Effects of Brexit on Businesses, Economy

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poolseasider said:
In the Guardian no thanks no different than the Daily Mail- Two ends of the same shitty stick.
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The difference now in the year 2022 is that these articles are based on evidential fact rather than just future projections so can no longer be fobbed off anymore as Project Fear scare mongering.

We are throttling the life out of our economy. It was obvious to many that this would happen. Others will have to keep feeling the effects of the downturn before the penny drops.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
The difference now in the year 2022 is that these articles are based on evidential fact rather than just future projections so can no longer be fobbed off anymore as Project Fear scare mongering.

We are throttling the life out of our economy. It was obvious to many that this would happen. Others will have to keep feeling the effects of the downturn before the penny drops.
Click to expand...
In the opinion of you and the Guardian.
One which as stated above is just the opposite end of a shitty stick to the Daily Mail.
The other one supported the Oyston family.
Both carry very little credence.
 
Because the useless Government has spent 99.9% of its attention on the pandemic and Partygate.
They’ve done next to nothing to cut Brexit red tape and/or amend the cut & paste legislation.
The lack of imagination to forge our own path outside the EU is breathtaking.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
In the opinion of you and the Guardian.
One which as stated above is just the opposite end of a shitty stick to the Daily Mail.
The other one supported the Oyston family.
Both carry very little credence.
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economy2030.resolutionfoundation.org

The Big Brexit - The Inquiry

An assessment of the scale of change to come from Brexit
economy2030.resolutionfoundation.org economy2030.resolutionfoundation.org

Independent Economic thinktank the resolution foundation concludes that Brexit is costing each household £870 per year.
 
I can understand brexiteers who voted because they didn't want more political integration (a view I don't share) but economically it's been a disaster that this govt has been able to hide behind Covid.
 
It's a fkn mess . I know it's done and we have to get on with it .
It was mixture of faux patriotism and xenophobia that got it over the line .Economically it was a piss poor idea but we'll survive
Will be difficult to analyse clearly due to the impact of the pandemic and Putins lunatic adventures
On a personal level I really liked the freedom of movement rules and the opportunity to live in many different countries unencumbered by red tape
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
Yep. The Guardian. That fine example of political independence
Click to expand...
I notice that you haven't responded to the findings of the Resolution Foundation. I don't think that you can dismiss those so easily because they are independent economists.

economy2030.resolutionfoundation.org

The Big Brexit - The Inquiry

An assessment of the scale of change to come from Brexit
economy2030.resolutionfoundation.org economy2030.resolutionfoundation.org

Are you seriously saying that Brexit has had no effect on our economy?
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I notice that you haven't responded to the findings of the Resolution Foundation. I don't think that you can dismiss those so easily because they are independent economists.

economy2030.resolutionfoundation.org

The Big Brexit - The Inquiry

An assessment of the scale of change to come from Brexit
economy2030.resolutionfoundation.org economy2030.resolutionfoundation.org

