Bowler - I'm not sure

20togo said:
It's a simple question. How easy do you think it is to make a pass if you are being tightly marked by two or three players? Or are you suggesting it's his fault that he's being tightly marked? Just maybe, and here's a thought, that's the respect the opposition managers have for him and what he's capable of.
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I'm not sure whether I'm not explaining myself very well or not understanding what you are getting at.
I don't think Josh makes life easy for himself because he has poor decision making. Perhaps if he sees 3 players heading towards him he should look to pass the ball to one of the 2 players that won't be marked before they surround him.
The bottom line is currently we are not getting the best out of Bowler and I think Critch realises that with his intermittent use of him.
I would have brought him on today but he probably would have been my last sub.
 
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Dave62 said:
No need for the sorry, you're entitled to your opinion gfg, and given Josh's relatively poor run of form I can understand it in a way.
But even if the opposition work it out, they often do so by sticking 2 men on him (sometimes 3), and although they might know what's coming, you can't always do much when a player is running at you at pace and skillfully cutting in between 2 markers. That said, I realise he's got his "end product" issues and he has not played so well lately.

I agree with 20's in that he needs a break from games, and also time on the training ground on the areas I mentioned in my initial post. I disagree with an earlier post that a winger doesn't need to tackle. I think it's an essential part of a high press !
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I agree to a certain extent, until you get to “ skillfully cutting in between 2 markers “. That’s the whole point, he doesn’t, he either runs into them and loses possession or he tricks himself and loses possession. If he occasionally varied his method it may give better results, hence my use of one trick pony. 👍
 
We've all seen him cause teams problems so he's not completely useless, he's just had a drop off in form, it happens!

Some of our best players haven't always had it their way but we have given them time and they've developed brilliantly, Demi and Gabriel are different players to the start of last season, Yates had a poor start and went on to bag 20 goals. Sometimes we need to accept that these players are finding their way in the game and aren't the finished article, Josh has bags of potential and is only 22.
 
To be honest , I mean, the not tracking back or working hard is a bit ridiculous. Why can't he?, I suspect if he doesn't start soon he'll be in league one within 1-2 years as you can't afford to carry a player like that at this level unless he's Harry Wilson or something.

Definitely capable of special things but we have this every week with him, if he doesn't score or assist or "cause havoc" this will always be brought up and if he goes 5-10 games without creating some magic he'll struggle for game time.
 
Goforgoal said:
I agree to a certain extent, until you get to “ skillfully cutting in between 2 markers “. That’s the whole point, he doesn’t, he either runs into them and loses possession or he tricks himself and loses possession. If he occasionally varied his method it may give better results, hence my use of one trick pony. 👍
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Nah can't agree with that. When he's on form he's very good at cutting inside between defenders. At the moment though, he's miles off form and his first touch is poor. Go and have a look at the Fulham goal.
 
My big issue with him is that he makes too many bad decision, often running into traffic when there are players in space. I also think he's quite a static player, wanting the ball at his feet to run at players. Thought Mitchell was causing the yim yams problems. A slightly odd subbing for me.
 
20togo said:
Nah can't agree with that. When he's on form he's very good at cutting inside between defenders. At the moment though, he's miles off form and his first touch is poor.
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So why keep playing him even as a sub. We can’t keep carrying him waiting for him to regain some form. This is one of the penalties for not having a reserve team.
 
Goforgoal said:
So why keep playing him even as a sub. We can’t keep carrying him waiting for him to regain some form. This is one of the penalties for not having a reserve team.
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Well as I've said I wouldn't be playing him at the mo, maybe even as a sub too. That said, Mitchell doesn't convince me either so I wouldn't play either of them. We are currently not creating chances and we are not scoring goals. So I'd just go with the one wide man in Anderson and get Lavery or Yates in alongside Madine. But it's up to Critch isn't it? Suggest you take it up with him as he clearly sees more in Bowler than you do.
 
