Care Home Deaths

ElBurroSinNombre

ElBurroSinNombre

Well-known member
Latest calculation from Reuters based on official stats puts the figure at over 20,000
That is a staggering amount, without getting into political point scoring, these people do seem to have been an after thought in any strategy we may have been following.

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ElBurroSinNombre said:
Latest calculation from Reuters based on official stats puts the figure at over 20,000
That is a staggering amount, without getting into political point scoring, these people do seem to have been an after thought in any strategy we may have been following.

uk.reuters.com

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.
uk.reuters.com uk.reuters.com
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Think "afterthought" is too strong a word but there certainly has been a problem. Again, not making excuses, but when CV first broke out over here, there were that many things needed to be put in place which were given priority both in action and thinking/discussion. Let's face it, all the Nightingale hospitals have to date mainly been a white elephant haven't they? But if the epidemic had really exploded much quicker than it has and there had been hundreds and thousands of life threatening cases, then the criticism would have been massive for not having them. ready. Not point scoring either, just highlighting the difficulty of the situation.
But yep, too many deaths lost in care homes sadly.
 
Just looking online, the total UK care home population figure I could find was 290000, so we are at a death rate of about 7% of all residents.
 
Awful, does this mean the mantra of save the NHS has proved deadly as many elderly were moved from hospitals to care homes in readiness for C19.
 
I work for the NHS and visit Care Homes regularly. The problem was the lack of advice given out by the Government. When the virus first hit some care homes were slow to react. Some went on lockdown immediately and wouldn't allow visitors. Others insisted on PPE for visitors and some didn't bother. One I went to allowed visitors but you had your temperature taken on entry. I went to one home and said that they were the only home I was visiting which were allowing visitors and they were surprised. Next time I went they were on lockdown. I would say the majority of Care Homes on the Fylde Coast now have their residents isolating in their rooms and all staff wearing PPE. Also a lot of the homes were refusing patients from The Harbour as that had a Covid breakout. The reason deaths in Care Homes are falling is that the owners have belatedly put safety measures in place.
The Statement from Boris which said if you use common sense you wont catch the virus sums it up. He caught it.
 
The true figure may be much higher than the report above suggests. I have just been watching PMQs, according to Starmer there were over 18000 extra care home deaths (above the previous 5 year average) in the month of April. The government has recorded 8000 of these in the official COVID stats but the other 10000 are so far unexplained. That is 18000 dead just for one month (perhaps the worst month of the epidemic).
My dad died in a care home a couple of years back, I am glad that he died then - it must be so difficult for the relatives, you cannot self isolate effectively in that environment.
 
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I think the effort and expense that has been wasted locking up the vast majority of people who are fit and healthy, unlikely to contract serious infection and would have contributed to us quickly gaining immunity, could have been much better spent on protecting / shielding the vulnerable.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I think the effort and expense that has been wasted locking up the vast majority of people who are fit and healthy, unlikely to contract serious infection and would have contributed to us quickly gaining immunity, could have been much better spent on protecting / shielding the vulnerable.
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Why should we not have done both?
 
Here is the governments advice from March (which is surprisingly still available online). It contains the following sentence; 'It remains very unlikely that people receiving care in a care home or the community will become infected.'

www.gov.uk

[Withdrawn] Guidance for social or community care and residential settings on COVID-19

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

How on earth did they get it so wrong? We had the benefit of seeing what was happening in Italy and Spain at this point.
And as an aside Johnson has just flatly denied that this was government advice in PMQs
 
One of the problems is that the focus by the media and others seems to shift on near enough a daily or perhaps weekly basis. One crisis highlighted or dealt with, let's find another. Not saying they are wrong but we are in unprecedented times. Mistakes have been made both in gov't but also within many other areas trying to get a grip with this dreaded disease.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
How on earth did they get it so wrong? We had the benefit of seeing what was happening in Italy and Spain at this point.
And as an aside Johnson has just flatly denied that this was government advice in PMQs
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Your last sentence... You are joking, right? Can any civil servant post advice on the gov.uk website, willy-nilly then, without the relevant Minister’s approval?
 
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20togo said:
One of the problems is that the focus by the media and others seems to shift on near enough a daily or perhaps weekly basis. One crisis highlighted or dealt with, let's find another. Not saying they are wrong but we are in unprecedented times. Mistakes have been made both in gov't but also within many other areas trying to get a grip with this dreaded disease.
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We have been consistently around a month behind much of Europe yet appeared to have ignored every single lesson learned and made exactly the same mistakes. That's the question that will need answering in the aftermath of this.
You can't help but feel that the Brexit obsessed mindset that has been prevalent for the last few years has (maybe subconsciously) contributed to not focusing on what's happening on the continent.
 
