Furlough

Halifax71 said:
how the hell do we pay for that. 👎
At least put a stop on being able to work elsewhere and claim. That's just a joke.
www.bbc.co.uk

UK furlough scheme extended by four months

The scheme to pay wages of workers on leave because of coronavirus has been extended to the end of October.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Our children, their children and their children will be paying this debt off. I'd like some visibility from HMG as to how the overall debt is going to be paid off and what the likely impact will be on us and the UK economy.
A lot of companies appear to be abusing this scheme out of convenience to their company, by furloughing their staff, when, with a bit of planning, they could actually be working. I doubt many will be topping up the 80% either, I know my daughters company are not, and that's resulted in me & her mum topping her wages up so that she & her family can manage.
 
I’m guessing they will be trying to get sector by sector industries back to work but by bit and the furlough numbers will come down bit by bit.

It’s better to do this than end up with perfectly serviceable businesses going through liquidation needlessly and there be no jobs for people to go back to.

If this was just the UK doing it we would be toast. As the rest of the world is affected then borrowing as percentage of GDP will be going up massively for every one reaching a new level of indebtedness that the world will cope with. It’s like water levels rising. As long as we keep the ships afloat across the world we are alright!
 
I think it was announced to stave off companies who may be heading for the notice period for redundancies again, I'm sure most of us will start going in again in three weeks, so the costwll start dropping. I also think it will be more needed in tourist places like Blackpool and where we live, cos without tourists, many of us will have little to do, and little sales coming in.
 
It's the right thing to do. The way to reduce the cost to the Treasury of furloughing is to get businesses back up and running first (with enhanced h&s where possible), rather than cutting people's income or stopping the scheme abruptly. Businesses wil get back on their feet faster if those 6.3m people on the furlough scheme can afford to buy things. By extending the current scheme with no alterations, they're actually going to reduce the long term financial burden than if they just cut the amount to 60%.
 
The devil is in the detail here.

Nothing changes until end of July.

Then companies will start paying towards the 80% the employee gets but they will be allowed to work part time.

How much companies have to pay towards it will be announced by end of May.
 
The current scheme is extended to end of July. It’ll then change to allow for part time working and also with employers contributing to the cost, albeit there are no details as yet.

Flexibility is important as I doubt there’s going to be a “bounce back” to where we were pre covid19. So not all existing staff will necessarily be needed immediately. The alternative would be to make staff redundant but the taxpayer would still pick up the cost of the benefits whilst also losing the tax.

So all in all pretty sensible.
 
BFC_53 said:
It's the right thing to do. The way to reduce the cost to the Treasury of furloughing is to get businesses back up and running first (with enhanced h&s where possible), rather than cutting people's income or stopping the scheme abruptly. Businesses wil get back on their feet faster if those 6.3m people on the furlough scheme can afford to buy things. By extending the current scheme with no alterations, they're actually going to reduce the long term financial burden than if they just cut the amount to 60%.
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Oldly enough they’ll be the only ones able to take a holiday abroad late Summer and not worry about having to take 2 weeks off work in quarantine when they re enter the UK.
That will be a tough pill to swallow for those unable to quarantine through work commitments 🤔
 
Brett scores for fun said:
Our children, their children and their children will be paying this debt off. I'd like some visibility from HMG as to how the overall debt is going to be paid off and what the likely impact will be on us and the UK economy.
A lot of companies appear to be abusing this scheme out of convenience to their company, by furloughing their staff, when, with a bit of planning, they could actually be working. I doubt many will be topping up the 80% either, I know my daughters company are not, and that's resulted in me & her mum topping her wages up so that she & her family can manage.
Click to expand...

I think the long-term cost of this would be a great deal higher if we had a fully-fledged Depression ; and I fear that is exactly what would have happened had the Chancellor not taken the actions he has. So, for future generations, this is the least-worst alternative, as far as I can see. And this announcement defuses an issue that worries a lot people who would be affected, at least for a while anyway.

It also pisses all over John McDonnell's chips. He was quickly onto Twitter today, anticipating that the rate would be cut to 60% and accusing the Government of trying to starve people back to work. I await his retraction and apology with interest. 😎
 
From a selfish point of view I’m a little disappointed. As one of only three people at the company that hasn’t been furloughed I’m feeling a little bitter about the fact that most of the company will get potentially 8 months off paid at 80% while I pick up the slack for only 20% more. I don’t feel like taking my holidays as why should I when everyone else is getting paid for doing nowt. Plus when everyone eventually turns back up st work are they still going to get their holiday entitlement ? A conversation may be in order with the man at the top I think.
 
