Honour (O/T)

Raging_Bull

Well-known member
Anybody watch the two part series that concluded last night on ITV about Banaz Mahmod who was murdered by her own family?

What kind of culture thinks its correct to murder your own daughter because she wants to choose who to fall in love with and marry a person of her own choice, and if she does she is somehow bringing shame on the family name?

The father, who had two beautiful daughters who he should be cherishing and worshipping until his dying day actually goes and pays money to brothers and cousins to not only slaughter his precious daughter, but to rape and abuse her in her final moments.

Five times that girl went to the police and pleaded for them to help her, as she told them her days were numbered and if they didn't help her family would kill her, her pleas and warnings fell on deaf ears.

I hope the police involved have some sort of conscience because that poor girls blood is very much on their hands, but hats off to DCI Caroline Goode who lead the investigation which lead to life sentences to five family members who raped and murdered the poor girl, they should have hanged the f@cking lot of them.

What's also disturbing is the claim that this is not uncommon and at least one "honour" killing takes place every month in the UK, it needs eradicating immediately and these girls need the full force of the law to help protect them.

Disturbing.
 
I posted about this on the other board, wasn’t sure to class it as political or not.
Agree with everything you say, it’s a harrowing story.
The documentary that followed was very upsetting, particularly the footage of her initial interview, she looked so vulnerable and weak.
Up to 50 people helped the perpetrators by giving false statements to the Police, they should all be banged up too.
Special mention should go to her sister, who I would say was heroically brave to do her bit, and also Diana (?), the powerhouse behind the Kurdish Women’s Rights organisation, that campaigns to highlight these horrific stories.
 
Anybody watch the two part series that concluded last night on ITV about Banaz Mahmod who was murdered by her own family?

What kind of culture thinks its correct to murder your own daughter because she wants to choose who to fall in love with and marry a person of her own choice, and if she does she is somehow bringing shame on the family name?

The father, who had two beautiful daughters who he should be cherishing and worshipping until his dying day actually goes and pays money to brothers and cousins to not only slaughter his precious daughter, but to rape and abuse her in her final moments.

Five times that girl went to the police and pleaded for them to help her, as she told them her days were numbered and if they didn't help her family would kill her, her pleas and warnings fell on deaf ears.

I hope the police involved have some sort of conscience because that poor girls blood is very much on their hands, but hats off to DCI Caroline Goode who lead the investigation which lead to life sentences to five family members who raped and murdered the poor girl, they should have hanged the f@cking lot of them.

What's also disturbing is the claim that this is not uncommon and at least one "honour" killing takes place every month in the UK, it needs eradicating immediately and these girls need the full force of the law to help protect them.

Disturbing.
It’s utterly despicable on every level. That girl deserved so much more from her family and society.
As I said in Johnno’s thread I hope the parents rot in hell for what they have done and RIP lovely precious girl.
 
I think to some extent the authorities are between a rock and a garden place. They are so pussy whipped into respecting so called cultural differences, they are terrified to interfere in Asian family disputes for fear of being lambasted by left wing media. I agree its completely abhorrent but what do we do?
 
I think to some extent the authorities are between a rock and a garden place. They are so pussy whipped into respecting so called cultural differences, they are terrified to interfere in Asian family disputes for fear of being lambasted by left wing media. I agree its completely abhorrent but what do we do?
I'll tell you what we can do, we can start by supporting any female who feels threatened and making the family know in no uncertain terms that the police are on their case and they are very much being monitored and anybody who is involved in any way shape or form will be prosecuted and the full weight of the law will come down on them like a ton of bricks, they can spend the next few years thinking about their family "honour" sat in a prison cell rotting away. Any girl who comes to the police who feels her life is in extreme danger should be relocated to a safe place with the protection of CCTV and a panic button. If that poor girl was given protection she'd still be alive today.
 
One of the problems I see is that we neither understand fully or appreciate the differences in our culture to theirs. One of my daughter's ex husband's family works in the field of female emancipation in the Asian community, and four years ago had to be rehoused on a safe location due to threats to her, her partner and acts of vandelism on her car and house. No one, of course, carried out or knew who had carried out the threats or vandalism.

These people have not all come here recently, but are second and thirds generation who have been taught the 'ways' of the old country to which they still have some form of link. Much the same as the British in the 19th century.
 
