Ashes 5th test Official match thread

The frustration - again - being that if we'd had 100 more runs we would have them right under pressure here. We've been short of runs the whole series, one of the biggest failings that have cost us.
 
Mark_GT said:
The frustration - again - being that if we'd had 100 more runs we would have them right under pressure here. We've been short of runs the whole series, one of the biggest failings that have cost us.
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We have been 35/40% behind them at every stage. Runs. Ability. Brain. Everything.

We should have played a few proper warm up matches irrespective. Incredible we didn’t play or try to play quality opposition.

Tongue bowling tripe this over
 
Tongue injured I think. Bringing Carse on makes no sense. Surely go with spin and make them work for it. Yet another crap tactical decision, Stokes has made a few this series
 
And it's done. At least this was a half decent test match but we were always short. They'll now let McCullum and Key bluff their way through the coming year and the players will go back to the white ball. A massively disappointing campaign, we've been outclassed and outfought by the Australia reserves.
 
Mark_GT said:
The frustration - again - being that if we'd had 100 more runs we would have them right under pressure here. We've been short of runs the whole series, one of the biggest failings that have cost us.
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...if we had taken them catches we would have had them 100+ runs
 
Just glad it's finished to be honest. waking up in the early hours or barely sleeping because of the 'what if' factor has done me no good at all these last few weeks.
 
SeasideKurt said:
We have been 35/40% behind them at every stage. Runs. Ability. Brain. Everything.

We should have played a few proper warm up matches irrespective. Incredible we didn’t play or try to play quality opposition.

Tongue bowling tripe this over
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Before the series started I said we were totally underprepared.
 
It's going to be a very interesting few weeks coming up.

Seems McCullum is staying on provided he changes approach fom the rabbit in the headlights Bazbollux.

Stokes will be very interesting.
 
Wizaard said:
Before the series started I said we were totally underprepared.
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Hard to disagree regarding the lack of preparation. It's unfair on players (like Potts) to expect them to come in and play at Test level when they haven't play ANY cricket for months.
The big question here, is what is anyone able to do about it? Realistically, how many extra games can bit fitted into any touring schedule? It's not like other nations are doing things much differently to how England are doing things.
 
straightatthewall said:
Hard to disagree regarding the lack of preparation. It's unfair on players (like Potts) to expect them to come in and play at Test level when they haven't play ANY cricket for months.
The big question here, is what is anyone able to do about it? Realistically, how many extra games can bit fitted into any touring schedule? It's not like other nations are doing things much differently to how England are doing things.
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You make time for those extra games because they are important to the main event. And if that isn't important then you may as well do away with the main event.

What Eng have done is the same as BFC signing a player who hasn't kicked a ball in months in anger, yet isn't injured and expecting him to do well in a series of intense derby matches starting the day after signing.

No football fan, manager, player, chairman or tea lady would dream of starting that player until they were up to speed, so why is Cricket different, specifically Eng cricket.

ps post rushed but you get the idea.
 
fcblackpool said:
You make time for those extra games because they are important to the main event. And if that isn't important then you may as well do away with the main event.

What Eng have done is the same as BFC signing a player who hasn't kicked a ball in months in anger, yet isn't injured and expecting him to do well in a series of intense derby matches starting the day after signing.

No football fan, manager, player, chairman or tea lady would dream of starting that player until they were up to speed, so why is Cricket different, specifically Eng cricket.

ps post rushed but you get the idea.
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I totally get the situation and the absurdity of it, but it has to be viewed against the realities of the 'business' of cricket too. If England wanted to play a one-off Test pre the first Ashes Test then first and foremost, they need a side to play against. Unlikely to be a 'major' nation as they've got their matches and calendar sorted for 3 or 5 game series. The Windies would be out on geography alone, but they also had a series. Bangladesh then looks the most likely, but all those countries have made it known that staging Test cricket is a massive loss making exercise for them because nobody comes to watch.

The alternative is to go to Oz and play a state side like the old days, but you still need to get proper commitment from the ACB for that. If I were the ECB, I wouldn't be keen on giving the oppo a nice warm up match ahead of the big derby...

As said, not disagreeing with the intent. I just think its a harder puzzle to solve than people realise. Even removing the Hundred and getting more contracted players back into the red ball county game will come up against barriers because the Hundred is obviously generating good revenue that all involved need. The same for the Blast, where grounds are typically packed on barmy summer nights because it's a good 'product'.
Whereas the first class game will always be a massive loss making entity because of what it is - a pathway to the big games at Test level.

The bigger concern (for me) is the talent pool. Even when I was growing up, the number of lads who played the game in my school was tiny. Our team was made up of me and a couple of others who could 'play' and 6-8 lads who fancied a game but barely knew how to hold a bat and definitely couldn't bowl. That was 35+ years ago. I doubt it's got better since.
 