Are you seriously saying that Brexit has had no effect on our economy?
Click to expand...
I haven't taken any notice of what newspapers or the media in general say for years. If you do that's your choice.
If you're sad and obsessed enough to want to check back through my posts on here then you'll see I fully expected some short term pain.
Otherwise just accept that people will have a different opinion to you, however hard you may find that.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
I haven't taken any notice of what newspapers or the media in general say for years. If you do that's your choice.
If you're sad and obsessed enough to want to check back through my posts on here then you'll see I fully expected some short term pain.
Otherwise just accept that people will have a different opinion to you, however hard you may find that.
Click to expand...
So you actually agree with the Guardian that is reporting on the 'short term' pain?
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
So you actually agree with the Guardian that is reporting on the 'short term' pain?
Click to expand...
I haven't read the article but yes if that's what they're saying I've said all along that I expected some short term pain.
And do you actually agree with me that people will have a different opinion to you?
I know that can be a hard concept to grasp for those of you of a particular politic leaning.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
I haven't read the article but yes if that's what they're saying I've said all along that I expected some short term pain.
And do you actually agree with me that people will have a different opinion to you?
I know that can be a hard concept to grasp for those of you of a particular politic leaning.
Click to expand...
Of course people can have a different opinion.
But it's better if opinions are based on factual information.
Brexit is having a damaging effect on our economy as many predicted and the article (which you initially dismissed) illustrates.
At the time these predictions were dismissed as 'Project Fear'. Project Fear is now Project Reality.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Of course people can have a different opinion.
But it's better if opinions are based on factual information.
Brexit is having a damaging effect on our economy as many predicted and the article (which you initially dismissed) illustrates.
At the time these predictions were dismissed as 'Project Fear'. Project Fear is now Project Reality.
Click to expand...
In your opinion. You can read other articles which will say differently. As somebody previously pointed out, the Guardian and the Mail are just opposite ends of the same shitty stick.
I'm glad you accept that people are allowed to have a different opinion. Some on here who are of 'the kinder face of politics', find that very difficult to accept.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
In your opinion. You can read other articles which will say differently. As somebody previously pointed out, the Guardian and the Mail are just opposite ends of the same shitty stick.
I'm glad you accept that people are allowed to have a different opinion. Some on here who are of 'the kinder face of politics', find that very difficult to accept.
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Can you point me in the direction of a think tank report compiled by Economists that shows that Brexit is having a beneficial effect on the economy?
Or any report in a newspaper even?
Can you tell some of the beneficial effects of Brexit on the UK economy?
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
I haven't taken any notice of what newspapers or the media in general say for years. If you do that's your choice.
If you're sad and obsessed enough to want to check back through my posts on here then you'll see I fully expected some short term pain.
Otherwise just accept that people will have a different opinion to you, however hard you may find that.
Click to expand...
There's nothing like broadening one's sources of information in order to be well informed. I take the Guardian as my principal source, followed by the BBC, ITN and Channel 4 news. Then there are occasional articles in the tabloids, The Times and the FT - even the Torygraph, and the Spectator, the New Statesman and other on-line sources, including some Trade Union sites and (err) AVFTT.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Can you point me in the direction of a think tank report compiled by Economists that shows that Brexit is having a beneficial effect on the economy?
Or any report in a newspaper even?
Can you tell some of the beneficial effects of Brexit on the UK economy?
Click to expand...
I've already said that I expected some short term pain economically. How many times do I have to repeat that?
I believe that the short term pain will be worth the long term benefits. I still strongly believe that long term we'll be better off out of the EU.
Nothing I have seen so far has convinced me any different. And if there were another referendum tomorrow I'd vote the same way with just as much conviction.
I gave it a lot of thought on which way to vote. I certainly wasn't one who had made up their mind as soon as the referendum was announced.
As for your claims about Project Fear becoming Project Reality, well I find that laughable.
Some of the huge exaggerations made by the Remain side were unbelievable. Who can forget Osborne's emergency budget for example, which never materialised. I might add there were also some wild claims made on the Leave side. Both sides were equally guilty.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
There's nothing like broadening one's sources of information in order to be well informed. I take the Guardian as my principal source, followed by the BBC, ITN and Channel 4 news. Then there are occasional articles in the tabloids, The Times and the FT - even the Torygraph, and the Spectator, the New Statesman and other on-line sources, including some Trade Union sites and (err) AVFTT.
Click to expand...
That's fair comment. But my thoughts are that if you read and believe a lot of the media in this country, you can actually become less well informed.
Such is the depth of lies and exaggerations peddled by so many sources.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
I've already said that I expected some short term pain economically. How many times do I have to repeat that?
I believe that the short term pain will be worth the long term benefits. I still strongly believe that long term we'll be better off out of the EU.
Nothing I have seen so far has convinced me any different. And if there were another referendum tomorrow I'd vote the same way with just as much conviction.
I gave it a lot of thought on which way to vote. I certainly wasn't one who had made up their mind as soon as the referendum was announced.
As for your claims about Project Fear becoming Project Reality, well I find that laughable.
Some of the huge exaggerations made by the Remain side were unbelievable. Who can forget Osborne's emergency budget for example, which never materialised. I might add there were also some wild claims made on the Leave side. Both sides were equally guilty.
Click to expand...
5% of GDP, that is the reality
It amounts to a lot
 
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I read the summary of the report last night. It is quite negative about the economic effects of Brexit but a few things stand out.

