Civil Servants

CalmDown

Well-known member
Ok, so...

What’s the most consistent entity in ANY Governing power in the United Kingdom?

Who “advises the MP’s”?

Senior/Junior Civil Servants - regardless of which political spectrum is in power...

So,

What “blame” or “emphasis” can be based on these types?

If you believe the rabid types on here, Boris is to blame for EVERYTHING, or Cummings...

But, hang on? What about the Civil Service, who advise, coordinates Government policy, writes papers, Government protocol and procedures?

How are these types not held to account?

Did these types always and irrefutably “back the right horse”?

For me; YES, Presiding Governorship is accountable...

But let’s ALL remember, the same self serving Civil Servants presides over WHATEVER Government is in power... and often leads the way they Govern...

Or, shall we, all just blame Boris 🤔

For me, The Civil Service, have questions to answer...

Think about it 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Ok, so...

What’s the most consistent entity in ANY Governing power in the United Kingdom?

Who “advises the MP’s”?

Senior/Junior Civil Servants - regardless of which political spectrum is in power...

So,

What “blame” or “emphasis” can be based on these types?

If you believe the rabid types on here, Boris is to blame for EVERYTHING, or Cummings...

But, hang on? What about the Civil Service, who advise, coordinates Government policy, writes papers, Government protocol and procedures?

How are these types not held to account?

Did these types always and irrefutably “back the right horse”?

For me; YES, Presiding Governorship is accountable...

But let’s ALL remember, the same self serving Civil Servants presides over WHATEVER Government is in power... and often leads the way they Govern...

Or, shall we, all just blame Boris 🤔

For me, The Civil Service, have questions to answer...

Think about it 🤷🏻‍♂️


Bearing in mind - This forum has even had the odd senior and junior type of Civil Servant - Who thought The Oyston regime was the best entity for Blackpool Football Club.

The point is, how wrong they were in their judgement.

What’s to say their judgement on advising, and their development and implementation of Government policy, was as times, as ill judged as their support of the Oyston regime?
Can we blame Blair, Boris, Maggie etc - for their inept judgement? On every occasion, bar none?
 
Last edited:
When things go tits up let’s blame the civil servants 👍

No, not at all.

But, as someone who works in the Public Sector, let’s not absolve any questioning or blame, from those who are behind every Government we’ve had.

Unless you are that blinkered, unaware and biased to assume the Civil Service doesn’t have a role to play alongside any Government in power?
 
So, was it the civil servants who advised inept, incompetent PM to attend Twickenham and shake hands with all and sundry and to miss 5 Cobra meetings about the pandemic and to delay lockdown until it was too late and to discharge hospital patients back to care homes without testing? I would suggest all those things lie at the feet of the blustering idiot!
 
OK, I'll lead from the CS cohort.
The OP makes one key mistake: a civil servant can be found to be inefficient, ineffective or even dull and moved sideways. A civil servant can be found to have broken the rules of their employment and can be demoted or sacked. However, no civil servant is responsible for Govt. policy - that responsibility lies with Government Ministers who, in the case of all Departmental Heads, are elected as MPs by the public. They cannot be sacked or moved sideways by the civil service. They are only answerable to the Prime Minister.
Put simply, the civil service advise, Government Ministers decide.
 
About what? Everything in general, or do you have a specific gripe?

No, in general. The Civil Service advise, and develop and implement Government policy, for whoever the presiding Government is...

I just feel they are not absolute of questioning for their accountability.
 
Last edited:
I think if they were trademen they'd be plumbers.Doing all the dirty work that no-one else wants to do but being suitably rewarded financially,and of course drinking all the tea and biscuits you can during the working day.
 
Correct. But why can’t they be held to account as Government ministers are?

After all, many of these types were advising Labour and Conservative ministers alike.
Because - as I've said above - they don't take decisions and they are not elected.
Take the plumber analogy. If you employ a plumber to do a job and she balls up, that is her responsibility and she is financially liable. If you say to a mate, who is a plumber, "how should I do this?" and she advises you but you do the job and cock up, that is your problem, not hers.
 
Is there anybody Boris Johnson and his sycophants haven't blamed yet?
Apart from themselves, obviously.

The PM is one man. He can do no more than one man can do. Almost all the government's work is done by civil servants and ministers. Only Boris receives the blame and as leader of the government he has to accept responsibility for decisions made by senior civil servants, scientists etc. The cat from Herts and her lickspittles seem to have trouble grasping the concept of how governments govern.
 
The top civil servants are busy trying to blame Jo public. They've "advised" they've "insisted" they've "demanded" on each and every decision to such an extent that now it would seem that if you catch C-19 it'll be your own fault.
 
I think you’re reaching for the stars if you think any civil servants on here advise the government directly or indirectly with effect.
Which is exactly why I don’t take any offence at the op and won’t get embroiled in the debate on a personal level.
 
Us civil servants are merely instruments to carry out the will, laws and aims of the Government.

