Astra Zeneca suspended

On the news just now, it seems like the EU are annoyed that we are not sending them any AstraZeneca.
How can they be when they won't use it? It sounds about right. Thank goodness for Brexit.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
UK government now saying there is about to be a significant reduction in AZ vaccines due to an import problem. Not been following politics recently but I thought the AZ vaccine was manufactured in the UK. Seems we have been getting them from the EU after all.

Would be a bit of a shame if they go unused in the EU due to attitudes against it when they would be used in the UK if allowed to be exported.
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I read today that the fact we can vaccinate all over 50's ahead of schedule was due to a large shipment of AZ from India of all places! Seems to me that production is all over the place. Strange that in the same day we've had an announcement that due to a large shipment we're going to be ahead of schedule for one age group, but a few hours later that another age group will be behind schedule. Some suggestions are it's because of the EU Comissions announcement yesterday, but it remains to be seen.

Also interestingly Dominic Cummings was giving evidence today on another matter, but mentioned how bad the procurement process was in the department of Health, they took it away from them and set up an independent task force...looks like that's changed since and has returned from BEIS to Department of Health - makes me wonder if that has anything to do with it...Hancock doesn't inspire confidence in the slightest.
 
I see lots of people are reading world news according to the Mail, Express, Sun etc. European countries have been super sensitive to some of the perceived problems that they believe may have arisen from the vaccine and so decided to stop using AZ for a short period while they get more data. Nothing to do with working against the UK. But of course, the British media paint a different picture! I’m sure that as the months and years pass by the EU will be blamed for all sorts of things that aren’t in the UK’s interest, irrespective of the facts.
 
SomersetSeasider said:
I see lots of people are reading world news according to the Mail, Express, Sun etc. European countries have been super sensitive to some of the perceived problems that they believe may have arisen from the vaccine and so decided to stop using AZ for a short period while they get more data. Nothing to do with working against the UK. But of course, the British media paint a different picture! I’m sure that as the months and years pass by the EU will be blamed for all sorts of things that aren’t in the UK’s interest, irrespective of the facts.
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It's St Patrick's day. April Fool's Day is a couple of weeks away.
 
20togo said:
Nonsense. We've developed a vaccine which is being rolled out to the residents of the UK. What should we be fighting for? The EU either want it or they don't. They either put lives first or they don't. At the moment they seem to want to put the politics first and that could well be costing many lives across Europe.Sure, our govt has made mistakes, some big ones, but not for the pettiness that the EU and it's major players are showing. An organisation now showing it's true colours and something you want to be part of.
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Not the EU, a couple of countries' leaders. We were told for years that all countries were vassal states. Clearly not.
 
SomersetSeasider said:
I see lots of people are reading world news according to the Mail, Express, Sun etc. European countries have been super sensitive to some of the perceived problems that they believe may have arisen from the vaccine and so decided to stop using AZ for a short period while they get more data. Nothing to do with working against the UK. But of course, the British media paint a different picture! I’m sure that as the months and years pass by the EU will be blamed for all sorts of things that aren’t in the UK’s interest, irrespective of the facts.
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Exactly.
 
SomersetSeasider said:
I see lots of people are reading world news according to the Mail, Express, Sun etc. European countries have been super sensitive to some of the perceived problems that they believe may have arisen from the vaccine and so decided to stop using AZ for a short period while they get more data. Nothing to do with working against the UK. But of course, the British media paint a different picture! I’m sure that as the months and years pass by the EU will be blamed for all sorts of things that aren’t in the UK’s interest, irrespective of the facts.
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So rather than criticise the EU for their "super sensitiveness" you choose to criticise the UK and the media. Typical loony left attitude. Meanwhile people across Europe will continue to die from Covid until no doubt this data will be collected and the roll out will resume as it was doing prior to the suspension. Politics over lives once again for the Remain brigade.
 
SomersetSeasider said:
I see lots of people are reading world news according to the Mail, Express, Sun etc. European countries have been super sensitive to some of the perceived problems that they believe may have arisen from the vaccine and so decided to stop using AZ for a short period while they get more data. Nothing to do with working against the UK. But of course, the British media paint a different picture! I’m sure that as the months and years pass by the EU will be blamed for all sorts of things that aren’t in the UK’s interest, irrespective of the facts.
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Except the exact same problems have been "experienced" with Pfizer and that hasn't been suspended.

