Don't drive five miles for a walk....

From what I read there are quite a few employees complaining about being encouraged/forced to return to the office in all sorts of industries, when they are perfectly capable of working from home.

Can’t say I’m surprised to be honest given some of the views expressed on here.
 
It’s an absolute nightmare trying to run a business with people working from home tbh. So I can understand why desperate business owners are making poor decisions just to try and keep their business functioning.

I’ve heard a whole lot of people on here (particularly employees, who advocate working from home), but it’s starting to create problems, impact massively on productivity, training and development etc...

The economy needs to keep moving... We need to ensure the vehicles on our roads are safe and that the associated revenue in maintained... (life doesn’t stand still I’m afraid).

So there are compromises to be made .. That’s the real world for you unfortunately
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It’s an absolute nightmare trying to run a business with people working from home tbh. So I can understand why desperate business owners are making poor decisions just to try and keep their business functioning.

I’ve heard a whole lot of people on here (particularly employees, who advocate working from home), but it’s starting to create problems, impact massively on productivity, training and development etc...

The economy needs to keep moving... We need to ensure the vehicles on our roads are safe and that the associated revenue in maintained... (life doesn’t stand still I’m afraid).

So there are compromises to be made .. That’s the real world for you unfortunately
Click to expand...
Except this is the DVLA, not Bifster and Co.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It’s an absolute nightmare trying to run a business with people working from home tbh. So I can understand why desperate business owners are making poor decisions just to try and keep their business functioning.

I’ve heard a whole lot of people on here (particularly employees, who advocate working from home), but it’s starting to create problems, impact massively on productivity, training and development etc...

The economy needs to keep moving... We need to ensure the vehicles on our roads are safe and that the associated revenue in maintained... (life doesn’t stand still I’m afraid).

So there are compromises to be made .. That’s the real world for you unfortunately
Click to expand...
If you remember the first lockdown, MOTs were extended for 5 months amd garages were closed. What's changed since then in this lockdown?
 
It’s quite interesting reading comments by readers of online articles in various journals. There’s a definite split between those who think HW doesn’t affect (and may even increase) productivity and those who feel it definitely has a negative impact. And then there are those managers who just don’t trust their employees to WFH and are convinced they are using it as an opportunity to skive (which sorts of begs the question if they don’t trust them why did they employ them in the first place?). Then you rapidly descend into the pisspoor/dinosaur managers v the slackers arguments.

It goes without saying that every business is different but I imagine for most it’ll be a balance between home and office working, after consultation with the staff in the better run organisations. Obviously all of this assumes the employer can provide a safe working environment. And it also assumes it has the IT to allow HW. The problem for the DVLA is that it doesn’t seem to be able to do either.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Except this is the DVLA, not Bifster and Co.
Click to expand...
I get that, but the responsibilities of the DVLA don’t stop either...

It’s frustrating for everyone, but the wheels kind of need to keep turning.
Wizaard said:
If you remember the first lockdown, MOTs were extended for 5 months amd garages were closed. What's changed since then in this lockdown?
Click to expand...
What’s changed is that a situation that was anticipated to be short term, has developed into something much longer.

It’s all fine and dandy offering criticism from an armchair, but life can’t stop...
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I get that, but the responsibilities of the DVLA don’t stop either...

It’s frustrating for everyone, but the wheels kind of need to keep turning.

What’s changed is that a situation that was anticipated to be short term, has developed into something much longer.

It’s all fine and dandy offering criticism from an armchair, but life can’t stop...
Click to expand...
And as I keep saying, were not in a lockdown and just meandering along hoping the vaccine is the magic bullet.

A proper lockdown would reduce the pressure on the NHS far more than this compromise, and surely that's the point of this?

From the settee watching cricket😉
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I get that, but the responsibilities of the DVLA don’t stop either...

It’s frustrating for everyone, but the wheels kind of need to keep turning.

What’s changed is that a situation that was anticipated to be short term, has developed into something much longer.

It’s all fine and dandy offering criticism from an armchair, but life can’t stop...
Click to expand...
Well yeah. Except life can stop if you catch Covid.