Terrible series. Root getting his tons down under, Bethell with that knock and Tongue establishing himself like he has are about the only positives I can think of and we've thoroughly deserved to get pasted. It's been a rough watch.

We need to ask some big questions. In the post-series interviews, I think we're starting to see a little disconnect between Stokes and McCullum, so I'd be interested to see how that transpires. McCullum needs to go for me. I don't think we have a better captain than Stokes, his poor series aside, but he's going to be 36 during the next Ashes and obviously struggling to put in a full shift for a whole series as it is...

I'm also just reading about Brook being fined for an altercation with a bouncer in NZ in what was pretty much our main Ashes prep (which we also got hammered in). I'm obviously not going to moan about players having a beer or whatever, but it's so obviously a big culture change is needed. Some of these players are more unlikeable than the Aussies which in itself is a travesty!
 
thefutureistangerine said:
Terrible series. Root getting his tons down under, Bethell with that knock and Tongue establishing himself like he has are about the only positives I can think of and we've thoroughly deserved to get pasted. It's been a rough watch.

We need to ask some big questions. In the post-series interviews, I think we're starting to see a little disconnect between Stokes and McCullum, so I'd be interested to see how that transpires. McCullum needs to go for me. I don't think we have a better captain than Stokes, his poor series aside, but he's going to be 36 during the next Ashes and obviously struggling to put in a full shift for a whole series as it is...

I'm also just reading about Brook being fined for an altercation with a bouncer in NZ in what was pretty much our main Ashes prep (which we also got hammered in). I'm obviously not going to moan about players having a beer or whatever, but it's so obviously a big culture change is needed. Some of these players are more unlikeable than the Aussies which in itself is a travesty!
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As said, I reckon this Brook story coming out is going to be a way of getting McCullum and Key out. It's bad enough that the captain feels its ok to go out on the piss the night before an international (or any professional game), but it's been made worse that those in charge felt it was OK to not strip him of the captaincy immediately AND try and hide it from the press - which was never going to work...

Story has to have been leaked. Stokes will be absolved from any blame as it's the white ball set up, which he is not part of. He'll stay as captain, which is right because he's the only choice and still one of our best players, although his body is obviously a major concern. He's clearly a fit bloke, but the injuries never go away.
 
Batting averages for the Ashes:

Stokes 18.4
Duckett 20.2
Jacks 20.7
Pope 20.8
Smith 23.4
Crawley 27.3

Whilst there have been some contentious decisions and bad dropped catches, above is the reason we lost so heavily. There were a few wayward bowling spells also but those batting averages are a disgrace!
 
McCullum in the post match interviews saying he "won't be told what to do". The arrogance is staggering. Sack him now and Key can go with him. If Stokes doesn't like it he should consider his choices, which lately have been very poor ones. Where is the accountability?
 
Mark_GT said:
McCullum in the post match interviews saying he "won't be told what to do". The arrogance is staggering. Sack him now and Key can go with him. If Stokes doesn't like it he should consider his choices, which lately have been very poor ones. Where is the accountability?
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Also need to re-instate fielding coaches. Around 20 dropped catches in this series had an impact. Also also, we need to adopt some off field discipline - Brook sounds like he can’t take a drink and on the eve of an important series his behaviour in NZ was appalling, ditto Duckett during the series.
 
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When it comes to tests against the top sides we are reliant on the batters battering the opposition and when they don’t it’s over.

Duckett not up to it
Crawley not up to it
Pope not up to it
Brooks not up to it
No spinners at all reallly
Poor fielding generally

Anyone battling at three and four is basically opening for England every time.
 
The Brook leak just about sums this lot up. There is no discipline, out on the lash the night before a really important game and then failing in that game really means that Brook should be stripped of his whit ball captaincy and his vice captain role for the test side and McCullum and Key need to go. Nothing wrong with attacking, aggressive cricket if you are able to knuckle down too when you have to. This lot only have one style and it's bolloxball. If you want to be a serious sportsman now you have to behave like one, gone are the days of 20 fags a day, drinking every night, if you want the privilege of being an elite sportsman you need to follow a certain code at all times, this lot don't follow it at all.
 