20togo said:
Of course, and as I acknowledge he's in a bad run of form at the moment and needs a break from playing. That said, Critch is the best judge of that.
But once again, here we have so called Blackpool fans who can't wait to stick the knife into a young player who has an incredible amount of talent.
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Fair point… I’ve no interest in sticking the knife in… He’s a young lad and an exceptional talent… It’s just not quite going for him at the minute…👍
 
Just to address a point made, he’s not a young lad, he’s 22. He’s been coached at Everton for 4 years and played a good number of games at Hull. He’s had plenty of chances at Pool, and he’s been consistently poor in his all-round game. He doesn’t need apologists on here, he needs to up his game and work rate.

Again, he is not to blame for today’s result, and it would be unfair to claim he was.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
Just to address a point made, he’s not a young lad, he’s 22. He’s been coached at Everton for 4 years and played a good number of games at Hull. He’s had plenty of chances at Pool, and he’s been consistently poor in his all-round game. He doesn’t need apologists on here, he needs to up his game and work rate.

Again, he is not to blame for today’s result, and it would be unfair to claim he was.
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He's young in terms of his experience at the level he's playing at. Or is that not relevant?
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
Just to address a point made, he’s not a young lad, he’s 22. He’s been coached at Everton for 4 years and played a good number of games at Hull. He’s had plenty of chances at Pool, and he’s been consistently poor in his all-round game. He doesn’t need apologists on here, he needs to up his game and work rate.

Again, he is not to blame for today’s result, and it would be unfair to claim he was.
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Disagree that 22 years of age isn't young in today's game and in life in general. He's in his second year of senior football and you'd expect him to peak around 28-30.
 
I don't think anyone on this thread would argue that he's not a threat going forward and that he is one of our best attacking players... on his day... *sigh*

The issue is that he lacks two big elements to his game:

  • Tracking back (even just at given moments when the pressure's on)
  • End product

We can't keep ignoring these two huge issues which are partly costing us points and instead discussing what a great dribbler he is. Someone alleged that no one offers to help but I disagree, he has, more often than not, a pass on but instead decides to take on his man (men)... rightly or wrongly.

What we want to see now is him working on sorting those issues. No one expects him to be Cafu in the defending department and Xavi in the attacking by Luton next week, but we want to see some effort and less arm-waving.

I'm sure we'll give him every chance, but if he continues to fall short on these issues then how long does he keep being picked most weeks? I really hope he turns it around because he can be absolutely fantastic!

UTP
 
TheRealKingKenny said:
Disagree that 22 years of age isn't young in today's game and in life in general. He's in his second year of senior football and you'd expect him to peak around 28-30.
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I’d expect him to be learning on the job, improving and trying to eradicate the flaws in his game. Only he is to blame for running into defenders and giving the ball away. Only he is blame for not having an end product. Only he is to blame for poor work rate and not tracking.

I want him to succeed, but we are a better team without him.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I thought Mitchell had a decent game…

I also thought Bowler looked OK going forward and caused them problems…

Dale…. I’m not sure about
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Mitchell was excellent today, he has pace and he is a cleverer player than Bowler he is also a 100 times better at tracking back and supporting the left back, which he did really well today. Bowler has no defensive qualities whatsoever and he is a luxury at this point in time. Dale doesn't look to have any pace at all and he doesn't seem that skilful either, he isn't a patch on Mitchell. I would play Anderson or Gabriel ahead of Dale.

We are and have been crying out for a proper creative, attacking midfielder, we have been lacking for 2 years, Carey is definitely going to be good enough but we need someone who has some experience and can hit the ground running. I think we set up to keep a clean sheet and the goalscoring side of the tactics is not quite there yet. We have some decent strikers but they need the service, we didn't test their keeper at all today and I thought Birmingham were the worst team we have played, probably all season yet we got beaten.

We are very close to a great squad but we are still missing 2 or 3 players to really push on and I hope we get closer to that in January.

I can't believe we lost that today, we should have murdered them.
 
hertfordseasider said:
Mitchell was excellent today, he has pace and he is a cleverer player than Bowler he is also a 100 times better at tracking back and supporting the left back, which he did really well today. Bowler has no defensive qualities whatsoever and he is a luxury at this point in time. Dale doesn't look to have any pace at all and he doesn't seem that skilful either, he isn't a patch on Mitchell. I would play Anderson or Gabriel ahead of Dale.

