England v Iceland

There used to be a time where I’d look for when the games were and look forward to watching England.

I didn’t even realise they were playing tonight and they same can be said for the last two games and only stumbled upon them as I was flicking through the tv.

The 15 minutes or so that I watched just confirmed why I’ve lost all interest in the national team. Truly dreadful to watch.

I don’t think I’m the only one like this, so, where did it all go wrong?
 
Would like to have a look at some of the fringe players such as Foden, Dean Henderson and Abraham. I would therefore be happy with a draw. I would also like to see how Keane fairs at centre half. He did not look international class a little while back, but maybe Ancelotti may have been able to help him develop.
 
Ruperthoop said:
Would like to have a look at some of the fringe players such as Foden, Dean Henderson and Abraham. I would therefore be happy with a draw. I would also like to see how Keane fairs at centre half. He did not look international class a little while back, but maybe Ancelotti may have been able to help him develop.
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Happy with a draw, against Iceland, at Wembley...

They haven't got a point in this Nations League group
 
Rektseasider said:
There used to be a time where I’d look for when the games were and look forward to watching England.

I didn’t even realise they were playing tonight and they same can be said for the last two games and only stumbled upon them as I was flicking through the tv.

The 15 minutes or so that I watched just confirmed why I’ve lost all interest in the national team. Truly dreadful to watch.

I don’t think I’m the only one like this, so, where did it all go wrong?
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It's only two years since we reached a World Cup semi final and only a few weeks since we beat the best team in the world at home!
With a full squad to choose from we can anyone a decent game. ' Where did it all go wrong'.....jeez.
 
StanleySeasider- You are right, we should never be looking for anything less than a win against Iceland. 2-0 England win with a good look at some fringe players.
 
I'm a football fan, I'm English, England are playing so why wouldn't I want to watch it if I can..
I get the impression that football is only a casual pastime for some. Their choice of course but why try be so arsey about it when there's a game.. Suppose some will get more enjoyment of playing FIFA 21 on the playstation, xbox or whatever.
 
FessParker said:
It's only two years since we reached a World Cup semi final and only a few weeks since we beat the best team in the world at home!
With a full squad to choose from we can anyone a decent game. ' Where did it all go wrong'.....jeez.
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FessParker said:
It's only two years since we reached a World Cup semi final and only a few weeks since we beat the best team in the world at home!
With a full squad to choose from we can anyone a decent game. ' Where did it all go wrong'.....jeez.
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If you read my post I’m not commenting so much on the quality of the squad, as it’s really no better or worse than anything since probably 1996.

However the apathy around the England team now is palpable, I agree I did enjoy the World Cup a few years ago. But really that was a lone bright moment for the imagine of the national team over the last decade or more.

I’d argue what ever the reasons are, the percentage of the public interested in the national team is now, likely at an all time low.
 
Rektseasider said:
If you read my post I’m not commenting so much on the quality of the squad, as it’s really no better or worse than anything since probably 1996.

However the apathy around the England team now is palpable, I agree I did enjoy the World Cup a few years ago. But really that was a lone bright moment for the imagine of the national team over the last decade or more.

I’d argue what ever the reasons are, the percentage of the public interested in the national team is now, likely at an all time low.
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with regards to your last line Rekt, I think there's certainly been times in the last ten years when the so called interest has been less. Certainly when we lost to Iceland in the World Cup and a period after that.
However, I do ask the question with regards to double standards and hypocrisy. Do people only want to support England if they are successful or doing well? Isn't that what we accuse all these people who follow teams like Liverpool and United in the first place. Of jumping on the bandwagon of being a glory hunter. People who often have no association to the city where those teams play. Yet here we all are, the majority of us English, supposed football fans yet with a ridiculing attitude to our national team. I care about my national team as much as I do about BFC. i support them thru the good times and the bad. I'm desperate for both to do well. I don't give up on them just because the goings tough and they aren't doing well. And let's not forget England are currently ranked 4th in the world.

This ain't aimed at you Rekt, it's just a general comment on how I see it and how I see a lot of people..
 
I do not agree with the opinion that interest in the national team is likely to be at an all time low. I believe the public percieve that we now have a team and players capable of now retaining the ball for long periods whoever the opposition may be and have exciting players such as Kane, Stirling and Rashford whom are capable of hurting any team in the world, and people are excited about this. I think the problem comes when our deficiencies are shown and it is deflating. The defence against Belgium at times was wretched , not for the first time. Some of Southgates negative tactics do not help. I do believe though people are behind the country and there will be little negativity when next tournament comes along.
 
