Derek Chauvin....

Tangerinemoss said:
If you read the trial record, several of his superiors and trainers refute this. It was not an approved restraint technique in this Police area.
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Ok fair enough it’s just I’ve seen it used before and if they are doing this completely illegally then they should face the consequences of their actions.
 
Sooty59 said:
I never said that police can’t react in an appropriate way given the circumstances, based on proper professional training.
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Of course but I thought that was already the case.
If black people in the US feel victimised by police then that absolutely should be dealt with.
The point I’m making (and I know I’m banging my head against a brick wall here) is the racism element attached to David Chauvin. As if he seems to be shouldering all the years of police racism over the years. Yes he killed him and absolutely should be punished for that but why racism? Because he’s white and the victim black? Do we know for certain this manslaughter was racially motivated and had it been a white person the outcome would be different?
 
King Billy said:
Of course but I thought that was already the case.
If black people in the US feel victimised by police then that absolutely should be dealt with.
The point I’m making (and I know I’m banging my head against a brick wall here) is the racism element attached to David Chauvin. As if he seems to be shouldering all the years of police racism over the years. Yes he killed him and absolutely should be punished for that but why racism? Because he’s white and the victim black? Do we know for certain this manslaughter was racially motivated and had it been a white person the outcome would be different?
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There’s no doubt he killed him, but during the first three months of this year, 231 people were shot by police in America, 30 of whom were black. All tragic, probably unnecessary deaths, but not one mention of any who were white.
 
SeasideKurt said:
The underlying racist comments on this board ** piss me off. They're so blatant.

Anyone who saw any clips from this shows the situation and what was going on, there's no grey area here. It's murder. Whether he's a rapist, thieves from primark or has broken the speed limit, that cop has a duty to him and the public. And he failed and has rightly gone to prison. There's no discussion about the rights or wrongs here.
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Or is it most people do not have any sympathy for a bloody criminal. There was none of this fuss when Tony Timpa died under similar circumstances in 2019. I had no sympathy with him and I have no sympathy with Floyd. Everythings about bloody race with some people.
 
EagleDay said:
Or is it most people do not have any sympathy for a bloody criminal. There was none of this fuss when Tony Timpa died under similar circumstances in 2019. I had no sympathy with him and I have no sympathy with Floyd. Everythings about bloody race with some people.
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Nah, you're just talking absolute bollocks.
 
EagleDay said:
Or is it most people do not have any sympathy for a bloody criminal. There was none of this fuss when Tony Timpa died under similar circumstances in 2019. I had no sympathy with him and I have no sympathy with Floyd. Everythings about bloody race with some people.
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I wasn’t aware of the Tony Timpa death, (2016 not 2019). Not sure why you call him a criminal. Criminals don’t usually call 911 and ask for help.

This police ‘murder’, thrown out of court by the judge, was arguably worse than what happened to George Floyd, but it’s not a competition, Eagle

 
For me personally it’s ok to have little respect for Floyd because of his past violent crimes. I don’t harbour respect for him, why would I.
I think we should judge a person on how they lived their life, not on how they died, so I have no issue with not respecting the man.
By the same token the verdict is correct in my eyes because you can’t murder a criminal who is not, at that juncture, in a position to cause danger.
So again, for balance, you can dislike a man who is murdered yet still agree that his murderer be sentenced appropriately.
 
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Recidivist3 said:
I wasn’t aware of the Tony Timpa death, (2016 not 2019). Not sure why you call him a criminal. Criminals don’t usually call 911 and ask for help.

This police ‘murder’, thrown out of court by the judge, was arguably worse than what happened to George Floyd, but it’s not a competition, Eagle

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Yep sorry about that, a detail I had forgotten. But I didn't mention it for competition, just sick of hearing people say this does not happen to white victims and make everything about race.
 
Wizaard said:
Well that changes everything. Deserved to die.
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Sorry you think that, I certainly don't. My observation was in response to a false accusation made by a poster, similar to the one you made previously which again I retorted to with a fact, which you have failed to respond to.

My previous posts support Chauvin being guilty, and a travesty that Floyd died from his actions.
 
EagleDay said:
Or is it most people do not have any sympathy for a bloody criminal. There was none of this fuss when Tony Timpa died under similar circumstances in 2019. I had no sympathy with him and I have no sympathy with Floyd. Everythings about bloody race with some people.
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If your thin veneer of fair mindedness, was any thinner, it would only have one side!
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
Justice in the USA...?
You only have to read the reason why there were 3 felony charges and not just one for murder...This will show why there's no such thing as justice.

Each state has it's own laws....if the murder was committed in another state....it could have been the death penalty

In Minnesota....they had to pick 3 similar (but totally different) murder 2 & 3 charges, just so he wouldn't get off in a technicality of 'not proven'
And if they failed to prove that in court, they cant try a second time...even if he confessed....It's Double Jeopardy

He's (likely) to get 20 years (the highest time they can give).....but he will only serve 75% of the total conviction (at the most) 8 years in a correctional facility....the rest on license...(at home with his family)

Minnesota even have a jail already picked out.....which already houses other Policemen.....Think about it.......a jail that's reserved for Police..... 😳

He's likely to do 2 - 3 years in that jail and then be moved to a low category jail.....Minnesota Police federation have already agreed to act as his fund for legal costs (and will pay him a pension) and will no doubt push for release in 3+ years on licenses and then the re-housing of him and his family outside of the state.

