Covid Enquiry - Johnson 's negligence , lack of human feeling.

A

Always tangerine

Well-known member
The Covid enquiry through the interrogation by Hugo Keith KC , even with missing Whatsapps and emails is picking up the gross incompetence , negligence, and heartless approach by Johnson in Government management of Covid in 2020.

The detailed information is widely in print although I imagine not in all newspapers ! Just a few points below.

February 2020 was a key month to prepare and implement a Government covid strategy Johnson was missing for 10 days that month on leave ( unclear what he was doing ) and missed 5 Cobra meetings around that time. He also missed another meeting on 14 March for Carrie's baby shower . Clearly no leadership at a key point ( and later )

Keith stated by 26 February 2020 all the information was available to realise the need for action but it was another 3.5 weeks before a full lockdown was ordered on 23 March.
Simon Case diary -quotes from messages saying Johnson is “weak and indecisive. Constantly changing positions.

The worst perhaps - Johnson ruled out a second nationwide lockdown in 2020 because the median age of those dying is 82 - "above life expectancy"
Quotes :
"I no longer buy all this nhs overwhelmed stuff"
"We may need to recalibrate...there are max 3m in this country aged over 80"
He was quite open about willingness to sacrifice the lives of anyone over 80 as worth it to avoid damage to the Economy.
It will be interesting to see him getting a no nonsense interrogation when he is called to give evidence. Has no credibility, no morality.
 
Always tangerine said:
The Covid enquiry through the interrogation by Hugo Keith KC , even with missing Whatsapps and emails is picking up the gross incompetence , negligence, and heartless approach by Johnson in Government management of Covid in 2020.

The detailed information is widely in print although I imagine not in all newspapers ! Just a few points below.

February 2020 was a key month to prepare and implement a Government covid strategy Johnson was missing for 10 days that month on leave ( unclear what he was doing ) and missed 5 Cobra meetings around that time. He also missed another meeting on 14 March for Carrie's baby shower . Clearly no leadership at a key point ( and later )

Keith stated by 26 February 2020 all the information was available to realise the need for action but it was another 3.5 weeks before a full lockdown was ordered on 23 March.
Simon Case diary -quotes from messages saying Johnson is “weak and indecisive. Constantly changing positions.

The worst perhaps - Johnson ruled out a second nationwide lockdown in 2020 because the median age of those dying is 82 - "above life expectancy"
Quotes :
"I no longer buy all this nhs overwhelmed stuff"
"We may need to recalibrate...there are max 3m in this country aged over 80"
He was quite open about willingness to sacrifice the lives of anyone over 80 as worth it to avoid damage to the Economy.
It will be interesting to see him getting a no nonsense interrogation when he is called to give evidence. Has no credibility, no morality.
Click to expand...
There is another thread already going, but many good points.
 
We should start a petition where if Boris or his family pass 80 years old they get euthanised.
Always knew he was narcissistic and probably sociopathic, but his lack of even basic empathy, is, I was going to say surprising, but it really isn't.
 
Always tangerine said:
The worst perhaps - Johnson ruled out a second nationwide lockdown in 2020 because the median age of those dying is 82 - "above life expectancy"
Quotes :
"I no longer buy all this nhs overwhelmed stuff"
"We may need to recalibrate...there are max 3m in this country aged over 80"
He was quite open about willingness to sacrifice the lives of anyone over 80 as worth it to avoid damage to the Economy.
It will be interesting to see him getting a no nonsense interrogation when he is called to give evidence. Has no credibility, no morality
Click to expand...

I seem to remember that we had a second and third lockdown in 2020, so "ruled out" is stretching things.

It's a reasonable question, and one that deserves an answer, that answer being that the risk from dying from Covid is proportional to the risk of you dying from any other cause.

So, for example, if you are 40 years old, your risk of death in any one year is roughly 1/1,000, if you're 80 years old it's more like 1/20, what Covid does is change the risks to 1/750 and 1/15 respectively, so whatever your age, you are 25% more likely to die in that year, but from a statistical point of view, the median age of death is unchanged.

It's a mistake I've seen repeated on here and elsewhere endlessly, and for those who don't have a high level of statistical training it's easy to see how that mistake can be made, it took me a fair while to work out, and Mr Johnson has nowhere near my level of knowledge in this area.

But maybe you don't want PMs who ask questions.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I seem to remember that we had a second and third lockdown in 2020, so "ruled out" is stretching things.

It's a reasonable question, and one that deserves an answer, that answer being that the risk from dying from Covid is proportional to the risk of you dying from any other cause.