20togo said:
with regards to your last line Rekt, I think there's certainly been times in the last ten years when the so called interest has been less. Certainly when we lost to Iceland in the World Cup and a period after that.
However, I do ask the question with regards to double standards and hypocrisy. Do people only want to support England if they are successful or doing well? Isn't that what we accuse all these people who follow teams like Liverpool and United in the first place. Of jumping on the bandwagon of being a glory hunter. People who often have no association to the city where those teams play. Yet here we all are, the majority of us English, supposed football fans yet with a ridiculing attitude to our national team. I care about my national team as much as I do about BFC. i support them thru the good times and the bad. I'm desperate for both to do well. I don't give up on them just because the goings tough and they aren't doing well. And let's not forget England are currently ranked 4th in the world.

This ain't aimed at you Rekt, it's just a general comment on how I see it and how I see a lot of people..
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20's there are some fair points in that, and I didn't take it as aimed at me.

For me this point now hasn't just arrived overnight, it's the culmination of years of pish poor showings, lack of entertainment and the increasing distance between football and the English public.
Agreed there probably have been worse points over the last decade, the current Covid world is probably making England fixtures less appealing, however this trend was already in motion before Covid, you only have to look at the decline in match attendances.

Yes I am an England fan, I do support them regardless, however my interest has seriously waned over the last few years, now that might be down to my own differing commitments however my support for BFC is as strong as it's ever been. football in this country is at a seminal moment, there is increasing competition for people's attention and time, the football authorities at large do nothing to help the game in this country stay relevant. This I believe has a knock on effect on the national team, I believe this as a lot of people I speak to just generally don't care about the national team anymore, I don't think that was the case, 20 - 30 years ago.

Ruperthoop said:
I do not agree with the opinion that interest in the national team is likely to be at an all time low. I believe the public percieve that we now have a team and players capable of now retaining the ball for long periods whoever the opposition may be and have exciting players such as Kane, Stirling and Rashford whom are capable of hurting any team in the world, and people are excited about this. I think the problem comes when our deficiencies are shown and it is deflating. The defence against Belgium at times was wretched , not for the first time. Some of Southgates negative tactics do not help. I do believe though people are behind the country and there will be little negativity when next tournament comes along.
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It would be interesting to see viewing figures for the England fixtures, when people can't attend, or meet up at the pub to watch the game. I just honestly believe that football in general has changed so much in the past 20 years that its starting to loose relevance in peoples lives, like I say above I think we're at a cross roads the game and those that govern it only continue to damage the essence of it all.
 
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Rektseasider said:
20's there's some fair points in that, and I didn't take it as aimed at me.

For me this point now hasn't just arrived overnight, it's the culmination of years of pish poor showings, lack of entertainment and the increasing distance between football and the English public.
Agreed there probably have been worse points over the last decade, the current Covid world is probably making England fixtures less appealing, however this trend was already in motion before Covid, you only have to look at the decline in match attendances.

Yes I am an England fan, I do support them regardless, however my interest has seriously waned over the last few years, now that might be down to my own differing commitments however my support for BFC is as strong as it's ever been. football in this country is at a seminal moment, there is increasing competition for people's attention and time, the football authorities at large do nothing to help the game in this country stay relevant. This I believe has a knock on effect on the national team, I believe this as a lot of people I speak to just generally don't care about the national team anymore, I don't think that was the case, 20 - 30 years ago.


It would be interesting to see viewing figures for the England fixtures, when people can't attend, or meet up at the pub to watch the game. I just honestly believe that football in general has changed so much in the past 20 years that its starting to loose relevance in peoples lives, like I say above I think we're at a cross roads and the game and those that govern it only continue to damage the essence of it all.
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Good post, I just don’t seem to be able to get myself up for watching England games anymore yet my passion for watching pool is as strong as ever. For me it starts with the prem as I’ve also lost interest I. Watching that. A little bit of VAR, crap managers and maybe no fans at games.
 
20s - we used to chat about this a lot on the old site, many years ago. Good comments by both yourself and Rekt here. Yes I'm English and proud of it, I'm a football fan and of course therefore I want England's football team to be successful. It isn't about whether they're successful or not.

I mean, what's the definition of success for a national team? I was about 3 months old (give or take) when we won the World Cup, so I don't suppose I can claim to include that in my England supporting years. Two semi finals, and I recognise and proudly acknowledge the level of achievement involved in that.

I've said it before, when I was younger any England game whether it was a friendly, home international, qualifier or tournament game, was a huge event and you could take it as read that the starting eleven was England's first choice team (as available on the day), with the occasional introduction of a new player, like when Hoddle made his debut. Any cap won was massive.

That, for me, ended in Erikson's reign where the full team switches at half time started to reduce a cap's status.

