Damning Parliamentary Report on COVID 19.

ElBurroSinNombre said:
Cat was asking why you don't pick other people up on here who frequently call Blair a war criminal in the same way that you pick Cat up when he calls Johnson criminally negligent.
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Possibly because Bliar was advised that there were NO Weapons of Mass Destruction, but deliberately went against advice and intelligence basically to look good with his buddies in the USA, contrary to Boris who maintains he did act on Scientific advice at the time, and for all his failings still managed to oversee the Positivity which was the Vaccine rollout.

Poles apart with the mindset, but quite understandably why the twisted political mind of Cat would use it to have a go with their particular agenda.
 
Lost Seasider said:
The testimony was televised and I watched a lot of it, particularly the bits involving the CSA and CMO.

The bits I'm calling out now are exactly what I noticed at the time, the fact that the chair seemed to believe that we could have avoided it all if we'd simply followed the Korean system was obvious, it was also bulls***.
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Good, I appreciate someone who comes back with the evidence of having witnessed stuff. That said, the report doesn't say that about the Korean experience. It says that other countries' experiences - including that of Korea - should have been taken into account.
 
Malced said:
I’ve not read the report but have heard lots of media discussion including interviews with MPs and others.

What I’ve picked up so far is:-
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The biggest failure, which I suspect is not being picked up by the media, was around information systems, the NHS trusts simply weren't reporting case numbers quickly enough and consistently enough for SAGE to form a proper picture of what was going on and ended up relying upon outdated information which misled them as to where we were.

If SAGE had better information they would likely have triggered a partial lockdown in the first week of March, which might have been sufficient to avoid a full lockdown and if that didn't work then measures could be tightened further.

The other possible failure was in not ramping testing up fast enough, although the report provides no explanation as to why that was the case and if it would've been technically feasible, I suspect that in the early days SAGE and others simply did not understand the scale of testing that would be required.
 
seasideone said:
Yet again Cats - please post a link to his conviction for "criminal negligence"?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing when you face something you never have before.

..and for the record, I think Boris is an idiot!
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Greg Clark - one of the reporting committee's chairs - noted that whilst there is hindsight involved, it is still important to use it in order to learn lessons.
 
Johnson really isn't serious about politics, its a means to an end. He'll cash in when his time is up, he'll earn millions. There are plenty of tories who could do a better job, I might not agree with some of their policies but they're credible. I wasn't a fan of Hunt when he was health Secretary but he'd take the role of PM seriously and give it the respect it deserves, Dominic Grieve was another. The tories have been hijacked by the swivel eyed loons of the ERG a mix of born liars and simpletons.
 
Lost Seasider said:
The biggest failure, which I suspect is not being picked up by the media, was around information systems, the NHS trusts simply weren't reporting case numbers quickly enough and consistently enough for SAGE to form a proper picture of what was going on and ended up relying upon outdated information which misled them as to where we were.

If SAGE had better information they would likely have triggered a partial lockdown in the first week of March, which might have been sufficient to avoid a full lockdown and if that didn't work then measures could be tightened further.

The other possible failure was in not ramping testing up fast enough, although the report provides no explanation as to why that was the case and if it would've been technically feasible, I suspect that in the early days SAGE and others simply did not understand the scale of testing that would be required.
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Yes, I recall the scandal of them using Excel Spreadsheets - and not even the latest version of Excel at that - in the early days, 65536 rows being the maximum rows you could import which probably rang a bell with developers all over the country - which led to massive under reporting.

But there was also the scandal of the NHS App they trialled in the IOW but ignored advice to follow the Apple/Google collaboration and ended up scrapping everything - despite offers from Germany to use their design as a model.

There are too many instances of “British Exceptionalism” taking over good sense and good advice from other Countries that were ahead of the Covid curve.

That’s just two examples of course that have undoubtedly been learnt from and surely this is the purpose of the report. It just so happens its was/is Tory Government in charge at the time and they are the ones that are going to have to suck up the criticism this time, but hopefully everyone is learning lessons for when the inevitable happens again in the future and we will all be better prepared.
 
Shandypants said:
Johnson really isn't serious about politics, its a means to an end. He'll cash in when his time is up, he'll earn millions. There are plenty of tories who could do a better job, I might not agree with some of their policies but they're credible. I wasn't a fan of Hunt when he was health Secretary but he'd take the role of PM seriously and give it the respect it deserves, Dominic Grieve was another. The tories have been hijacked by the swivel eyed loons of the ERG a mix of born liars and simpletons.
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I will never be a Tory but I agree with your post. There are more credible Tory MPs, including those you mention. I also agree that, at the moment, the lunatics are in charge of the asylum. As for Johnson, he wants to be a big cheese in the history books. Unfortunately for him he is likely to be over-shadowed by the prat Cameron; the man who let the genie out of the bottle.
 
Bottle said:
Yes, I recall the scandal of them using Excel Spreadsheets - and not even the latest version of Excel at that - in the early days, 65536 rows being the maximum rows you could import which probably rang a bell with developers all over the country - which led to massive under reporting.

But there was also the scandal of the NHS App they trialled in the IOW but ignored advice to follow the Apple/Google collaboration and ended up scrapping everything - despite offers from Germany to use their design as a model.

There are too many instances of “British Exceptionalism” taking over good sense and good advice from other Countries that were ahead of the Covid curve.

That’s just two examples of course that have undoubtedly been learnt from and surely this is the purpose of the report. It just so happens its was/is Tory Government in charge at the time and they are the ones that are going to have to suck up the criticism this time, but hopefully everyone is learning lessons for when the inevitable happens again in the future and we will all be better prepared.
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To be fair to Labour Bottle, Starmer was banging the drum about test and trace for ages. Also, the need to be cautious about opening things up. But what did we get? Eat out to help get a second lock down. Bring on Christmas to ensure a third lockdown. The man is and always will be a mad populist who has nothing sensible to say.
 