We are and have been crying out for a proper creative, attacking midfielder, we have been lacking for 2 years, Carey is definitely going to be good enough but we need someone who has some experience and can hit the ground running. I think we set up to keep a clean sheet and the goalscoring side of the tactics is not quite there yet. We have some decent strikers but they need the service, we didn't test their keeper at all today and I thought Birmingham were the worst team we have played, probably all season yet we got beaten.

We are very close to a great squad but we are still missing 2 or 3 players to really push on and I hope we get closer to that in January.

I can't believe we lost that today, we should have murdered them.
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Just a small point.
Mitchell played on the right and supported Sterling.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
I’d expect him to be learning on the job, improving and trying to eradicate the flaws in his game. Only he is to blame for running into defenders and giving the ball away. Only he is blame for not having an end product. Only he is to blame for poor work rate and not tracking.

I want him to succeed, but we are a better team without him.
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I expect that from him too, but I don't expect him to be the finished article at 22 and I think he has enough potential us to persevere with him. Obviously he needs to improve and I wouldn't have him starting at the moment and I wouldn't have brought him on when Critch did because I thought Demi was having a good game.

I don't have a problem with his work rate because I have seen him tracking back and working hard on numerous occasions and personally think it's a bit of a myth that he doesn't work hard. He absolutely needs to work on his end product and final ball but I want him to keep running at players and accept that he's not going to beat his man every time, it scares defenders and no full back will enjoy playing against him.

I agree with you about us being a better team without him because Demi is currently playing better, and I totally get that he can be very frustrating, I just don't want to write him off yet because he could be a special player and he offers the squad something different.
 
20togo said:
Don't you think it would help Bowler if he actually got some help off other players. Players give him the ball and expect him to do it all. Very few, especially inside, try and get close to him so he can actually give them a pass. And if as you acknowledge he's got two or three players around him, don't yu think that makes any pass he tries to make a bit harder. Not sure you actually thought about or considered that! Watch it. He gets pretty much no help whatsoever.
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Yeah we used to have a winger in our Kirkham & Wesham team in the North West Counties league who was often double marked because he was shit hot. What he did in that instance was play the ball to a team mate who would spread play to other areas of the pitch to unmarked players. We scored plenty of goals that way. Bowler had Sterling behind him plenty of times to pass to.

Hope this helps you realise I know plenty about playing football, formations, systems of play etc Have a good Saturday night 👍🏻
 
Pauls_Boutique said:
Yeah we used to have a winger in our Kirkham & Wesham team in the North West Counties league who was often double marked because he was shit hot. What he did in that instance was play the ball to a team mate who would spread play to other areas of the pitch to unmarked players. We scored plenty of goals that way. Bowler had Sterling behind him plenty of times to pass to.

Hope this helps you realise I know plenty about playing football, formations, systems of play etc Have a good Saturday night 👍🏻
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...and if you read my post, I did say -"especially inside". And I stick by that. In fact i've been saying it for a good while now. We don't get players close to and supporting Bowler. Especially in the forward areas of the pitch.
 
20togo said:
...and if you read my post, I did say -"especially inside". And I stick by that. In fact i've been saying it for a good while now. We don't get players close to and supporting Bowler. Especially in the forward areas of the pitch.
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Probs don’t disagree with you there. He had the opportunity to go back to Sterling a lot but he went running into dead ends.

I’m not giving up on him, and I believe in the coach we have to sort him out, but he does need to start producing.
 
He will only ever keep going forwards I think…he’s never going to be interested in developing a more generous approach to team play.
 
Pauls_Boutique said:
Probs don’t disagree with you there. He had the opportunity to go back to Sterling a lot but he went running into dead ends.

