Grooming Gangs. No Police to be charged.

[Curryman]

I saw the other day a piece about the Police inquiry into why no arrests or in some cases investigations had been completed on grooming gangs around the country and consequently, no officers were to be charged or held to account over the failings. I couldn't understand how such a whitewash could happen when, it has since their lack of action then, been blatantly obvious what these gangs were up to.

Then I came across the following in various reports. Gordon Brown, via the Home Office, had, in 2008, sent a circular email to all police forces calling on them to not investigate the sexual exploitation of young girls in towns and cities across the UK. It was their belief that the victims, young girls, had made an informed choice about their sexual behaviour and therefore it was not for police officers to get involved.

The source of the information came from Nazir Afzal, the former North West Prosecutor who succeeded Keir Stamer and reversed a Crown Prosecution Service decision to successfully prosecute the notorious Rochdale rape gang, in an interview on Radio 4.

So, there lies the answer, by all accounts.

 

[EagleDay]

Can any politician be trusted? How long will it be before our schools reach the same level of indoctrination as reported in the USA and who is there who would be willing to halt it?

 

[Mexboroseasider]

Can any politician be trusted? How long will it be before our schools reach the same level of indoctrination as reported in the USA and who is there who would be willing to halt it?

How have you jumped from prosecuting guidelines for the CPS and police to the school curriculum?

 

[Recidivist3]

Struggled to find a source I recognised for this one amongst the many options though I’m sure there’s one out there

I’m just wondering, in a whataboutery kind of way, what happened when the Tories told the police to ignore Gordon’s email

 

[Bend it like Suddick]

Don't forget that the Police liaise with Social Services in instances like this, often getting their directions in any action from them. If SS were deficient, which they were, therein lies another problem.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Nazir Afzal was Chief Prosecutor in North West England from 2011 to 2015 and does appear to be a very respected individual. It is, therefore, important to read behind the explosive headline in the publication Politicalite: "GORDON Brown’s Labour Government allegedly urged Police Forces across the UK ‘not to investigate’ grooming gangs," to see what Mr Afzal actually sad in his interview with the BBC.

According to Altnewsmedia Nazir Afzal made the comment when he was interviewed on the Radio 4 PM programme on 19th October (2018). What he said was this: "back in 2008, the Home Office sent a circular to all police forces in the country stating: "as far as these young girls who are being exploited in towns and cities, we believe they have made an informed choice about their sexual behaviour and therefore it is not for police officers to get involved in." This was quoted correctly by Politicalite. However, when questioned about whether the Metropolitan Police had received such a letter the London Mayor's office stated: "Without further details the Met Police is unable to identify the Home Office circular from 2008 referred to nor the letter in question. Therefore, they cannot state whether any investigations were closed down in response to the letter or whether any order in the letter was later rescinded." Similarly, in response to a FOI query, West Mercia Police said there was,"No specific recorded information held." Furthermore, a search of the words "informed Choice" finds nothing on https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk.

In the International Business Times Nazir Afzal writes....

"The term "child prostitute" was used to describe victims and the Home Office in a circular to police in 2008 used that term and spoke of girls making an "informed choice" to engage in this behaviour"

However, there is no mention of an instruction saying that police shouldn't get involved. Indeed, his IBT article goes on to state: "Following the case, everyone including the prime minister chose to respond to the lessons learnt. I was commended in parliament and in the media."

So, what of the publisher of the explosive headline about Gordon Brown's Government?
their support us page claims ...."Politicalite is the truly independent news site that reports the unreported news by the people for the people, but we are under attack by the Establishment who are trying to censor real news written by the people for the people." The search bar at the top of the page contains individual links to Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farage. An overview of its contents clear shows that its editorial stance is to support Robinson, Farage and, indeed, Donald Trump.

Perhaps a cellarful of salt would be in order when reviewing their stories.

 

[Recidivist3]

Curryman tends to believe everything that backs his peculiar point of view

 

[Curryman]

Curryman tends to believe everything that backs his peculiar point of view

Well, that's the first time I've been called peculiar. I presume you are meaning the mention of the Labour Party who seem to be sacrosanct on here. However, if you look at the thread on the AVFTT site (THE OYSTON FILES (by Andrew Rosthorn), and my reply, you'll note that it's the Tories and Maggie in particular who are mentioned in a cover-up. So, I suppose that does make me peculiar, mentioning both main parties in the past tense from some years ago.

 

[Lost Seasider]

This was quoted correctly by Politicate.

The important line, and the weak denials from a couple of sources are far from compelling.

However, there is no mention of an instruction saying that police shouldn't get involved. Indeed, his IBT article goes on to state: "Following the case, everyone including the prime minister chose to respond to the lessons learnt. I was commended in parliament and in the media."