So justice........seen to be done.......but is it......If you have the money to pay for it, you can do minimum time for your crime
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In those 8 years he will be the play thing of the Sisters of B Wing though.
I certainly hope he has a love for nightly beatings as he better get used to it
 
King Billy said:
I really cannot argue against any of that.

Fine, white man in authority kills innocent unarmed black man in clear and obvious racially motivated attack. I’ll just stick to the narrative next time.
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Or if you like, policeman responding to a misdemeanour kills member of the public who is already restrained and pleading for his life.

How's that for a ** narrative for you?
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Or if you like, policeman responding to a misdemeanour kills member of the public who is already restrained and pleading for his life.

How's that for a ** narrative for you?
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I’m not saying he didn’t kill him and shouldn’t be charged for it.
Fucks sake
 
Matesrates said:
There’s no doubt he killed him, but during the first three months of this year, 231 people were shot by police in America, 30 of whom were black. All tragic, probably unnecessary deaths, but not one mention of any who were white.
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OMG im going to sound like Seside2020 and ask Matesrates where he got his stats from and a link to them
Because the real stats are......HERE (it does have a paywall, but you can see the facts are)

212 people were shot and killed by Police since Jan 2021
50 White
30 Black
20 Hispanic..........SO, 50/50 for Whites V Racial minorities

and there were 112 Unknown.......but following the same % breakdown above.........that would see 56 as white and 56 as Black & Hispanic
So in 2021 you could say........106 White and 106 Black/Hispanic....have been shot and killed by Police

And as Blacks & Hispanics make up just 14% of the population of the USA.......that should average out as just 23 out of 212......but it's the same......
Maybe the only time you ever hear about white people being shot by Police.....They are usually doing School shootings!!!!
 
King Billy said:
He was resisting arrest and he used a technique he was trained to do to restrain him.

So if you were a white copper in America and you need to use restraint to arrest a black man are you now telling me they won’t think twice?

This is a huge victory for BLM.
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How much force is required when someone is handcuffed with their hands behind their back ?
 
They already had him restrained on the ground so why did they not just get him in the car, also don’t get why the other two cops didn’t say to Chauvin ok leave off now we got him, but let him kneel on his neck for 9 fackn minutes!
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
Floyd was charged with aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon - hardly a petty crime
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The problem is though-and it's a cross racial issue- is this sort of misdemeanour is prevalent in US society, so a gun toting populus is getting the sort of life it deserves.
Set that against a backdrop where black people tend to reflect citizens touched by poverty, so its them who bear the brunt of the injustice and prejudice.

Really glad I dont live over there nor would I want to be a black US citizen
 
King Billy said:
He was resisting arrest and he used a technique he was trained to do to restrain him.

So if you were a white copper in America and you need to use restraint to arrest a black man are you now telling me they won’t think twice?

This is a huge victory for BLM.
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Resisting arrest! Not for 9 minutes ** minutes he wasn’t was he 🙄

He was on the floor with his hands tied behind his back with at least two armed police officers with him.

Correct result from the independent jury.
 
Seasider3610 said:
Resisting arrest! Not for 9 minutes ** minutes he wasn’t was he 🙄

He was on the floor with his hands tied behind his back with at least two armed police officers with him.

Correct result from the independent jury.
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Does anyone actually read what’s put before responding?
 
Wizaard said:
His previous record is being used to justify killing him on here.
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I’ve not seen Floyds criminal past (although I believe one is armed robbery?) so no idea if it is relevant.
In some cases though, would you agree a suspects criminal past is relevant to how you detain them? For example if you were pursuing someone for suspicion of shooting someone and you had intel that suggested they were armed and you prematurely shoot them because they looked like they were reaching for something from there pocket. Is this murder or someone that panicked thinking of nothing but there wife and children and thinking they could leave this world in a split second?
As I say I haven’t seen Floyds criminal record but from the phone footage it clearly looks like they have him well “detained” and to keep his knee on his neck for such a period of time was completely reckless and wrong. But that’s all it was, a completely reckless act from an officer who is suppose to be protecting and serving the public, not killing them. Should he go to prison for the rest of his life? If the justice system says so then fine, I would have no problem with that. Was it a racially motivated murder? I really don’t think so.
 
“a technique he was trained to do to restrain him.”

They are certainly not trained to keep their knee on a persons neck until they die though are they.
 
The murder of George Floyd was the most cold-blooded scene I have ever witnessed. To watch someone purposely suffocated to death, whilst onlookers were unable to intervene and simply forced to watch and film as a young mans life slowly drifted away was absolutely horrific.... I struggle to understand how anyone could fail to be moved / horrified by the scenes that day.
 
