Ben Woodburn

tangysider

Well-known member
He has indicated he would like to stay beyond January. Hopefully Ballard feels the same.
When people are bemoaning some of the quality of our signings, I am sure they would not have expected internationals from the top end of the premiership being loaned
 
He has indicated he would like to stay beyond January. Hopefully Ballard feels the same.
When people are bemoaning some of the quality of our signings, I am sure they would not have expected internationals from the top end of the premiership being loaned
I thought Ballard was a season long loan anyway.
 
If they're in the team and performing it makes sense for them to stay for the season.

They might outlast the manager at this rate......
 
He has indicated he would like to stay beyond January. Hopefully Ballard feels the same.
When people are bemoaning some of the quality of our signings, I am sure they would not have expected internationals from the top end of the premiership being loaned

They can come from the National leagues for me as long as they help us win.

Come back with this kind of post when we are not rooted in the relegation spots.
 
They can come from the National leagues for me as long as they help us win.

Come back with this kind of post when we are not rooted in the relegation spots.
Point I am making is regardless of our league position, not all of our signings are sh*t. Critchley has not been blameless but I don't think the hysteria to get rid of him makes any sense this early in the season.
I think confidence is low at the moment and it needs a couple of clean sheets, and a couple of goals, for our team to start to blossom.
 
Living in Sheffield, Blades fans tell me Woodburn was much hyped early in his career but on loan here a couple of years ago he made little impact then got an ankle injury and they sent him back early .I hope he`s improved since then.
 
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Point I am making is regardless of our league position, not all of our signings are sh*t. Critchley has not been blameless but I don't think the hysteria to get rid of him makes any sense this early in the season.
I think confidence is low at the moment and it needs a couple of clean sheets, and a couple of goals, for our team to start to blossom.
Woodburn isn't match fit by the looks of it and Ballard has very little experience
 
Point I am making is regardless of our league position, not all of our signings are sh*t. Critchley has not been blameless but I don't think the hysteria to get rid of him makes any sense this early in the season.
I think confidence is low at the moment and it needs a couple of clean sheets, and a couple of goals, for our team to start to blossom.
The numerous posts about how hopeless all the signings have been are way off the mark. We have a group of young players struggling to find their feet in a system that still (worryingly) appears totally alien to them.
With the right coaching, system and belief there is absolutely no reason why the group we have can't turn this around.

Our fans have very short memories, look at what the appointment of Holloway did for a group of players who the season before had only just avoided relegation.
 
The numerous posts about how hopeless all the signings have been are way off the mark. We have a group of young players struggling to find their feet in a system that still (worryingly) appears totally alien to them.
With the right coaching, system and belief there is absolutely no reason why the group we have can't turn this around.

Our fans have very short memories, look at what the appointment of Holloway did for a group of players who the season before had only just avoided relegation.
Holloway had a very good squad and backing from VB

Never understood this myth that we were relegation fodder
 
He has indicated he would like to stay beyond January. Hopefully Ballard feels the same.
When people are bemoaning some of the quality of our signings, I am sure they would not have expected internationals from the top end of the premiership being loaned
They're still reserves, young and relatively inexperienced. Clearly Critchley doesn't want to be challenged by experienced players who will have an opinion on what is working and what's not.
 
as ive said before play to the strengths of the players and use a system that suits the players dont try to change a players style some of the best managers ever didnt have coaching badges they just knew how to get the best out of their players and instill belief into them
 
The league table suggests differently.
Whatever your (well publicised) thoughts of Holloway, it cannot be denied that he turned the around the careers of so many players who never in a million years would have thought it possible for them to play top flight football.

In hindsight it is easy to say they were good players, but when we were down in the relegation zone the usual suspects would have been writing most of them off as crap. They never learn.
 
The numerous posts about how hopeless all the signings have been are way off the mark. We have a group of young players struggling to find their feet in a system that still (worryingly) appears totally alien to them.
With the right coaching, system and belief there is absolutely no reason why the group we have can't turn this around.

Our fans have very short memories, look at what the appointment of Holloway did for a group of players who the season before had only just avoided relegation.
In fairness to Tony Parkes we had found some form at the end of the 2008/9 season and only lost one of the last 10 games. Holloway had a good base to build on.
 
In fairness to Tony Parkes we had found some form at the end of the 2008/9 season and only lost one of the last 10 games. Holloway had a good base to build on.
Which again backs up my point about what players are capable of with the right coaching, system & belief.
Not only is Critch being written off by some, so are the players.