A former work colleague of mine died of it on Christmas Eve. Aged 63.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
It’s quite interesting reading comments by readers of online articles in various journals. There’s a definite split between those who think HW doesn’t affect (and may even increase) productivity and those who feel it definitely has a negative impact. And then there are those managers who just don’t trust their employees to WFH and are convinced they are using it as an opportunity to skive (which sorts of begs the question if they don’t trust them why did they employ them in the first place?). Then you rapidly descend into the pisspoor/dinosaur managers v the slackers arguments.

It goes without saying that every business is different but I imagine for most it’ll be a balance between home and office working, after consultation with the staff in the better run organisations. Obviously all of this assumes the employer can provide a safe working environment. And it also assumes it has the IT to allow HW. The problem for the DVLA is that it doesn’t seem to be able to do either.
Click to expand...
There are some people who are mentally attuned to working better under office conditions and those who actually perform better out of them (my other half for instance). You can’t cater for both in a lockdown situation and that’s the real issue.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I get that, but the responsibilities of the DVLA don’t stop either...

It’s frustrating for everyone, but the wheels kind of need to keep turning.

What’s changed is that a situation that was anticipated to be short term, has developed into something much longer.

It’s all fine and dandy offering criticism from an armchair, but life can’t stop...
Click to expand...
Only in an armchair pal because we invested some budget in the tech to enable us to work from home, nothing has stopped work wise but no one is at risk unless we really need to go in service wise.

Do you understand the point? This is a government department contradicting the advice to save money while feeding all the 'public are to blame' stories to the media, what do Swansea do that they couldn't do at home, or over teams etc...?
 
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Mexboroseasider said:
It’s quite interesting reading comments by readers of online articles in various journals. There’s a definite split between those who think HW doesn’t affect (and may even increase) productivity and those who feel it definitely has a negative impact. And then there are those managers who just don’t trust their employees to WFH and are convinced they are using it as an opportunity to skive (which sorts of begs the question if they don’t trust them why did they employ them in the first place?). Then you rapidly descend into the pisspoor/dinosaur managers v the slackers arguments.

It goes without saying that every business is different but I imagine for most it’ll be a balance between home and office working, after consultation with the staff in the better run organisations. Obviously all of this assumes the employer can provide a safe working environment. And it also assumes it has the IT to allow HW. The problem for the DVLA is that it doesn’t seem to be able to do either.
Click to expand...
I’d imagine it depends on the sector you work in...

Is be interested to hear what business types feel productivity has improved (especially over a prolonged period)?

I can certainly think of circumstances where you might not trust employees to have the self-discipline to WFH, but would certainly still want to employ them... I’m not sure that’s mutually exclusive.

I can offer our personal experience and both staff and management are very much in agreement, that WFH is simply not workable long term.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I’d imagine it depends on the sector you work in...

Is be interested to hear what business types feel productivity has improved (especially over a prolonged period)?

I can certainly think of circumstances where you might not trust employees to have the self-discipline to WFH, but would certainly still want to employ them... I’m not sure that’s mutually exclusive.

I can offer our personal experience and both staff and management are very much in agreement, that WFH is simply not workable long term.
Click to expand...
I don't think we'll ever be back in the office, this is cheaper as we don't have to pay for space and we're not front line these days.
 
Wizaard said:
And as I keep saying, were not in a lockdown and just meandering along hoping the vaccine is the magic bullet.

A proper lockdown would reduce the pressure on the NHS far more than this compromise, and surely that's the point of this?

From the settee watching cricket😉
Click to expand...
Yes we are trying to strike a balance... It’s the right thing to do.
Mexboroseasider said:
Well yeah. Except life can stop if you catch Covid.

A former work colleague of mine died of it on Christmas Eve. Aged 63.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry for your former colleague and his family, but I’m not sure the ‘emotional’ aspect of individual cases, adds to the debate really.... unfortunately you have to detach yourself from that to a certain extent.
Lytham_fy8 said:
Only in an armchair pal because we invested some budget in the tech to enable us to work from home, nothing has stopped work wise but no one is at risk unless we really need to go in service wise.

