Poderoso said:
Contracts awarded to favoured consulting groups, the rise of the outsourcing companies with contracts that guaranteed profits that they could never even hope to achieve in private sector bids, government and civil service positions being filled by favoured individuals who had long term relationships with senior government officials, was a fundamental part of the Blair regime. it is now just a part of government process, the only difference is that the current bunch of imbeciles are even worse at covering up thier corruption.

What i will say is that boris and the rest of cabinet are probably the most incompetent bunch to havce ever graced senior government office.
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I accept all that you say. I witnessed it first hand and hated it. I stand by my point that corruption in Government needs to be stamped out and that can only be done by challenging the Government currently in office.
Lessons should have been learned from what happened in Blair's time - and Major's PPP/PFI ethos before it. But, as you say, it suited those in power to normalise the arrangements.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I accept all that you say. I witnessed it first hand and hated it. I stand by my point that corruption in Government needs to be stamped out and that can only be done by challenging the Government currently in office.
Lessons should have been learned from what happened in Blair's time - and Major's PPP/PFI ethos before it. But, as you say, it suited those in power to normalise the arrangements.
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We might have had similar experiences.

Lessons never get learnt though, and even the systems for accountability get corrupted. An established political party coming into power isn't going to make the changes that are required because the changes required would undermine the very nature of the political system that feeds the established parties and their routes to power.

I've worked on and run several governmental change programmes; for one country that was at one point considered to be in the top ten most corrupt countiries in the world, and another one in the top third of most corrupt. Their corruption is slightly different in that it permeates ordinary life, as well as government, but the way it (the first one) got fixed was through literally breaking the current system and rebuilding it from scratch, including the basic political system. I cant take credit for that but i have witnessed the effectiveness of it. As that country progressed economically though and they eventually took on more and more western influences, systemic corruption has reared its ugly head.
 
Leither said:
I think that was for a team of 5 Wiz but still crazy money. Two of them were on £7K a day and the other 3 on a bit less. That's our money they are handing over to their mates. And still some on here defend them. 😡
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its ridiculous, and its obviously being padded out, a managing partner at one of the big four consulting firms working at board level within an massive organisation would struggle to get paid that in the private sector.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
The OP makes a very relevant point about potential corruption in our Government. That is an important issue.
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Yes of course 66 but sometimes people cannot see the woods for the trees. With the greatest respect you are also rather staunch in your views or should that be disdain for the Tories. So you will come on that side of the fence. You are entitled to a viewpoint although its fair to say its one that perhaps at times lack balance.
Ive little time for most politicians the Tories have some absolute Whoppers but im certainly not gonna buy into Tory Devils, Labour Angels narrative that some want to perpetuate.
I would say that corrupt Politicians are a far bigger problem elsewhere. thats not to say the behaviour of those in the UK should not be scrutinised.

Costero makes valid points 👍 .
 
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It’s two-way corruption. Tony Blair, Theresa May and David Cameron, as ex-PMs, get paid £100,000 for turning up to a dinner for a couple of hours and making a 30 minute speech. Are they worth it? Are they fcuk. That’s what Bozo is looking forward to after enriching all his mates’ companies... Payback.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Follow the ideology

Great piece of real journalism from George Monbiot. You may like or dislike him, but his forensic presentation of the facts of links in money and ideology between all these players in Track and Trace, procurement, etc is irrefutable.

Wake up UK, they are taking us for mugs
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That goes way beyond disgusting. The Conservative Party is actively using the 'opportunity' of the Pandemic to featherbed it's friends in private business and to do continual harm to the NHS.
Traitors the lot of them.
 
I would say, the problem is that MP's are accountable to no one utill there is a General election then they fawn around the general public and hope they get their vote.... More fool us.... The general feeling of coruptness does appear to be atributed to the tories however (allegedly) because of toadyism, lies and general arse licking that their MP's seem to do.
 
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Tangerinemoss said:
Follow the ideology

Great piece of real journalism from George Monbiot. You may like or dislike him, but his forensic presentation of the facts of links in money and ideology between all these players in Track and Trace, procurement, etc is irrefutable.

Wake up UK, they are taking us for mugs
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Thanks for sharing . . . that Dido Harding sums up everything that is wrong at the top. Obviously incompetent people getting big pay for totally messing things up.
 
I can only go off 25 years experience in the NHS in both patient facing, wanky management and soul destroying procurement responsibilities but it's always been the case that if money can be made then regulation would have been introduced to make sure it was, under Major, Blair and Brown governments.

The difference since 2010 is that there's no open tendering process worthy of the name, the same connected companies win the same contracts at inflated values and any accountability is brushed away.

It's a ** shit storm of palm greasing, clap for the NHS? Fuck off, your money is pissed away and services are bare minimum to avoid any backlash.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Fact check for that article: https://fullfact.org/health/labour-serco-tweet/
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Thanks for the reply.

You have tried to derail Monbiot's article by picking on one aspect of a very comprehensive article, and setting a hare running. If you genuinely think that an organisation that has been tracing food poisoning and STDs for decades would be worse than an organisation with zero experience, I am sorry for you. Like saying Serco could manage BFC, no experience but thro money at them.

No comment on the web of mates, spouses and financiers in his article? Like I said earlier, that's because it is factual.
 
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