Recidivist3
Well-known member
** useless morons
EVERYONE was not on board. It was obvious at the time and was called out as such. Anyway, it's not this board saying they were criminally irresponsible, it's the official report.I'm not a fan of the govt but EVERYONE was on board with this at the time, myself included. Off the back of Neil Ferguson's magic models, the message was clear - the hospital's WILL get swamped and need to be emptied pronto.
That was obviously a huge mistake in hindsight and was the pandemic in a nutshell. Once it was seeded in hospitals and care homes, it was done. The community stuff (supermarket traffic lights, stay at home orders, scotch eggs, tiers, closed playgrounds etc etc) was just useless and nasty pointlessness at that.
Not arguing about the outcome Wiz - it was criminal negligence and I've argued such many times myself. However, I can tell you now for a fact that at that specific time, the message was loud and clear. Get people out of hospital toot sweet. That was all part of the "national effort" at that time. Perhaps you were were painting rainbows and banging pans around that time, I don't know. I was being paid overtime to discharge patients (not my usual job) from hospital as directed (quickly). Fortunately for my conscience only back to their homes but I can tell you for a fact that the edict was clear and came from on high, driven by the modelling and public clamour to 'not do an Italy'.EVERYONE was not on board. It was obvious at the time and was called out as such. Anyway, it's not this board saying they were criminally irresponsible, it's the official report.
The judgement doesn't have either of those two words in it; it's the OP who is claiming them to be criminally irresponsible. The actual wording from the summary is:EVERYONE was not on board. It was obvious at the time and was called out as such. Anyway, it's not this board saying they were criminally irresponsible, it's the official report.
Dont think so !I'm not a fan of the govt but EVERYONE was on board with this at the time, myself included. Off the back of Neil Ferguson's magic models, the message was clear - the hospital's WILL get swamped and need to be emptied pronto.
That was obviously a huge mistake in hindsight and was the pandemic in a nutshell. Once it was seeded in hospitals and care homes, it was done. The community stuff (supermarket traffic lights, stay at home orders, scotch eggs, tiers, closed playgrounds etc etc) was just useless and nasty pointlessness at that.
"It’s a Communist one-party state, we said. We couldn’t get away with it in Europe, we thought".I'm sure those advising ministers were looking at what was happening around the world and giving what they thought was the best advice.
Nothing new. Been going on for years with other governments.** useless morons
Deflection. This shower of shite have been in power for 12 years. You can't blame the previous lot now. It's all on them, including the pernicious lack of investment in public services that exacerbated the whole pandemic death toll.Nothing new. Been going on for years with other governments.
Nobody wanted any of these govt actions AK. They are so angry the govt did what the rest of the idiot (non avftt) public was screaming for. Are you having that one AK? Is that how you recall things?Fuck all will come of it anyway, hopefully Matt Hancock’s book sales take the hit from it.
I know a lot of people who weren't on board, guess where they work?I'm not a fan of the govt but EVERYONE was on board with this at the time, myself included. Off the back of Neil Ferguson's magic models, the message was clear - the hospital's WILL get swamped and need to be emptied pronto.
That was obviously a huge mistake in hindsight and was the pandemic in a nutshell. Once it was seeded in hospitals and care homes, it was done. The community stuff (supermarket traffic lights, stay at home orders, scotch eggs, tiers, closed playgrounds etc etc) was just useless and nasty pointlessness at that.
Okay, most people. You catch my drift though. It's probably the only time in the pandemic that the vast, vast majority of people were pulling in the same direction. Since then, it's been the blame game and nasty finger pointing all the way. It was certainly a personal fork in the road for me and just following orders was out from that moment on.I know a lot of people who weren't on board, guess where they work?
Yes it was a catastrophic decision but it wasn't what the OP states.
Yeah I agree that most of the public went along with it and the beds were needed, which is what happens when you have an entire system with no spare capacity whatsoever because 'business principals = capacity is waste'.Okay, most people. You catch my drift though. It's probably the only time in the pandemic that the vast, vast majority of people were pulling in the same direction. Since then, it's been the blame game and nasty finger pointing all the way.