Do you understand the point? This is a government department contradicting the advice to save money, what do Swansea do that they couldn't do at home, or over teams etc...?
Click to expand...
I’m not sure... There’s certainly plenty of things that our business can’t do from home or via teams... So essentially we are forced to tread water / go backwards....

My niece (living with us) currently working for benefits people, is required to go into work every day too.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I’d imagine it depends on the sector you work in...

Is be interested to hear what business types feel productivity has improved (especially over a prolonged period)?

I can certainly think of circumstances where you might not trust employees to have the self-discipline to WFH, but would certainly still want to employ them... I’m not sure that’s mutually exclusive.

I can offer our personal experience and both staff and management are very much in agreement, that WFH is simply not workable long term.
Click to expand...
Legal sector primarily (excluding Crime where attendance at police stations is unavoidable) but obviously even in that sector you’re going to get some firms that are better at remote working than others. And the more tech savvy, with open minded as opposed to Old School managers, seem to be the ones who have found WFH to be beneficial. But as has been pointed out I think different people are more attuned to HW than others. I’m sure I’d have missed the office environment to some extent, which is why I lean towards a balance of home and office rather than exclusively one or the other.

And I think you need to be very careful with employee feedback. There’s a lot of anecdotal evidence that employees are being “encouraged” towards the “right”’answer when asked about which they prefer.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
I don't think we'll ever be back in the office, this is cheaper as we don't have to pay for space and we're not front line these days.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately it’s the way many organisations are going. Almost impossible to find a human face behind so many of them.... Eventually you’ll be replaced by AI / technology altogether no doubt ... it’s a slippery slope.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Yes we are trying to strike a balance... It’s the right thing to do.

I’m sorry for your former colleague and his family, but I’m not sure the ‘emotional’ aspect of individual cases, adds to the debate really.... unfortunately you have to detach yourself from that to a certain extent.

I’m not sure... There’s certainly plenty of things that our business can’t do from home or via teams... So essentially we are forced to tread water / go backwards....

My niece (living with us) currently working for benefits people, is required to go into work every day too.
Click to expand...
Re the point about the “emotional”’aspect, I understand the need for objectivity, but there’s also something to be said for “the cold bath” experience you get when someone you know and like is a victim.

For instance, since retiring I’ve started a little sideline which could have involved a site meeting after Xmas. It was just before the lockdown and I sent an e mail to someone suggesting the new rules might still allow us to meet up. Shortly after sending the email I was told of the death of my former colleague and suddenly my thinking changed, and it wasn’t particularly down to fear. Suddenly I was thinking that, rather than trying to justify the meeting, I should instead be asking do we really need to do it? The meeting didn’t happen as a result.

I’ve often thought that to properly understand an issue, you need to understand it intellectually but also in your gut. And it’s that second element that comes from personal experience.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Legal sector primarily (excluding Crime where attendance at police stations is unavoidable) but obviously even in that sector you’re going to get some firms that are better at remote working than others. And the more tech savvy, with open minded as opposed to Old School managers, seem to be the ones who have found WFH to be beneficial. But as has been pointed out I think different people are more attuned to HW than others. I’m sure I’d have missed the office environment to some extent, which is why I lean towards a balance of home and office rather than exclusively one or the other.

And I think you need to be very careful with employee feedback. There’s a lot of anecdotal evidence that employees are being “encouraged” towards the “right”’answer when asked about which they prefer.
Click to expand...
I’m sure that you may need to be careful with employee feedback, but I’m confident that our employees are under no pressure to come up with a ‘right answer’...

The main issue volunteered but staff has been focused so n interpersonal relationships really... “Missing the banter” being something that has featured heavily (which ought to give some confidence that they aren’t simply saying what we want to hear.)....
 
HMRC have been told by the select committee to learn the lessons of the pandemic and rethink the switch to regional hubs. The other Departments will follow suit. We've been buying up surface pros and mac books like you wouldn't believe. Tens of thousands.

Working from home will become the norm with massive savings on office space in city centres and all the costs that brings. Plus it helps the eco debate with millions of less miles commuting.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Re the point about the “emotional”’aspect, I understand the need for objectivity, but there’s also something to be said for “the cold bath” experience you get when someone you know and like is a victim.

