Incident at Manchester Airport

Some very clear ideological bias on this thread. Could be left or right - both the same. Both use a race driven agenda in order to support their perspective. Sad to see really. Phil is quite correct is pointing out the glaringly obvious agenda. Starmer correctly refusing to fully comment until all the facts were known.
 
I've said all along that anyone who hits a copper should be arrested and charged. It doesn't excuse kicking someone one the floor.

Randomly shooting people in the head. FFS.

You've had plenty to say about GMP in the past at football. Should they be shooting fans in the head now?
 
Lala said:
Context didn’t matter apparently 😳
The amount of pummelling this copper took I’m surprised he was still standing, not disorientated or even able to make any sound decision. His brain took a walloping too and it was really credit to him the situation was resolved at all.
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Yes I forgot to mention in my summary about him being attacked from the guy in blue from behind multiple times, that he had also just been punched hard by the other guy many times before that too.

He showed real heart, strength and bravery to be able to be still up and able to gain control of the situation. He was though likely dazed, definitely hurt and will have been pumped up in what basically could have been a life or death struggle.
 
I do not mean this as any discredit to the two brave WPC's who both acted with great courage, but if three burly male officers had attended the scene, it possibly wouldn't have got to this.

The actions of those two, cowardly Asian thugs is the reason this is front page news.

And I will add to my earlier comment that the officers all deserve bravery medals.
 
The stamp to the head was still potentially lethal though, whatever the circumstances. I don’t think the IOPC will shy away from considering that, though they will take plenty of mitigation into account.

They have all the video including the breaks between, which we have not seen, so have a very accurate timeline.
 
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Just to add, there’s absolutely no doubt that what these guys did to the police was disgusting and they deserve full punishment in accordance with the law. However, that still does not excuse what this officer did. Presumably you want the police stamping on and potentially killing people they have already incapacitated?
 
EdgeleyTangerine said:
I’m a scumbag because I don’t want the police to take the law into their own hands? You’re an idiot.
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I think you are overlooking the possible impact of the punches he’d taken. His judgement will have been impacted and it’s highly likely he did not know the guy had been tasered. I’d imagine that medical opinion will be advanced on this basis, should he go to trial.

In the cold light of day he will have regretted his actions. I don’t for a moment believe he consciously took the law into his own hands. That won’t save his career.

I doubt there would be any regret from the lads in question. No normal minded person attacks anyone, let alone police officers, in that manner. In the States and elsewhere they may have been shot dead.

Irrespective of race or religion, people in this country need to be made aware that the Police will take firm and affective action to deal with mobs/riots/violence. It happens at football, so why should other situations be different. It’s rightly seen as acceptable when Police deal firmly with football hooligans. It needs to be accepted in all similar situations. In Leeds the other week they backed off, which is just not acceptable. It’s a far cry from how the Police dealt with inner city riots and the miners.
 
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I must say that LALA and Phil is a surprise AVFTT relationship.

Only joking lads and lasses, I won't be staying on here all day and I'm going to go for a walk before going out.

I hope everybody has a great Sunday.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
I think you are overlooking the possible impact of the punches he’d taken. His judgement will have been impacted and it’s highly likely he did not know the guy had been tasered. I’d imagine that medical opinion will be advanced on this basis, should he go to trial.

In the cold light of day he will have regretted his actions. I don’t for a moment believe he consciously took the law into his own hands. That won’t save his career.

I doubt there would be any regret from the lads in question. No normal minded person attacks anyone, let alone police officers, in that manner. In the States and elsewhere they may have been shot dead.

Irrespective of race or religion, people in this country need to be made aware that the Police will take firm and affective action to deal with mobs/riots/violence. It happens at football, so why should other situations be different. It’s rightly seen as acceptable when Police deal firmly with football hooligans. It needs to be accepted in all similar situations. In Leeds the other week they backed off, which is just not acceptable. It’s a far cry from how the Police dealt with inner city riots and the miners.
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Kicking someone in the face and stamping on their head isn’t firm and affective. It’s violent and dangerous and, in this officers case, potentially criminal.

If a football fan was the victim of this officers actions then those on here commending the officer would have some very different views…
 
EdgeleyTangerine said:
Kicking someone in the face and stamping on their head isn’t form and affective. It’s violent and dangerous and, in this officers case, potentially criminal.