One of the problems with today’s society is that everyone’s offended by something due to the madness of political correctness that the woke Left have hijacked. I’m not surprised the police didn’t do anything. It’s absolutely prehistoric behaviour that has no place in today’s society.
 
Well it is too much of a knee jerk Dave, in reality we should have no problem in taking in our fair share of refugees as long as they are genuine refugees and not illegals, but they should also realise we are not a free ticket for them to abuse the benefit system all their lives, they need to contribute to the economy by working and paying their taxes like everyone else. They also have to realise that their culture will be respected, but not to a point where rape, under age sex and murder is tolerated and they will be severely punished and then deported if they ignore our laws.
 
This is a truly awful thing to have happened. What were the police thinking in denying her their protection? How many young women, forced into arranged marriages, go to the police for help? Are there so many that the police automatically think they are crying wolf and do not take them seriously? Is police overwork a factor that the issue is low on their priorities? Are the police inhibited by cultural sensitivities or by prejudices? Whatever the underlying attitudes, as with the grooming gangs, the police look very bad here, incompetent even. Even one murder is one too many and, to prevent that, all cries for help need to be taken seriously.
 
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Excellent o/p and excellent programme that highlights a genuine problem in our society.

I guess it's depressingly predictable that the AVFTT leftie luvvie brigade are swerving this topic. They do tend to avoid inconvenient truths.

Although it's surprising they haven't been on screaming racism 😮
 
I'll tell you what we can do, we can start by supporting any female who feels threatened and making the family know in no uncertain terms that the police are on their case and they are very much being monitored and anybody who is involved in any way shape or form will be prosecuted and the full weight of the law will come down on them like a ton of bricks, they can spend the next few years thinking about their family "honour" sat in a prison cell rotting away. Any girl who comes to the police who feels her life is in extreme danger should be relocated to a safe place with the protection of CCTV and a panic button. If that poor girl was given protection she'd still be alive today.
👏👏👏👏
 
It’s reassuring to see the genuine passion that exists on this thread in support of how women, particularly this girl, are treated in some other cultures.
It’s abhorrent, barbaric and despicable and we need to react now, as a society, morally and legally.
 
Watching the drama, it seemed that this type of murder was quite new to the Police, although I think the first known ‘honour killing’ ( a shit phrase if ever their was one ) had happened 3 years earlier in Cheshire (?) (Shamelia ?).
Banaz was certainly failed by the Police, and the drama pulled no punches about that.
The documentary afterwards was even more scathing, not least from the female detective who ran the case. You could see how angry and upset she still was about the cock-ups that led to Banaz’s death.
That copper deserved all the awards she got btw, she wouldn’t stop till she’d got them all.

Oh, and btw JCN - I’m a lefty, and I started the corresponding thread on the politics board. Please let’s not turn this into a party political thing.
 
Watching the drama, it seemed that this type of murder was quite new to the Police, although I think the first known ‘honour killing’ ( a shit phrase if ever their was one ) had happened 3 years earlier in Cheshire (?) (Shamelia ?).
Banaz was certainly failed by the Police, and the drama pulled no punches about that.
The documentary afterwards was even more scathing, not least from the female detective who ran the case. You could see how angry and upset she still was about the cock-ups that led to Banaz’s death.
That copper deserved all the awards she got btw, she wouldn’t stop till she’d got them all.

Oh, and btw JCN - I’m a lefty, and I started the corresponding thread on the politics board. Please let’s not turn this into a party political thing.
Fair comment and I agree with your points. It wasn't really a party political point - more a (possibly cheap 🤔) dig at some on here who are very quick to call out racism but avoid inconvenient truths that don't suit their agendas.
 
Excellent o/p and excellent programme that highlights a genuine problem in our society.

I guess it's depressingly predictable that the AVFTT leftie luvvie brigade are swerving this topic. They do tend to avoid inconvenient truths.

Although it's surprising they haven't been on screaming racism 😮
Excellent O/P. The irony is that you wouldn't have allowed her and her family into the country in the first place, allowing her family to murder with impunity.
 
Some of these people come here with their cap in their hand begging for help and we house them and give them all the medical and welfare benefits that are just a dream in their homelands.

How do they repay us?

By totally disrespecting our culture and laws and thinking that their perverse ideology is acceptable and they will carry on with it regardless and they will continue to defy the law of the land by silencing and intimidating any witnesses with violence.