For instance, since retiring I’ve started a little sideline which could have involved a site meeting after Xmas. It was just before the lockdown and I sent an e mail to someone suggesting the new rules might still allow us to meet up. Shortly after sending the email I was told of the death of my former colleague and suddenly my thinking changed, and it wasn’t particularly down to fear. Suddenly I was thinking that, rather than trying to justify the meeting, I should instead be asking do we really need to do it? The meeting didn’t happen as a result.

I’ve often thought that to properly understand an issue, you need to understand it intellectually but also in your gut. And it’s that second element that comes from personal experience.
Click to expand...
I’m not convinced.....

“The Cold Bath” analogy very much brings to mind the kind of circumstances whereby we get a temporary rise in people calling for the death penalty, for a period after news of a horrific crime...I’m sure you’d agree that isn’t the time for introducing new legislation?
 
Wizaard said:
HMRC have been told by the select committee to learn the lessons of the pandemic and rethink the switch to regional hubs. The other Departments will follow suit. We've been buying up surface pros and mac books like you wouldn't believe. Tens of thousands.

Working from home will become the norm with massive savings on office space in city centres and all the costs that brings. Plus it helps the eco debate with millions of less miles commuting.
Click to expand...
Of course the other massive benefit for the authorities is that human contact is limited to a transactional ‘electronic’ basis.

Easy to monitor, easy to control, easy to eventually replicate with technology.

The next stage then, no doubt, will be ongoing travel restrictions (firstly implemented under the guise of transmission prevention, but then environmental reasons etc...)..

So limited travel and movement, limited human interaction, carefully controlled media....

Be very careful what you wish for...👍
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I’m not convinced.....

“The Cold Bath” analogy very much brings to mind the kind of circumstances whereby we get a temporary rise in people calling for the death penalty, for a period after news of a horrific crime...I’m sure you’d agree that isn’t the time for introducing new legislation?
Click to expand...
I do agree but that’s not really the same thing. People reading or hearing about a horrible murder haven’t been personally touched. My point was that experiencing something personally can deepen your understanding of the issue and perhaps change your perspective.

Don’t get me wrong. This was someone I knew and liked, but he wasn’t a close friend or relative. So I wasn’t in anyway devastated; sad yes, but not distraught. But his death has changed the way I think about the disease; made me a tad more cautious maybe.

Anyway, we seemed to have wandered off on a tangent slightly as we were talking about home working - the pros and cons.

I’m assuming we’ve agreed employees shouldn’t be forced into a working environment that isn’t safe (given that no working environment can ever be 100% safe).
 
Wizaard said:
HMRC have been told by the select committee to learn the lessons of the pandemic and rethink the switch to regional hubs. The other Departments will follow suit. We've been buying up surface pros and mac books like you wouldn't believe. Tens of thousands.

Working from home will become the norm with massive savings on office space in city centres and all the costs that brings. Plus it helps the eco debate with millions of less miles commuting.
Click to expand...
Very true, there's really no reason for non facing office roles to be actually in an office all day long with the technology available. The benefits massively outweigh the potential downsides.
 
A good thread with interesting points made and discussed.

A pleasant surprise because I only came on to have a go at Lytham because I thought he was moaning at folk driving to their place of exercise.
 
The office would be lovely if it wasn't for hypocritical zealots - who could be at home - clearly enjoying the socialisation but banging on about other people not sticking to rules.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I do agree but that’s not really the same thing. People reading or hearing about a horrible murder haven’t been personally touched. My point was that experiencing something personally can deepen your understanding of the issue and perhaps change your perspective.

Don’t get me wrong. This was someone I knew and liked, but he wasn’t a close friend or relative. So I wasn’t in anyway devastated; sad yes, but not distraught. But his death has changed the way I think about the disease; made me a tad more cautious maybe.

Anyway, we seemed to have wandered off on a tangent slightly as we were talking about home working - the pros and cons.

I’m assuming we’ve agreed employees shouldn’t be forced into a working environment that isn’t safe (given that no working environment can ever be 100% safe).
Click to expand...

