Hartlepool bi election.

Curryman

Well-known member
Labour trailing the Conservatives in the polls. KS has put a candidate up who is pro European whilst Hartlepool is one of the most pro Brexit areas in England. Still time though, I suppose.
 
Absolutely hilarious 🤣🤣 if labour cannot win Hartlepool then they might as well pack it all in😁 just more evidence I suppose if indeed we needed it that conservatives are the party for the working class👍🏻🇬🇧
 
Latest poll - cons 49% lab 42%

General election - labour 37.7%
Cons 28%
Brexit party took 25%

Not difficult to work out why cons now leading
 
Absolutely hilarious 🤣🤣 if labour cannot win Hartlepool then they might as well pack it all in😁 just more evidence I suppose if indeed we needed it that conservatives are the party for the working class👍🏻🇬🇧
I'll bite, the ** conservatives a party for the working class 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 I suppose Jimmy Saville was a suitable candidate for a childminder too. 🙄
 
I’ve worked with a hell of a lot of lads from the north east And I will be surprised if Labour don’t do ok in the end, but it tells You a lot about the state of the Labour Party in 2021.
 
I live here and the whole thing is an absolute mess.

MP, Tees Valley Metro Mayor, Cleveland Police & Crime Commissioner, all out Council Elections aren't helping.

FWIW, The resigning MP, Mike Hill (Labour) was lovely, a helpful constituency MP who did a couple of things nationally which he should be proud of. He is also tangled up in some form of sexual misconduct issue which has enabled his downfall.

I'll fill in the details later, when I'm on a computer not a phone.

But yes, it's closer than its been for a very long time.
 
I’ve worked with a hell of a lot of lads from the north east And I will be surprised if Labour don’t do ok in the end, but it tells You a lot about the state of the Labour Party in 2021.
Balanced post Scara. However, on this occasion I would say that the resignation of Mike Hill may be the tipping point that gives Hartlepool to the Tories.
 
I despair at the downfall of this once proud party. I used to love the Labour party when they strived to listen to their traditional supporters and tried to make a real difference to peoples lives in particular those whom had less. Sadly they now have a dearth of quality mps such as John smith and the brilliant Frank Field, politicians whom deeply cared and had the intelligence to be able to adapt in a changing world. Time and again they now they just ignore the views of traditional supporters and they themselves are clearly a loser in this this. The op gives one very good example. Corbyn is a fine example, totally ignoring the concerns about anti-semitism in the party. When seats such as Blackpool South and Wigan are lost you are well and truly f-----. I hoped Starmer would be the answer yet one has to question this. Maybe the party will be lost for at least a generation and i find that incredibly sad.
 
So here we go; a long response.

Until as recently as the 2015 Hartlepool Borough Council was dominated by Labour, enough to form a working majority, although there has always been a bit of an independent streak (for example Stuart Drummond was elected as Mayor 3 times when originally H'angus the Monkey mascot).

The change started when Labour began to infight pretty badly, with a number of defections to Socialist Labour and others just becoming independent. This coincided with with the 2016 referendum, with 70% of the population voting to Leave the EU (as much a cry for change as anything else) and the revoke/remain shenanigans began to feed through locally.

From the referendum onwards this area (and the wider Tees Valley) have shifted further from Labour as they wouldn't/didn't/couldn't commit to honouring the leave vote.

All the elections saw an shift away from Labour; the EU elections returned Brexit Party MEP's, Tees Valley Mayor is Tory local authority areas moving to 'independent' and the Tories almost acting as king makers. The 2019 General Election in Hartlepool saw another slide in the Labour vote but it was split between the Brexit Party and the Tories and so Mike got in. The Labour party appeared to be unable or unwilling to listen to the referendum result and Jeremey Corbyn being friends with so many people of peace who are also terrorists; hence the red wall crumbling.

Locally, you've also got to add in the closure of our A&E (Labour), magistrates court (Labour) and custody suite (Labour) as well as failure to change the area for the better despite having a Labour MP for 60 years and you can see why people feel they have nothing to lose.