Personally I think it's more hysteria than a direct attack on UK/AZ, but the hysteria stems from earlier attacks by the Commission on AZ, and by extension the UK so to an extent that's splitting hairs.
 
20togo said:
So rather than criticise the EU for their "super sensitiveness" you choose to criticise the UK and the media. Typical loony left attitude. Meanwhile people across Europe will continue to die from Covid until no doubt this data will be collected and the roll out will resume as it was doing prior to the suspension. Politics over lives once again for the Remain brigade.
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Aa someone who from the off has said there was nothing anyone could have done, ie fatalistic, let them die, politics over lives is somewhat rich.
 
Wizaard said:
Not the EU, a couple of countries' leaders. We were told for years that all countries were vassal states. Clearly not.
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Clearly are.Deny it all you want because that's what you Remainers do but of course it's the EU. The powet of Germany and France have exerted the pressure on the other nations within the framework of the EU. The all for one and one for all attitude is at play as long as you do what Germany and France say.
 
Wizaard said:
Aa someone who from the off has said there was nothing anyone could have done, ie fatalistic, let them die, politics over lives is somewhat rich.
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Nope absolute bull, you can go back to my posts a year back and I was making the same point about politics over lives. So nothing rich from me at all. A decision made by the politicians of Europe and the left wing remainers are trying to blame the British press. All about the politics for you rather than saying the countries should get on with rolling out the vaccine and SAVING LIVES.
 
20togo said:
Clearly are.Deny it all you want because that's what you Remainers do but of course it's the EU. The powet of Germany and France have exerted the pressure on the other nations within the framework of the EU. The all for one and one for all attitude is at play as long as you do what Germany and France say.
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Except most of the others didnt suspend and they've nearly all lifted it. Make no mistake, they've handled it badly, but you can't lump them all as an amorphous mass because every country has made their own decision, but that doesn't suit the RWNJ narrative.
 
20togo said:
Nope absolute bull, you can go back to my posts a year back and I was making the same point about politics over lives. So nothing rich from me at all. A decision made by the politicians of Europe and the left wing remainers are trying to blame the British press. All about the politics for you rather than saying the countries should get on with rolling out the vaccine and SAVING LIVES.
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You were saying it's already here and there was nothing anyone could do. Every post said it.
 
Wizaard said:
You were saying it's already here and there was nothing anyone could do. Every post said it.
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half truths,wiz, It was already here that's a fact i said mistakes would be made but it would be a case of trying to make as few as possible. But there were things I said that in hindsight we could have done better. A big mistake with care homes being one of them. And sadly that cost many lives. But one year down the line your position hasn't changed. All about the politics, all about the criticism of our decision [the majority] to leave the EU where yours and others bitterness shines thru like a beacon. Even now you can't come to admit that the EU have acted disgracefully in all this. Why? Because at the forefront of your mind it's all about the politics.

In your own words - every post says it.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
www.google.co.uk

Covid vaccines for England's under-50s delayed due to shortage

Jabs to be delayed by one month after NHS England admits ‘significant reduction’ in supply
www.google.co.uk www.google.co.uk

There are reports this morning that the roll out of the U.K. vaccination programme may be disrupted. Global problem apparently. Unconnected with the EU.
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Yet both drug companies state there are no issues. Strange situation.

news.sky.com

COVID-19: Pfizer and AstraZeneca deny domestic coronavirus vaccine shortage

The drug companies say they are on course to meet their delivery commitments, despite an NHS England warning of April shortages.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
Old_Laytonian said:
It seems that we don’t like too much positive news in this country so we have to look for a problem even if there isn’t one.
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Well apparently the NHS have said no one under 50 will be vaccinated during April because of the shortage. People are now wondering whether that will push back the end of lockdown.

I’d have thought those were reasonable questions to ask to be honest.
 
