Confronting Holocaust

Wizzerboy

Wizzerboy

Well-known member
My God, how can people actually believe that this atrocity never happened.
Dermot Mulqueen hang your head in shame you sick bas***d
 
There's a few of them about unfortunately. The latest trend is to downplay the numbers killed, like that makes it less horrific.
 
Who knows what happened?
They've been telling us for years that 2020 years ago, some guy fed 5000 people with a few loaves and a tin of sardines.
Not many have questioned it since.
 
I'm always amazed that so many people seek to deny it when you consider that the Nazis were such thorough record keepers. They documented the whole thing, assessed the cost/benefits of the whole enterprise and STILL some people choose not to believe it. Or pretend they don't.
 
Although the Jews have been despised and blamed for everything since the year dot, it's interesting to note that the Germans' hate of Jews started to really manifest itself in and after the first world war. They, along with Kaiser Bill, were blamed by many for what happened and the German capitulation in 1918. Hitler cottoned onto this hate IMHO and used it to win favour and election in a country that some would say had been driven into poverty by the allies and as an excuse to carry out the exterminations once WW2 was underway.

So Ronji, as BRR points out this whole chapter in history is carefully documented and therefore not at all questionable.
 
Ronji - religious belief is known as 'faith' - because doubts about it's veracity are overcome - The beliefs are based on scripture, stories passed down which usually feature fantastic events (and limited evidence) that the believer is required to suspend disbelief to accept. That suspension of rationality is willful and thus the term 'faith'

A historical event like the Holocaust is verified by literally millions of varied sources (from the perpetrators, to the victims, to people like my generation's grandparents who liberated the camps) - there is evidence in documents, photography, video, physical, archeological remains and still, living memory.

Comparing belief in the Holocaust to religious faith doesn't work. It's not similar at all. The level of proof is way different.

It might not have happened because we cannot 100% trust our senses, but equally this might all be a simulation and we might all be brains in jars on an alien spaceship in the fourth dimension. Or we might all be in the clutches of lizard creatures who spread mass delusion. I can't rule either of those scenarios out, but I find them less likely than the sad truth of human potential for unbridled evil.
 
basilrobbie said:
I doubt you'll get a reply. "Late night" posting, and all that.....
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Quite.

Ronji needs to get his backside to Auschwitz, Belsen, Birkenau etc and see for himself. I have as I'm sure many of you have too.

Nobody who has visited them places can be in any doubt, at all, as the scale of the atrocities that occurred there. - IMO should be mandatory visits for secondary schoolers along with the killing fields of the Somme etc.
 
RONJI said:
Who knows what happened?
They've been telling us for years that 2020 years ago, some guy fed 5000 people with a few loaves and a tin of sardines.
Not many have questioned it since.
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My late great Grandfather and his older brother were sent away from the west of Russia by their parents who could only afford one train fare,in 1941. (They smuggled my Grandfather out in his brothers

Their parents love saved them both and condemned them to death, for the mere crime of being Jewish.
They later found out both their parents had been executed by firing squad in what later would be dubbed the ‘holocaust by bullets”.

After a roundabout trip he wound up on the Costa Del Fylde and watched the mighty for his adult life and worked the hotels in the 50s and 60s I wish you could have come across him to ask him if he really knew what happened.
 
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I have given orders to my Death units to exterminate without mercy or pity men, women and children belonging to the Polish speaking race... After all, who remembers today the extermination of the Armenians?

Adolf Hitler.

Says it all really.
 
Of course it happened. We are not talking about something 100s of years ago.

There are witness accounts, some from British POWs who were held at the death camps, records of the horrors committed. Even a couple of the Nazi scum admitted such at the Nuremberg trials.

Why would anyone want to denounce that this didn’t happen? Read the secret life’s of the Nazi”s and you will see what a fucked up bunch of losers these SS officers really were.
 
If you watch the repeat at 11.15pm on BBC 2 tonight, you'll get to see the person himself.
Had a Facebook account "president Mulqueen " but that seems to have disappeared!!
Sings songs about Jews driving Mercs, with the analogy that if the Germans had done what the Jews claim then why would they promote a German car manufacturer.
Comes across as a sick ,stupid bastard tbh.
 
Wizzerboy said:
If you watch the repeat at 11.15pm on BBC 2 tonight, you'll get to see the person himself.
Had a Facebook account "president Mulqueen " but that seems to have disappeared!!
Sings songs about Jews driving Mercs, with the analogy that if the Germans had done what the Jews claim then why would they promote a German car manufacturer.
Comes across as a sick ,stupid bastard tbh.
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Cheers I’ve got it on planner
 
Holocaust Denial...wtf

Why is David Baddiel hugging this elderly lady ? Because she is a survivor of Auschwitz
where all her family were murdered and incinerated. I've met two of these remarkable people
in my life, there is nothing to deny - Excellent documentary by Baddiel, another one on his Trolls in
a week or two. Mulqueen is a loathsome individual who can be ignored, whack that guitar round
his smug face please.


Screen Shot 2020-02-18 at 13.31.09.png
 
I've just watched it. I'm not sure what I expected it, but it was more thoughtful than I had expected, and he did a good job of keeping his own (understandable) emotions under control.