Can't believe I missed an opportunity to bring up choreographed TikTok nurse dances here. Must try harderI know a lot of people who weren't on board, guess where they work?
I agree with most of what you say here, especially the last paragraph.Yeah I agree that most of the public went along with it and the beds were needed, which is what happens when you have an entire system with no spare capacity whatsoever because 'business principals = capacity is waste'.
In an alternate universe I'd hope the lesson has been learned that running public services with no spare capacity is madness, but in this universe it won't have been, because the people running the system are ** self serving idiots who preen themselves off presenting 'cost saving measures' while pulling in six figure salaries, it's not like they haven't had a warning every bloody winter, so the next time we'll just end up sending a load of vulnerable people in to a situation that poses huge risk to them again.
Bad decisions were made because bad decision were made previously, it's just a never ending cycle of incompetence from those who know the cost of everything and the value of nowt.
Life on the edge..Hey, twojags, your ability to master the simple art of posting a comment on here certainly seems to lack credibility.
As for extreme, coming from a guy whose idea of extreme is having a bourbon cream rather than a custard cream with his mug of tea, I can understand why you might think that
Is memory loss a symptom of long covid maybe?Nobody wanted any of these govt actions AK. They are so angry the govt did what the rest of the idiot (non avftt) public was screaming for. Are you having that one AK? Is that how you recall things?
His agenda is not extreme. It is obviously not your agenda but it still counts as a legitimate contribution to a sensible debate.The OP has no credibility on this site. His extreme political agenda prevents any kind of sensible debate.
Surplus capacity budgeting for public infrastructure is both sensible and, in the long term, fully justified. Back in the day, when I was in the MoD I remember RAF junior ranks being used to drive coaches to move staff around the country. A colleague bemoaned the waste and quoted Hestletine's book about waste in the public sector. But surplus capacity budgeting is the price that a civilised society must pay to manage risk. Others on here will recall Blackpool Council continuing to operate with conductors on the buses, long after other authorities had dispensed with them. It was because of the extra demand in the summer for conductors doubling up on the trams.".....which is what happens when you have an entire system with no spare capacity whatsoever because 'business principals = capacity is waste'.
Bad decisions were made because bad decision were made previously, it's just a never ending cycle of incompetence from those who know the cost of everything and the value of nowt.
I wish I’d said that …. or maybe I didHis agenda is not extreme. It is obviously not your agenda but it still counts as a legitimate contribution to a sensible debate.
But the decisions to run without capacity go back to Blair and beyond.As for your final point about bad decisions being made as a consequence of previous decisions being bad...I don't accept that. The fact is that the Tory Government has been taken over by an incompetent leader, who's power base depends on having incompetent people around him.
Oh yes. They go back to Denis Healey (maybe before) and the introduction of annual cash limits on Supply budgets. Also - not a political point but a constitutional one - in order to protect Parliamentary authority over public revenues and expenditure we have this debilitating requirement to vote Government funding every year. This means that for all but a very few Capital budgets, funding for even ongoing running costs has to be bid for each year and surrendered at the end of the financial year. I would allow far greater flexibility by facilitating an underpinning a minimum voted Supply for the whole of a Government's 5 year tenure. That would provide security of planning beyond the rolling three year planning cycle currently operated.But the decisions to run without capacity go back to Blair and beyond.
You can't control a virus. Some still haven't got to grips with this basic fact.Ya and they got all the big decisions right??
You've gone way beyond my knowledge there but interesting stuffOh yes. They go back to Denis Healey (maybe before) and the introduction of annual cash limits on Supply budgets. Also - not a political point but a constitutional one - in order to protect Parliamentary authority over public revenues and expenditure we have this debilitating requirement to vote Government funding every year. This means that for all but a very few Capital budgets, funding for even ongoing running costs has to be bid for each year and surrendered at the end of the financial year. I would allow far greater flexibility by facilitating an underpinning a minimum voted Supply for the whole of a Government's 5 year tenure. That would provide security of planning beyond the rolling three year planning cycle currently operated.
His agenda is not extreme. It is obviously not your agenda but it still counts as a legitimate contribution to a sensible debate.