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20togo said:
So rather than criticise the EU for their "super sensitiveness" you choose to criticise the UK and the media. Typical loony left attitude. Meanwhile people across Europe will continue to die from Covid until no doubt this data will be collected and the roll out will resume as it was doing prior to the suspension. Politics over lives once again for the Remain brigade.
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If that’s how you want to interpret what I’ve said then so be it!
 
pooljimbo said:
Yet both drug companies state there are no issues. Strange situation.

news.sky.com

COVID-19: Pfizer and AstraZeneca deny domestic coronavirus vaccine shortage

The drug companies say they are on course to meet their delivery commitments, despite an NHS England warning of April shortages.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
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I don’t understand that either. The two statements seem to contradict each other.

www.google.co.uk

Jab shortages ‘due to AstraZeneca’s global supply chain’ - minister

An expected shortfall in vaccine supply is partly due to a delay in the delivery of five million doses from India
www.google.co.uk www.google.co.uk
 
This is a little worrying,

The government does not seem willing to give a clear explanation as to why there will be a shortage, and vaccinations for April are to be drastically reduced.

Hancock`s nebulous "lumpy supply" explanation yesterday sounded like an unconvincing holding comment, and Robert Jenrick was equally unforthcoming today when asked to explain exactly where the problem lay, and even as to which vaccine had the supply problem.

I don`t think the government are levelling with the public at the moment.

Also I see some NHS staff had letters yesterday informing them that the second jab time was going to be extended from 12 weeks to 14 weeks...
 
Old_Laytonian said:
It seems that we don’t like too much positive news in this country so we have to look for a problem even if there isn’t one.
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No one under 40 now getting the jab until after April is not how the plan was going, whichever way you spin it. Think there is a problem, we just haven't been told it. And I think it's logistics, rather than anything more conspiratorial, btw.
 
Wizaard said:
No one under 40 now getting the jab until after April is not how the plan was going, whichever way you spin it. Think there is a problem, we just haven't been told it. And I think it's logistics, rather than anything more conspiratorial, btw.
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I agree it’s probably down to logistics and doses being shared with other countries.

Although I suppose it’s only a matter of time before an anti vaxxer conspiracy theorist claims there’s a cover up and it’s really because lots of people are dying of blood clots.
 
Wizaard said:
No one under 40 now getting the jab until after April is not how the plan was going, whichever way you spin it. Think there is a problem, we just haven't been told it. And I think it's logistics, rather than anything more conspiratorial, btw.
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Govt acknowledges problem in getting vaccines from India. Says it's a four week delay but will not stop us meeting the rollout schedule. Time will tell.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Well apparently the NHS have said no one under 50 will be vaccinated during April because of the shortage. People are now wondering whether that will push back the end of lockdown.

I’d have thought those were reasonable questions to ask to be honest.
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Pretty reasonable but doesn't this cover 99.2 % of all UK deaths for Coronovirus? I'd suggest it would continue to damage the economy. At what point is the line drawn?
 
There are major logistics issues for 'dry' goods across the world at the moment. Freight container availability is limited and that has pushed pricing much higher to the extent that established exports from east to west are no longer viable for spot movements. Look at commodity prices for various products and you'll see a common theme of supply disruptions and inflation in commodity costs. Given the next volumes are coming from India, this is going to play a part.

There's realistically little the government can do to improve this in the short-term, but it also demonstrates their supposed success in the first phase of rollout had as much to do with proximity as anything else. I.E. we had the AZ vaccine on our doorstep and got first dibs on it. It was effectively a no-brainer as even this lot wouldn't be so stupid or greedy as to sell the home supply to other countries ahead of vaccinating as many people as they could in the initial rollout.

Of course, being out of the EU has undoubtedly helped. That won't always be the case, but clearly is for this.
 
SeasideKurt said:
Pretty reasonable but doesn't this cover 99.2 % of all UK deaths for Coronovirus? I'd suggest it would continue to damage the economy. At what point is the line drawn?
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I don’t disagree. It’s always been about trying to find a balance between the economy and public health. But I suppose people who ask whether relaxation of the lockdown should be pushed back will make the point that the current timetable was based on certain assumptions around vaccination levels. If those assumptions no longer apply how will that impact on the model?
 
