Incitement to kill

Phil_bfc neuf said:
They have broken ceasefires again and again

The Palestinians need help I agree but they really need to help themselves and stop supporting Hamas who have caused this latest carnage
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Both sides are equally at fault.

But he started it is the language of toddlers.
 
no
Wizaard said:
Both sides are equally at fault.

But he started it is the language of toddlers.
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no it is isn't It's the language of truth.

"Equally at fault"? Not sure any of your posts suggest there is anything equally about it!
 
20togo said:
no

no it is isn't It's the language of truth.

"Equally at fault"? Not sure any of your posts suggest there is anything equally about it!
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I've always maintained that there can be no winners only losers and have condemned both sides.
 
y
Wizaard said:
I've always maintained that there can be no winners only losers and have condemned both sides.
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yep, agree, no winners in this and i've said it before going back a long time that it would always be Israel painted in a bad light and so it's being proven. But for me the bigger picture is that they are fighting for their very existence whilst surrounded by countries and terrorist organisations who want to wipe them off the face of the earth. So I understand their hard stance whilst acknowledging that they are crossing the line of what is acceptable in increasing numbers.
 
20togo said:
a one off event that started this war! A war started by Hamas. Are you that naive to realise it wouldn't have consequences as harsh as they may be.
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Wrong , as it has been explained to you a million times.

it started with the UN creating a new state without bothering to put in place arrangements for those Muslims and Christians already living there.

The first massacres were the Nakba in 1948, with millions of Palestinians and Christians being displaced from land they owned, and a good many killed.

The wars following this have been caused by the lack of consideration to a permanent home state for this displaced. You yourself have commented on the appaling actions of settlers now, egged on by at least 2 cabinet ministers, killing Palestinians and burning their homes, bulldozing their schools. Is it any wonder Palestinians and their supporters fight back?

The events of October 2023 were appalling, and have been condemned by all on this board. Nothing done by Hamas can possibly justify the murder of civilians trying to get food. 130 plus disaster aid charities have condemned the current IDF controlled "Aid", comments like rat trap are common.

And I still come back to this. Why, when Mossad can find a single Iranian in Iran, and their own Border Force was reporting practice runs and suspicious activity, did they not stop it? Even the NYT said the Israelis had the blueprint for this attack 1 year prior to the attack. Why can Netanyahu get away from being tried for corruption because he's too busy running a war?

Lastly, being against the Israeli Government and condemning the actions of the ODF is not anti semitic. There are many, many Jewish groups around the world, particularly amongst the Orthodox, who condemn their actions, and want Netanyahu and his cohort out. The massive demonstrations in Israel, including many who's family members were taken hostage, want a negotiated end, very little about that in our media, wonder why?
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Wrong , as it has been explained to you a million times.

it started with the UN creating a new state without bothering to put in place arrangements for those Muslims and Christians already living there.

The first massacres were the Nakba in 1948, with millions of Palestinians and Christians being displaced from land they owned, and a good many killed.

The wars following this have been caused by the lack of consideration to a permanent home state for this displaced. You yourself have commented on the appaling actions of settlers now, egged on by at least 2 cabinet ministers, killing Palestinians and burning their homes, bulldozing their schools. Is it any wonder Palestinians and their supporters fight back?

The events of October 2023 were appalling, and have been condemned by all on this board. Nothing done by Hamas can possibly justify the murder of civilians trying to get food. 130 plus disaster aid charities have condemned the current IDF controlled "Aid", comments like rat trap are common.

And I still come back to this. Why, when Mossad can find a single Iranian in Iran, and their own Border Force was reporting practice runs and suspicious activity, did they not stop it? Even the NYT said the Israelis had the blueprint for this attack 1 year prior to the attack. Why can Netanyahu get away from being tried for corruption because he's too busy running a war?

Lastly, being against the Israeli Government and condemning the actions of the ODF is not anti semitic. There are many, many Jewish groups around the world, particularly amongst the Orthodox, who condemn their actions, and want Netanyahu and his cohort out. The massive demonstrations in Israel, including many who's family members were taken hostage, want a negotiated end, very little about that in our media, wonder why?
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Nice selective grasp of history

You should be a politician conveniently forgetting about several thousand years of history
 
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Tangerinemoss said:
Wrong , as it has been explained to you a million times.

it started with the UN creating a new state without bothering to put in place arrangements for those Muslims and Christians already living there.