I’m not giving up on him, and I believe in the coach we have to sort him out, but he does need to start producing.
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He's not producing now and hasn't been since he came on at Reading and is why he needs a rest. But personally, I'm not [yet] a fan of Mitchell as an attacking player so if Critch wants to play with two inverted wingers one of them will have to. And Bowlers big asset is his pace, ability to beat players, and get the ball down the other end of the pitch. It's that, that when he's on form that gets you out of your seat. Not his ability to knock a two or three yard ball back to either Gabriel or Sterling. I still maintain that our central players don't get close enough to him though. But of course he has to find the right balance and at the moment his form is suffering because he's not doing that.i
 
Goforgoal said:
Less Stan Mathews and more Stan Laurel because he thinks he’s fooling the opposition but mostly he’s fooling himself.
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That's a bit harsh on Mr Laurel who was , quite rightly, acclaimed as a comic genius and way ahead of his time . An exceptional; player within his artform as it were.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I really want to say yes. However, to say yes about a man who has a limited role on the pitch, he's got to be brilliant at it. At the moment, Bowler is no Stanley Matthews.
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I’ve watched him a lot since he first played.
For me, he’s a bit of a luxury player and also seems to be very very selfish.
I don’t know, maybe he’s a lovely caring honest guy lol, but when he’s on the pitch it’s as though because he’s created a chance, he must score it. Then when a good pass is on, he “fluffs his lines” and makes mistakes. He must be very hard to coach, I mean what do you do? Tell him to keep doing this? Opposition teams will VERY QUICKLY work out that he doesn’t pass much, and as has been seen recently, he has 2, sometimes 3 on him and then gets crowded out.

He also seems to have a phobia of actually challenging for anything at all. Against WBA a ball went into the box from the left and instead of trying to get on the end of it, he watched it get headed away by a WBA player about a metre away from him. He also completely and blatantly gave up on tracking back for a chance they had second half, from which they very nearly scored.

I couldn’t go today, but from what I’ve heard it’s more of the same, and he isn’t working as a team player yet….

He’s gotta be one of the most talented players I’ve seen at bloomers in a while, but at the moment he’s his own worst enemy.

Thankfully we’ve one of the best coaches in the country for this sort of thing. Totally different player but I remember Danny Shittu when he played for us was this raw, but exceptionally talented player who just needed a tweak here n there.
Fingers crossed, Josh will be one of those types.
🍊
 
Adams Kebab said:
Just for balance.

Bowler did more than Dale offensively in his cameo.

He started off really well had our best chance, but granted then lost the ball regularly. He probably did more than Mitchell too. But no threads on these. It’s weird this obsession with him.

He’s a winger, he doesn’t need to be good at putting tackles in.
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Demi and Dale - I think most of us know what we are going to get when they go out on the pitch. They are decent, but not setting the world alight.
Josh can - and that’s why the threads because we can all see how good he can be.
Regards tackling, I think the point being made was that he doesn’t do ANYTHING physical.

Getting him used to tackling more and using his body to shield the ball etc, will mean he’s more attuned to realising that he’s not made of glass and that he can try and win a header. He seems to almost duck when the ball is in the air near him.
Maybe he just needs one of those helmets that Olympic boxers wear? 😂
 
Insider said:
So imagine you've two or three players right around you, say within a yard or so. How easy do you think it is to make a pass without one of those players intercepting it?"
I think you need to ask Josh that question because it's one of his faults, as is his decision making about whether or not its the right decision.
Yes he is having a poor run of form and I just get the impression his teammates are also a little bit frustrated with him.
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Keshi is a very unselfish player, and it shows when he gives the ball to others who score, yet when Josh has it he has on about 3-4 occasions had Keshi right next to him screaming for the ball.
When I played (albeit I wasn’t great), I was always very unselfish in those situations, I got more of a buzz passing for someone else to score, than me scoring. Although that was mostly because I just twatted the fuck out of the ball in the hope it took the gk with it 😂
 
I can’t see Critchley making that substitution again in a hurry. Mitchell was one of the best players on the pitch. If he playe Bowler in that position, he needs somebody else to provide cover when the ball breaks into our half, which negates Bowler’s strength which is to take 2 or 3 opposition players with him.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Obviously, Mitchell tackled back, which Bowler didn't. You would know that though, no?
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Ok so Mitchell was on for 68 mins and Bowler for 22 mins.

Your best point is that our attacking right winger tackled back better. Brilliant.