I don't know if this has been posted but on the today programme this morning blame was laid at an Indian plant that is producing 1 billion doses of the AZ vaccine mainly for poorer countries. We had managed to procure 10 million of these for the UK (for delivery in the next few weeks) but there are production difficulties at the plant. According to the report we expect to receive 5 million of the jabs on time instead of 10 million.
The report also stated that none of our AZ supply is produced in the EU so they cannot interfere with supply of AZ. However Pfizer is produced in Belgium and they could embargo that but I was under the impression that this jab was used a lot less in the UK than AZ. I am really amazed at how badly the EU and European governments are handling this crisis, they have managed to undermine confidence in AZ in their countries and this will translate directly into deaths and longer, more damaging lockdowns. They are attempting to turn a contract dispute with a supplier into a political confrontation, it could be that AZ are trying to placate them by diverting some supply to the EU.
A third vaccine will come on stream after Easter (Novax?). We are doing well here but there are bound to be some bumps in the road. It is a fantastic effort to get all at risk groups vaccinated in the space of 3-4 months. The effect is reflected every day in the figures, this has been a great success for this government and I am glad that the UK seems to be taking a rational approach to vaccination. I had mine yesterday (AZ).
 
Tangojoe said:
Govt acknowledges problem in getting vaccines from India. Says it's a four week delay but will not stop us meeting the rollout schedule. Time will tell
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We have both posted the same answer but for some reason it hasn’t been read and taken in by some people...,,maybe too early in the morning for some to absorb.
 
straightatthewall said:
There are major logistics issues for 'dry' goods across the world at the moment. Freight container availability is limited and that has pushed pricing much higher to the extent that established exports from east to west are no longer viable for spot movements. Look at commodity prices for various products and you'll see a common theme of supply disruptions and inflation in commodity costs. Given the next volumes are coming from India, this is going to play a part.

There's realistically little the government can do to improve this in the short-term, but it also demonstrates their supposed success in the first phase of rollout had as much to do with proximity as anything else. I.E. we had the AZ vaccine on our doorstep and got first dibs on it. It was effectively a no-brainer as even this lot wouldn't be so stupid or greedy as to sell the home supply to other countries ahead of vaccinating as many people as they could in the initial rollout.

Of course, being out of the EU has undoubtedly helped. That won't always be the case, but clearly is for this.
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Not sure why there's a container shortage to be honest. Every field alongside the M62 has one with an advert on it 😉
 
Apparently in Germany there were 7 cases of a very rare type of thrombosis, 3 fatal, which lead to the AZ suspension from 1.6m vaccinations. 6 of the cases were females aged 20 to 50 and normally levels for this type of clotting would be 1. Symptoms developed between day 4 and 16 post vaccination.

I can't imagine there is a link between the above and the UK government announcement to delay under 50s for a month but you never know.

Should get the EMA or WHO views later today.
 
Towerpower99 said:
We have both posted the same answer but for some reason it hasn’t been read and taken in by some people...,,maybe too early in the morning for some to absorb.
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It isn’t so much that it was too early in the morning to absorb. More that it’s a bit more complicated than you suggest.

First, according to the BBC, Jenrick has said that neither a single factory nor a single country is responsible for the supply issues. The delay is only partly due to the plant in India, so there must be other factors as well?

Secondly, and confusingly, AZ are saying there is no disruption to domestic supply at all. That doesn’t seem to tally with the NHS announcement that no one under 50 will be vaccinated during April.
 
straightatthewall said:
There are major logistics issues for 'dry' goods across the world at the moment. Freight container availability is limited and that has pushed pricing much higher to the extent that established exports from east to west are no longer viable for spot movements. Look at commodity prices for various products and you'll see a common theme of supply disruptions and inflation in commodity costs. Given the next volumes are coming from India, this is going to play a part.

There's realistically little the government can do to improve this in the short-term, but it also demonstrates their supposed success in the first phase of rollout had as much to do with proximity as anything else. I.E. we had the AZ vaccine on our doorstep and got first dibs on it. It was effectively a no-brainer as even this lot wouldn't be so stupid or greedy as to sell the home supply to other countries ahead of vaccinating as many people as they could in the initial rollout.

Of course, being out of the EU has undoubtedly helped. That won't always be the case, but clearly is for this.
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I would imagine the vaccine would be air freighted. There is a shortage of air freight (due to Covid and reduction in pax flights) also but if transport was an issue I am pretty sure the RAF could offer a solution.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
It isn’t so much that it was too early in the morning to absorb. More that it’s a bit more complicated than you suggest.