NewburyOne said:
Batting averages for the Ashes:

Stokes 18.4
Duckett 20.2
Jacks 20.7
Pope 20.8
Smith 23.4
Crawley 27.3

Whilst there have been some contentious decisions and bad dropped catches, above is the reason we lost so heavily. There were a few wayward bowling spells also but those batting averages are a disgrace!
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Spot on. The last game was all the proof you need. An extra 100 runs across 2 innings and England win the game. Said earlier in the thread. this will be the 3rd series out of the last 4 Ashes series in OZ where England has failed to score 400+ in ANY innings. This is the main reason we're behind the game all the time. It puts added pressure on the bowlers to go searching for wickets rather bowl to plans and creates added pressure in the field when every catch HAS to be taken.
 
hertfordseasider said:
The Brook leak just about sums this lot up. There is no discipline, out on the lash the night before a really important game and then failing in that game really means that Brook should be stripped of his whit ball captaincy and his vice captain role for the test side and McCullum and Key need to go. Nothing wrong with attacking, aggressive cricket if you are able to knuckle down too when you have to. This lot only have one style and it's bolloxball. If you want to be a serious sportsman now you have to behave like one, gone are the days of 20 fags a day, drinking every night, if you want the privilege of being an elite sportsman you need to follow a certain code at all times, this lot don't follow it at all.
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Imagine if it had been an England footballer doing the same, the media would have been all over the player, team and management. Key is the first that needs to go and can happily take McCullum with him.
 
TommyHutch said:
Also need to re-instate fielding coaches. Around 20 dropped catches in this series had an impact. Also also, we need to adopt some off field discipline - Brook sounds like he can’t take a drink and on the eve of an important series his behaviour in NZ was appalling, ditto Duckett during the series.
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Good point. What happened to Paul Collingwood?
 
Mark_GT said:
McCullum in the post match interviews saying he "won't be told what to do". The arrogance is staggering. Sack him now and Key can go with him. If Stokes doesn't like it he should consider his choices, which lately have been very poor ones. Where is the accountability?
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Ironically, McCullum himself once said in an interview: “If you can’t change a man, you change the man." The ECB might want to take heed.
 
straightatthewall said:
I totally get the situation and the absurdity of it, but it has to be viewed against the realities of the 'business' of cricket too. If England wanted to play a one-off Test pre the first Ashes Test then first and foremost, they need a side to play against. Unlikely to be a 'major' nation as they've got their matches and calendar sorted for 3 or 5 game series. The Windies would be out on geography alone, but they also had a series. Bangladesh then looks the most likely, but all those countries have made it known that staging Test cricket is a massive loss making exercise for them because nobody comes to watch.

The alternative is to go to Oz and play a state side like the old days, but you still need to get proper commitment from the ACB for that. If I were the ECB, I wouldn't be keen on giving the oppo a nice warm up match ahead of the big derby...

As said, not disagreeing with the intent. I just think its a harder puzzle to solve than people realise. Even removing the Hundred and getting more contracted players back into the red ball county game will come up against barriers because the Hundred is obviously generating good revenue that all involved need. The same for the Blast, where grounds are typically packed on barmy summer nights because it's a good 'product'.
Whereas the first class game will always be a massive loss making entity because of what it is - a pathway to the big games at Test level.

The bigger concern (for me) is the talent pool. Even when I was growing up, the number of lads who played the game in my school was tiny. Our team was made up of me and a couple of others who could 'play' and 6-8 lads who fancied a game but barely knew how to hold a bat and definitely couldn't bowl. That was 35+ years ago. I doubt it's got better since.
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You could start by letting them play CC, then figure out the larger puzzle, but I don't think it needs test matches, just 3 dayers against reasonable opposition who can hold a bat and can bowl a bit. That's what they used to do. I know they played against The Lions in a 3 day, but there was time to play more and against local opposition, even at the expense of juggling the NZ white ball.

Bottom line is the ECB don't seem to care much.

On the talent pool, I'd imagine it's a lot smaller in terms of proper cricket, not surprisingly.
 
Not like the good old days when Dick Barlow invented modern day Test Cricket whilst playing at Blackpool CC, and showed the world how to bowl with style and pinpoint accuracy

Layton gives the world The Ashes and it gets chucked back in our faces (rolls eyes and goes for a lie down)
 
I think we hadn't won a Test match in the last 18 before Baz came in and he transformed our team overnight by winning 12 out of 13 Tests and he was the best thing since sliced bread.

However where he has failed is stepping up to play the big guns of India and Australia and to beat these sides you need more than just raw talent, Baz is an extremely likeable and approachable bloke but i think where he fails is that he's too much of a soft touch with his players and as we know not all players have the discipline and mental toughness you need to succeed at the very top of the sport.

Take Sir Alex Ferguson, his management style demanded players leave no stone unturned in the quest for excellence and any off field nonsense is quickly extinguished as it effects the player and more importantly the team, he demanded his players adhere to a strict training regime and preparation for matches, clearly by reading some of the shenanigans that has gone on in firstly New Zealand in the pre Ashes build up and then in Noosa in the middle of the tour, the players have took the p!ss out of the England cricket team and let down thousands of England fans that have spent a fortune on travelling to Australia to support the team.