"I'm assuming we've agreed employees shouldn't be forced into a working environment that isn't safe"


That's fair enough Mex but what exactly is safe or unsafe and who is responsible for making such a decision ?
 
rockontommy said:
The office would be lovely if it wasn't for hypocritical zealots - who could be at home - clearly enjoying the socialisation but banging on about other people not sticking to rules.
Click to expand...

I think that's a bit of a cheap shot that Tommy to be honest.

I'm sure what you say could easily be adjusted and used against those working from home.
 
I've worked from home for the last 5 yrs. There are pros and cons. I find that work becomes more intrusive and switching off so much harder. I'm sure that WFH means longer hours. That said the advent of emails to devices rendered the 9-5 system as obsolete and you were never really away from the office anyway.
For me the pros outweigh the cons I'm lucky as I go out on site most days rather than confined to looking at four walls. The effect on the road network and the environment is a huge benefit.
One problem, there is no long term thinking, it's like we think covid will be done and dusted in a few months and everyone back to the way it was. There are some big decisions to be made about the future of education.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I do agree but that’s not really the same thing. People reading or hearing about a horrible murder haven’t been personally touched. My point was that experiencing something personally can deepen your understanding of the issue and perhaps change your perspective.

Don’t get me wrong. This was someone I knew and liked, but he wasn’t a close friend or relative. So I wasn’t in anyway devastated; sad yes, but not distraught. But his death has changed the way I think about the disease; made me a tad more cautious maybe.

Anyway, we seemed to have wandered off on a tangent slightly as we were talking about home working - the pros and cons.

I’m assuming we’ve agreed employees shouldn’t be forced into a working environment that isn’t safe (given that no working environment can ever be 100% safe).
Click to expand...
I agree it can change your perspective... My point is, that I’m not sure how useful that change in perspective actually is.

If it’s an emotionally triggered response and disproportionate to the risk that exists, then I’m not convinced that is particularly useful.

If, instead it prompts an otherwise complacent individual, to be more aware of the objective risk, then arguably that might be beneficial.

Of course going back to the original point, the fact that you know someone who has died, doesn’t really add much ‘objectively’ to the point under discussion. Instead it feels more like an attempt to control the conversation by throwing in something ‘emotional’....The point stands, that the world doesn’t stop... It doesn’t stop for the 500K Brits who die every year, the 90K who have died with Covid or my mate Dave from the pub...

I absolutely agree that employees shouldn’t be forced into an unsafe working environment. I’m not entirely clear on how you might define ‘safe’ however as it’s totally unrealistic to think that you can ever entirely prevent the spread of virus.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
I think that's a bit of a cheap shot that Tommy to be honest.

I'm sure what you say could easily be adjusted and used against those working from home.
Click to expand...
Really? Cheap shot against who? Colleagues that I know but you don't (and don't post on here)?
 
rockontommy said:
Really? Cheap shot against who? Colleagues that I know but you don't (and don't post on here)?
Click to expand...


That's fair enough Tommy, you probably spoke in jest and were not being overly serious.

I was talking more generally and thinking it would be just as easy to say something like those working from home tell everybody how efficient and compliant they are when really they were just happy at the personal savings they were making.

I appreciate that you were talking more specifically and that I don't know those that you were referring to.


Apologies
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Very true, there's really no reason for non facing office roles to be actually in an office all day long with the technology available. The benefits massively outweigh the potential downsides.
Click to expand...
We've been having this same conversation at work, given that we're resigned to not being back in the office for another year. People are starting to invest in ergonomic chairs, monitors and keyboards etc, because working off a laptop at the dining room table isn't good for your physical wellbeing.

The mental aspect also needs to be considered. People are a social animal and some will find it harder than others. I've a couple of staff who live alone, so it must have been harder for them not seeing anyone day in, day out.

I do miss the accidental interaction at the tea point where you find out what other teams are doing that could impact on your own work, but conversely, I find myself doing longer hours, because I have no commute and no distractions.

This way of working is here to stay for those in service industries, as Lytham says, have no public facing role. There are massive savings to be made in the reduction of city centre estates too.

Remember when Boris was urging us back into the office to save Pret? Looks a little daft now.
 
Wizaard said:
We've been having this same conversation at work, given that we're resigned to not being back in the office for another year. People are starting to invest in ergonomic chairs, monitors and keyboards etc, because working off a laptop at the dining room table isn't good for your physical wellbeing.