So where do we go from here?

Firstly the background mood music hasn't changed significantly. Labour appear to have been unable to accept that being patriotic doesn't make you racist. In a town where 98%+ of the population are white and who would say they aren't racist, BLM, Keir Starmer kneeling and all the identity politics play out awfully. But it's not only the national leaders, the CLP is an absolute mess and has had mass resignations due to the infighting and desire to play poverty porn.

The conservative TV Mayor has also delivered on what he said he would. He's bought an airport, done stuff with steel, secured Freeport status and the local Tory area's appear to have had more investment than non-Tory; Treasury North and other civil service jobs coming to Darlington for example. The Labour candidate, Jessie Joe Jacobs, is brilliant, what she's done in her past if fantastic BUT she's been campaigning to be the first woman Metro Mayor, which frustrates a lot of the electorate and I think it's a mistake (as I've told her). She didn't need to mention the obvious as she's miles better than that. She's also had virtually no support from Labour HQ and given how apparently successful Ben Houchen has been, she's got a mountain to climb. Personally, I don't think she will win, but if she could ever get a safe seat somewhere, she'd make a brilliant national politician.

The Police & Crime Commissioner (Labour) has been an absolute disaster, incompetent doesn't come close; overseeing the first police force in the country to require improvement in all areas and resigning after being reported, by the Chief Constable (the 6th in 7 years) to HMIC for allegedly using WhatsApp groups to ask to dig dirt on the Tory candidate. He denies wrong doing and only deleted the messages because the storage was full.

Add into the mix, that the Labour candidate Dr Paul Williams (who I know from way back) has been 'parachuted' in from a short list of one AFTER standing for P&CC after losing his seat in Stockton South in 2019 because of his position on Europe and essentially calling his constituents thick, and I think it's a catastrophic mistake. He's been talking about working in Hartlepool Hospital on the Covid Frontline, at Covid clinics and so on, but guess what; there is no Covid ward in Hartlepool and people know that because their family's are having to go to Stockton when they are ill. The reason why we have to go to Stockton, because when Labour were in government and ran the council, they agreed to the partial closure of the hospital. People are also suggesting that his jump from P&CC show's he now just wants to be a career politician and given he had the highest expenses of any MP when he was representing Stockton, jumping back on the gravy train is an easy accusation - it's not a good look. He's not good enough for Stockton, why would he be good enough for us?

That said, the Tory candidate is a farmers wife from North Yorkshire! I know the the local Tory who submitted his successful application, but withdrew it after people (including me) who know him well enough had conversations about the impact on his mental health. It would have caused him a whole load of mental illness and I asked him, after the year we've all had, is it that important? I think he made the right decision for himself, but not the Party. A local Tory candidate would have had the best chance ever to win this seat - it's less likely now.

We have loads of other candidates, including Reform, but I just can't see beyond the two main parties; depending on how the smaller parties split the vote, it could determine who get's in.

At a local level, there are are also all out elections, with so many fragmented groups, independents and so on; one whisper was Mike Hill MP was made to fall on his sword (that's not a euphemism) so that it would get the Labour vote out for MP, which might mean they'd vote Labour in all the elections; and given how divided the vote might be with the sheer volume of candidates, it's a decent tactic. I reckon we will see a councillor elected with 250 votes! And if they can mobilise the 'my dad, his dad and his dad have all voted Labour' there is a chance they could return a Labour council and MP. I just can't see it happening now, too many of the electorate are used to not voting Labour and the jump from Brexit Party to Conservatives, is far shorter than from Labour to Conservatives.

Lastly, the anti-Ox/AZ coming from the EU matters. The proxy war being fought out through the vaccination programme, the EU seemingly taking great delight at calling our vaccine dangerous etc does not help as it show's Brexit isn't done, it's only just begun, and if you want to see us thrive in a post Brexit world, who do you want in power - Starmer or Johnson?

Anyway, there's a long way to go and all of that could change very quickly and as it stands, I think it's probably too close to call.