That segment with the Irish prick should go viral, if there is any justice. It showed him (and his ilk) up for that they are.
 
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The Holocaust happened because of one man. Hitler.
Unfortunately some of his followers thought he was right in his belief in the extermination of the Jewish people.
They were then the people with the power to do Hitlers bidding and start the extermination.
If anyone has been to the memorial in the centre of Berlin, did they get the eerie feeling which I did?
After all these years I still fail to understand how the German people allowed this to happen.
It started with just a few brutal followers and fairly soon became an epidemic of forcefully degrading the Jewish people, but then was allowed to expand to what we eventually saw.
As I have said before, I have met many German people, likeable, friendly and generous.
However I still find it hard to believe that THEY, or their forbears, allowed it to happen.
 
Davepick said:
The Holocaust happened because of one man. Hitler.
Unfortunately some of his followers thought he was right in his belief in the extermination of the Jewish people.
They were then the people with the power to do Hitlers bidding and start the extermination.
If anyone has been to the memorial in the centre of Berlin, did they get the eerie feeling which I did?
After all these years I still fail to understand how the German people allowed this to happen.
It started with just a few brutal followers and fairly soon became an epidemic of forcefully degrading the Jewish people, but then was allowed to expand to what we eventually saw.
As I have said before, I have met many German people, likeable, friendly and generous.
However I still find it hard to believe that THEY, or their forbears, allowed it to happen.
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brain washed? Scared? Denial?
I no Hitler surrounded himself with equally unhinged “people” the likes of Himmler, Hoess, Gorering and Eickman to name a few, who he got to implement the final solution through the SS.
 
Johnno said:
Every normal thinking German person believes it happened, why wouldn't everyone else?
I always find it ironic that the biggest Holocaust deniers are Nazi sympathisers. Anyone would think they were ashamed of their own belief systems.
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Having spent a fair amount of time in Germany it beggars belief that as a nation they could have done what they did - but let's get it right they did and on a scale that is barely comprehendible
 
Dermot Mulqueen's logic was a little confused to say the least.

'The gas chambers did not exist and were invented by the Jews as they were angry with white Europeans for not saving them from the ...... err, err ...... gas chambers.'
 
"All it requires for evil to succeed is for a few good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

In this case a vast majority of the German population did nothing.
 
I just watched the program. My grandfather, father's side, was a jew and raised in London and moved to Blackpool during the war. Holocaust denial is, in my opinion, bloody ridiculous.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Having spent a fair amount of time in Germany it beggars belief that as a nation they could have done what they did - but let's get it right they did and on a scale that is barely comprehendible
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I found having been posted to Berlin after the wall was built in '61 that the Germans I came across were angry and in denial of what happened during the war.
The Russian war memorial in the British sector of Berlin had Russian soldiers standing guard, the Germans wanted them out and attacked them and British troops were called in to protect the site and restore order.
In civilian clothes I was chatting to a Berliner, made out I was a tourist and he was quite adamant that if they had not broken their peace treaty with Russia, Western Europe would have been completely under control of Germany, there would have been no East or West just one great nation that one day after the fall of Europe they would then have taken on the Russians.
It appeared to me that their only regret the Germans had was that they lost the war, having killed millions, displaced million more was of little concern to them.
One thing that surprised me was that as many as 80,000 Russians died in the final battle for Berlin, the Russians did not want to see Germany rise again and so having the likes of Poland and Hungary and the other Warsaw pact countries occupied as a buffer zone and a first line of defence just in case Germany went on the march again.
 
Whitstabletangerine said:
I found having been posted to Berlin after the wall was built in '61 that the Germans I came across were angry and in denial of what happened during the war.
The Russian war memorial in the British sector of Berlin had Russian soldiers standing guard, the Germans wanted them out and attacked them and British troops were called in to protect the site and restore order.
In civilian clothes I was chatting to a Berliner, made out I was a tourist and he was quite adamant that if they had not broken their peace treaty with Russia, Western Europe would have been completely under control of Germany, there would have been no East or West just one great nation that one day after the fall of Europe they would then have taken on the Russians.
It appeared to me that their only regret the Germans had was that they lost the war, having killed millions, displaced million more was of little concern to them.
One thing that surprised me was that as many as 80,000 Russians died in the final battle for Berlin, the Russians did not want to see Germany rise again and so having the likes of Poland and Hungary and the other Warsaw pact countries occupied as a buffer zone and a first line of defence just in case Germany went on the march again.
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interesting quick read 👍
Yes there was no love lost between the Russians and the Germans
 
You have to imagine the mindset of a starving defeated Germany in the late 20s and 30s, being told that the war was lost to Jewish Bankers in the USA who loaned the alies the cash to beat Germany (the best propaganda is based on a portion of truth).

But.... Did they (the Germans) know about the final solution?
We (the British public) knew nothing of it till afterwards, and if you read accounts from the axis troops, they were much more interested in defeating Comunists than Jews.
.........
As for the posts above about the Nazis keeping record of the Holocaust.

They didn't!