The implications are obvious, even if not explicitly stated, and AFAICS that wasn't until 2011 or 2012.

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

So no Police are going to be charged.

We’ll there’s a massive surprise.

Lets all just sit back and do nothing.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

The important line, and the weak denials from a couple of sources are far from compelling.




The implications are obvious, even if not explicitly stated, and AFAICS that wasn't until 2011 or 2012.

There is no denial that he said it - I've heard it on an except from the PM programme. The important points are that when questioned, two police forces say they could not locate any such Home Office memo. Also, the comment stating that the Home Office memo states that police forces should not get involved, does not make an appearance in any of Mr Afzal's published, writtten articles on the subject. The telling point, of course is the inclusion of the word 'allegedly' in the Politicalite headline. Who's alleging it? Why, Politicalite of course, for whom rumour and hearesay are a stock in trade.

 

[Lost Seasider]

Who's alleging it? Why, Politicalite of course, for whom rumour and hearesay are a stock in trade.

The allegation comes from Mr Afzal, you admit he made it on R4, Politicalite are simply repeating it, correctly, as you admit.

Also, the comment stating that the Home Office memo states that police forces should not get involved, does not make an appearance in any of Mr Afzal's published, writtten articles on the subject.

The implications of "child prostitute" and "informed choice" to engage in this behaviour" could not be clearer.

two police forces say they could not locate any such Home Office memo.

Police forces often have a hard time locating potentially embarrassing documents, I don't find it at all surprising that they might have difficulty locating this one.

It's entirely possible that a chief prosecutor is completely mistaken and doesn't know what he's talking about, but I'd like to see more convincing denials than "we can't find it".


Of course, this is potentially very damaging for Sir Keir, it overlaps with his time as head of the DPP, and whatever his personal involvement when you combine this with his position on trans issues it starts to look like he's more interested in pandering to minority groups than protecting the safety and welfare of women and girls, I can see why you'd like to minimize this story.

 

[EagleDay]

How have you jumped from prosecuting guidelines for the CPS and police to the school curriculum?

We're referring to grooming and it being swept under the carpet without any reprisals are we not, it has to be stopped no matter where it originates. And it isn't just the police that is guilty, how about Social Services? Those kids were let down by everyone, from top to bottom.

 

[Mexboroseasider]

We're referring to grooming and it being swept under the carpet without any reprisals are we not, it has to be stopped no matter where it originates. And it isn't just the police that is guilty, how about Social Services? Those kids were let down by everyone, from top to bottom.

Yes. But you jumped from that to supposed indoctrination in schools.

 

[Wizaard]

The allegation comes from Mr Afzal, you admit he made it on R4, Politicalite are simply repeating it, correctly, as you admit.




The implications of "child prostitute" and "informed choice" to engage in this behaviour" could not be clearer.




Police forces often have a hard time locating potentially embarrassing documents, I don't find it at all surprising that they might have difficulty locating this one.

It's entirely possible that a chief prosecutor is completely mistaken and doesn't know what he's talking about, but I'd like to see more convincing denials than "we can't find it".


Of course, this is potentially very damaging for Sir Keir, it overlaps with his time as head of the DPP, and whatever his personal involvement when you combine this with his position on trans issues it starts to look like he's more interested in pandering to minority groups than protecting the safety and welfare of women and girls, I can see why you'd like to minimize this story.

The issuing office would have copies. Surely the Home Office could provide the necessary documentation if it existed.

 

[TSSeasider]

FWIW I was working in partnership with Barnardo's back in the early 2000's in Stockton. They were run by an incredible woman Wendy Shepherd.

They were running a programme called "Sexual Exploitation of Children on the Streets" (SECOS) - they knew of dozens of children who were being repeatedly raped by gangs of predominantly Asian men; generally from Middlesbrough but networked across the North East and Yorkshire.

Her work was heroic, but it took about a decade for the police to fully understand what was going on was illegal and even now there hasn't been the same level of prosecutions which have taken place in other communities.

Given the emphasis of the government at the time was particularly focussed on community cohesion, it doesn't surprise me that it may have been a politicised issue.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

The allegation comes from Mr Afzal, you admit he made it on R4, Politicalite are simply repeating it, correctly, as you admit.




The implications of "child prostitute" and "informed choice" to engage in this behaviour" could not be clearer.




Police forces often have a hard time locating potentially embarrassing documents, I don't find it at all surprising that they might have difficulty locating this one.

It's entirely possible that a chief prosecutor is completely mistaken and doesn't know what he's talking about, but I'd like to see more convincing denials than "we can't find it".