Scaramanga said:
From a selfish point of view I’m a little disappointed. As one of only three people at the company that hasn’t been furloughed I’m feeling a little bitter about the fact that most of the company will get potentially 8 months off paid at 80% while I pick up the slack for only 20% more. I don’t feel like taking my holidays as why should I when everyone else is getting paid for doing nowt. Plus when everyone eventually turns back up st work are they still going to get their holiday entitlement ? A conversation may be in order with the man at the top I think.
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I think it’s fair enough you feel a bit bitter and people should be allowed to express that. There are definitely some huge discrepancies in peoples versions of lockdown even though they’re are largely unavoidable.
 
basilrobbie said:
I think the long-term cost of this would be a great deal higher if we had a fully-fledged Depression ; and I fear that is exactly what would have happened had the Chancellor not taken the actions he has. So, for future generations, this is the least-worst alternative, as far as I can see. And this announcement defuses an issue that worries a lot people who would be affected, at least for a while anyway.

It also pisses all over John McDonnell's chips. He was quickly onto Twitter today, anticipating that the rate would be cut to 60% and accusing the Government of trying to starve people back to work. I await his retraction and apology with interest. 😎
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I think he might have been dealt a " bum steer" as it was first reported that it would be cut to 60% in the Torygraph 😀
 
Old_Laytonian said:
I think he might have been dealt a " bum steer" as it was first reported that it would be cut to 60% in the Torygraph 😀
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If that’s correct then i wouldn’t put it passed them to leak 60% to make them look more saintly. Still good for the 6 million, is it, who are on furlough

I pity the sad fool further up the thread who seems to think that this is Tory policy 🙃
 
Scaramanga said:
From a selfish point of view I’m a little disappointed. As one of only three people at the company that hasn’t been furloughed I’m feeling a little bitter about the fact that most of the company will get potentially 8 months off paid at 80% while I pick up the slack for only 20% more. I don’t feel like taking my holidays as why should I when everyone else is getting paid for doing nowt. Plus when everyone eventually turns back up st work are they still going to get their holiday entitlement ? A conversation may be in order with the man at the top I think.
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🎻🎻🎻
 
Scaramanga said:
From a selfish point of view I’m a little disappointed. As one of only three people at the company that hasn’t been furloughed I’m feeling a little bitter about the fact that most of the company will get potentially 8 months off paid at 80% while I pick up the slack for only 20% more. I don’t feel like taking my holidays as why should I when everyone else is getting paid for doing nowt. Plus when everyone eventually turns back up st work are they still going to get their holiday entitlement ? A conversation may be in order with the man at the top I think.
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Perhaps you should volunteer to be furloughed instead.
 
Scaramanga said:
From a selfish point of view I’m a little disappointed. As one of only three people at the company that hasn’t been furloughed I’m feeling a little bitter about the fact that most of the company will get potentially 8 months off paid at 80% while I pick up the slack for only 20% more. I don’t feel like taking my holidays as why should I when everyone else is getting paid for doing nowt. Plus when everyone eventually turns back up st work are they still going to get their holiday entitlement ? A conversation may be in order with the man at the top I think.
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I’ve been working and most admin staff around me have been furloughed. I haven’t really thought about the point you make. If I wasn’t earning more that then £2500 amount I think I would be quite miffed but that’s life. At least me working ensures the business keeps going and we all have jobs to return to fingers crossed. I think those that have worked through Without furlough support should get some sort of bonus tax break or something.
 
clappers said:
I’ve been working and most admin staff around me have been furloughed. I haven’t really thought about the point you make. If I wasn’t earning more that then £2500 amount I think I would be quite miffed but that’s life. At least me working ensures the business keeps going and we all have jobs to return to fingers crossed. I think those that have worked through Without furlough support should get some sort of bonus tax break or something.
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Yes please 😁
 
Scaramanga said:
From a selfish point of view I’m a little disappointed. As one of only three people at the company that hasn’t been furloughed I’m feeling a little bitter about the fact that most of the company will get potentially 8 months off paid at 80% while I pick up the slack for only 20% more. I don’t feel like taking my holidays as why should I when everyone else is getting paid for doing nowt. Plus when everyone eventually turns back up st work are they still going to get their holiday entitlement ? A conversation may be in order with the man at the top I think.
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An employee’s holiday entitlement is unaffected if furloughed.
 
Scaramanga said:
From a selfish point of view I’m a little disappointed. As one of only three people at the company that hasn’t been furloughed I’m feeling a little bitter about the fact that most of the company will get potentially 8 months off paid at 80% while I pick up the slack for only 20% more. I don’t feel like taking my holidays as why should I when everyone else is getting paid for doing nowt. Plus when everyone eventually turns back up st work are they still going to get their holiday entitlement ? A conversation may be in order with the man at the top I think.
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A lot of firms are paying the 20%, so think yourself lucky you're not doing all the work for no extra than those at home.
 
L’étranger said:
An employee’s holiday entitlement is unaffected if furloughed.
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But depending on what they agreed they could be required to take holiday during the furlough period. From the employer’s perspective, if someone is going to be absent it’s logical that’s during the furlough period, when the government pays 80%, rather than after the furlough period, when the employer picks up 100%. I did a thread a while ago about how a lot of employers were doing just that, and requiring staff to take holidays now. It seemed a bit of a scam on the taxpayers to me to be honest.
 