Oh and before I forget, the socialist Northern Independent Party, hilariously didn't register the party with the Electoral Commission in time and have therefore had to withdraw. Kind of sums up what's wrong with the left in England at the moment.
 
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It doesn't matter which party are in power, they need a strong opposition to keep them on their toes and in check.

Margaret Thatcher had little opposition from Labour, Tony Blair was given a free hand by a very weak Tory party. Boris has most of his opposition from his own ranks.

Scotland should beware, as they end up with a Nationalist party with little or no opposition to speak of.

Without decent opposition, a large percentage of voters feel forgotten, or worse, which leads to strife and disillusionment amongst the ranks. In turn this shows itself as extremism and we all know the outcome of that.

Unfortunately, I can't for the life of me see anyone in the Labour ranks who could provide a spark in the opposition and go on to win a General Election by uniting the warring factions There is far too much in fighting amongst them.

I could be wrong, and time will tell, but it is going to take an almighty blunder, larger than those seen so far, to turn the present tide IMHO.
 
TSSeasider-enjoyed reading that it made a lot of sense to me. Deeply worrying though that what you describe.. It just seems to me the party i once adored neither have the insight or the capability of change. Maybe its time for a new labour party and Starmer along with the hard left can continue to steer this to the moon.
 
So here we go; a long response.

Until as recently as the 2015 Hartlepool Borough Council was dominated by Labour, enough to form a working majority, although there has always been a bit of an independent streak (for example Stuart Drummond was elected as Mayor 3 times when originally H'angus the Monkey mascot).

The change started when Labour began to infight pretty badly, with a number of defections to Socialist Labour and others just becoming independent. This coincided with with the 2016 referendum, with 70% of the population voting to Leave the EU (as much a cry for change as anything else) and the revoke/remain shenanigans began to feed through locally.

From the referendum onwards this area (and the wider Tees Valley) have shifted further from Labour as they wouldn't/didn't/couldn't commit to honouring the leave vote.

All the elections saw an shift away from Labour, including the EU elections returned Brexit Party MEP's, Tees Valley Mayor is Tory local authority areas moving to 'independent' and the Tories almost acting as king makers. The 2019 General Election in Hartlepool saw another slide in the Labour vote but it was split between the Brexit Party and the Tories and so Mike got in. The Labour party appeared to be unable or unwilling to listen to the referendum result and Jeremey Corbyn being friends with so many people of peace who are also terrorists; hence the red wall crumbling.

Locally, you've also got to add in the closure of our A&E (Labour), magistrates court (Labour) and custody suite (Labour) as well as failure to change the area for the better despite having a Labour MP for 60 years and you can see why people feel they have nothing to lose.

So where do we go from here?

Firstly the background mood music hasn't changed significantly. Labour appear to have been unable to accept that being patriotic doesn't make you racist. In a town where 98%+ of the population are white and who would say they aren't racist, BLM, Keir Starmer kneeling and all the identity politics play out awfully. But it's not only the national leaders, the CLP is an absolute mess and has had mass resignations due to the infighting and desire to play poverty porn.

The conservative TV Mayor has also delivered on what he said he would. He's bought an airport, done stuff with steel, secured Freeport status and the local Tory area's appear to have had more investment than non-Tory; Treasury North and other civil service jobs coming to Darlington for example. The Labour candidate, Jessie Joe Jacobs, is brilliant, what she's done in her past if fantastic BUT she's been campaigning to be the first woman Metro Mayor, which frustrates a lot of the electorate and I think it's a mistake (as I've told her). She didn't need to mention the obvious as she's miles better than that. She's also had virtually no support from Labour HQ and given how apparently successful Ben Houchen has been, she's got a mountain to climb. Personally, I don't think she will win, but if she could ever get a safe seat somewhere, she'd make a brilliant national politician.

The Police & Crime Commissioner (Labour) has been an absolute disaster, incompetent doesn't come close; overseeing the first police force in the country to require improvement in all areas and resigning after being reported, by the Chief Constable (the 6th in 7 years) to HMIC for allegedly using WhatsApp groups to ask to dig dirt on the Tory candidate. He denies wrong doing and only deleted the messages because the storage was full.