Of course, this is potentially very damaging for Sir Keir, it overlaps with his time as head of the DPP, and whatever his personal involvement when you combine this with his position on trans issues it starts to look like he's more interested in pandering to minority groups than protecting the safety and welfare of women and girls, I can see why you'd like to minimize this story.

There's none so blind. The allegation of it being the "Brown Government" that forced police forces to not investigate is the Politicalite headline. Mr Afzal only mentioned the Home Office and, I repeat, he never states in his articles that there was an instruction to police forces.

You do go to the most marginal and extreme of publications to support your cause.

 

[Lost Seasider]

There's none so blind. The allegation of it being the "Brown Government" that forced police forces to not investigate is the Politicalite headline. Mr Afzal only mentioned the Home Office and, I repeat, he never states in his articles that there was an instruction to police forces.

You do go to the most marginal and extreme of publications to support your cause.

I'm only working off what I've read on this site, none of which you dispute BTW.

Nazir Afzal made the comment when he was interviewed on the Radio 4 PM programme on 19th October (2018). What he said was this: "back in 2008, the Home Office sent a circular to all police forces in the country stating: "as far as these young girls who are being exploited in towns and cities, we believe they have made an informed choice about their sexual behaviour and therefore it is not for police officers to get involved in." This was quoted correctly by Politicalite.


Edit:

The IBT article: https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/i-prosecuted-rochdale-child-grooming-gang-it-wasnt-about-race-1621370

The term "child prostitute" was used extensively to describe them and it should be noted both that the Home Office in a circular to police in 2008 used that term and spoke of girls making an "informed choice" to engage in this behaviour.

Once again, the implications of a circular from the Home Office, to the police, could not be clearer.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

I'm only working off what I've read on this site, none of which you dispute BTW.

Nazir Afzal made the comment when he was interviewed on the Radio 4 PM programme on 19th October (2018). What he said was this: "back in 2008, the Home Office sent a circular to all police forces in the country stating: "as far as these young girls who are being exploited in towns and cities, we believe they have made an informed choice about their sexual behaviour and therefore it is not for police officers to get involved in." This was quoted correctly by Politicalite.

But it was quoted under a banner headline, "GORDON Brown’s Labour Government allegedly urged Police Forces across the UK ‘not to investigate’ grooming gangs." So no, they weren't just reporting what he said. They were using it to push their own agenda. You know that too so don't come the cod.

 

[Lost Seasider]

But it was quoted under a banner headline, "GORDON Brown’s Labour Government allegedly urged Police Forces across the UK ‘not to investigate’ grooming gangs." So no, they weren't just reporting what he said. They were using it to push their own agenda. You know that too so don't come the cod.

I've not read the headline, the OP didn't post it, I am only working off what I've read on here although as headlines go, it does seem to be an accurate reflection of the facts as presented by Mr Afzal.

And to repeat, you don't appear to be disputing any of the facts.

 

[Tangerinenick]

Whole thing stunk. Social services were largely a disgrace - some brave individuals.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

I've not read the headline, the OP didn't post it, I am only working off what I've read on here although as headlines go, it does seem to be an accurate reflection of the facts as presented by Mr Afzal.

And to repeat, you don't appear to be disputing any of the facts.

Putting "allegedly" into a headline is not a statement of fact.

 

[glasshalffull]

If that email was sent it was totally inappropriate and also dangerous in it’s consequences. This ‘news item’ seems to be fairly dead across the media for now though so maybe there is just nothing in it?

 

[EagleDay]

Yes. But you jumped from that to supposed indoctrination in schools.

Grooming..................indoctrination.....................same thing. And I did imply the probable copycat actions that some may follow and have we the politicians or people in authority to prevent that from happening. It's okay to discuss what has happened in the past and point fingers, but what do we do to prevent a reoccurrence? My guess is it is still happening.

 

[Lost Seasider]

Putting "allegedly" into a headline is not a statement of fact.

It is a statement of fact that Mr Afzal has made the allegations, repeatedly.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

It is a statement of fact that Mr Afzal has made the allegations, repeatedly.

If you've nothing new to say, don't bother posting it.

 

[Lost Seasider]

If you've nothing new to say, don't bother posting it.

A suggestion you should take advantage of yourself.

 

[Mexboroseasider]

Grooming..................indoctrination.....................same thing. And I did imply the probable copycat actions that some may follow and have we the politicians or people in authority to prevent that from happening. It's okay to discuss what has happened in the past and point fingers, but what do we do to prevent a reoccurrence? My guess is it is still happening.

But you inferred that schools ie teachers were indoctrinating school kids into thinking grooming was ok?