The mental aspect also needs to be considered. People are a social animal and some will find it harder than others. I've a couple of staff who live alone, so it must have been harder for them not seeing anyone day in, day out.

I do miss the accidental interaction at the tea point where you find out what other teams are doing that could impact on your own work, but conversely, I find myself doing longer hours, because I have no commute and no distractions.

This way of working is here to stay for those in service industries, as Lytham says, have no public facing role. There are massive savings to be made in the reduction of city centre estates too.

Remember when Boris was urging us back into the office to save Pret? Looks a little daft now.
Click to expand...
I think the mental aspects balance themselves out, for those who may struggle from home there's the opposite, those who didn't thrive in an office setting, maybe struggled with commuting etc.. It also opens up the job market as distance may not be as big a problem anymore, right now I could do this job from anywhere in the country.

Basically, I don't want to go back to how it was before 😉
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I agree it can change your perspective... My point is, that I’m not sure how useful that change in perspective actually is.

If it’s an emotionally triggered response and disproportionate to the risk that exists, then I’m not convinced that is particularly useful.

If, instead it prompts an otherwise complacent individual, to be more aware of the objective risk, then arguably that might be beneficial.

Of course going back to the original point, the fact that you know someone who has died, doesn’t really add much ‘objectively’ to the point under discussion. Instead it feels more like an attempt to control the conversation by throwing in something ‘emotional’....The point stands, that the world doesn’t stop... It doesn’t stop for the 500K Brits who die every year, the 90K who have died with Covid or my mate Dave from the pub...

I absolutely agree that employees shouldn’t be forced into an unsafe working environment. I’m not entirely clear on how you might define ‘safe’ however as it’s totally unrealistic to think that you can ever entirely prevent the spread of virus.
Click to expand...
I think you’ve answered the question you posed in your first paragraph in your third paragraph. If a complacent manager was determined to get all his staff back in the office regardless, but then changed his mind or just reconsidered because someone he knew died, then that’d be a good thing imo. Not suggesting you are that complacent manager by the way. But there seem to be plenty around.

By raising the death of my colleague I wasn’t trying to claim some sort of moral high ground, nor was I arguing that all objective criteria should go out of the window. I was just saying it might give an individual an important insight that they didn’t have before.

On the safety issue, I have already made it clear that no working environment will ever be 100% safe. As for who decides - that question was answered by Lytham - the Health and Safety people following the government rules and guidelines.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
That's fair enough Tommy, you probably spoke in jest and were not being overly serious.

I was talking more generally and thinking it would be just as easy to say something like those working from home tell everybody how efficient and compliant they are when really they were just happy at the personal savings they were making.

I appreciate that you were talking more specifically and that I don't know those you that you were referring to.


Apologies
Click to expand...
No worries. We've got some that have stayed at home throughout as well and I respect their consistency. No truck with the first lot mentioned though.
 
Wizaard said:
We've been having this same conversation at work, given that we're resigned to not being back in the office for another year. People are starting to invest in ergonomic chairs, monitors and keyboards etc, because working off a laptop at the dining room table isn't good for your physical wellbeing.

The mental aspect also needs to be considered. People are a social animal and some will find it harder than others. I've a couple of staff who live alone, so it must have been harder for them not seeing anyone day in, day out.

I do miss the accidental interaction at the tea point where you find out what other teams are doing that could impact on your own work, but conversely, I find myself doing longer hours, because I have no commute and no distractions.

This way of working is here to stay for those in service industries, as Lytham says, have no public facing role. There are massive savings to be made in the reduction of city centre estates too.

Remember when Boris was urging us back into the office to save Pret? Looks a little daft now.
Click to expand...
What does look daft is the general lack of foresight to see where this is going.

An ever declining and less personal standard of services for us all. The slow and steady erosion of those services and interactions so that customers are simply accustomed to dealing with faceless organisations and systems.

Then, as with manufacturing, the virtual eradication of the workforce through AI / automation, further concentration of wealth in the few....Increased state reliance ergo increased state control...

It’s quite possible we might be witness the biggest and possibly quickest shift in our economic ans social systems ever....