Archibald Knox said:
Your last sentence... You are joking, right? Can anyone post advice on the gov.uk website, willy-nilly then?
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Johnson not in command of his brief - what a surprise!
Evicerated again at PMQs, I am sure he will be taking that paternity leave soon.


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Starmer taking it further
 
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Archibald Knox said:
Why should we not have done both?
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I'm not convinced by the real need to do both to be honest. The more expert opinion I am reading / watching (nothing better to do in the circumstances) the more it becomes apparent that many of the measures we have adopted have very little, if any scientiufic foundation. This mantra of "We are following the science" could possibly have been better framed as "We are panicking and simply reacting to what others are doing / trying to appease a scared public" perhaps.

Beyond handwashing and sensible social distancing there seems little evidence to suggesnt the need for the whole closing the economy strategy, stopping outdoor activity and closing schools. In fact arguably, many of thse things will increase the number of deaths due to the virus circulating in the population much longer than necessary, the failure to allow those who will be least affected to build herd immuniuty etc..

Maybe we should have stuck with Plan 'A' and focused our efforts and finances in the very specific areas it was needed...i.e. Shielding the vulnerable / carehomes etc... and increasing our medical / care capacity to deal with a relatively quick progress of the virus.
 
Archibald Knox said:
But a proper lockdown, made sufficiently early, has worked for many countries and saved many lives. That is obvious.
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I'm not so sure that's correct. It's possible, but for countries like New Zealand you have to wonder quite where they go from here. Do they exist as a closed community forever, bearing in mind that they have very limited immunity between them? What is their long term plan? Is it to live in hope of a vaccine?

How practical are measures that work in a country with a tiny population and miniscule population density for much large countries and particularly a beast like the USA.
 
SirHarryThomson said:
I work for the NHS and visit Care Homes regularly. The problem was the lack of advice given out by the Government. When the virus first hit some care homes were slow to react. Some went on lockdown immediately and wouldn't allow visitors. Others insisted on PPE for visitors and some didn't bother. One I went to allowed visitors but you had your temperature taken on entry. I went to one home and said that they were the only home I was visiting which were allowing visitors and they were surprised. Next time I went they were on lockdown. I would say the majority of Care Homes on the Fylde Coast now have their residents isolating in their rooms and all staff wearing PPE. Also a lot of the homes were refusing patients from The Harbour as that had a Covid breakout. The reason deaths in Care Homes are falling is that the owners have belatedly put safety measures in place.
The Statement from Boris which said if you use common sense you wont catch the virus sums it up. He caught it.
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Great post.

Despite poor information from the Government it's important to remember that 95% of care homes are private enterprises therefore some criticism ought to be leveled at greedy owners not looking after their staff and clientelle.
 
20togo said:
Think "afterthought" is too strong a word but there certainly has been a problem. Again, not making excuses, but when CV first broke out over here, there were that many things needed to be put in place which were given priority both in action and thinking/discussion. Let's face it, all the Nightingale hospitals have to date mainly been a white elephant haven't they? But if the epidemic had really exploded much quicker than it has and there had been hundreds and thousands of life threatening cases, then the criticism would have been massive for not having them. ready. Not point scoring either, just highlighting the difficulty of the situation.
But yep, too many deaths lost in care homes sadly.
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If your post isn't trying to soften the blow and therefore political point scoring then I don't know what is? It's at best a XXXXXXX disgrace!
 
I pity you.
Try reading and watching some football posts and videos. Might cheer you up if that's possible.
 
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20togo said:
You still about recidivist, thought you were off out for the day?
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No, it was never going to happen I’m more preoccupied at the moment with my aunt’s funeral arrangements. She died in a care home in Leyland at the weekend

96 years old
 
Well you have my sympathy then. Never easy losing some-one close to you no matter what the circumstances.
 
the policy of sending elderly patients from hospital wards with covid positive patients into care homes without testing them first is a national disgrace for which this government must be held accountable
 
The picture is very variable across the country.
In Lincolnshire we have an above average elderly population and an above average number of care homes. The County Council worked closely with the care home sector and most restricted access to the homes some weeks before the lockdown, as they were identified as high risk. As as result we have had very few deaths in care homes here and only a small number of homes affected by Covid19.
Care homes have been badly affected by Covid in other countries, not just the UK.
 
Whoever took the word ‘therefore’ out of Keir Starmer’s quote about deaths in care homes is a fool. If Starmer starts to fight dirty he’s a fool too
 
The government took all the ppe destined mainly nursing homes. They stopped the goods and diverted them to the NHS at the docks. The importers then had nothing to supply the independent distributors with to be able then to supply the nursing homes. They left nursing homes to fend without ppe. This is FACT my son is an independent distributor he was left to tell his customers the bad news..
 