Well our law enforcement should leave no stone unturned in ensuring that these poor girls get to live in and enjoy a land that promotes equality, fairness and freedom, and any misogyny will be treated exactly the same way racism is, and that it is unacceptable and will punished in a court of law every single time.
 
JCN - A girl raped and murdered and you decide to use it as an opportunity to make a ‘cheap dig’

well done 👍
 
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Awfully sad.
Shafilea Ahmed

I think it’s ok to put this out there now as so much time has passed.

My parents home at the time overlooked the site on the banks of the river Kent where this poor girl’s body was found.
The police were absolutely convinced from the very outset that they knew what they were dealing with. But they faced multiple members of that family and wider community closing ranks. Evidence was what was needed not speculation. I can say that the police installed covert surveillance cameras on my parents property so that they could monitor any unusual activity near the site in the months and years that followed. They eventually got what they needed.
There are fundamental things wrong with a society which does not speak out about evil in its midst. The same goes for grooming gangs, female genital mutilation and violence against gay members of that community. We are talking about intolerable behaviours being sustained in second and third generation immigrant communities. The longer it stays hidden the more victims suffer.
 
Yes, a terrible story and a shocking culture. The peeople that support or condone these practices should have no right to live in the UK and the perpetrators should never be released from prison
 
What got to me was the blind faith shown by girls mother that the father driven by fear, hatred and hypocrisy was right to give a kill order on their own flesh and blood.
Left me cold.
 
One of the problems I see is that we neither understand fully or appreciate the differences in our culture to theirs. One of my daughter's ex husband's family works in the field of female emancipation in the Asian community, and four years ago had to be rehoused on a safe location due to threats to her, her partner and acts of vandelism on her car and house. No one, of course, carried out or knew who had carried out the threats or vandalism.

These people have not all come here recently, but are second and thirds generation who have been taught the 'ways' of the old country to which they still have some form of link. Much the same as the British in the 19th century.

That is the biggest issue imho. Most non muslims in the UK and probably Worldwide have very little idea of how radically different our beliefs & thought process can be.
Unless you know people that have been directly involved, most non muslims will simply not get a true insight.
Many tend to have an incredibly restrictive archaic view of things by modern western standards of thinking. Some widely held beliefs tbh are absolutely frightening & brushed under the carpet as 'cultural differences'.
Thats not to say most are a threat or going to kill. Its just a largely closed community that often wants to self govern.

Such restrictions unfortunately result in an especially hard time for females.

Very few 'step out of line' or don't do what they are told by male family members as they are only too aware unfortunately of what the consequences may be.
This is certainly not all btw & that should definitely be noted! It is unfortunately though far more prevalent than should be allowed in a modern society & a far bigger issue than most would care or want to admit.

TBH in someways they are victims of an almost cult like belief system instilled from an early age. This could actually be levied at most if not all religon.
The others just tend to offer in the main more freedom and an easy way out if you want it.
 
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The Islamic faith and culture has not yet had its period of Enlightenment when science and technology undermined some of the most autocratic and superstitious attitudes of the western Christian church hierarchy in the 17th and 18thC. To that end, many Muslim communities totally follow the teachings of the mosque, which are underpinned by the patriarchal control inherited from their rural roots through generations.

Their Madrasa religious schooling methods, which educate only boys, reinforce this. As Aristotle is thought to have said “Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.” (Later attributed to Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuits). Religious schools of all faiths have much underlying responsibility for intolerance, in my opinion.
 
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The Islamic faith and culture has not yet had its period of Enlightenment when science and technology undermined some of the most autocratic and superstitious attitudes of the western Christian church hierarchy in the 17th and 18thC. To that end, many Muslim communities totally follow the teachings of the mosque, which are underpinned by the patriarchal control inherited from their rural roots through generations.

Their Madrasa religious schooling methods, which educate only boys, reinforce this. As Aristotle is thought to have said “Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.” (Later attributed to Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuits). Religious schools of all faiths have much underlying responsibility for intolerance, in my opinion.
Will it ever have its period of 'enlightenment'
How long must the rest wait for it to catch up?
What can be done to hurry it along?
🤣
Truth is there is no guarantee it ever will.
It could even be argued over the last 50 years or so it has gone backwards?

As for Religous schools, Yes I think there is something to be said for that. Caveat is most Muslims in the UK do not go to Islamic Schools.
I also know plenty that have been to C of E or Catholic School certainly recently and it hasnt had that much impact at all tbf. Very few are practicing Christians. Some dont believe in God.
 