As to the apathy for the team. I personally put that down to the wages following the introduction of the Prem. A sweeping statement, so let me try and expand a bit.

It's not the player's fault, or the manager's particularly. It's the League's for letting it happen and Sky's for offering it in the first place. When Europe's map changed significantly around the same time, then qualifying groups became larger. As a kid football contained a some very poor sides, and they generally got mullered by anyone half decent. Now, there are no really poor sides any longer, just very well drilled ones.

Soo England play the lower ranked European sides, and they're expected to win. No-one has the right to win a game but let's face it when we're playing the likes of Moldova, Belarus, Latvia etc it's there all the same. And a huge part of that expectation, for me, is the disparity in salaries of the two sets of players.

But these teams are well drilled and organised now, and a 0-0 soulless draw against the likes of England is a huge result for them. When you get down to much lower ranked sides like Luxembourg or Faroe Islands they'd actually be reasonably happy to lose 1-0 to us.

So England try hard to break down well organised twin ranks. And there's another problem, and one I do have a lot of sympathy for with the boss of the time - any England manager playing what might even remotely be termed "long ball" will be hounded by our wonderful press as dragging the team back 20 years. So the occasional attempt at going aerial to get through a limited but stubborn defence is I think denied them, because the manager fears the consequences.

So, given that we have to try and pass our way through them - to come back to the wages. I guess I can summarise all the above waffle by saying that when England play a limited but well drilled team, I do expect that they have enough skill and ability to pass their way through or round them, because I'd guess they earn anything upwards from 50% more than their opponents. if England's players think that's harsh then maybe they should ask if they deserve that much more? Because sadly, that's where my only problem with England lies.

We have some very exciting players now, and when they're flying they're great to watch. Like all modern passing teams it has to be done at speed to be effective, once we slow down we get really bogged down in trying to get round teams.
 
Scaramanga said:
Good post, I just don’t seem to be able to get myself up for watching England games anymore yet my passion for watching pool is as strong as ever. For me it starts with the prem as I’ve also lost interest I. Watching that. A little bit of VAR, crap managers and maybe no fans at games.
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CGP1 said:
20s - we used to chat about this a lot on the old site, many years ago. Good comments by both yourself and Rekt here. Yes I'm English and proud of it, I'm a football fan and of course therefore I want England's football team to be successful. It isn't about whether they're successful or not.

I mean, what's the definition of success for a national team? I was about 3 months old (give or take) when we won the World Cup, so I don't suppose I can claim to include that in my England supporting years. Two semi finals, and I recognise and proudly acknowledge the level of achievement involved in that.

I've said it before, when I was younger any England game whether it was a friendly, home international, qualifier or tournament game, was a huge event and you could take it as read that the starting eleven was England's first choice team (as available on the day), with the occasional introduction of a new player, like when Hoddle made his debut. Any cap won was massive.

That, for me, ended in Erikson's reign where the full team switches at half time started to reduce a cap's status.

As to the apathy for the team. I personally put that down to the wages following the introduction of the Prem. A sweeping statement, so let me try and expand a bit.

It's not the player's fault, or the manager's particularly. It's the League's for letting it happen and Sky's for offering it in the first place. When Europe's map changed significantly around the same time, then qualifying groups became larger. As a kid football contained a some very poor sides, and they generally got mullered by anyone half decent. Now, there are no really poor sides any longer, just very well drilled ones.

Soo England play the lower ranked European sides, and they're expected to win. No-one has the right to win a game but let's face it when we're playing the likes of Moldova, Belarus, Latvia etc it's there all the same. And a huge part of that expectation, for me, is the disparity in salaries of the two sets of players.

But these teams are well drilled and organised now, and a 0-0 soulless draw against the likes of England is a huge result for them. When you get down to much lower ranked sides like Luxembourg or Faroe Islands they'd actually be reasonably happy to lose 1-0 to us.

So England try hard to break down well organised twin ranks. And there's another problem, and one I do have a lot of sympathy for with the boss of the time - any England manager playing what might even remotely be termed "long ball" will be hounded by our wonderful press as dragging the team back 20 years. So the occasional attempt at going aerial to get through a limited but stubborn defence is I think denied them, because the manager fears the consequences.

So, given that we have to try and pass our way through them - to come back to the wages. I guess I can summarise all the above waffle by saying that when England play a limited but well drilled team, I do expect that they have enough skill and ability to pass their way through or round them, because I'd guess they earn anything upwards from 50% more than their opponents. if England's players think that's harsh then maybe they should ask if they deserve that much more? Because sadly, that's where my only problem with England lies.