Add into the mix, that the Labour candidate Dr Paul Williams (who I know from way back) has been 'parachuted' in from a short list of one AFTER standing for P&CC after losing his seat in Stockton South in 2019 because of his position on Europe and essentially calling his constituents thick, and I think it's a catastrophic mistake. He's been talking about working in Hartlepool Hospital on the Covid Frontline, at Covid clinics and so on, but guess what; there is no Covid ward in Hartlepool and people know that because their family's are having to go to Stockton when they are ill. The reason why we have to go to Stockton, because when Labour were in government and ran the council, they agreed to the partial closure of the hospital. People are also suggesting that his jump from P&CC show's he now just wants to be a career politician and given he had the highest expenses of any MP when he was representing Stockton, jumping back on the gravy train is an easy accusation - it's not a good look. He's not good enough for Stockton, why would he be good enough for us?

That said, the Tory candidate is a farmers wife from North Yorkshire! I know the the local Tory who submitted his successful application, but withdrew it after people (including me) who know him well enough had conversations about the impact on his mental health. It would have caused him a whole load of mental illness and I asked him, after the year we've all had, is it that important? I think he made the right decision for himself, but not the Party. A local Tory candidate would have had the best chance ever to win this seat - it's less likely now.

We have loads of other candidates, including Reform, but I just can't see beyond the two main parties; depending on how the smaller parties split the vote, it could determine who get's in.

At a local level, there are are also all out elections, with so many fragmented groups, independents and so on; one whisper was Mike Hill MP was made to fall on his sword (that's not a euphemism) so that it would get the Labour vote out for MP, which might mean they'd vote Labour in all the elections; and given how divided the vote might be with the sheer volume of candidates, it's a decent tactic. I reckon we will see a councillor elected with 250 votes! And if they can mobilise the 'my dad, his dad and his dad have all voted Labour' there is a chance they could return a Labour council and MP. I just can't see it happening now, too many of the electorate are used to not voting Labour and the jump from Brexit Party to Conservatives, is far shorter than from Labour to Conservatives.

Lastly, the anti-Ox/AZ coming from the EU matters. The proxy war being fought out through the vaccination programme, the EU seemingly taking great delight at calling our vaccine dangerous etc does not help as it show's Brexit isn't done, it's only just begun, and if you want to see us thrive in a post Brexit world, who do you want in power - Starmer or Johnson?

Anyway, there's a long way to go and all of that could change very quickly and as it stands, I think it's probably too close to call.

Oh and before I forget, the socialist Northern Independent Party, hilariously didn't register the party with the Electoral Commission in time and have therefore had to withdraw. Kind of sums up what's wrong with the left in England at the moment.
Excellent post and well written
Giving the local viewpoint, many conservatives also realise having a lack of a viable alternative is a weakness not a strength in politics
 
So here we go; a long response.

Until as recently as the 2015 Hartlepool Borough Council was dominated by Labour, enough to form a working majority, although there has always been a bit of an independent streak (for example Stuart Drummond was elected as Mayor 3 times when originally H'angus the Monkey mascot).

The change started when Labour began to infight pretty badly, with a number of defections to Socialist Labour and others just becoming independent. This coincided with with the 2016 referendum, with 70% of the population voting to Leave the EU (as much a cry for change as anything else) and the revoke/remain shenanigans began to feed through locally.

From the referendum onwards this area (and the wider Tees Valley) have shifted further from Labour as they wouldn't/didn't/couldn't commit to honouring the leave vote.

All the elections saw an shift away from Labour, including the EU elections returned Brexit Party MEP's, Tees Valley Mayor is Tory local authority areas moving to 'independent' and the Tories almost acting as king makers. The 2019 General Election in Hartlepool saw another slide in the Labour vote but it was split between the Brexit Party and the Tories and so Mike got in. The Labour party appeared to be unable or unwilling to listen to the referendum result and Jeremey Corbyn being friends with so many people of peace who are also terrorists; hence the red wall crumbling.