Bottle said:
Yes, I recall the scandal of them using Excel Spreadsheets - and not even the latest version of Excel at that - in the early days, 65536 rows being the maximum rows you could import which probably rang a bell with developers all over the country - which led to massive under reporting.
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That wasn't a scandal

Using Excel is not what you would want to do, but a proper system would've taken months to set up thus it was a case of use Excel or use nothing at all, and to be fair that Excel spreadsheet did sterling work for the first few months and once the error was spotted and fixed continued to work well until the new system finally came online.

A round of applause for the spreadsheet is in order.


Bottle said:
But there was also the scandal of the NHS App they trialled in the IOW but ignored advice to follow the Apple/Google collaboration and ended up scrapping everything - despite offers from Germany to use their design as a model.
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I'm sure there were good reasons for that at the time, and in the grand scheme of things the sums involved were less than a rounding error.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Good, I appreciate someone who comes back with the evidence of having witnessed stuff. That said, the report doesn't say that about the Korean experience. It says that other countries' experiences - including that of Korea - should have been taken into account.
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That was me reading between the lines, plus impressions formed from the questions asked.

In fact the more I think about it the more the report stinks, they're basically saying they know better than dozens of highly qualified experts in the field, even with the benefit of hindsight think about that for a minute.
 
Lost Seasider said:
That wasn't a scandal

Using Excel is not what you would want to do, but a proper system would've taken months to set up thus it was a case of use Excel or use nothing at all, and to be fair that Excel spreadsheet did sterling work for the first few months and once the error was spotted and fixed continued to work well until the new system finally came online.

A round of applause for the spreadsheet is in order.




I'm sure there were good reasons for that at the time, and in the grand scheme of things the sums involved were less than a rounding error.
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It’s a scandal that Spreadsheets were being used to do the work of a relational database that would take a day tops to normalise and create, if its on a Spreadsheet it wouldn’t be that complex. Properly coded queries would have chopped and dice that data any number of ways and the number of rows would have been, to all intents and purposes, unlimited.

The right tools for the right job, Spreadsheets are not meant for serious database usage - so go VLookup that!
 
Curryman said:
Balance and cat is the best oxymoron I've seen on this site. his left wing diatrab and peculier outlook on life, particularly as a teacher, is the main reason I have banned his posts. I sometimes wonder how people in certain jobs get away with spouting their left or right wing politics, when I'm sure their contracts of employment state they shouldn't.
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What a load of bollocks.
 
Bottle said:
It’s a scandal that Spreadsheets were being used to do the work of a relational database that would take a day tops to normalise and create, if its on a Spreadsheet it wouldn’t be that complex. Properly coded queries would have chopped and dice that data any number of ways and the number of rows would have been, to all intents and purposes, unlimited.

The right tools for the right job, Spreadsheets are not meant for serious database usage - so go VLookup that!
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Problem is that they didn't have anybody in the office who knew how to do that, didn't have the time to recruit anyone who did and so fell back onto the people and tools they did have and that worked well enough until something better could be developed.

I would've done the same thing myself in that situation.
 
This is exactly why the clown has buggered off on holiday. By the time he gets back to the circus all focus will be on the collapse of the gas supply industry, cargo ships being turned away from our ports and the lack of basic foods, like milk, because of the state of the HGV driving sector.
There’s no hiding from the fact that over 150,000 people needlessly died because of Boris the clowns reluctance to act soon enough to the pandemic because he was to arrogant to listen to people who knew better. For that alone he is fully responsible for those unavoidable deaths and should be made to pay the price. The guy is not fit to be PM and as every day passes he proves it time and time again.
 
Curryman said:
Balance and cat is the best oxymoron I've seen on this site. his left wing diatrab and peculier outlook on life, particularly as a teacher, is the main reason I have banned his posts. I sometimes wonder how people in certain jobs get away with spouting their left or right wing politics, when I'm sure their contracts of employment state they shouldn't.
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Curryman takes careful aim ..... and fires at the wrong target.

Quite a bit of bullying going on here.
 
Lost Seasider said:
The biggest failure, which I suspect is not being picked up by the media, was around information systems, the NHS trusts simply weren't reporting case numbers quickly enough and consistently enough for SAGE to form a proper picture of what was going on and ended up relying upon outdated information which misled them as to where we were.

If SAGE had better information they would likely have triggered a partial lockdown in the first week of March, which might have been sufficient to avoid a full lockdown and if that didn't work then measures could be tightened further.

The other possible failure was in not ramping testing up fast enough, although the report provides no explanation as to why that was the case and if it would've been technically feasible, I suspect that in the early days SAGE and others simply did not understand the scale of testing that would be required.
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The detail is damaging according to ITV news. The advice was to lock down in early February but ignored. That's fairly clear.

Similarly no real apology to the family of the dead.
 
The worst public health response in UK history. Not one apology from a Minister. No one takes responsibility. 150,000 dead, 800 still die every week. Worst infection rate in Europe, No resignations and our corrupt, criminally negligent liar of a Prime Minister sits sunning himself in a millionaires villa in Spain. That's Great Britain under the Conservatives for you.
 
It's pretty obvious to almost everyone that the buck must one day stop with the albino pig, there's nothing left or right wing about it just plain common sense ,the guy is an incompetent eliteist idiot who s just taking the piss.
 
One of the points made in the report was lack of planning for a pandemic and Jeremy Hunt which stood up and detailed their report was health secretary for 6 years but didn't appear to accept any responsibilty when he was health sec. Lots of mistakes were made but the important thing is to plan for when it happens again to be better prepared. Send a massive bill to China so the money can be used for planning as it must have leaked from the lab.
 
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