We have some very exciting players now, and when they're flying they're great to watch. Like all modern passing teams it has to be done at speed to be effective, once we slow down we get really bogged down in trying to get round teams.
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Two well reasoned posts.

Both get to the crux of the matter, the Premier League, and moreover its effect on world football.

It would now appear that the first decade of the PL was manageable in regards to International Football, after this point salaries and muddled priorities started to take its toll. More recently the saturation of football in the fans life has diluted the enjoyment, I believe.
 
England were extremely flattered with getting to the last WC semi due to a very fortunate draw.

People were getting over excited again recently when we beat Belgium at Wembley,I thought the result did not reflect the game and posted let`s wait and see what happens in Belgium.

We`re a useful side with a man who may be a useful coach but not a motivator nor inspirational man manager.

We`ll win nothing significant with him in charge.
 
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REK

Thanks for your reply. Sorry, bit delayed in getting back to you.

I certainly understand a lot of what you say even if there are areas that in some cases I disagree with and in others I just don't feel the same as you. i recognise that as we all grow older from being a teenager up to wherever we are now in life, priorities and circumstances can change.. For me, people are fickle, a major championship comes around, and it seems all those who say they've no interest in the national team suddenly change their mind. We do well and they'll be at the front of the queue with this new found passion for the team. Everyones got an opinion on it. We do badly and they revert to type.. Criticism is rife and people say they couldn't care less about the national team. I find it odd that their psyche is so different between their support for BFC and their "support" for the national team. One is solely dependent on how well the team is doing and the other doesn't matter.
 
20togo said:
I'm a football fan, I'm English, England are playing so why wouldn't I want to watch it if I can..
I get the impression that football is only a casual pastime for some. Their choice of course but why try be so arsey about it when there's a game.. Suppose some will get more enjoyment of playing FIFA 21 on the playstation, xbox or whatever.
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There are some who get a kick out of knocking the National team and are usually the first to knock their local team as soon as things go wrong. Real fans stick to their team through thick or thin. I will be watching tonight, whether we have a full side out or a bunch of second stringers. I even watched the U21's last night. English and proud.
 
20togo said:
REK

Thanks for your reply. Sorry, bit delayed in getting back to you.

I certainly understand a lot of what you say even if there are areas that in some cases I disagree with and in others I just don't feel the same as you. i recognise that as we all grow older from being a teenager up to wherever we are now in life, priorities and circumstances can change.. For me, people are fickle, a major championship comes around, and it seems all those who say they've no interest in the national team suddenly change their mind. We do well and they'll be at the front of the queue with this new found passion for the team. Everyones got an opinion on it. We do badly and they revert to type.. Criticism is rife and people say they couldn't care less about the national team. I find it odd that their psyche is so different between their support for BFC and their "support" for the national team. One is solely dependent on how well the team is doing and the other doesn't matter.
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You may well be right that it is just a case that people as they get older loose a bit of their youthful enthusiasm. There will also be a lot of fair weather fans I can't deny that, BFC as well as England.

my point is really only anecdotal through my own experience as well as speaking to other fans, I say this as I don't nor ever could have considered myself a fair weather fan with BFC or England. With BFC despite the truly shocking times we've had recently I as well as many others have stuck through it, with England something really is different for me now. Again anecdotally, having spoken over the years to a fair few people I believe this is the case for scores of others.

You may consider me a fickle fan now, maybe you'd be correct but my point is that something has gone wrong with International football for so many people to be apathetic to it, when this, fairly recently wasn't the case. That is my point really, I don't believe it's the fans fault per say more the direction football has taken.
 
I also watched the U21`s and watch all our full internationals(as incidentally I do for all England cricket games and rugby internationals too except when bloody Amazon pinch them) but that does not mean that when they are underachieving as they are under Southgate I can`t say so.That`s not fickle that`s honesty and realism aligned to appropriate amount of positivity not deluded optimism, which is what I believe in and surely what England need.
 
1950`spoolfan said:
We`ll win nothing significant with him in charge.
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The reality is though it doesn't matter who is in charge, the fact is that there are only two major tournaments and winning either of those is extremely difficult with the quality of opposition we come up against. So many people seem not to take that into account thinking that we have a divine right to be winning trophies. People may wish to blame a manager, people may wish to blame the advent of the PL but the reality is we've only one major trophy in ninety years. But it's also true that not too many other nations have won something either.
 
cheers Rek,

Again just to re-iterate my comments weren't aimed at you personally. Fickleness is just the nature of the beast. Do well and everyone wants to know, do poorly and a lot of people will drift off.,
 
20togo said:
cheers Rek,

Again just to re-iterate my comments weren't aimed at you personally. Fickleness is just the nature of the beast. Do well and everyone wants to know, do poorly and a lot of people will drift off.,
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No don't worry 20's I know. Maybe I have become fickle, it's just not the same for me with England anymore.