I don’t know about you but I would prefer our attacking right winger to effect the game more offensively than defensively, which of course Bowler did. Granted he made some poor choices after his best bits but it’s an undeniable fact he created more.

Which is my point throughout.

I am guessing you wouldn’t know that though, no? Which is why I’m explaining it for you.

This could solve the Messi v Ronaldo debate once and for all… which one tackles back better? Deal breaker.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Ok so Mitchell was on for 68 mins and Bowler for 22 mins.

Your best point is that our attacking right winger tackled back better. Brilliant.

I don’t know about you but I would prefer our attacking right winger to effect the game more offensively than defensively, which of course Bowler did. Granted he made some poor choices after his best bits but it’s an undeniable fact he created more.

Which is my point throughout.

I am guessing you wouldn’t know that though, no? Which is why I’m explaining it for you.

This could solve the Messi v Ronaldo debate once and for all… which one tackles back better? Deal breaker.
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Go to the O/P for clarity of what I'm saying.
 
My initial impression of him was "he'll frustrate" and "he's a bit of Martin Bullock"

I feel as if, so far, I'm reasonably justified in making those comments after his first game.

Lad is incredibly exciting if he's on it. If he's not he actively irritates me. The problem is, he does serve a function in giving us a way through defences that we struggle to replicate without him.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Ok so Mitchell was on for 68 mins and Bowler for 22 mins.

Your best point is that our attacking right winger tackled back better. Brilliant.

I don’t know about you but I would prefer our attacking right winger to effect the game more offensively than defensively, which of course Bowler did. Granted he made some poor choices after his best bits but it’s an undeniable fact he created more.

Which is my point throughout.

I am guessing you wouldn’t know that though, no? Which is why I’m explaining it for you.

This could solve the Messi v Ronaldo debate once and for all… which one tackles back better? Deal breaker.
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Bowler had a massive impact on the game….. it was his ** about out by the corner flag, being neither use nor ornament that played their goal scorer onside! Had Mitchell still been on I can bet that wouldn’t of happened as he would have been in a proper position. Mitchell is a much cleverer player than Bowler and is a threat going forward but also tracks back and defends. When Bowler is in the right frame of mind he is brilliant at going past defenders and the ball sticks to his feet like glue, but he has no end product so unless he adds plenty more to his game those flashes of brilliance are meaningless and he is a luxury we can’t afford. It will be interesting to see if Critch can coach him to be a better player.
 
hertfordseasider said:
Bowler had a massive impact on the game….. it was his ** about out by the corner flag, being neither use nor ornament that played their goal scorer onside! Had Mitchell still been on I can bet that wouldn’t of happened as he would have been in a proper position. Mitchell is a much cleverer player than Bowler and is a threat going forward but also tracks back and defends. When Bowler is in the right frame of mind he is brilliant at going past defenders and the ball sticks to his feet like glue, but he has no end product so unless he adds plenty more to his game those flashes of brilliance are meaningless and he is a luxury we can’t afford. It will be interesting to see if Critch can coach him to be a better player.
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you over-rate Mitchell to put down Bowler. Bowler is poor at the moment, I don't dispute that but Mitchell is certainly not pulling up any trees either. He created the square toot of fcuk all yesterday. And like Bowler he's in the team to be creative and the fact is he wasn't.
 
hertfordseasider said:
Bowler had a massive impact on the game….. it was his ** about out by the corner flag, being neither use nor ornament that played their goal scorer onside! Had Mitchell still been on I can bet that wouldn’t of happened as he would have been in a proper position. Mitchell is a much cleverer player than Bowler and is a threat going forward but also tracks back and defends. When Bowler is in the right frame of mind he is brilliant at going past defenders and the ball sticks to his feet like glue, but he has no end product so unless he adds plenty more to his game those flashes of brilliance are meaningless and he is a luxury we can’t afford. It will be interesting to see if Critch can coach him to be a better player.
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Mitchell cleverer player than Bowler?? Not a chance. More hard-working and better defensively 100%, but a massive part of Mitchell’s game is pace.

Talking about end product. Mitchell has scored 1 goal in 40 odd games. Not sure on assists? So is his end product better than Bowler’s?