Recidivist3 said:
No, it was never going to happen I’m more preoccupied at the moment with my aunt’s funeral arrangements. She died in a care home in Leyland at the weekend

96 years old
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Will you be able to get to the funeral? I believe there are restrictions on numbers attending funerals.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I'm not so sure that's correct. It's possible, but for countries like New Zealand you have to wonder quite where they go from here. Do they exist as a closed community forever, bearing in mind that they have very limited immunity between them? What is their long term plan? Is it to live in hope of a vaccine?

How practical are measures that work in a country with a tiny population and miniscule population density for much large countries and particularly a beast like the USA.
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Where does NZ go? 5 million people is not tiny. But I agree the effort is affected by population size only insofar as the number of CV cases you have, but the dominating factor is how you quickly you act to keep that number down. That’s the difference between Deutschland and the UK. It’s straightforward for NZ now. They have crushed the spread of the virus, infected people are isolated and treated and recover, while not spreading it. Then they control and monitor all immigration with enforced quarantine. If any cases slip through they are able to test, trace and isolate a small cluster, with all the technology at their disposal, to prevent it blowing up again. As an island nation they have complete control of their borders.

We seem to be trying to raise the lockdown while we still have about 3500 new infections every day! We’ll never stamp it out at this rate; at best it might be a very slow decline over months if they manage to keep the R below 1. But NZ has got the R down to the order of about 0.1 or less, maybe 0.01, very quickly indeed, so it was only a matter of 2 or 3 weeks before nearly all spreading stopped.

The USA and Russia are very different cases. They are like federations of many different countries and cultures. Not so homogeneous and organised as NZ. They have hot spots in cities but some remote areas where there are very few cases, more easily controlled, if the authorities have that determination. But Trump has undermined even those regions it seems. Putin does not seem to care much either.
 
I hope the authorities are now allowing immediate family to attend funerals. That restriction out of everything should be relaxed.
 
Archibald Knox said:
Where does NZ go? 5 million people is not tiny. But I agree the effort is affected by population size only insofar as the number of CV cases you have, but the dominating factor is how you quickly you act to keep that number down. That’s the difference between Deutschland and the UK. It’s straightforward for NZ now. They have crushed the spread of the virus, infected people are isolated and treated and recover, while not spreading it. Then they control and monitor all immigration with enforced quarantine. If any cases slip through they are able to test, trace and isolate a small cluster, with all the technology at their disposal, to prevent it blowing up again. As an island nation they have complete control of their borders.

We seem to be trying to raise the lockdown while we still have about 3500 new infections every day! We’ll never stamp it out at this rate; at best it might be a very slow decline over months if they manage to keep the R below 1. But NZ has got the R down to the order of about 0.1 or less, maybe 0.01, very quickly indeed, so it was only a matter of 2 or 3 weeks before nearly all spreading stopped.
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So until the miracle vaccine appears, travel in and out of New Zealand will be subject to strict quarantine measures? I wish them luck with that and I suppose their unique situation (Small spread out island population) lends itself to mass self-isolation, though I'm not sure how it will play out practically.

The UK will stamp it out, because like every other respiritory virus we've experienced over millenia, it will run it's course and fade away.
 
Recidivist3 said:
Not sure but, if restrictions are as per guidelines, unlikely. 4 generations in my aunt’s immediate family alone

thanks, btw to you and elburro for your comments 👍
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I think you talk a load of Shiite and are deliberately antagonistic and no doubt you and a few others think the same of me. That doesn't mean to say though that I don't have lots of sympathy for anyone who hast lost anyone or is suffering because of this dreadful virus.
 
20togo said:
I think you talk a load of Shiite and are deliberately antagonistic and no doubt you and a few others think the same of me. That doesn't mean to say though that I don't have lots of sympathy for anyone who hast lost anyone or is suffering because of this dreadful virus.
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ohhh ... and here was was me thinking we were gonna be friends .... forum friends

to be fair, you were the first person I was ever antagonistic towards, labelling you as Togo boy, many moons ago

It’s all just sticks and stones, really, tho I was genuinely surprised when you lost it earlier on this thread
 
Recidivist3 said:
ohhh ... and here was was me thinking we were gonna be friends .... forum friends

to be fair, you were the first person I was ever antagonistic towards, labelling you as Togo boy, many moons ago

It’s all just sticks and stones, really, tho I was genuinely surprised when you lost it earlier on this thread
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I think you labelled me much worse recently even if you were only quoting a fake account.
 
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