Thing is I've stuck with England during some really abject times, so I think it's more football in general now, Premier League, saturation of games, becoming old and miserable etc etc.
 
Top managers are highly sought after and highly paid because they get more out of their teams .Ours isn`t ,so he won`t.We may or may not have enough talent to win a top tournament but we certainly need an effective manager as Ramsey , Venables and perhaps Robson were to give us any chance at all.

Southgate will say all the right things and offend no-one and may be a reasonable coach but that`s as far as it goes he`s not and never will have the personality be a top manager.
 
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The absence of any spectators is, I believe, a factor in this apathy, that goes for England and the Premier League. Supporting your home town club is different especially for us after the boycott years.

Another factor is Wembley and all the corporate bullsh*t. I went to a World Cup qualifying game vs Slovakia before the last World Cup at Wembley and the atmosphere was dead apart from a small band of Slovakia fans in one corner of the ground. I can't remember the crowd that night but it was far from full and the ticket price was extortionate given where the seat was.

When the Covid crisis is over then I think serious thought should be given to taking England games away from Wembley and back into the provincial stadiums. This was done when Wembley was being built and I think it would be great for young England fans to connect to the team again, we have some genuinely exciting young players coming through.

One final thought is our coaching structure and the lack of world class coaches in the English game. Let's face it Southgate got the job by default, nothing on his CV really stood out apart from actually playing for England! I don't see why young English coaches/managers like Graham Potter, Eddie Howe, Dean Smith, Chris Wilder are not invited into the International get togethers to give them a different perspective and also share their knowledge.
 
CGP1 said:
20s - we used to chat about this a lot on the old site, many years ago. Good comments by both yourself and Rekt here. Yes I'm English and proud of it, I'm a football fan and of course therefore I want England's football team to be successful. It isn't about whether they're successful or not.

I mean, what's the definition of success for a national team? I was about 3 months old (give or take) when we won the World Cup, so I don't suppose I can claim to include that in my England supporting years. Two semi finals, and I recognise and proudly acknowledge the level of achievement involved in that.

I've said it before, when I was younger any England game whether it was a friendly, home international, qualifier or tournament game, was a huge event and you could take it as read that the starting eleven was England's first choice team (as available on the day), with the occasional introduction of a new player, like when Hoddle made his debut. Any cap won was massive.

That, for me, ended in Erikson's reign where the full team switches at half time started to reduce a cap's status.

As to the apathy for the team. I personally put that down to the wages following the introduction of the Prem. A sweeping statement, so let me try and expand a bit.

It's not the player's fault, or the manager's particularly. It's the League's for letting it happen and Sky's for offering it in the first place. When Europe's map changed significantly around the same time, then qualifying groups became larger. As a kid football contained a some very poor sides, and they generally got mullered by anyone half decent. Now, there are no really poor sides any longer, just very well drilled ones.

Soo England play the lower ranked European sides, and they're expected to win. No-one has the right to win a game but let's face it when we're playing the likes of Moldova, Belarus, Latvia etc it's there all the same. And a huge part of that expectation, for me, is the disparity in salaries of the two sets of players.

But these teams are well drilled and organised now, and a 0-0 soulless draw against the likes of England is a huge result for them. When you get down to much lower ranked sides like Luxembourg or Faroe Islands they'd actually be reasonably happy to lose 1-0 to us.

So England try hard to break down well organised twin ranks. And there's another problem, and one I do have a lot of sympathy for with the boss of the time - any England manager playing what might even remotely be termed "long ball" will be hounded by our wonderful press as dragging the team back 20 years. So the occasional attempt at going aerial to get through a limited but stubborn defence is I think denied them, because the manager fears the consequences.

So, given that we have to try and pass our way through them - to come back to the wages. I guess I can summarise all the above waffle by saying that when England play a limited but well drilled team, I do expect that they have enough skill and ability to pass their way through or round them, because I'd guess they earn anything upwards from 50% more than their opponents. if England's players think that's harsh then maybe they should ask if they deserve that much more? Because sadly, that's where my only problem with England lies.

We have some very exciting players now, and when they're flying they're great to watch. Like all modern passing teams it has to be done at speed to be effective, once we slow down we get really bogged down in trying to get round teams.
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CGP1 - CROWN GREEN POOL?

Again apologies for an even later reply. Was reading your post para by para and nodding my head in agreement - until I got to your only problem. English players are very fortunate to be born English and have the benefit of the fantastic amounts of money that are are flowing about in the English game. And that is the key factor. Do they deserve much more? I think that's an unfair question as I don't think the amount being paid necessarily relates to a player being so much better than some-one else.