If a football fan was the victim of this officers actions then those on here commending the officer would have some very different views…
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You overlooked the first point I made about his judgement being impacted by the punches. If you were hit about the head repeatedly, you would not be thinking clearly. He could possibly have been concussed.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
You overlooked the first point I made about his judgement being impacted by the punches. If you were hit about the head repeatedly, you would not be thinking clearly. He could possibly have been concussed.
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The other officers punched somehow managed to avoid kicking and stamping so that’s a weak defence at best.
 
EdgeleyTangerine said:
I’m not deliberately ignoring them at all just think it’s a weak argument.
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How many times have you been attacked and repeatedly and violently punched in the head?

You’ve see the impact of punches on boxers and sadly members of the public dying from one punch. The brain is significantly impacted and cognitive abilities are reduced. It’s not a weak argument.
 
EdgeleyTangerine said:
I’m not deliberately ignoring them at all just think it’s a weak argument.
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You and I probably haven't been violently attacked from behind, by two savage thugs and rabbit punched numerous times.

Who's to say the PC didn't think he was in a life or death scenario when he kicked the scumbag, ensuring he wouldn't continue his assault?
 
It would also be interesting to hear the details of the altercations they were involved in earlier. One on their flight and one involving other members of the public in the airport. Appear to be very nasty individuals looking for trouble. Certainly puts the police action in context. Why haven't the two individuals been charged yet?
Their lawyer should certainly be struck off for some of his statements, including encouraging a mob to march on the police. Unfortunately, lawyers only tend to get struck off if they steal money from their clients.
 
Just seen the clip again on Sky News.

The assailant in dark clothing lands 8-9 blows on the PC followed by another 3-4 from the one in dark blue..

All blows from behind.
 
Can we also make the point that the chap in blue has been doing a whistle stop tour of hospitals to tell us he was the victim.

He knew exactly what he’d done but he still wanted to be the victim. His behaviour led to it all.

Classic case of play stupid games win stupid prizes.
 
bfcpete said:
Their lawyer should certainly be struck off for some of his statements, including encouraging a mob to march on the police. Unfortunately, lawyers only tend to get struck off if they steal money from their clients.
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He is already under investigation by the Solicitors Regulation Authority for allegedly making malicious accusations of racism against a teacher.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
How many times have you been attacked and repeatedly and violently punched in the head?

You’ve see the impact of punches on boxers and sadly members of the public dying from one punch. The brain is significantly impacted and cognitive abilities are reduced. It’s not a weak argument.
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It’s a weak argument based on the other officers who were punched but didn’t have a violent outburst.
 
Satriale's Pork Store said:
You and I probably haven't been violently attacked from behind, by two savage thugs and rabbit punched numerous times.

Who's to say the PC didn't think he was in a life or death scenario when he kicked the scumbag, ensuring he wouldn't continue his assault?
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How can you be in a life and death situation from someone face down on the ground?
 
The end of that video seems to coincide with the start of the original video that misled so many people.

The copper in question has been repeatedly punched in the head by the first assailant, (shown only to be sat down in the original clip) then jumped from behind by the 2nd maniac again repeatedly punched and grabbed from behind, the 2nd maniac is then thankfully tasered.

Is it 1 or 2 seconds later where the original film starts?

His actions in the original film seem wholly appropriate in that context.
 
Foolweary said:
The end of that video seems to coincide with the start of the original video that misled so many people.

Is it 1 or 2 seconds later where the 2nd film starts?
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Yes, watching carefully, I think the CCTV video ends with the kick just impacting his head. So all occurs in a matter of a few seconds.
 
bfcpete said:
It would also be interesting to hear the details of the altercations they were involved in earlier. One on their flight and one involving other members of the public in the airport. Appear to be very nasty individuals looking for trouble. Certainly puts the police action in context. Why haven't the two individuals been charged yet?
Their lawyer should certainly be struck off for some of his statements, including encouraging a mob to march on the police. Unfortunately, lawyers only tend to get struck off if they steal money from their clients.
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They weren't involved in the earlier altercations. They piled in on someone their Mum had had a row with on the plane after they got to the arrivals hall. The police got involved to break that up.
 
Archibald Knox said:
I don’t think the copper realised he had been tasered and by raising his head and shoulders off the ground he was trying to get up. I am fairly sure that will be the PC’s explanation.
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I think its unreasonable to separate his action from defending himself 1 second prior.

From the coppers point of view its all 1 continuous engagement.
 
Archibald Knox said:
I don’t think the copper realised he had been tasered and by raising his head and shoulders off the ground he was trying to get up. I am fairly sure that will be the PC’s explanation.
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Yeah that’s fair enough but surely there other more reasonable methods to ensure someone continues to remain incapacitated?
 