I’m a level under Senior Civil Service so I cant comment on them but in my experience Civil Servants have very little input, you only have to be there when an MP does a publicity stunt ‘visit’ to any department, often laughable how management dress up shambolic aspects and present a faux work place to impress them.
 
Case in point. Whilst I'll benefit from this decision so not complaining the recent public sector pensions discrimination was due to political posturing to the unions.

There was simply no reason to treat over 50's differently as the change was not retrospective - A £17bn mistake 😮
 
Because - as I've said above - they don't take decisions and they are not elected.
Take the plumber analogy. If you employ a plumber to do a job and she balls up, that is her responsibility and she is financially liable. If you say to a mate, who is a plumber, "how should I do this?" and she advises you but you do the job and cock up, that is your problem, not hers.

I could make an analogy, to suit my point too.

Just to be clear, the Senior Civil Servants at Whitehall and the likes, many of them have been the ever presents through good/bad and bizarre Government decisions.

Dominic Cummings is practically the highest civil servant in the land, or certainly senior advisor to the Prime Minister - and yet people on this very site alone, including yourself - were clamouring for him to be held to account.

I am not saying that people should be held account unfairly, nor that the proportionate blame is with the civil servants who advise ministers, no.

What I am merely saying is, as someone who works in the civil service myself, that I’m surrounded by colleagues whom make simple awful decisions. Which then are acted upon or fully implemented by others.

In summary, there’s a hell of a lot of people involved in Central and Local Government “decisions” ... To say the Civil Service isn’t part of that process, and faultless in terms of advice, procedures, protocols, implementations etc. Is my point. They are an ever present group of people, no matter what Government, or Governing authority, is at the helm... be it Labour/Conservatives, Boris, Thatcher, Corbyn or Blair.
 
For someone who claims to be a civil servant ** he certainly seems to know very little about how Government works.

** could be working his summer holidays on a "Bring Your Child To Work" scheme, I suppose. 😀
I thought the op had a familiar tone to it. Smiles
 
In response to the OP the top civil servants ARE held accountable and are regularly removed from post. Next.
 
If this post has turned into a Covid debate, then the scientists were the ones they listened to the most. “Follow the science” they said, until the science changed course. Who do the scientists answer to? Nobody. They are just imparting knowledge & advice to the best of their ability. The issue in this country, is that top advisors (e.g. Cummings), some Cobra members and the Chief Medical Officer were anti mask and in favour of herd immunity, until the mortality model was updated and everyone panicked. Two simple actions at the start of all this could have put the U.K. on a much better outcome - Close the airports and ports - regional / town full lockdowns. Instead the Government (not Civil Servants) allowed it to get out of control and chose to shut the country down for 1/3 year.
 
In response to the OP the top civil servants ARE held accountable and are regularly removed from post. Next.
And in addition, they have to answer to Select Committees, Public Enquires, Government studies, reports & investigations, various audits, courts and tribunals, Ministers, House of Lords, etc etc.
 
Such hard work eh ? No wonder Baz retired at 32 he could'nt raise his quill up anymore. Probably still has the same problem.😸
 
Such hard work eh ? No wonder Baz retired at 32 he could'nt raise his quill up anymore. Probably still has the same problem.😸

Careful Trammo, your jealousy is starting to show. 😀
 
You're all wrong, it's not the government or civil service to blame, it"s the front door of number 10. Without the door no one could get in and all these terrible decisions wouldn't be made.

Does anyone sack the door though? Do they fuck, it just keeps it's job.
 
You're all wrong, it's not the government or civil service to blame, it"s the front door of number 10. Without the door no one could get in and all these terrible decisions wouldn't be made.

Does anyone sack the door though? Do they fuck, it just keeps it's job.

It's well known in Whitehall that if they whitewash that door, then it's time to worry.
 
So i’m imaging a normal civil service day...😎
Rock up at 9.45...issue a couple of certificates answer phone...
12.00...pop to the squirrel to top up from night before...
2.15...back to the graft....
3.20...home time....
Doesn’t leave much time to advise boris does it...? 🤣
 
I’ve omitted your insults. However can you be so kind as to explain why I know very little how Government works?

I'd rather poke fun at you, to be honest. I know it's not quite the attention you're seeking, but never mind, eh?
 
Make statements about posters you can never corroborate - and revel in mocking others, in your supercilious tone.

Whereas you posted an OP maligning millions of people you have never met.

Good use of the words "mocking" and "supercilious" though. It's like old times.
 
Whereas you posted an OP maligning millions of people you have never met.

My OP posed some points on a political forum. Mainly whether The Civil Service has a part to play in developing and implementing policy for the current Government - and if so, are they exempt from being held to account, and or, to be questioned by the electorate, and does their work actually mean inadvertently the Ministers carry the can for their ill judgement.

Of course I’m not maligning millions of people I have never met, don’t be so dramatic.

I am simply questioning the ability of a proportion of people in these positions, and pointing out the fact they often serve under many differing Governments, and they maybe mistake prone, make ill judged calls, and now you mention it, not politically impartial.
 
Back
Top