And I don't think it just applies to our PL players too. I know we talk about the current hardships of football but taking the Covid problem out of the equation would you think that some our L1 and L2 players get on average substantially more than for instance their Spanish or Italian counter parts? I don't know the answer but I maybe find it hard to think that the equivalent of some-one like Madine is earning 5-6 thousand euros per week in the Italian or Spanish third division. Players who I daresay will be more than matching ability wise. I might be wrong on that but I just wanted to highlight that I don't think it's right to match and compare players ability with their wage.
 
1950`spoolfan said:
Top managers are highly sought after and highly paid because they get more out of their teams .Ours isn`t ,so he won`t.We may or may not have enough talent to win a top tournament but we certainly need an effective manager as Ramsey , Venables and perhaps Robson were to give us any chance at all.

Southgate will say all the right things and offend no-one and may be a reasonable coach but that`s as far as it goes he`s not and never will have the personality be a top manager.
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1950`spoolfan said:
Top managers are highly sought after and highly paid because they get more out of their teams .Ours isn`t ,so he won`t.We may or may not have enough talent to win a top tournament but we certainly need an effective manager as Ramsey , Venables and perhaps Robson were to give us any chance at all.

Southgate will say all the right things and offend no-one and may be a reasonable coach but that`s as far as it goes he`s not and never will have the personality be a top manager.
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I get your point and as you say a good manger helps but ultimately the players have to be good enough and ours just come up short and I'd say that would still be the case even with a top manager. Capello was one of the best managers around at the time but even he couldn't succeed. For me, England at any given time have too many weakness in their team/squad. At the moment no matter who Southgate picks, there's a weakness in the g/k dept [ until he gives some-one other than Pickford a chance], we are weak in the centre of defence and I think we are weak in the holding midfield position. I think that probably most will agree on that although I'd go further by saying he's giving too many young players a chance who at their stage of development are still a long way short of being good enough to be at the standard we need to be challenging the very best.
 
It's a dead rubber, with all the appeal of a used one.

Fortunately, there is an episode of The Inspector Lynley Mysteries on.
 
Seainsea said:
The absence of any spectators is, I believe, a factor in this apathy, that goes for England and the Premier League. Supporting your home town club is different especially for us after the boycott years.

Another factor is Wembley and all the corporate bullsh*t. I went to a World Cup qualifying game vs Slovakia before the last World Cup at Wembley and the atmosphere was dead apart from a small band of Slovakia fans in one corner of the ground. I can't remember the crowd that night but it was far from full and the ticket price was extortionate given where the seat was.

When the Covid crisis is over then I think serious thought should be given to taking England games away from Wembley and back into the provincial stadiums. This was done when Wembley was being built and I think it would be great for young England fans to connect to the team again, we have some genuinely exciting young players coming through.

One final thought is our coaching structure and the lack of world class coaches in the English game. Let's face it Southgate got the job by default, nothing on his CV really stood out apart from actually playing for England! I don't see why young English coaches/managers like Graham Potter, Eddie Howe, Dean Smith, Chris Wilder are not invited into the International get togethers to give them a different perspective and also share their knowledge.
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I'm afraid I'm in disagreement again. Firstly, I've always been one for thinking the home of English football should be in the capital and that is Wembley but that's not really my main disagreement although it will mean I do have some bias. You talk of corporate and atmosphere. Well firstly all the big grounds who would likely hold an England game would have corporate so I really don't see the difference. Corporate is corporate. And then you talk about atmosphere. I've done a few England games at Wembley and I certainly get your point about atmosphere or lack of of it or even the phoniness of it. But my point is that those people attending the games are just the same wherever you're playing. If you played it at Old Trafford it's not gonna be 75,000 United fans in there roaring England on, it will be people from all over the country, just like it is at Wembley. Same if it was Liverpool, Chelsea or wherever. I think atmosphere is a unique thing and it's probably particular to each individual league club and is so much harder to replicate on a big scale for England games.
I did my first England game at Wembley in 1973 and have been both to the old Wembley and the new Wembley many times for club and country and seldom does the atmosphere for country come close to that of club. And as I say, I think that would be the same wherever England played their games.
I do though wholeheartedly agree with your last para.
 
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1950`spoolfan said:
England were extremely flattered with getting to the last WC semi due to a very fortunate draw.

People were getting over excited again recently when we beat Belgium at Wembley,I thought the result did not reflect the game and posted let`s wait and see what happens in Belgium.

We`re a useful side with a man who may be a useful coach but not a motivator nor inspirational man manager.