First, according to the BBC, Jenrick has said that neither a single factory nor a single country is responsible for the supply issues. The delay is only partly due to the plant in India, so there must be other factors as well?

Secondly, and confusingly, AZ are saying there is no disruption to domestic supply at all. That doesn’t seem to tally with the NHS announcement that no one under 50 will be vaccinated during April.
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Both statements could be true. AZ could have committed to a certain number by a set date but have provided probable delivery dates ahead of those dates which the government have been using for planning purposes. AZ have now found they can't meet the probable dates but can still meet the contracted dates.

If AZ can deliver the Indian 5m doses by late April the July date for vaccinating all adults is not compromised. Still expecting government to beat that date as I believe that date is based upon 100 % take-up and the contracted delivery dates of vaccines.
 
bollieboy said:
Both statements could be true. AZ could have committed to a certain number by a set date but have provided probable delivery dates ahead of those dates which the government have been using for planning purposes. AZ have now found they can't meet the probable dates but can still meet the contracted dates.

If AZ can deliver the Indian 5m doses by late April the July date for vaccinating all adults is not compromised. Still expecting government to beat that date as I believe that date is based upon 100 % take-up and the contracted delivery dates of vaccines.
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All that could be true, but the point is we don’t know. All we have at the moment are statements that on first reading are contradictory.

As it now seems clear that the vaccination timetable is going to be disrupted, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to ask why? And also to ask whether that’ll impact on the timetable for relaxation of lockdown?
 
Just to add for any students of philosophy on here.
Is the German government's current dilemma a real life version of the trolley problem that is so often talked about in philosophical discussions?

The essence of the trolley problem illustrates why sometimes people (and governments it would seem) find it difficult to take the utilitarian approach (i.e the most good to the most people) in favour of not intervening as intervening in a problem implies responsibility for outcomes. So in this case, the intervention is the vaccine (which saves the most people) but the German government (currently) do not want to (maybe) risk the lives of a few from thrombosis. The numbers are very clear.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
It isn’t so much that it was too early in the morning to absorb. More that it’s a bit more complicated than you suggest.

First, according to the BBC, Jenrick has said that neither a single factory nor a single country is responsible for the supply issues. The delay is only partly due to the plant in India, so there must be other factors as well?

Secondly, and confusingly, AZ are saying there is no disruption to domestic supply at all. That doesn’t seem to tally with the NHS announcement that no one under 50 will be vaccinated during April.
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Mex I believe the UK were running approx 2weeks ahead of schedule with the Vaccine rollout and the Government were probably hoping to keep ahead ( Political Brownie points) but now that buffer may have been taken away but the promise of everyone receiving a vaccine offer by the end of July still stands as I see it.
 
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Delfino said:
Apparently in Germany there were 7 cases of a very rare type of thrombosis, 3 fatal, which lead to the AZ suspension from 1.6m vaccinations. 6 of the cases were females aged 20 to 50 and normally levels for this type of clotting would be 1. Symptoms developed between day 4 and 16 post vaccination.

I can't imagine there is a link between the above and the UK government announcement to delay under 50s for a month but you never know.

Should get the EMA or WHO views later today.
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That's interesting. Increased risk of thrombosis is linked to the contraceptive pill, I wonder if there is a link here (i.e. AZ + pill = amplified risk of thrombosis). Or it could be that the thrombosis is from an unconnected source (like the pill).
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Just to add for any students of philosophy on here.
Is the German government's current dilemma a real life version of the trolley problem that is so often talked about in philosophical discussions?

The essence of the trolley problem illustrates why sometimes people (and governments it would seem) find it difficult to take the utilitarian approach (i.e the most good to the most people) in favour of not intervening as intervening in a problem implies responsibility for outcomes. So in this case, the intervention is the vaccine (which saves the most people) but the German government (currently) do not want to (maybe) risk the lives of a few from thrombosis. The numbers are very clear.
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Many scientists agree as does the who and mhra. Think the concerns in Germany are around a fairly low risk to Covid subgroup but at a higher than average risk, albeit still very low, risk from the vaccine.

Think the guidance today will be to proceedbut with additional advice to monitor some new side effects è.g increasing bruising, increasing pain.
 
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