For the ones that are working from home longer term... prepare yourselves for new intrusive technologies in your homes to make sure you are where you are supposed to be doing what you are supposed to be doing.👍
 
Home working is dreadful for productivity, a person is more focused and more disciplined out of the home environment. Speak to anyone that has previously been employed and started self employment. It’s nothing new. This pandemic won’t change anything long term. For a small minority it works for both employer and employee, this is why flexible working was introduced and has never really caught on. Just another buzz word for the unions to beat employers with
 
northstand said:
Home working is dreadful for productivity, a person is more focused and more disciplined out of the home environment. Speak to anyone that has previously been employed and started self employment. It’s nothing new. This pandemic won’t change anything long term. For a small minority it works for both employer and employee, this is why flexible working was introduced and has never really caught on. Just another buzz word for the unions to beat employers with
Click to expand...
There’s also huge issues with boundaries....No demarcation between work/ home, leading to increased stress over the long term.

It sounds stupid, but I used to change clothes whilst working just to ritually acknowledge I’d finished for the day..... still too easy to get sucked back in mind you.
 
northstand said:
Home working is dreadful for productivity, a person is more focused and more disciplined out of the home environment. Speak to anyone that has previously been employed and started self employment. It’s nothing new. This pandemic won’t change anything long term. For a small minority it works for both employer and employee, this is why flexible working was introduced and has never really caught on. Just another buzz word for the unions to beat employers with
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you say and you put it across better than I do but I do think that the pandemic will change things.

I think the shift towards working from home that Wiz suggests will happen and I also think that this will inevitably result in job losses as well as all of the issues already suggested by BFC x 3.
 
Wizaard said:
HMRC have been told by the select committee to learn the lessons of the pandemic and rethink the switch to regional hubs. The other Departments will follow suit. We've been buying up surface pros and mac books like you wouldn't believe. Tens of thousands.

Working from home will become the norm with massive savings on office space in city centres and all the costs that brings. Plus it helps the eco debate with millions of less miles commuting.
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I've worked from home since this first began, I love it.
My issue with the highlighted part of your post above is are this govt likely to want it to happen long term, given how many of their supporters/backers will have investments in the property market? Some of them are likely to have money tied up in city centre office buildings, is it beneficial for them to be empty?
 
Suddenly were at the same epoch of when personal computers entered the workspace.

Companies who used to rely on teams of 'sales reps' knocking on doors to get orders suddenly changed to have teams of 'tele-sales'.......and those that had tele-sales' moved on to digital and email to develop business......or a mixture of all 3......all creating more new jobs.

Systems like Slack and Teams have now come into their own and allowed businesses to increase their staff rather than downsize.....and it's allowed them the freedom to allow their staff to work from home....or even the local Starbucks........It's the future...adapt or die.

As for companies allowing staff to work while ignoring C19.....I had a great chat with a lady working at Peel Park (Civil Service) who said there were staff that were 100% infected but were still working behind their socially distanced desks, blocked off by screens.......but still coughing all over their workmates......
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
What does look daft is the general lack of foresight to see where this is going.

An ever declining and less personal standard of services for us all. The slow and steady erosion of those services and interactions so that customers are simply accustomed to dealing with faceless organisations and systems.

Then, as with manufacturing, the virtual eradication of the workforce through AI / automation, further concentration of wealth in the few....Increased state reliance ergo increased state control...

It’s quite possible we might be witness the biggest and possibly quickest shift in our economic ans social systems ever....

For the ones that are working from home longer term... prepare yourselves for new intrusive technologies in your homes to make sure you are where you are supposed to be doing what you are supposed to be doing.👍
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It's the NHS fella, no one is intruding, other shit to worry about.
 
northstand said:
Home working is dreadful for productivity, a person is more focused and more disciplined out of the home environment. Speak to anyone that has previously been employed and started self employment. It’s nothing new. This pandemic won’t change anything long term. For a small minority it works for both employer and employee, this is why flexible working was introduced and has never really caught on. Just another buzz word for the unions to beat employers with
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There are literally millions of people working flexible hours. Never caught on? I've been working flexible hours for 40 years.
 
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