EdgeleyTangerine said:
Hadn’t there been an earlier altercation on a plane? Clearly no risk of a suicide vest. What nonsense.
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The lads hadnt been on the plane. Only the mother.
The altercation or ‘words’ on the plane were between the mother and a n other.
When she got off the plane she pointed out the person she’d argued with to her sons. That’s when they then kicked off in Starbucks terminal 2, assaulting this other person, in what is being described as a violent incident.
That is why they were then being arrested a few minutes later.
 
JJpool said:
Yes I forgot to mention in my summary about him being attacked from the guy in blue from behind multiple times, that he had also just been punched hard by the other guy many times before that too.

He showed real heart, strength and bravery to be able to be still up and able to gain control of the situation. He was though likely dazed, definitely hurt and will have been pumped up in what basically could have been a life or death struggle.
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👏👏 Absolutely how I feel.

If this guy gets criminally prosecuted I would happily join a peaceful protest in support of him, and I’m not your normal ‘protester’ type.
Our society is going to hell in a handcart if we punish those who are protecting the public the best way they can in extremely testing circumstances, with bravery and fortitude.
 
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What this proves to me is that too many people, including those who should know better like Andy Burnham, should keep their big traps shut until all the facts are out. Also the press are to blame for the misinformation by not investigating the incident properly, and for the following bun fight that occurred between various sections of the community.

There now seems to be an awful lot of back tracking from all and sundry.

I just hope for the policeman's sake that he is given a decent hearing and that the two thugs who attacked the Police are also given a fair trial with a fair outcome. We don't need things like this blowing up in society and causing more and more division.
 
Seems perfectly reasonable to see these things as separate situations.

1) The initial altercation.
2) The altercation with arresting officers
3) The final actions of the policeman.

Even if the 'suspects' are guilty of 1) and 2) it doesn't mean 3) isn't an offence. That's for a courts to decide.

From a moral perspective it's good that the full video has been released (or leaked) because it totally shows the actions of the policeman in a totally different context. Doesn't mean that it's OK or justified though.

For the record, I'm not really sure based on the footage I've seen. It really comes down to how much threat was perceived at the point of the first kick.
 
Curryman said:
What this proves to me is that too many people, including those who should know better like Andy Burnham, should keep their big traps shut until all the facts are out. Also the press are to blame for the misinformation by not investigating the incident properly, and for the following bun fight that occurred between various sections of the community.

There now seems to be an awful lot of back tracking from all and sundry.

I just hope for the policeman's sake that he is given a decent hearing and that the two thugs who attacked the Police are also given a fair trial with a fair outcome. We don't need things like this blowing up in society and causing more and more division.
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Maybe I missed something but wasn't Andy Burnham saying 'we need to see both sides' from the start?
 
straightatthewall said:
Seems perfectly reasonable to see these things as separate situations.

1) The initial altercation.
2) The altercation with arresting officers
3) The final actions of the policeman.

Even if the 'suspects' are guilty of 1) and 2) it doesn't mean 3) isn't an offence. That's for a courts to decide.

From a moral perspective it's good that the full video has been released (or leaked) because it totally shows the actions of the policeman in a totally different context. Doesn't mean that it's OK or justified though.

For the record, I'm not really sure based on the footage I've seen. It really comes down to how much threat was perceived at the point of the first kick.
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Tend to agree with that but it would be certainly be feasible for the police officer to mount a defence around the impact of being hit on the back of the head 6 or 7 times and that it was a continuous action where his reaction to a threat to him and the other officers.
 
bfcpete said:
Tend to agree with that but it would be certainly be feasible for the police officer to mount a defence around the impact of being hit on the back of the head 6 or 7 times and that it was a continuous action where his reaction to a threat to him and the other officers.
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Agree. There is a big argument that action 3 has to be considered within the whole of the action 2 fracas. Like a chemical reaction transforming into an outcome after shaking all the ingredients around, such as aggressive assault, fear, confusion, disorientation and unknown risk. A bit more than most of us contend with in a days work.
 
Lala said:
Agree. There is a big argument that action 3 has to be considered within the whole of the action 2 fracas. Like a chemical reaction transforming into an outcome after shaking all the ingredients around, such as aggressive assault, fear, confusion, disorientation and unknown risk. A bit more than most of us contend with in a days work.
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Yes. They are clearly circumstances that would create muddled thinking and emotional reactions. Flip side to that is that this is a serving police officer and they SHOULD be able to deal with this sort of thing.
 
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