  • The £870 cost per person is not an ongoing thing. That was calculated in the immediate aftermath of the 2016 referendum and that particular pain is now passed. The report does make that clear.
  • The report seems to assume that Brexit in itself would be responsible for 'levelling up' but I don't remember anyone saying that was a direct consequence. As I understand it, Brexit allows greater freedoms so levelling-up agendas can be pursued more vigorously. If those policies are not pursued then there will be no levelling up Brexit or not.
  • There's a big emphasis on 'openness' and how Brexit has had a negative effect on UK openness but it never explains the criteria for openness. Maybe this is something all professional economists know but it's not obvious to the casual reader which means it's difficult to asses how big a problem this is.
I'll have a look later at the full report. There are no obvious 'crazy Remainer' tendencies from the authors so it's worth a read.

This from Liam Halligan in the DT.

"Since 2016, the pound has stayed roughly in line with the euro and the much-hyped mass exodus from the City didn’t materialise. Our world class financial services industry has actually grown even more, with London consolidating its position as a global “super-hub”.
Yes, UK trade has been affected, as was always likely during the early post-Brexit uncertainties. Yet, the combination of delay (Parliament spent three years rowing over whether to implement Brexit) and global lockdown, means assessing the scale of that impact is tough.

It's clear, though, that the threatened collapse of UK trade hasn’t happened. Weeks before the 2016 referendum, ardent Remainer and then Tory MP Anna Soubry warned UK trade with the EU would fall “almost absolutely to zero” if we voted to leave.
But official data last week showed, in the words of the Office for National Statistics, that UK exports of goods to the EU “increased for the third consecutive month in April 2022 and are at the highest levels since records began”.

As I said, the combination of implementation delays and the pandemic means, even six years on, it’s far too early to judge the impact of Brexit on the UK economy. The dislocation of war in Ukraine – which hits an energy importer like the UK far harder than energy exporters like the US – further complicates that assessment.
None of that stops the usual suspects from considering it axiomatic that the UK economy will always perform far worse outside the EU than had we remained a “member of the club”.

While the evidence so far is mixed, I’d say there are signs, for all the turmoil of recent years and today’s cost of living crisis, that post-Brexit Britain is actually out-performing the EU27.
And the economic benefits of being outside the EU – aside from the overwhelming democratic upsides – would become clearer still if ministers more energetically embraced the post-Brexit agenda, implementing more deregulatory and other growth-enhancing supply-side measures made possible now we’ve left.

Six years on, I maintain there were reasons to stay in the EU and reasons to leave, with compelling arguments either way. While I voted for Brexit, countless people I deeply respect and admire voted the other way.
Yet, while the overwhelming majority of Remain voters have accepted the outcome, and want Britain to thrive anyway, a small but highly influential group of unreconciled remain-voters are determined to see us re-join. And until they get their way, they’ll keep talking down Britain, ignoring blindingly obvious statistics while insisting Brexit is reversed.

Another reality the UK’s re-join movement must face is that, at the core of the EU, the eurozone remains an ill-designed and extremely fragile, half-finished currency union. And, over recent weeks, there have been growing fears we could see a re-run of the 2011-12 eurozone crisis, which threatened the collapse of the entire single currency construct.

Almost exactly a decade ago, Mario Draghi, then ECB President pledged to do “whatever it takes” to save the euro from destruction. At the time, Greece was on the verge of stumbling out of the eurozone. Italy, the region’s third-largest economy, was so indebted that it too seemed destined to leave, perhaps sparking the implosion of monetary union – and spreading financial turmoil across the globe.
Today, Mario Draghi is Prime Minister of Italy – now even more in the red, with government debt exceeding 150pc of GDP. And there are warning signs on global bond markets that as inflation rises, and the ECB starts raising interest rates, we could face a renewed euro-zone crisis</a> and related market turbulence.

Eurozone inflation is now 8.1pc and, as in the UK, heading for double-digits. All major economies are raising rates to push down on price pressures. The eurozone is so weak, though, the ECB’s rate remains minus 0.5pc – and is set to increase just 25 basis points in July, before possibly reaching 0pc in September.
The ECB is meanwhile propping up various over-indebted member states – including Italy, one of the world’s largest economies – who can’t depreciate their currencies to escape the economic doldrums. For years, in fact, the ECB has been using quantitative easing to hose down eurozone sovereign bond markets with newly-created money, buying up the debts of eurozone strugglers.
Now sitting on government bonds worth around €5 trillion (£4.3 trillion), the ECB is still making net purchases of over €30 billion a month.