No.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Ok so Mitchell was on for 68 mins and Bowler for 22 mins.

Your best point is that our attacking right winger tackled back better. Brilliant.

I don’t know about you but I would prefer our attacking right winger to effect the game more offensively than defensively, which of course Bowler did. Granted he made some poor choices after his best bits but it’s an undeniable fact he created more.

Which is my point throughout.

I am guessing you wouldn’t know that though, no? Which is why I’m explaining it for you.

This could solve the Messi v Ronaldo debate once and for all… which one tackles back better? Deal breaker.
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In fairness there’s a good reason why United have struggled since Ronaldo returned. Because he too offers absolutely nothing defensively… That’s fine if he’s contributing a couple of goals every game, but if not, then you’re screwed.

I watched Lavery yesterday harrying and pressing and twice he pickpocketed their players and turned into an attack…. So If Lavery (our best natural striker / attacker) can be arsed doing the hard miles Josh can too…

The side loses any sense of balance when we drop Mitchell for him… If anything it diminishes our attacking threat, because our right sided fullback is forced back, because there’s no cover…

As I said, he looked threatening and could have created for us yesterday, but equally we very likely wouldn’t have conceded had we retained our shape….

And that’s the dilemma…. One goal / one assist doesn’t justify the lack of attention to defensive duties.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Mitchell cleverer player than Bowler?? Not a chance. More hard-working and better defensively 100%, but a massive part of Mitchell’s game is pace.

Talking about end product. Mitchell has scored 1 goal in 40 odd games. Not sure on assists? So is his end product better than Bowler’s?

No.
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Bowler is a head down player mate… intelligent he certainly ain’t… Mitchell is a far more intelligent player…

In fact along with Keshi, I’d say he’s one of the most intelligent players we have.

Consistently draws fouls from the opposition in key areas of the pitch and offers much better protection to the full backs … A team player who understands how to employ a system effectively and do his job.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
In fairness there’s a good reason why United have struggled since Ronaldo returned. Because he too offers absolutely nothing defensively… That’s fine if he’s contributing a couple of goals every game, but if not, then you’re screwed.

I watched Lavery yesterday harrying and pressing and twice he pickpocketed their players and turned into an attack…. So If Lavery (our best natural striker / attacker) can be arsed doing the hard miles Josh can too…

The side loses any sense of balance when we drop Mitchell for him… If anything it diminishes our attacking threat, because our right sided fullback is forced back, because there’s no cover…

As I said, he looked threatening and could have created for us yesterday, but equally we very likely wouldn’t have conceded had we retained our shape….

And that’s the dilemma…. One goal / one assist doesn’t justify the lack of attention to defensive duties.
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Maybe clutching, but I think it’s 2 assists, the one at Millwall should count 😂

I think my point is, I don’t get why Bowler is slated for no end product but Mitchell isn’t, cos he works harder? We need chances creating.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
In fairness there’s a good reason why United have struggled since Ronaldo returned. Because he too offers absolutely nothing defensively… That’s fine if he’s contributing a couple of goals every game, but if not, then you’re screwed.

I watched Lavery yesterday harrying and pressing and twice he pickpocketed their players and turned into an attack…. So If Lavery (our best natural striker / attacker) can be arsed doing the hard miles Josh can too…

The side loses any sense of balance when we drop Mitchell for him… If anything it diminishes our attacking threat, because our right sided fullback is forced back, because there’s no cover…

As I said, he looked threatening and could have created for us yesterday, but equally we very likely wouldn’t have conceded had we retained our shape….

And that’s the dilemma…. One goal / one assist doesn’t justify the lack of attention to defensive duties.
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Of course you're right in that Bowler has to do much more with his defensive duties, tracking back etc but surely the focus of this debate is about what Bowler does going forward. We signed him based on what we thought he could do going forward, not what he'd add defensively. And I'm pretty sure Critch picks him for what he can do going forward as well. People on here are just scapegoating.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Maybe clutching, but I think it’s 2 assists, the one at Millwall should count 😂

I think my point is, I don’t get why Bowler is slated for no end product but Mitchell isn’t, cos he works harder? We need chances creating.
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Well that’s precisely it… It’s not just about what the player does individually (particularly not when you want to employ our style of play).