Not to mention us lot back in Blighty having to watch that dross until the early hours or wake up to more bad news once we logged on to our computers.

A major inquiry needs to happen to put right the wrongs of this tour and that starts at the top with the whole preparation for getting the team ready for the Ashes which no doubt falls with more senior people than Baz or Stokes who at one time wouldn't even select Ben Stokes for an Ashes tour because of a incident outside of a nightclub which he was charged with and subsequently found not guilty of, and at the time Ben was a better player than he is now, we have gone from one extreme to another.

Our next Test is New Zealand at home, they will no doubt come well prepared and looking to win the series, we have to decide who is up to it and who isn't, we have some excellent young players either in the team or pushing to get in the team who will no doubt be our main players to prise the Ashes off Australia here in 2027 so the job starts now and we need to much better than our 2025/26 lot did.
 
Raging_Bull said:
I think we hadn't won a Test match in the last 18 before Baz came in and he transformed our team overnight by winning 12 out of 13 Tests and he was the best thing since sliced bread.

However where he has failed is stepping up to play the big guns of India and Australia and to beat these sides you need more than just raw talent, Baz is an extremely likeable and approachable bloke but i think where he fails is that he's too much of a soft touch with his players and as we know not all players have the discipline and mental toughness you need to succeed at the very top of the sport.

Take Sir Alex Ferguson, his management style demanded players leave no stone unturned in the quest for excellence and any off field nonsense is quickly extinguished as it effects the player and more importantly the team, he demanded his players adhere to a strict training regime and preparation for matches, clearly by reading some of the shenanigans that has gone on in firstly New Zealand in the pre Ashes build up and then in Noosa in the middle of the tour, the players have took the p!ss out of the England cricket team and let down thousands of England fans that have spent a fortune on travelling to Australia to support the team.

Not to mention us lot back in Blighty having to watch that dross until the early hours or wake up to more bad news once we logged on to our computers.

A major inquiry needs to happen to put right the wrongs of this tour and that starts at the top with the whole preparation for getting the team ready for the Ashes which no doubt falls with more senior people than Baz or Stokes who at one time wouldn't even select Ben Stokes for an Ashes tour because of a incident outside of a nightclub which he was charged with and subsequently found not guilty of, and at the time Ben was a better player than he is now, we have gone from one extreme to another.

Our next Test is New Zealand at home, they will no doubt come well prepared and looking to win the series, we have to decide who is up to it and who isn't, we have some excellent young players either in the team or pushing to get in the team who will no doubt be our main players to prise the Ashes off Australia here in 2027 so the job starts now and we need to much better than our 2025/26 lot did.
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It beggars belief that anyone felt it was OK for Brook to be out the night before he captained his country in an international. I'm all for treating players like adults and understanding the need for them to let off steam, but there's literally nobody in professional sport (unless its darts) that would feel that a late night out (alcohol or not) is the right preparation for a game. It's like nobody involved has any sort of concept of how the body and mind work.

You'd think that a set up where players are given freedom to be themselves but also have 100% understanding of what is acceptable or and what is not, should not be too hard to instill. The players themselves should be looking at the situation and - if they see someone potentially stepping out of line - deal with it themselves.
 
straightatthewall said:
You'd think that a set up where players are given freedom to be themselves but also have 100% understanding of what is acceptable or and what is not, should not be too hard to instill. The players themselves should be looking at the situation and - if they see someone potentially stepping out of line - deal with it themselves.
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They've had a great opportunity to earn superstar wages with the Sky etc TV deals and you'd certainly expect the highest levels of discipline and application. If that particular tap is turned off then they could have no complaints, but personally I find cricket a turn off now and Test series are becoming a thing of the past.
 
straightatthewall said:
It beggars belief that anyone felt it was OK for Brook to be out the night before he captained his country in an international. I'm all for treating players like adults and understanding the need for them to let off steam, but there's literally nobody in professional sport (unless its darts) that would feel that a late night out (alcohol or not) is the right preparation for a game. It's like nobody involved has any sort of concept of how the body and mind work.

You'd think that a set up where players are given freedom to be themselves but also have 100% understanding of what is acceptable or and what is not, should not be too hard to instill. The players themselves should be looking at the situation and - if they see someone potentially stepping out of line - deal with it themselves.
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Spot on, imagine one of the United's players doing that under Fergie? his feet wouldn't touch the ground, as i mentioned much as Baz is a likeable guy and I bet the players love him, you cannot have players going out on the lash the night before playing for your country, it's totally unacceptable and disrespectful to the management, his team mates and millions of England fans around the world.
 
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