As inflation rises, the spread between yields on German and Italian bonds, the two ends of the eurozone credit risk spectrum, is getting broader. It now stands at around 240 basis points, having more than doubled since the start of the year.
The Germans, Austrians and Dutch, deeply concerned about inflation and sick of bailing-out eurozone laggards, are determined to curtail ECB largesse. The “Club Med” bloc, led by France, wants the money-printing to continue, which is why Lagarde is issuing public warnings that eurozone financial markets are about to collapse.

The stage is indeed set for a re-run of the 2011/12 eurozone crisis. I wonder what the Rejoiners will make of that."
 
Kip said:
I read the summary of the report last night. It is quite negative about the economic effects of Brexit but a few things stand out.

  • The £870 cost per person is not an ongoing thing. That was calculated in the immediate aftermath of the 2016 referendum and that particular pain is now passed. The report does make that clear.
  • The report seems to assume that Brexit in itself would be responsible for 'levelling up' but I don't remember anyone saying that was a direct consequence. As I understand it, Brexit allows greater freedoms so levelling-up agendas can be pursued more vigorously. If those policies are not pursued then there will be no levelling up Brexit or not.
  • There's a big emphasis on 'openness' and how Brexit has had a negative effect on UK openness but it never explains the criteria for openness. Maybe this is something all professional economists know but it's not obvious to the casual reader which means it's difficult to asses how big a problem this is.
I'll have a look later at the full report. There are no obvious 'crazy Remainer' tendencies from the authors so it's worth a read.

This from Liam Halligan in the DT.

"Since 2016, the pound has stayed roughly in line with the euro and the much-hyped mass exodus from the City didn’t materialise. Our world class financial services industry has actually grown even more, with London consolidating its position as a global “super-hub”.
Yes, UK trade has been affected, as was always likely during the early post-Brexit uncertainties. Yet, the combination of delay (Parliament spent three years rowing over whether to implement Brexit) and global lockdown, means assessing the scale of that impact is tough.

It's clear, though, that the threatened collapse of UK trade hasn’t happened. Weeks before the 2016 referendum, ardent Remainer and then Tory MP Anna Soubry warned UK trade with the EU would fall “almost absolutely to zero” if we voted to leave.
But official data last week showed, in the words of the Office for National Statistics, that UK exports of goods to the EU “increased for the third consecutive month in April 2022 and are at the highest levels since records began”.

As I said, the combination of implementation delays and the pandemic means, even six years on, it’s far too early to judge the impact of Brexit on the UK economy. The dislocation of war in Ukraine – which hits an energy importer like the UK far harder than energy exporters like the US – further complicates that assessment.
None of that stops the usual suspects from considering it axiomatic that the UK economy will always perform far worse outside the EU than had we remained a “member of the club”.

While the evidence so far is mixed, I’d say there are signs, for all the turmoil of recent years and today’s cost of living crisis, that post-Brexit Britain is actually out-performing the EU27.
And the economic benefits of being outside the EU – aside from the overwhelming democratic upsides – would become clearer still if ministers more energetically embraced the post-Brexit agenda, implementing more deregulatory and other growth-enhancing supply-side measures made possible now we’ve left.

Six years on, I maintain there were reasons to stay in the EU and reasons to leave, with compelling arguments either way. While I voted for Brexit, countless people I deeply respect and admire voted the other way.
Yet, while the overwhelming majority of Remain voters have accepted the outcome, and want Britain to thrive anyway, a small but highly influential group of unreconciled remain-voters are determined to see us re-join. And until they get their way, they’ll keep talking down Britain, ignoring blindingly obvious statistics while insisting Brexit is reversed.

Another reality the UK’s re-join movement must face is that, at the core of the EU, the eurozone remains an ill-designed and extremely fragile, half-finished currency union. And, over recent weeks, there have been growing fears we could see a re-run of the 2011-12 eurozone crisis, which threatened the collapse of the entire single currency construct.