So, for example, if you are 40 years old, your risk of death in any one year is roughly 1/1,000, if you're 80 years old it's more like 1/20, what Covid does is change the risks to 1/750 and 1/15 respectively, so whatever your age, you are 25% more likely to die in that year, but from a statistical point of view, the median age of death is unchanged.

It's a mistake I've seen repeated on here and elsewhere endlessly, and for those who don't have a high level of statistical training it's easy to see how that mistake can be made, it took me a fair while to work out, and Mr Johnson has nowhere near my level of knowledge in this area.

But maybe you don't want PMs who ask questions.
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Everyone close to him is saying he was completely unsuitable to deal with the crisis but still you defend him.

Unbelievable.

He's a callous, self serving ** and would have thousands of deaths on his conscience, if only he had one.

It's obvious he didn't ask questions, he avoided them, going on holiday (twice), skipping Cobra meetings, writing a book that has never seen the light of day etc etc.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I seem to remember that we had a second and third lockdown in 2020, so "ruled out" is stretching things.

It's a reasonable question, and one that deserves an answer, that answer being that the risk from dying from Covid is proportional to the risk of you dying from any other cause.

So, for example, if you are 40 years old, your risk of death in any one year is roughly 1/1,000, if you're 80 years old it's more like 1/20, what Covid does is change the risks to 1/750 and 1/15 respectively, so whatever your age, you are 25% more likely to die in that year, but from a statistical point of view, the median age of death is unchanged.

It's a mistake I've seen repeated on here and elsewhere endlessly, and for those who don't have a high level of statistical training it's easy to see how that mistake can be made, it took me a fair while to work out, and Mr Johnson has nowhere near my level of knowledge in this area.

But maybe you don't want PMs who ask questions.
Click to expand...
Well he didn't ask questions at the COBRA meetings he missed and the 10 days he went missing in February. If he had done he might have been educated on quite simple statistics.

He should never have been anywhere near the top of government as all the previous information from his 'career' had demonstrated. But the Tory cheerleaders in the press and social media helped put him there.

I would hope all those cheerleaders will be reflecting on their part in putting him into power but somehow I doubt it.
 
bollieboy said:
Well he didn't ask questions at the COBRA meetings he missed and the 10 days he went missing in February. If he had done he might have been educated on quite simple statistics.

He should never have been anywhere near the top of government as all the previous information from his 'career' had demonstrated. But the Tory cheerleaders in the press and social media helped put him there.

I would hope all those cheerleaders will be reflecting on their part in putting him into power but somehow I doubt it.
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And are still angling for him to return as some kind of Messiah.

They keep saying 'He got the big decisions right '.

In what way? This enquiry is making it clear it was an utter shambles with no coherent response other than a chance for cronies to make literally billions from the taxpayer. I've yet to see a single day's evidence saying that anything was done well, or on time.
 
Ollygon said:
There is another thread already going, but many good points.
Click to expand...
I realised there was another thread but it felt right for me to focus on Johnson. Apologies. So many were duped by him.His lack of morality, seriousness and inability to apply himself to such a major problem have cost us dear. You have both him and the awful Cummins intertwined on this and Brexit which was a preoccupation at that time. Not clear if Johnson appointed Cummings or Cummings got him elected. Seems that in Feb 2020 he was preoccupied with his Shakespeare book ( never published) , sorting out his divorce settlement , finances etc and decoration of his flat.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I seem to remember that we had a second and third lockdown in 2020, so "ruled out" is stretching things.

It's a reasonable question, and one that deserves an answer, that answer being that the risk from dying from Covid is proportional to the risk of you dying from any other cause.

So, for example, if you are 40 years old, your risk of death in any one year is roughly 1/1,000, if you're 80 years old it's more like 1/20, what Covid does is change the risks to 1/750 and 1/15 respectively, so whatever your age, you are 25% more likely to die in that year, but from a statistical point of view, the median age of death is unchanged.

It's a mistake I've seen repeated on here and elsewhere endlessly, and for those who don't have a high level of statistical training it's easy to see how that mistake can be made, it took me a fair while to work out, and Mr Johnson has nowhere near my level of knowledge in this area.

But maybe you don't want PMs who ask questions.
Click to expand...
You come out with all your statistics and patronising posts but seem to have little concept of what is moral or indeed the truth about who this guy is. You ignore his reported comments indicating that people of 80 plus are expendable and pick on a few words in my post.If you can defend Johnson after all this Im flabbergasted.

If you have been watching the Covid enquiry or indeed the reports with transcripts, youll have plenty of information to consider from the comments from senior civil servants as to how he behaved . That includes his unfounded overconfidence on how the UK would deal with Covid and ridiculing the Italian reaction after the terrible situation in Lombardy.
( dont expect me to " debate " further with you on this. I know when Im wasting my time).
 