It relies heavily on every member of the team working off the ball as well as on it. With Demi we have balance and the fullback can push on… So not only are we more solid, but the way we can attack is different…

I don’t want to seem like this is a big Anti Bowler thing, because he is a talented player and I thought he posed a different threat when he came in yesterday, but I can understand the problem we face with him and if he’s going to justify his place then he needs to either deliver more goals or up his game defensively (ideally both 😂😂)
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Bowler is a head down player mate… intelligent he certainly ain’t… Mitchell is a far more intelligent player…

In fact along with Keshi, I’d say he’s one of the most intelligent players we have.

Consistently draws fouls from the opposition in key areas of the pitch and offers much better protection to the full backs … A team player who understands how to employ a system effectively and do his job.
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I disagree, I think Bowler is the more intelligent footballer, sees spaces, passes and situations clearer.

The issue is, his application, he’s been selfish a few times with better options available and his lack of graft backwards, but at the same time these ‘types’ of players are like that.

I just don’t get the Mitchell love-in yet Bowler is slagged.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Mitchell cleverer player than Bowler?? Not a chance. More hard-working and better defensively 100%, but a massive part of Mitchell’s game is pace.

Talking about end product. Mitchell has scored 1 goal in 40 odd games. Not sure on assists? So is his end product better than Bowler’s?

No.
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I think our assist rate would be better all round if we played left wingers on the left and right wingers on the right with 2 up front, but to cover that defensively we have to play 3 at the back plus wing backs or 4 at the back with wingers who can defend.
 
Adams Kebab said:
I disagree, I think Bowler is the more intelligent footballer, sees spaces, passes and situations clearer.

The issue is, his application, he’s been selfish a few times with better options available and his lack of graft backwards, but at the same time these ‘types’ of players are like that.

I just don’t get the Mitchell love-in yet Bowler is slagged.
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I’m not slagging him, just simply stating how it is.

To suggest Bowler is an ‘intelligent player’ though (and particularly moreso than Demi) seems to completely miss the point. Bowler is all about natural ability and Mitchell is all about his brain…

With Josh, he runs forward amd what happens happens instinctively… The only thought going on is in the moment…He’s out there independently playing for himself and doing what he does…

Mitchell will grasp the complexity of the system snd how to fulfil his role in it without the need for the focus to be on him…
 
Adams Kebab said:
I disagree, I think Bowler is the more intelligent footballer, sees spaces, passes and situations clearer.

The issue is, his application, he’s been selfish a few times with better options available and his lack of graft backwards, but at the same time these ‘types’ of players are like that.

I just don’t get the Mitchell love-in yet Bowler is slagged.
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In my view neither are making any real impact at the moment in terms of assists and goals. We need better and we don't need Dale, another not up to the task.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
With Josh, he runs forward amd what happens happens instinctively… The only thought going on is in the moment…He’s out there independently playing for himself and doing what he does…

Mitchell will grasp the complexity of the system snd how to fulfil his role in it without the need for the focus to be on him…
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I agree with this but I also think the difference is, one can’t be arsed doing the dirty work and one can. Numerous players like this. Mitchell also came listed as left back, so the defensive side is probably more comfortable for him.

If Mitchell starts more regularly it’ll be a few weeks till people will say he’s shit. That’s the way it usually works on here 🙈🤣
 
Adams Kebab said:
Ok so Mitchell was on for 68 mins and Bowler for 22 mins.

Your best point is that our attacking right winger tackled back better. Brilliant.

I don’t know about you but I would prefer our attacking right winger to effect the game more offensively than defensively, which of course Bowler did. Granted he made some poor choices after his best bits but it’s an undeniable fact he created more.

Which is my point throughout.

I am guessing you wouldn’t know that though, no? Which is why I’m explaining it for you.

This could solve the Messi v Ronaldo debate once and for all… which one tackles back better? Deal breaker.
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Kebab

I'm thinking Bowler wouldn't get any grief re tackling and tracking back when he's scoring 50 goals a season like Messi and Ronaldo do - or did.
 
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