Almost exactly a decade ago, Mario Draghi, then ECB President pledged to do “whatever it takes” to save the euro from destruction. At the time, Greece was on the verge of stumbling out of the eurozone. Italy, the region’s third-largest economy, was so indebted that it too seemed destined to leave, perhaps sparking the implosion of monetary union – and spreading financial turmoil across the globe.
Today, Mario Draghi is Prime Minister of Italy – now even more in the red, with government debt exceeding 150pc of GDP. And there are warning signs on global bond markets that as inflation rises, and the ECB starts raising interest rates, we could face a renewed euro-zone crisis</a> and related market turbulence.

Eurozone inflation is now 8.1pc and, as in the UK, heading for double-digits. All major economies are raising rates to push down on price pressures. The eurozone is so weak, though, the ECB’s rate remains minus 0.5pc – and is set to increase just 25 basis points in July, before possibly reaching 0pc in September.
The ECB is meanwhile propping up various over-indebted member states – including Italy, one of the world’s largest economies – who can’t depreciate their currencies to escape the economic doldrums. For years, in fact, the ECB has been using quantitative easing to hose down eurozone sovereign bond markets with newly-created money, buying up the debts of eurozone strugglers.
Now sitting on government bonds worth around €5 trillion (£4.3 trillion), the ECB is still making net purchases of over €30 billion a month.

As inflation rises, the spread between yields on German and Italian bonds, the two ends of the eurozone credit risk spectrum, is getting broader. It now stands at around 240 basis points, having more than doubled since the start of the year.
The Germans, Austrians and Dutch, deeply concerned about inflation and sick of bailing-out eurozone laggards, are determined to curtail ECB largesse. The “Club Med” bloc, led by France, wants the money-printing to continue, which is why Lagarde is issuing public warnings that eurozone financial markets are about to collapse.

The stage is indeed set for a re-run of the 2011/12 eurozone crisis. I wonder what the Rejoiners will make of that."
Click to expand...
Now you know you are not allowed to post stuff like that on here. 😁 👍
 
Kip said:
I read the summary of the report last night. It is quite negative about the economic effects of Brexit but a few things stand out.

  • The £870 cost per person is not an ongoing thing. That was calculated in the immediate aftermath of the 2016 referendum and that particular pain is now passed. The report does make that clear.
  • The report seems to assume that Brexit in itself would be responsible for 'levelling up' but I don't remember anyone saying that was a direct consequence. As I understand it, Brexit allows greater freedoms so levelling-up agendas can be pursued more vigorously. If those policies are not pursued then there will be no levelling up Brexit or not.
  • There's a big emphasis on 'openness' and how Brexit has had a negative effect on UK openness but it never explains the criteria for openness. Maybe this is something all professional economists know but it's not obvious to the casual reader which means it's difficult to asses how big a problem this is.
I'll have a look later at the full report. There are no obvious 'crazy Remainer' tendencies from the authors so it's worth a read.

This from Liam Halligan in the DT.

"Since 2016, the pound has stayed roughly in line with the euro and the much-hyped mass exodus from the City didn’t materialise. Our world class financial services industry has actually grown even more, with London consolidating its position as a global “super-hub”.
Yes, UK trade has been affected, as was always likely during the early post-Brexit uncertainties. Yet, the combination of delay (Parliament spent three years rowing over whether to implement Brexit) and global lockdown, means assessing the scale of that impact is tough.

It's clear, though, that the threatened collapse of UK trade hasn’t happened. Weeks before the 2016 referendum, ardent Remainer and then Tory MP Anna Soubry warned UK trade with the EU would fall “almost absolutely to zero” if we voted to leave.
But official data last week showed, in the words of the Office for National Statistics, that UK exports of goods to the EU “increased for the third consecutive month in April 2022 and are at the highest levels since records began”.

As I said, the combination of implementation delays and the pandemic means, even six years on, it’s far too early to judge the impact of Brexit on the UK economy. The dislocation of war in Ukraine – which hits an energy importer like the UK far harder than energy exporters like the US – further complicates that assessment.
None of that stops the usual suspects from considering it axiomatic that the UK economy will always perform far worse outside the EU than had we remained a “member of the club”.

While the evidence so far is mixed, I’d say there are signs, for all the turmoil of recent years and today’s cost of living crisis, that post-Brexit Britain is actually out-performing the EU27.
And the economic benefits of being outside the EU – aside from the overwhelming democratic upsides – would become clearer still if ministers more energetically embraced the post-Brexit agenda, implementing more deregulatory and other growth-enhancing supply-side measures made possible now we’ve left.