Locally, you've also got to add in the closure of our A&E (Labour), magistrates court (Labour) and custody suite (Labour) as well as failure to change the area for the better despite having a Labour MP for 60 years and you can see why people feel they have nothing to lose.

So where do we go from here?

Firstly the background mood music hasn't changed significantly. Labour appear to have been unable to accept that being patriotic doesn't make you racist. In a town where 98%+ of the population are white and who would say they aren't racist, BLM, Keir Starmer kneeling and all the identity politics play out awfully. But it's not only the national leaders, the CLP is an absolute mess and has had mass resignations due to the infighting and desire to play poverty porn.

The conservative TV Mayor has also delivered on what he said he would. He's bought an airport, done stuff with steel, secured Freeport status and the local Tory area's appear to have had more investment than non-Tory; Treasury North and other civil service jobs coming to Darlington for example. The Labour candidate, Jessie Joe Jacobs, is brilliant, what she's done in her past if fantastic BUT she's been campaigning to be the first woman Metro Mayor, which frustrates a lot of the electorate and I think it's a mistake (as I've told her). She didn't need to mention the obvious as she's miles better than that. She's also had virtually no support from Labour HQ and given how apparently successful Ben Houchen has been, she's got a mountain to climb. Personally, I don't think she will win, but if she could ever get a safe seat somewhere, she'd make a brilliant national politician.

The Police & Crime Commissioner (Labour) has been an absolute disaster, incompetent doesn't come close; overseeing the first police force in the country to require improvement in all areas and resigning after being reported, by the Chief Constable (the 6th in 7 years) to HMIC for allegedly using WhatsApp groups to ask to dig dirt on the Tory candidate. He denies wrong doing and only deleted the messages because the storage was full.

Add into the mix, that the Labour candidate Dr Paul Williams (who I know from way back) has been 'parachuted' in from a short list of one AFTER standing for P&CC after losing his seat in Stockton South in 2019 because of his position on Europe and essentially calling his constituents thick, and I think it's a catastrophic mistake. He's been talking about working in Hartlepool Hospital on the Covid Frontline, at Covid clinics and so on, but guess what; there is no Covid ward in Hartlepool and people know that because their family's are having to go to Stockton when they are ill. The reason why we have to go to Stockton, because when Labour were in government and ran the council, they agreed to the partial closure of the hospital. People are also suggesting that his jump from P&CC show's he now just wants to be a career politician and given he had the highest expenses of any MP when he was representing Stockton, jumping back on the gravy train is an easy accusation - it's not a good look. He's not good enough for Stockton, why would he be good enough for us?

That said, the Tory candidate is a farmers wife from North Yorkshire! I know the the local Tory who submitted his successful application, but withdrew it after people (including me) who know him well enough had conversations about the impact on his mental health. It would have caused him a whole load of mental illness and I asked him, after the year we've all had, is it that important? I think he made the right decision for himself, but not the Party. A local Tory candidate would have had the best chance ever to win this seat - it's less likely now.

We have loads of other candidates, including Reform, but I just can't see beyond the two main parties; depending on how the smaller parties split the vote, it could determine who get's in.

At a local level, there are are also all out elections, with so many fragmented groups, independents and so on; one whisper was Mike Hill MP was made to fall on his sword (that's not a euphemism) so that it would get the Labour vote out for MP, which might mean they'd vote Labour in all the elections; and given how divided the vote might be with the sheer volume of candidates, it's a decent tactic. I reckon we will see a councillor elected with 250 votes! And if they can mobilise the 'my dad, his dad and his dad have all voted Labour' there is a chance they could return a Labour council and MP. I just can't see it happening now, too many of the electorate are used to not voting Labour and the jump from Brexit Party to Conservatives, is far shorter than from Labour to Conservatives.

Lastly, the anti-Ox/AZ coming from the EU matters. The proxy war being fought out through the vaccination programme, the EU seemingly taking great delight at calling our vaccine dangerous etc does not help as it show's Brexit isn't done, it's only just begun, and if you want to see us thrive in a post Brexit world, who do you want in power - Starmer or Johnson?