As I said above, some people never learn.
 
Woodburn needs to be making runs into the penalty area, noticed on Tuesday his ability to draw a foul.
 
I don't think the players brought in are shit. Not at all. I think there is a lot of talent.

I do however think the rigid sticking to bringing in kids (and then playing them out of position) is costing us.

We are crying out for some older heads to lead and knit the squad together. But it isn't happening and so we continue to scrat around with a different 11 every week playing exactly the same way. A way that clearly isn't working. That Liverpool style of play cost hundreds of millions to get in the players to pull it off. It's clearly non transferable to untested young lads in the dog eat dog L1.
 
The league table suggests differently.
Whatever your (well publicised) thoughts of Holloway, it cannot be denied that he turned the around the careers of so many players who never in a million years would have thought it possible for them to play top flight football.

In hindsight it is easy to say they were good players, but when we were down in the relegation zone the usual suspects would have been writing most of them off as crap. They never learn.
Charlie Adam had been playing in the champions league for Rangers
 
I don't think the players brought in are shit. Not at all. I think there is a lot of talent.

I do however think the rigid sticking to bringing in kids (and then playing them out of position) is costing us.

We are crying out for some older heads to lead and knit the squad together. But it isn't happening and so we continue to scrat around with a different 11 every week playing exactly the same way. A way that clearly isn't working. That Liverpool style of play cost hundreds of millions to get in the players to pull it off. It's clearly non transferable to untested young lads in the dog eat dog L1.
Agree playing players out of position has cost us massively. You could argue that both Husband's sending offs have been due to being played out of position(if you want to be kind, to the bellend).
Thorniley must only have 1 leg to not be considered in that role.
You would hope Maxwell, Turton, Williams and Madine would be vocal and help out the younger players, but does not seem to happen.
The style of play needs changing to make us more solid 3 at the back and attacking full backs is the way I would go and we have the players to fit that
 
And yet found himself signing on loan and then permanently for a relegation threatened Championship team, who never in a million years would have thought that they would be playing in the Premier League.
I did as i backed Blackpool for promotion that season

I remember drinking champagne and rum with my winnings outside Wembley

We had a good squad
 
It's not that I don't have a clue, I'm just not that interested in you re-writing history to fit your narrative.
I'm not

I backed us for promotion as i thought we had a good team

Holloway then was different to the one who left us, i rated him for a season and a half

Then he started to believe his own hype making stupid tactical decisions and slagging the fans for being critical of his beloved Karl
 
To be fair, you had a spat with him at a game, just before he left we had started the season brilliantly but he wanted a couple of signings that the Stains scuppered and he lost heart. He clearly got on with Karl, maybe because he knew how to deal with him but had he been supported properly when we were in the PL and then after, we probably would have had another season or two in the PL. Fortunately, that never happened and the stains own greed led to their downfall thanks to VB.

I have said this before. Had I been Sadler and just bought the club I wouldn't have gone for grayson, I would have gone straight for Ollie and Charlie as player coach, but that's just me. We will never know if that would have worked or not, but I have a feeling they would both be still here in charge if he had.

Going back to the original points, I thought Ballard had an excellent debut on tuesday and I think Ekpetita is going to be a real asset. he is improving with every game. Woodburn looked like he needs a couple of weeks of training to get up to speed with the tactics, but his is a more complicated role than a centre back.

I don't think we will see Husband playing again unless we are desperate. I think NC wants to go with Gabriel & Garbutt as wing backs but there is a question mark over Gabriels defending abilities and Turton is not a wing back. If he wants to keep with a 433 he then needs cover defensively if the full backs are bombing forward so Williams or Dougall will be essential in the holding role.. My only concern with 433 is that playing wing backs leaves you exposed at the back so a 532 or 523 would work better with wing backs as you then have 3 central defenders.

we had a really good squad back in 2008 to 2012 and they gelled brilliantly. It was a mix of younger players and experience and some really shrewd purchases like Evatt, Barker, Charlie, Vaughan, Morell, Wes, GTF, Crainey, DJ, Dobbie, Baptiste, Brett etc., The NC way is never going to be like that, he has gone for young talent and I have to say that if he has his way Husband, Turton and Maxwell could all be on the sidelines soon so the team will be really young. It's a brave way to do things and he clearly believes in it. I am not convinced personally as I think we have missed out on signing some experience. Tony Parkes was instrumental in recruitment, he had been in coaching for years before he came to us and was far more experienced than NC and he didn't have all these shiny coaching badges, he had nous, a feel for the game and years in the PL, Championship and League 1 and was a decent player before that. NC is a classroom coach and then a developmental U18 and then U23 coach with no player CV to talk about. I know who I would rather have as coach for us out of those two.