They kept records of the plans, the camps, the funds, the crimes, but NOT the victims. The victims lost three or four generations so there were few witnesses.

Hence the denialists questioning the head count, which could actually be more.
 
Don_K_Lasher said:
You have to imagine the mindset of a starving defeated Germany in the late 20s and 30s, being told that the war was lost to Jewish Bankers in the USA who loaned the alies the cash to beat Germany (the best propaganda is based on a portion of truth).

But.... Did they (the Germans) know about the final solution?
We (the British public) knew nothing of it till afterwards, and if you read accounts from the axis troops, they were much more interested in defeating Comunists than Jews.
.........
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Britain knew nothing until afterwars- not quite true, Anthony Eden the foreign secretary spoke of the extermination of the jews in Poland in parliament in 1942 and the BBC made statements in 42 and again in 43 regarding the rounding up and killing of Jews in German occupied countries.

Just one other point of interest and that was before the outbreak of war, Britain had the largest naval fleet in the world and it was not financed by the US.
 
Whitstabletangerine said:
Britain knew nothing until afterwars- not quite true, Anthony Eden the foreign secretary spoke of the extermination of the jews in Poland in parliament in 1942 and the BBC made statements in 42 and again in 43 regarding the rounding up and killing of Jews in German occupied countries.

Just one other point of interest and that was before the outbreak of war, Britain had the largest naval fleet in the world and it was not financed by the US.
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Which is why I said 'The British public'🤔 not the British.

The British borrowed heavily from USA to fund WW1, the last payments were in 2015.
Yes that's right 2015!

Whoever lost the war would be bankrupted.
The USA (Jewish bankers according to Hitler and Henry Ford) backed the Alies, Germany was bankrupted.
 
Cuthbert said:
Ronji has his hands full with his own vital parts, makes him talk nonsense.
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I never said it didn't happen - i merely said who knows. It's time people questioned everything rather than being force-fed facts without deciding for themselves. Half the country believe everything that's printed in the Daily Mail or Sun newspaper and adopt it as factual without processing it for themselves.

Interesting that nobody took up debate on whether or not Jesus Christ existed.

Turned water into wine, healed lepers, conceived by a virgin mother Mary, fed the 5000, gave eyesight to the blind, cured cripples etc etc.
All farcical beyond belief, yet billions attend mass every Sunday to offer 'thanks and praise'. Go figure. Brainwashing is still rife.

I'm under no illusion that the Holocaust never happened, of course it did, in fact i know people who were closely associated with all the atrocities that took place, but history is steeped with contortion of events, alteration of truths etc - and the whole Jesus thing is just one example.

Unless you were there, you don't and cannot know. It's that simple.
 
RONJI said:
I never said it didn't happen - i merely said who knows. It's time people questioned everything rather than being force-fed facts without deciding for themselves. Half the country believe everything that's printed in the Daily Mail or Sun newspaper and adopt it as factual without processing it for themselves.

Interesting that nobody took up debate on whether or not Jesus Christ existed.

Turned water into wine, healed lepers, conceived by a virgin mother Mary, fed the 5000, gave eyesight to the blind, cured cripples etc etc.
All farcical beyond belief, yet billions attend mass every Sunday to offer 'thanks and praise'. Go figure. Brainwashing is still rife.

I'm under no illusion that the Holocaust never happened, of course it did, in fact i know people who were closely associated with all the atrocities that took place, but history is steeped with contortion of events, alteration of truths etc - and the whole Jesus thing is just one example.

Unless you were there, you don't and cannot know. It's that simple.
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So that is :

"who knows"

""of course it did"

"unless you were there, you don't and cannot know"

all in the space of the same post. I'm glad you cleared that up. 😊
 
RONJI said:
I'm referring to specifics, of course. Try harder Edited - abuse
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😊

I'd love you to clarify what that means though. Does it matter whether it was six million, or five and a half ? Gassed or shot? Jewish or Gentile?

Do you really need answers to these questions before taking a moral stance? You almost sound as though you're saying "you had to be there, really". You're not, are you?
 
basilrobbie said:
😊

I'd love you to clarify what that means though. Does it matter whether it was six million, or five and a half ? Gassed or shot? Jewish or Gentile?

Do you really need answers to these questions before taking a moral stance? You almost sound as though you're saying "you had to be there, really". You're not, are you?
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You contraticted yourself there BRR2

Agreed
That's the basis of our repugnance of genocide, it does not matter how many millions were murdered.
The whole concept of genocide is repugnant.

But by insisting on a specific accurate yet unproven figure, the factual evidence will always be challenged.
 
Don_K_Lasher said:
You contraticted yourself there BRR2

Agreed
That's the basis of our repugnance of genocide, it does not matter how many millions were murdered.
The whole concept of genocide is repugnant.

But by insisting on a specific accurate yet unproven figure, the factual evidence will always be challenged.
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You obviously didn't watch Baddiel. He argued that denial begins with chipping away at the detail, and quibbling about minor anomalies. And I think he is right.

This is quite a long way from the fatuous Jesus analogy used by RONJI, however. I don't think that was based upon any desire to deny anything. Just contrariness for the sake of it.
 
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