Anyway, there's a long way to go and all of that could change very quickly and as it stands, I think it's probably too close to call.

Oh and before I forget, the socialist Northern Independent Party, hilariously didn't register the party with the Electoral Commission in time and have therefore had to withdraw. Kind of sums up what's wrong with the left in England at the moment.
Your obviously very well informed on the North East and Labour. Have you by any chance read Paul Emburys book Despised ? I found him to be very knowledgable on all things Labour and spoke an enormous amount of sense on the current failings of the Labour Party.
 
Due to my job I mix with politicians from all sorts of political backgrounds at local, regional and national level - they all get to hear the same message as the issues are the same irrespective of who I'm speaking to. I think because of that, and I because I avoid the student politics nonsense that some get involved in, I'm respected for what I say and do; doesn't mean they always act on what I say, but they generally listen, which is a start.

My feeling is that Labour are currently going through a prolonged period of introspection to the point of irrelevance to large numbers of the electorate. The purists v the pragmatists if you will. What I really don't understand is that this isn't a theoretical exercise, it's about real lives; at the moment some of the grief Starmer gets is worse from his own party than the opposition. I can't understand why they would throw away the chance to do some good. I prefer the art of the possible over the art of the perfect; but too many don't appear to see it like that.

It gives the Tories a free hit; they can share the internal opposition to Starmer and so don't even need to try; if he's not good enough for swathes of his own Party, why would he be good enough for you is all they have to say. It means that the essentially the opposition are failing to hold the government to account in a load of ways as they are more focussed on stopping themselves being anti-Semitic or Zionist apologists etc. It's bonkers on a monumental scale.

Local politicians are generally well meaning, there's the odd egotist, but on the whole they want to do good things for local people; although none of them appear to really understand the scale of what needs to change; I've said on here before, we are an educational generation behind the GB average; it's a long way back from there and we don't have the leaders who can share a vision which is both ambitious but believable.

I always point out though, we get what we deserve as I, and people like me, don't put ourselves in the positions to change any of it by standing for an elected position.
 
The Hartlepool Labour Party has been the laughing stock for 30 years, like many Constituency Labour Parties it's at war with itself with inept leadership. The candidate is excellent but imposed, causing a few issues locally. Labour are particularly bad in Hartlepool. No wonder people have lost faith in them.
 
Wonder what became of Simon Blackburn ? Isn't he technically still the leader of Blackpool Council but not heard from him for nigh on two years now. Its like he's been held in a black site or something
 
Wonder what became of Simon Blackburn ? Isn't he technically still the leader of Blackpool Council but not heard from him for nigh on two years now. Its like he's been held in a black site or something
No he is still suspended but no one from the Party is questioning it. They've started doing Zoom meetings again and he's a no show on that.
 
Is he still on the payroll? A political Nuttall
I guess so although he has/had a longstanding relationship with another councillor in Waltham Forest (London)

Someone from here should put him up whilst he adapts to life in the South East-someone who understands the meaning of community and the importance of sharing.
 
Absolutely hilarious 🤣🤣 if labour cannot win Hartlepool then they might as well pack it all in😁 just more evidence I suppose if indeed we needed it that conservatives are the party for the working class👍🏻🇬🇧
Well if you want no democracy, a lying PM, and an x PM who looks after his friends (for a price), almost no moderate or left of centre press - keep voting for myopic Toryism and see how that improves Hartlepool (and has over the last ten years, or the next 100) - I guess the Tories are the only choice now
 
Well if you want no democracy, a lying PM, and an x PM who looks after his friends (for a price), almost no moderate or left of centre press - keep voting for myopic Toryism and see how that improves Hartlepool (and has over the last ten years, or the next 100) - I guess the Tories are the only choice now

It will be unhealthy for England to follow Scotland in becoming a single political party country, but it seems to be heading that way. If the voters don't trust the opposition parties they'll become meaningless. Labour seems as far away from government at the moment as I can ever remember an opposition party being.
 
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