I have to say that I'm concerned how "we" are going to pay for this. As someone who doesn't qualify for any government help and am currently working harder than usual to try to earn a living I think 80% is too much - atm for most people receiving 80% of their normal wage will mean they are financially better off than usual because of the lack of travel, other work costs, no socialising or holidays etc. I have a daughter who is furloughed but think 60 or 70% would have been the right amount. Being paid so much for doing nothing doesn't sit well with me... although of course there are plenty in our society who do just that in normal times, never mind now. It's just not "free money"... there will be a massive economic cost because of this furlough scheme.
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Of course, maybe I'm just jealous (expecting violins or similar from the usual crew 🤪 )
 
BlackpoolWolves said:
I have to say that I'm concerned how "we" are going to pay for this. As someone who doesn't qualify for any government help and am currently working harder than usual to try to earn a living I think 80% is too much - atm for most people receiving 80% of their normal wage will mean they are financially better off than usual because of the lack of travel, other work costs, no socialising or holidays etc. I have a daughter who is furloughed but think 60 or 70% would have been the right amount. Being paid so much for doing nothing doesn't sit well with me... although of course there are plenty in our society who do just that in normal times, never mind now. It's just not "free money"... there will be a massive economic cost because of this furlough scheme.
...
Of course, maybe I'm just jealous (expecting violins or similar from the usual crew 🤪 )
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You need to remember that the whole point of furlough wasn’t to reward people for sitting at home. It was to relieve employers of a huge lump of costs. In short the subsidy has been given to businesses; not the furloughed staff.
 
BlackpoolWolves said:
I have to say that I'm concerned how "we" are going to pay for this. As someone who doesn't qualify for any government help and am currently working harder than usual to try to earn a living I think 80% is too much - atm for most people receiving 80% of their normal wage will mean they are financially better off than usual because of the lack of travel, other work costs, no socialising or holidays etc. I have a daughter who is furloughed but think 60 or 70% would have been the right amount. Being paid so much for doing nothing doesn't sit well with me... although of course there are plenty in our society who do just that in normal times, never mind now. It's just not "free money"... there will be a massive economic cost because of this furlough scheme.
...
Of course, maybe I'm just jealous (expecting violins or similar from the usual crew 🤪 )
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Yes we will all pay the economic price in the future, Tax rises and various other ways to try and recoup the money. That’s another reason why it feels like a double whammy.
 
Scaramanga said:
Is there something in the law Mex Regarding this ?
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Because furlough is a new concept in the UK most employment contracts wouldn’t cover it. So most employees were asked to agree to go on furlough - essentially they agreed to a variation of contract.

The letters I’ve seen that employees were asked to sign allow the employer to require the employee to take their holiday during furlough (although they would then be entitled to 100% of theIt salary).

As I’ve said, the reason employers would require staff to take holiday during the furlough is because the government covers 80% of the period of absence. Post furlough holiday is paid 100% by the employer. Hence why employers are requiring staff to treat furlough as holiday.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
But depending on what they agreed they could be required to take holiday during the furlough period. From the employer’s perspective, if someone is going to be absent it’s logical that’s during the furlough period, when the government pays 80%, rather than after the furlough period, when the employer picks up 100%. I did a thread a while ago about how a lot of employers were doing just that, and requiring staff to take holidays now. It seemed a bit of a scam on the taxpayers to me to be honest.
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If they take holiday you have to top up to 100%
And as you say it depends what's agreed
To me it's only right that holiday is taken during furlough as otherwise when the employees return they will have stockpiled holiday a bit like when someone has been on maternity
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
If they take holiday you have to top up to 100%
And as you say it depends what's agreed
To me it's only right that holiday is taken during furlough as otherwise when the employees return they will have stockpiled holiday a bit like when someone has been on maternity
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I know. And if I was still an employer I dare say I’d be saying the same thing.

As a taxpayer my perspective is slightly different. We’re supplying businesses (not employees) with a subsidy. Requiring employees to take Holiday during furlough is a way of maxing out that subsidy. Employers pay 20% for absent during furlough or 100% post furlough.
 
I doubt that’s the thought process for many

More a case of avoiding stockpiling

Most I’ve seen just say you have to take the holidays you accrue during furlough
 
What do you know about zero hour workers Tam, worked all last year bar 3/4 weeks holidays,since this furlough was introduced I've had 2 days off due to less work. Maybe in a few weeks, work maybe quieter and may have no work for a wee or two but still work Sat night. Would I be able to claim lost hours based on last years.
 
You don’t claim your employer gets a grant
If your pay varies because you are on a zero hours contract, then the 80% limit will be based on the same month’s earning from this time last year, or your average monthly pay during the 2019-20 tax year - whichever is highest.
 
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