Six years on, I maintain there were reasons to stay in the EU and reasons to leave, with compelling arguments either way. While I voted for Brexit, countless people I deeply respect and admire voted the other way.
Yet, while the overwhelming majority of Remain voters have accepted the outcome, and want Britain to thrive anyway, a small but highly influential group of unreconciled remain-voters are determined to see us re-join. And until they get their way, they’ll keep talking down Britain, ignoring blindingly obvious statistics while insisting Brexit is reversed.

Another reality the UK’s re-join movement must face is that, at the core of the EU, the eurozone remains an ill-designed and extremely fragile, half-finished currency union. And, over recent weeks, there have been growing fears we could see a re-run of the 2011-12 eurozone crisis, which threatened the collapse of the entire single currency construct.

Almost exactly a decade ago, Mario Draghi, then ECB President pledged to do “whatever it takes” to save the euro from destruction. At the time, Greece was on the verge of stumbling out of the eurozone. Italy, the region’s third-largest economy, was so indebted that it too seemed destined to leave, perhaps sparking the implosion of monetary union – and spreading financial turmoil across the globe.
Today, Mario Draghi is Prime Minister of Italy – now even more in the red, with government debt exceeding 150pc of GDP. And there are warning signs on global bond markets that as inflation rises, and the ECB starts raising interest rates, we could face a renewed euro-zone crisis</a> and related market turbulence.

Eurozone inflation is now 8.1pc and, as in the UK, heading for double-digits. All major economies are raising rates to push down on price pressures. The eurozone is so weak, though, the ECB’s rate remains minus 0.5pc – and is set to increase just 25 basis points in July, before possibly reaching 0pc in September.
The ECB is meanwhile propping up various over-indebted member states – including Italy, one of the world’s largest economies – who can’t depreciate their currencies to escape the economic doldrums. For years, in fact, the ECB has been using quantitative easing to hose down eurozone sovereign bond markets with newly-created money, buying up the debts of eurozone strugglers.
Now sitting on government bonds worth around €5 trillion (£4.3 trillion), the ECB is still making net purchases of over €30 billion a month.

As inflation rises, the spread between yields on German and Italian bonds, the two ends of the eurozone credit risk spectrum, is getting broader. It now stands at around 240 basis points, having more than doubled since the start of the year.
The Germans, Austrians and Dutch, deeply concerned about inflation and sick of bailing-out eurozone laggards, are determined to curtail ECB largesse. The “Club Med” bloc, led by France, wants the money-printing to continue, which is why Lagarde is issuing public warnings that eurozone financial markets are about to collapse.

The stage is indeed set for a re-run of the 2011/12 eurozone crisis. I wonder what the Rejoiners will make of that."
Click to expand...
The first part of your post - your critique of elements of the Resolution Foundation report - is considered. You rightly criticise the reports failure to fully explain the criteria under which it makes judgment of Brexit's failures. Unfortunately, Liam Halligan makes the same mistake throughout his piece.

the threatened collapse of UK trade hasn’t happened...yet. There's a worldwide recession brewing and the Brexit impact on British trade has not come to an end, not by a long chalk. Halligan recognises that in his following comments but then contextualised it in terms of arch-remainers considering Brexit to be axiomatically doomed to failure. Well he would wouldn't he and that sort of knockabout yah-boo stuff takes his argument nowhere.

He then moves the focus of his critique of the Remain argument to the assertion that, "at the core of the EU, the eurozone remains an ill-designed and extremely fragile, half-finished currency union." But the UK was not in the Eurozone. Neither are other Eastern European member States. Yes the Eurozone remains fragile but it isn't fundamental to the survival or continuation of the Union. Indeed, for this poster there is good reason to allow the weaker member states greater flexibility around their adoption of the currency.