King Billy said:
I’ve not seen Floyds criminal past (although I believe one is armed robbery?) so no idea if it is relevant.
In some cases though, would you agree a suspects criminal past is relevant to how you detain them? For example if you were pursuing someone for suspicion of shooting someone and you had intel that suggested they were armed and you prematurely shoot them because they looked like they were reaching for something from there pocket. Is this murder or someone that panicked thinking of nothing but there wife and children and thinking they could leave this world in a split second?
As I say I haven’t seen Floyds criminal record but from the phone footage it clearly looks like they have him well “detained” and to keep his knee on his neck for such a period of time was completely reckless and wrong. But that’s all it was, a completely reckless act from an officer who is suppose to be protecting and serving the public, not killing them. Should he go to prison for the rest of his life? If the justice system says so then fine, I would have no problem with that. Was it a racially motivated murder? I really don’t think so.
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The only person who knows if it was racially motivated is Derek Chauvin himself. Anything else is just guesswork and/or speculation

​

 
Seasider3610 said:
Maybe you want to explain your post more clearly.

I’ve just stated some facts.
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I thought I was being clear. You have stated facts but you are clearly inferring in your post I am trying to defend Chauvin.

Seasider3610 said:
“a technique he was trained to do to restrain him.”

They are certainly not trained to keep their knee on a persons neck until they die though are they.
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No but there you go again inferring I’m defending him. I’ve already referred to it as a reckless murder.
 
King Billy said:
I really cannot argue against any of that.

Fine, white man in authority kills innocent unarmed black man in clear and obvious racially motivated attack. I’ll just stick to the narrative next time.
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It's not 'the narrative', it's what any decent human being can see and rightly the correct verdict was given. Regardless of his innocence, the law doesn't allow you to be judge and executioner just because you wear a badge. Christ, there are some whoppers on here, King Billy.
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
It's not 'the narrative', it's what any decent human being can see and rightly the correct verdict was given. Regardless of his innocence, the law doesn't allow you to be judge and executioner just because you wear a badge. Christ, there are some whoppers on here, King Billy.
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I respect your opinion but I’m not explaining yet again. Peace ✌️
 
To be honest I'm not convinced it was racially motivated. It was a horrible act, I read somewhere that they new each other after working the doors at a nightclub and didn't get on.
 
King Billy said:
I’ve not seen Floyds criminal past (although I believe one is armed robbery?) so no idea if it is relevant.
In some cases though, would you agree a suspects criminal past is relevant to how you detain them? For example if you were pursuing someone for suspicion of shooting someone and you had intel that suggested they were armed and you prematurely shoot them because they looked like they were reaching for something from there pocket. Is this murder or someone that panicked thinking of nothing but there wife and children and thinking they could leave this world in a split second?
As I say I haven’t seen Floyds criminal record but from the phone footage it clearly looks like they have him well “detained” and to keep his knee on his neck for such a period of time was completely reckless and wrong. But that’s all it was, a completely reckless act from an officer who is suppose to be protecting and serving the public, not killing them. Should he go to prison for the rest of his life? If the justice system says so then fine, I would have no problem with that. Was it a racially motivated murder? I really don’t think so.
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Even though I have no sympathy with Floyd, when I first saw that video it seemed to me there was an attitude of sheer arrogance on the part of Chauvin when he saw somebody recording the incident. If there was any malice toward Floyd only Chauvin can answer that. But the question remains, why don't these clowns just comply when they are asked to do something? Arrogance on their part, maybe?
 
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Shandypants said:
To be honest I'm not convinced it was racially motivated. It was a horrible act, I read somewhere that they new each other after working the doors at a nightclub and didn't get on.
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For something that probably wasn’t racially motivated this guy has become the face for police racism and be seen as the straw that broke the camels back that started the BLM protests which consisted of flag burning, defacing war memorials and attacking police.
I get not all supporters of BLM will behave like that but this is what the media show and do you think this will help educate white English people not to be racist?

I just don’t see how all this is seen as positive moves towards racial equality.
 
EagleDay said:
If there was any malice toward Floyd only Chauvin can answer that.
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Actually I think I can answer that.

If you kneel on someone`s neck for over 9 minutes whilst they are begging you to stop and telling you they can`t breathe, I am pretty sure that can be filed under "malice"; i.e. the desire to cause harm...
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
How much force is required when someone is handcuffed with their hands behind their back ?
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Unfortunately Tim, that is a 'how long is a piece of string' comment. Ive known with experience, offenders who have flipped after taking narcotics and in particular 'ice', to be incredibly strong and very violent, even to be totally unaffected by the use of a Taser.
I however, appreciate this wasn't the case with Floyd, but officers could not be criticised for exercising caution with him.
A knee on his neck for over 9 minutes, does not constitute 'caution'
 
Bayern, I think your thread deserves to reach a century on a positive note. Biden has sworn to fight racism in America. They have the first ever black VP and there is optimism at last, after the sclerotic years of Trump. I only hope that every State can turn it's attention to training it's police force to confront suspects less aggressively and to be role models for their societies, not pretend gangsters from the movies.
 
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