However, SS has tied his sail to the mast and it is seen as a progressive appointment. It could be, but the more I think about it and look at the squad I think if it doesn't click and work then it will be an absolute car crash and we will be relegated by March.

I want NC to be brilliant, for SS to be vindicated, I want that more than anything but deep down I can see the red and blue lights heading for a tangled wreckage.
 
If results continue to disappoint, and we are in the bottom 6 at Xmas, hopefully Sadler will act. Surely the last thing he wants is a relegation battle culminating in relegation to league2.
 
To be fair, you had a spat with him at a game, just before he left we had started the season brilliantly but he wanted a couple of signings that the Stains scuppered and he lost heart. He clearly got on with Karl, maybe because he knew how to deal with him but had he been supported properly when we were in the PL and then after, we probably would have had another season or two in the PL. Fortunately, that never happened and the stains own greed led to their downfall thanks to VB.

I have said this before. Had I been Sadler and just bought the club I wouldn't have gone for grayson, I would have gone straight for Ollie and Charlie as player coach, but that's just me. We will never know if that would have worked or not, but I have a feeling they would both be still here in charge if he had.

Going back to the original points, I thought Ballard had an excellent debut on tuesday and I think Ekpetita is going to be a real asset. he is improving with every game. Woodburn looked like he needs a couple of weeks of training to get up to speed with the tactics, but his is a more complicated role than a centre back.

I don't think we will see Husband playing again unless we are desperate. I think NC wants to go with Gabriel & Garbutt as wing backs but there is a question mark over Gabriels defending abilities and Turton is not a wing back. If he wants to keep with a 433 he then needs cover defensively if the full backs are bombing forward so Williams or Dougall will be essential in the holding role.. My only concern with 433 is that playing wing backs leaves you exposed at the back so a 532 or 523 would work better with wing backs as you then have 3 central defenders.

we had a really good squad back in 2008 to 2012 and they gelled brilliantly. It was a mix of younger players and experience and some really shrewd purchases like Evatt, Barker, Charlie, Vaughan, Morell, Wes, GTF, Crainey, DJ, Dobbie, Baptiste, Brett etc., The NC way is never going to be like that, he has gone for young talent and I have to say that if he has his way Husband, Turton and Maxwell could all be on the sidelines soon so the team will be really young. It's a brave way to do things and he clearly believes in it. I am not convinced personally as I think we have missed out on signing some experience. Tony Parkes was instrumental in recruitment, he had been in coaching for years before he came to us and was far more experienced than NC and he didn't have all these shiny coaching badges, he had nous, a feel for the game and years in the PL, Championship and League 1 and was a decent player before that. NC is a classroom coach and then a developmental U18 and then U23 coach with no player CV to talk about. I know who I would rather have as coach for us out of those two.

However, SS has tied his sail to the mast and it is seen as a progressive appointment. It could be, but the more I think about it and look at the squad I think if it doesn't click and work then it will be an absolute car crash and we will be relegated by March.

I want NC to be brilliant, for SS to be vindicated, I want that more than anything but deep down I can see the red and blue lights heading for a tangled wreckage.
Just to say that NC is being called a novice despite decades of coaching experience. Tony Parkes had a few stints as caretaker at Blackburn but was otherwise just as much a novice at League 1 level with a background of coaching, not managing.
 
Just to say that NC is being called a novice despite decades of coaching experience. Tony Parkes had a few stints as caretaker at Blackburn but was otherwise just as much a novice at League 1 level with a background of coaching, not managing.

I thought NC was a coach, not a manager? I think that's pretty disingenuous to Tony Parkes, who was far more experienced than Critchley is. I want NC to succeed, I really do, I just have worries about whether he will or not. He needs to have time to get his tactics working but he needs some better results soon, which I think could be very close, it is important that he does well, we really don't want a managerial merry-go-round.
 