These journalistic failings will continue to compromise reasoned debate so long as they are written by people with a side to take. The best thing to do is to take the more reasoned and factual elements and come to one's own conclusions.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
The first part of your post - your critique of elements of the Resolution Foundation report - is considered. You rightly criticise the reports failure to fully explain the criteria under which it makes judgment of Brexit's failures. Unfortunately, Liam Halligan makes the same mistake throughout his piece.

the threatened collapse of UK trade hasn’t happened...yet. There's a worldwide recession brewing and the Brexit impact on British trade has not come to an end, not by a long chalk. Halligan recognises that in his following comments but then talks about it in terms of arch-remai ers considering Brexit to axiomaticalky be doomed to failure. Well he would wouldn't he and that sort of knockabout yah-boo stuff takes his argument nowhere.

He then moves the focus of his critique of the Remain argument to the assertion that, "at the core of the EU, the eurozone remains an ill-designed and extremely fragile, half-finished currency union." But the UK was not in the Eurozone. Neither are other Eastern European member States. Yes the Eurozone remains fragile but it isn't fundanental to the survival or continuation of the Union.

These journalistic failings will continue to compromise reasoned debate so long as they are written by people with a side to take. The best thing to do is to take the more reasoned and factual elements and come to one's own conclusions.
Click to expand...
There's no reasoning with someone who uses this language (axiomaticalky) 😁
 
Scaramanga said:
There's no reasoning with someone who uses this language (axiomaticalky) 😁
Click to expand...
On my phone I write my posts first, post them, review them and then adjust for errors or language style. Mind you, it's encouraging that you are so desperate to read my latest diatribe that you launch into the first draft.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
On my phone I write my posts first, post them, review them and then adjust for errors or language style. Mind you, it's encouraging that you are so desperate to read my latest diatribe that you launch into the first draft.
Click to expand...
If I had posted it half a dozen would of already pulled the Grammar police card. So why not 😉
 
Most British politicians, particularly the senior ones, are second rate and self serving, Brexit was bound to be a disaster!
And as a result of Brexit it's now harder for those of us who wanted to escape the shit show to leave them and their voters to it!!
But as long as people like Scara and Trammo were able to exercise their brand of insular, narrow minded, backward looking patriotism we don't need to worry about reduced opportunities in life and a shrinking economy.
 
gjr69 said:
Most British politicians, particularly the senior ones, are second rate and self serving, Brexit was bound to be a disaster!
And as a result of Brexit it's now harder for those of us who wanted to escape the shit show to leave them and their voters to it!!
But as long as people like Scara and Trammo were able to exercise their brand of insular, narrow minded, backward looking patriotism we don't need to worry about reduced opportunities in life and a shrinking economy.
Click to expand...
There are some good people in Parliament. It's the Tory public school, Oxbridge, entitled scumbags and their nationalist acolytes (yes you Mr Benton), who give the rest a bad name.

I watched the Daily Politics today and even Andrea Ledsom came across OK.
 
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gjr69 said:
Most British politicians, particularly the senior ones, are second rate and self serving, Brexit was bound to be a disaster!
And as a result of Brexit it's now harder for those of us who wanted to escape the shit show to leave them and their voters to it!!
But as long as people like Scara and Trammo were able to exercise their brand of insular, narrow minded, backward looking patriotism we don't need to worry about reduced opportunities in life and a shrinking economy.
Click to expand...
Another one I’ve got in the keep net 😂😂
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
More insults from the 'kinder face of politics' Scara. And here was me thinking the Tories were the nasty party 😂
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Apparently I’m insular, backward looking and narrow minded, however Im not allowed to say the things I really want as I continually get shut down. Nowt like a good open debate on a politics forum 😂😂
 
1966_and_all_that said:
There are some good people in Parliament. It's the Tory public school, Oxbridge, entitled scumbags and their nationalist acolytes (yes you Mr Benton), who gives the rest a bad name.

I watched the Daily Politics today and even Andrea Ledsom came across OK.
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I think it tends to be the ones at the top that are the worst, I am sure there are many decent back benchers.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
More insults from the 'kinder face of politics' Scara. And here was me thinking the Tories were the nasty party 😂
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Don't know where the insult was it was my opinion of certain people's idea of patriotism and my face isn't the kinder face of anything!
 
Thank you to o/p for posting the article
I have to say I thought there would be more in depth analysis in it? Also my northern prejudice kicked in pretty early when the two companies cited as examples of failure were a company in Marlow (lovely place and dripping in money) who named his stationary business “Stewart Superior” and another company on the south coast selling fine art prints.

I am sure there were some good points in the article but I was already irritated….
 
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