We`ll win nothing significant with him in charge.
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spot on apart from the useful coach bit he joins the long list of managers that continually let us be outnumbered in midfield which you cant do at the top level . Its a problem we have had with managers since hoddle or venables.The deluded keep going on nabout getting to the semi make me laugh they must have the memory of a goldfish or perhaps watch football through a young childs eyes
 
phill said:
spot on apart from the useful coach bit he joins the long list of managers that continually let us be outnumbered in midfield which you cant do at the top level . Its a problem we have had with managers since hoddle or venables.The deluded keep going on nabout getting to the semi make me laugh they must have the memory of a goldfish or perhaps watch football through a young childs eyes
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But we did get to the semis, there is nothing delusional about that. It's a fact. Was it Englands fault that their path to the semis was so called easier? I'd suggest it was the fault of other teams who didn't fulfill their own expectations. That's not Englands problem or fault. Perhaps you've got the brain of a pea not to realise that.
 
20togo said:
But we did get to the semis, there is nothing delusional about that. It's a fact. Was it Englands fault that their path to the semis was so called easier? I'd suggest it was the fault of other teams who didn't fulfill their own expectations. That's not Englands problem or fault. Perhaps you've got the brain of a pea not to realise that.
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That sort of specific personal abuse lowers the tone on here and is totally uncalled for however much you may disagree with other`s opinions which they have a perfect entitlement to expressing and what this board is for.
 
1950`spoolfan said:
That sort of personal abuse lowers the tone on here and is totally uncalled for however much you may disagree with others opinions which they have a perfect entitlement to expressing and what this board is for.
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Yep, I expected that from you. Of course you ignore the insults about "memory of a goldfish" and " a young childs eyes". That opinion and those words are perfectly valid to be said because he disagrees with some-one else opinion,eh..
 
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Makes me chuckle the way some people view our abilities and then that of the coach (past, present and almost certainly future).

When we've done well, it's been with players of quite obvious quality. 66, 90, 96 and 2002 (beaten only by a good Brazil side). Of course we got a good draw in Russia. So what. Does nobody else ever get that?

A coach can only extract so much additional value out of an average set of players. You can easily argue a strong case for the fact that Southgate got plenty out of his 2018 squad by adapting his system to make a better fist of tournament football. A better job than Cappello managed, even though Cappello had better players and was definitely a better coach.

A good coach will get more out of good players than out of average ones.

Set your expectations to levels that are sensible rather than thinking we should be winning everything. In domestic football terms, it's like Everton fans believing they're going to win the PL. Could it happen? Yes. Is it likely? Not really.
 
20togo said:
Yep, I expected that from you. Of course you ignore the comments about "memory of a goldfish" and " a young childs eyes".
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I am glad you did expect it from me just as I sadly expected the personal abuse from you although not to me this time.His remarks were general not aimed specifically at you but you being you hypersensitively took them personally and made your unnecessarily personal remarks
 
1950`spoolfan said:
I am glad you did expect it from me just as I sadly expected the personal abuse from you although not to me this time.His remarks were general not aimed specifically at you but you being you hypersensitively took them personally and made your unnecessarily personal remarks
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clearly you didn't like my post telling you how difficult it is for any manager to win a tournament with England. Sorry if that upset you. It clearly doesn't go with your negativity the fact England got to the semi final of a world Cup. I'm proud my country got to the semi-final of a world cup so yep, his comments were aimed at me and those who think the same as I do.
 
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Far from it. I agree how difficult it obviously is for us to win a major tournament though since `66 all the major footballing nations in Europe,Germany,Italy,France and Spain have done better than us even though even before the influx of foreign players OUR club teams including Liverpool,Notts Forest and Man. Utd have won many European club trophies as well as many since then and compared to our national team and have a far superior record.

Perhaps due to the likes of Busby,Shankly,Paisley ,Clough and Ferguson being in charge and now of course Klopp ,men who all made the difference between being quite good or in Clough`s case not very good and the very best.
 
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1950`spoolfan said:
Far from it. I agree how difficult it obviously is for us to win a major tournament though since `66 all the major footballing nations in Europe,Germany,Italy,France and Spain have done better than us even though even before the influx of foreign players OUR club teams including Liverpool,Notts Forest and Man. Utd have won many European club trophies as well as many since then and compared to our national team and have a far superior record.

Perhaps due to the likes of Busby,Shankly,Paisley ,Clough and Ferguson being in charge and now of course Klopp ,men who all made the difference between being quite good or in Clogh`s case not very good and the very best.
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"superior record". A good case for saying it's the best league in the world then.
 
I am looking forward to the England game tonight!