I thought NC was a coach, not a manager? I think that's pretty disingenuous to Tony Parkes, who was far more experienced than Critchley is. I want NC to succeed, I really do, I just have worries about whether he will or not. He needs to have time to get his tactics working but he needs some better results soon, which I think could be very close, it is important that he does well, we really don't want a managerial merry-go-round.
Agreed, the last thing we need right now is to sack Critch, get someone in that can’t work with the players we have and us being resigned to an almost certain relegation. We have to be patient with this one because we have built the entire team around his plans and we haven’t seen yet what I’d class as Critchley’s final first team. We’ve missed lots of players so far this year and they’re all just becoming available again.
 
The wage bill when we got promoted to the prem was 4.5 mill, if I recall correctly. Doubled though after promotion bonuses. This is hardly good backing in the Championship
 
I thought NC was a coach, not a manager? I think that's pretty disingenuous to Tony Parkes, who was far more experienced than Critchley is. I want NC to succeed, I really do, I just have worries about whether he will or not. He needs to have time to get his tactics working but he needs some better results soon, which I think could be very close, it is important that he does well, we really don't want a managerial merry-go-round.
Not at all. Parkes had no more experience of managing at League level than Critchley. When he took on the role, each time he knew he'd be doing 4 or 5 games at most. Other than that he had no more responsibility than Critchley, possibly less.
 
Not at all. Parkes had no more experience of managing at League level than Critchley. When he took on the role, each time he knew he'd be doing 4 or 5 games at most. Other than that he had no more responsibility than Critchley, possibly less.
I think you're missing my point or I'm not making it very well. Parkes and Critchley are/were both coaches, I realise Parkes didn't really manage teams, he was a coach, but I thought that is what Critchley is, he is head coach, he isn't the manager, it's this new fangled bullshit they like to come up with and as far as coaching experience and knowing players I would put parkes head and shoulders above Critchley. I just hope NC's youngsters repay his faith and he repays SS's faith.
 
I think you're missing my point or I'm not making it very well. Parkes and Critchley are/were both coaches, I realise Parkes didn't really manage teams, he was a coach, but I thought that is what Critchley is, he is head coach, he isn't the manager, it's this new fangled bullshit they like to come up with and as far as coaching experience and knowing players I would put parkes head and shoulders above Critchley. I just hope NC's youngsters repay his faith and he repays SS's faith.
He might be labelled a coach, but he's now responsible for the team on match days. Call it what you want, but I'd say hes managing us.
 
Not at all. Parkes had no more experience of managing at League level than Critchley. When he took on the role, each time he knew he'd be doing 4 or 5 games at most. Other than that he had no more responsibility than Critchley, possibly less.


NC has only really been around under 23 & under 18 football so before he got the job i doubt he has seen many LG1 players or games so is at a massive disadvantage to TP in that respect.
 
He might be labelled a coach, but he's now responsible for the team on match days. Call it what you want, but I'd say hes managing us.

Don't get me wrong Wiz, I love NC's style of play, it is great to watch if not very frustrating at the moment and if/hen it clicks and we create lots of chances then I'm sure we will be fine. But he has chosen a risky strategy in my opinion and I hope he hasn't put all his eggs in one basket. He knows youth football and up and coming players, Parkes knew footballers of all ages and as someone else said, for all the disgusting faults the Stains had, Karl, more often than not, picked pretty decent managers (we won't talk about Hendry!!)

NC is an exciting but risky appointment and it will either work really well after initial teething problems or it will just not get going and SS will know by Christmas if it is going to work or not. I will be desperately sad if it doesn't because I really like NC an listening to him and his intentions and ideals are great.
 
Don't get me wrong Wiz, I love NC's style of play, it is great to watch if not very frustrating at the moment and if/hen it clicks and we create lots of chances then I'm sure we will be fine. But he has chosen a risky strategy in my opinion and I hope he hasn't put all his eggs in one basket. He knows youth football and up and coming players, Parkes knew footballers of all ages and as someone else said, for all the disgusting faults the Stains had, Karl, more often than not, picked pretty decent managers (we won't talk about Hendry!!)

NC is an exciting but risky appointment and it will either work really well after initial teething problems or it will just not get going and SS will know by Christmas if it is going to work or not. I will be desperately sad if it doesn't because I really like NC an listening to him and his intentions and ideals are great.
We have to stick with it or the cycle just begins again. Impatience is partly because it's always that way and also because we missed 7 months so want instant gratification.
 
As a minimum, NC needs to revise the formation and coach the players into getting forward quicker, better distribution in the final third, and far more shots on goal per game. All of which can and should be achieved with the current squad. He needs to draw that out of them. It’s what he’s getting paid for after all.
 
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