More jaw dropping evidence today from Helen MacNamara, and then Prof David Halpern.

OK Helen MacNamara was fined for breaking the lockdown rules, but what was staggering was she said she couldn't recall one single day when the rules weren't broken in Number 10. She was the 2nd most senior Civil Servant in the country, and incurred the expletive ridden tirade from Cummings for trying to reign him in.

She said there was an all pervasive super confident, macho and mysogynistic attitude in Number 10. Cummings and Co thought it was hilarious when Italy had things so bad at the start of the epidemic. I'm afraid this is symptomatic of these morons working on Brexit, and treating foreigners with disdain.

What was even more startling was the evidence from Professor Halpern, a Behavioural Psychologist. He was brought in to advise on the public's likely behaviour as the epidemic took off. His advice seemed to be right at all times, but was sadly dismissed by some other scientists and doctors, and also by Cummings and Johnson - until it was too late.

Again Johnson and Cummings wouldn't accept what other countries were doing successfully - until it was too late.

They thought that because they were pushing through Brexit they were infallible. Their fundamental character flaws led to the unnecessary deaths of thousands of people.

I think Johnson should face criminal charges for the deaths of these people. He was supposed to be leading the Government (that's a joke) so the buck should stop with him.

I'm afraid there were also many posters on here who religiously parroted the Johnson line. Maybe they should be charged as co-conspirators?
 
Always tangerine said:
I realised there was another thread but it felt right for me to focus on Johnson. Apologies. So many were duped by him.His lack of morality, seriousness and inability to apply himself to such a major problem have cost us dear. You have both him and the awful Cummins intertwined on this and Brexit which was a preoccupation at that time. Not clear if Johnson appointed Cummings or Cummings got him elected. Seems that in Feb 2020 he was preoccupied with his Shakespeare book ( never published) , sorting out his divorce settlement , finances etc and decoration of his flat.
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Don't apologise.

I've posted on this thread now.
 
It's shocking.
The cabinet secretary, Simon Case, a civil servant, openly saying on WhatsApp that the PM is useless and that he keeps changing direction making it impossible to do anything. Complete chaos at the heart of government during a national crisis, it's a scandal.
Surely this should be enough to silence the Johnson fan club - basically the people who Johnson himself appointed thought that he was a disaster as PM and mishandled the pandemic.
Complete shit-show.
And then the same party gave us Liz Truss.
Unfit to govern, we need an election asap.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
It's shocking.
The cabinet secretary, Simon Case, a civil servant, openly saying on WhatsApp that the PM is useless and that he keeps changing direction making it impossible to do anything. Complete chaos at the heart of government during a national crisis, it's a scandal.
Surely this should be enough to silence the Johnson fan club - basically the people who Johnson himself appointed thought that he was a disaster as PM and mishandled the pandemic.
Complete shit-show.
And then the same party gave us Liz Truss.
Unfit to govern, we need an election asap.
Click to expand...
It really isn't shocking anymore, its not as though (call me Dave) Cameron reached anything like the height of basic competence, that's why he ended up with the referendum to try and secure his own position, because he really had no clue what he was doing. Theresa May, good grief when she was made PM I thought at the time that we were scraping a barrel, but no; along comes Bojo; the partly house trained and perpetually priapic circus baboon, with his bi polar ringmaster Dominic Cummins. Again when the dishevelled one finally resigned, i could not have imagined that the two best candidates that the Tory party would put up would be Liz Truss or Rishi effing Sunak.

I've seen in various media outlets that Suella (i have a dream) Braverman, and Pritti (vacant) Patel think they might make a good PM, and might be pushing for the Tories to oust Sunak and put one of them in. And of course the Nigel (man of the people, (not) banking at Couttes) Farage thinks he's also got a chance.

I wonder if I post my cat's litter box over to conservative party HQ, that it might have the requisite qualifications to lead the party and hence the country.

I used to think Blair and Brown were a couple of shysters, who have done untold damage to the country and to the political system with their spin and lies, but this generation of conservatives even when you look at someone like Rory Stewart, who's generally an individual who can exhibit a semblance of empathy and intelligence has got some rather dodgy right wing think tank connections including leadership of one of them, which hes done a very good job of brushing under the sofa.

the whole system needs to change
 
What we have to think about is that the Tory Party actually elected BoJo as their leader and PM.
Are they sane?
He bamboozled his way to the top.
But let's not forget that the majority of Tory MPs voted him in.
 
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