Lots to be positive about IMO... the technical ability of the England team has improved a lot in recent years - especially with the younger players, we have a better depth of squad in terms of quality than I have seen for 20+ years - look at our attacking options, the country seemed to get back behind the national team again at the last World Cup, we qualified for the Nations League finals beating Spain, dominated away in Belgium (ranked no 1 in world) at the weekend, Euros on home soil next year... 👍

Lots of unnecessary criticism of the England team IMO and I am as positive about them as I am about Blackpool nowadays!!
 
I don`t get this "unnecessary criticism" stuff.England have just lost to Denmark and Belgium and failed to qualify after a very fortunate 2-1 home win with a deflected goal against Belgium.

We are entitled to expect a lot from England,the home of football, with lots of successful teams in the younger age groups and, admittedly with plenty of foreign players, perhaps the best Premier league in the world but we are not producing anywhere near that at the top level apart from reaching a very flattering WC semi final having avoided the best teams apart from Belgium whom we lost to . We then went out with barely a whimper to Croatia who were well beaten in the final ,we having previously scraped past Columbia on penalties.

I will though watch tonight against another team who humiliated us in a major tournament in the not too distant past although I can fully understand those who prefer to go shopping at Iceland instead.
 
1950`spoolfan said:
I don`t get this "unnecessary criticism" stuff.England have just lost to Denmark and Belgium and failed to qualify after a very fortunate 2-1 home win with a deflected goal against Belgium.

We are entitled to expect a lot from England,the home of football, with lots of successful teams in the younger age groups and, admittedly with plenty of foreign players, perhaps the best Premier league in the world but we are not producing anywhere near that at the top level apart from reaching a very flattering WC semi final having avoided the best teams apart from Belgium whom we lost to . We then went out with barely a whimper to Croatia who were well beaten in the final ,we having previously scraped past Columbia on penalties.

I will though watch tonight against another team who humiliated us in a major tournament in the not too distant past although I can fully understand those who prefer to go shopping at Iceland instead.
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Another extremely negative post from an extremely negative poster. Again you fail to grasp the point that England had the so called easier path to the semi finals because other so called favourites failed to realise their potential. As I said, is that Englands fault? And your negativity continues with your comments on the Croatia game. We score first but lose 2-1 in extra time and it's "barely a whimper" Pathetic comment. You seem to want us to fail so you can get some enjoyment from it.

The only thing you're positive about is telling us of your successes on the horses. That's after they've all run of course.
 
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Surprising line-up for me. Thought he might have given another keeper a chance but his loyalty to Pickford seems strong. Surprised also he's starting Kane. DCL deserves a chance in a supposed meaningful match. Dier reward for his mistake by getting another game. Glad to see Foden back in. See how he links up with Grealish.
 
20togo said:
Another extremely negative post from an extremely negative poster. Again you fail to grasp the point that England had the so called easier path to the semi finals because other so called favourites failed to realise their potential. As I said, is that Englands fault? And your negativity continues with your comments on the Croatia game. We score first but lose 2-1 in extra time and it's "barely a whimper" Pathetic comment. You seem to want us to fail so you can get some enjoyment from it.

The only thing you're positive about is telling us of your successes on the horses. That's after they've all run of course.
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So of the last 6 tips I posted on here 5 won, which was last February and HighfieldSeaside posted on here he had a £2.50 ew treble on the first three and won around £115.

Your unpleasant unneccessary abuse which I referred to above is only matched by the bollux you spout on here.
 
1950`spoolfan said:
So of the last 6 tips I posted on here 5 won, which was last February and HighfieldSeaside posted on here he had a £2.50 ew treble on the first three and won around £115.

Your unpleasant unneccessary abuse which I referred to above is only matched by the bollux you spout on here.
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Nah, you're the one talking bollux. What is "barely a whimper" about a team losing 2-1 after extra time. What is bollux about our route to the semi-final should have included Germany. Is it Englands fault that Germany were eliminated beforehand. You don't seem to want to address those points, Why is that? It's because you are one helluva negative poster. You love saying I told you so and that includes about BFC and no doubt the only reason you'll be watching tonight is hoping we lose so you can spout more of your negativity.
 
Dollar Thief said:
This.

Some think that getting to the WC semi final the way we did was a great achievement.

If you'd have seen the run to the semi final we had then that would have been an absolute minimum.
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And we should have met Germany in the q/f. Is it Englands fault that our route was easier because they had been knocked out. No doubt if Geramany had made it thru and we'd have been them then you would not be moaning. If we'd lost to them then you'd be saying it was to be expected and we are not as good as them. In effect the England team couldn't win in your eyes. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.d
 
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