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Some of these people come here with their cap in their hand begging for help and we house them and give them all the medical and welfare benefits that are just a dream in their homelands.

How do they repay us?

By totally disrespecting our culture and laws and thinking that their perverse ideology is acceptable and they will carry on with it regardless and they will continue to defy the law of the land by silencing and intimidating any witnesses with violence.

Well our law enforcement should leave no stone unturned in ensuring that these poor girls get to live in and enjoy a land that promotes equality, fairness and freedom, and any misogyny will be treated exactly the same way racism is, and that it is unacceptable and will punished in a court of law every single time.
Just watching The Searchers starring John Wayne. Natalie Wood abducted by Comanches so John Wayne tries to shoot her for 'mixing with an Injun'.

Just who's culture?
 
I was part of an investigation team on an horrendous multiple rape case. The victims were Sikh sisters who had been repeatedly raped and sexually assaulted when they were little girls and he was doing it again to another young girl member of the family.

we had to re-house the sisters and give them protection because the family and the Sikh community closed ranks and wanted to do them harm. Their mother was complicit and knew what was going on.

It was a real complicated case and I was one of the 2 interviewers of the father. He pretended he couldn't speak english so we had to get a Sikh interpreter for him. He completely denied any of the allegations and the Sikh interpreter told me he had never met anyone as cruel and disgusting as this man. The girls brothers wanted to kill the girls.

Thankfully he got 17 years and he was pretty old and in ill health, so hopefully he died in prison. Those girls were super brave to come forward. This was in 2004ish.
 
I was part of an investigation team on an horrendous multiple rape case. The victims were Sikh sisters who had been repeatedly raped and sexually assaulted when they were little girls and he was doing it again to another young girl member of the family.

we had to re-house the sisters and give them protection because the family and the Sikh community closed ranks and wanted to do them harm. Their mother was complicit and knew what was going on.

It was a real complicated case and I was one of the 2 interviewers of the father. He pretended he couldn't speak english so we had to get a Sikh interpreter for him. He completely denied any of the allegations and the Sikh interpreter told me he had never met anyone as cruel and disgusting as this man. The girls brothers wanted to kill the girls.

Thankfully he got 17 years and he was pretty old and in ill health, so hopefully he died in prison. Those girls were super brave to come forward. This was in 2004ish.
I was going to say, it’s not just the Muslim community where such views prevail.

You’ve mentioned Sikhs. If you want to talk about patriarchy and everything that brings with it, you could also mention Jehovah’s witnesses, The Plymouth Bretheren, Mormons, Hasidic Jews, certain Catholic sects, etc. etc.

Basically any closed community that doesn’t welcome investigation from the outside.
 
JCN - A girl raped and murdered and you decide to use it as an opportunity to make a ‘cheap dig’

well done 👍
Possibly not my finest moment I agree but I note that you avoid the key point and fail to condemn the way the way this community closed ranks to try and stop the Police getting to the truth.
 
What about the current murder/rape etc on the 2 Asian women in East Lancs?
I wouldn't mind betting that it's a similar type of act.
Two men arrested.
 
I was going to say, it’s not just the Muslim community where such views prevail.

You’ve mentioned Sikhs. If you want to talk about patriarchy and everything that brings with it, you could also mention Jehovah’s witnesses, The Plymouth Bretheren, Mormons, Hasidic Jews, certain Catholic sects, etc. etc.

Basically any closed community that doesn’t welcome investigation from the outside.
Very Good point Mex it is certainly not just a Muslim problem 👍 . However it has to be said it certainly appears more prevalent in the Muslim community in the UK. Of course others may be involved in 'honour' style murders but it is largely a far bigger issue in the Muslim community. Perhaps its because we have a larger Muslim population that the others that you mentioned?
Pointing out others commit bad deeds is absolutely100% fine but if its simply done to deflect the spotlight away from the main perps for 'pc' etiquette reasons well frankly its rather disingenuous.
 
From homicide in England and Wales 2019 report

"Female victims (aged 16 years and over) were more likely to be killed by a partner / ex-partner (38%, 80 homicides), while male victims were more likely to be killed by a friend or acquittance (27%, 105 homicides)." It doesn't matter what community you're from, women are more likely to be killed by a partner than anyone else.

Not good whichever you look at it.
 
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