The first massacres were the Nakba in 1948, with millions of Palestinians and Christians being displaced from land they owned, and a good many killed.

The wars following this have been caused by the lack of consideration to a permanent home state for this displaced. You yourself have commented on the appaling actions of settlers now, egged on by at least 2 cabinet ministers, killing Palestinians and burning their homes, bulldozing their schools. Is it any wonder Palestinians and their supporters fight back?

The events of October 2023 were appalling, and have been condemned by all on this board. Nothing done by Hamas can possibly justify the murder of civilians trying to get food. 130 plus disaster aid charities have condemned the current IDF controlled "Aid", comments like rat trap are common.

And I still come back to this. Why, when Mossad can find a single Iranian in Iran, and their own Border Force was reporting practice runs and suspicious activity, did they not stop it? Even the NYT said the Israelis had the blueprint for this attack 1 year prior to the attack. Why can Netanyahu get away from being tried for corruption because he's too busy running a war?

Lastly, being against the Israeli Government and condemning the actions of the ODF is not anti semitic. There are many, many Jewish groups around the world, particularly amongst the Orthodox, who condemn their actions, and want Netanyahu and his cohort out. The massive demonstrations in Israel, including many who's family members were taken hostage, want a negotiated end, very little about that in our media, wonder why?
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shut up with your nonsense, It's not wrong at all. Are you incapable of reading what i said. I'll spell it out for you. I said THIS war. This war started on 7/10/2023 when Hamas crossed into Israel and raped and murdered innocent Israelis. Prior to that there hadn't been a war for many years. There was at least some sort of peace, truce or whatever term you wish to choose and Hamas broke that.
 
20togo said:
shut up with your nonsense, It's not wrong at all. Are you incapable of reading what i said. I'll spell it out for you. I said THIS war. This war started on 7/10/2023 when Hamas crossed into Israel and raped and murdered innocent Israelis. Prior to that there hadn't been a war for many years. There was at least some sort of peace, truce or whatever term you wish to choose and Hamas broke that.
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What sort of peace allowed thousands of Palestinians to be thrown off their own land, and hundreds killed? What kind of peace made Gaza a fenced off prison camp? What kind of peace had 3000 plus kids imprisoned without trial indefinitely?

The last serious attempt at peace was Yitzak Rabin, and the settlers killed him, after the Oslo accords.

Open your eyes
 
Tangerinemoss said:
What sort of peace allowed thousands of Palestinians to be thrown off their own land, and hundreds killed? What kind of peace made Gaza a fenced off prison camp? What kind of peace had 3000 plus kids imprisoned without trial indefinitely?

The last serious attempt at peace was Yitzak Rabin, and the settlers killed him, after the Oslo accords.

Open your eyes
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whatever sort of peace it was, it wasn't a war was it? It was better than what occurred on 7/10/23 and subsequent events wasn't it? Would over 50,000 people be dead if Hamas hadn't crossed into Israel to murder so many innocent people? Answer is NO.

My eyes are open are yours.
 
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20togo said:
whatever sort of peace it was, it wasn't a war was it? It was better than what occurred on 7/10/23 and subsequent events wasn't it? Would over 50,000 people be dead if Hamas hadn't crossed into Israel to murder so many innocent people? Answer is NO.
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The only end to this conflict that has gone on for 75+ years is a negotiated peace with an independent nation state for Palestinians. As long as the Israelis kill, displace and imprison innocent Muslims and Christians, there can never be peace. They are Terrorists recruiting sergeants, be it the PLO, the PLF, Hamas, Hezbollah, or whoever comes next.

The Palestinians did not break the Oslo Accords, the extremist Zionists did. If they hadn't, who knows where we would be now, maybe one less powder keg in the world.
 
I very much agree with your first sentence. However, are all Muslims in this country jihadists or part of grooming gangs? Of course not, yet here you are lumping and generalising about Israelis. I've already made it clear my views on Netanyahu as you well know, especially when it comes to the settler problem. Netanyahu needs to be gone at their next elections and a more moderate govt elected. We'll see if and when that happens.
 
20togo said:
I very much agree with your first sentence. However, are all Muslims in this country jihadists or part of grooming gangs? Of course not, yet here you are lumping and generalising about Israelis. I've already made it clear my views on Netanyahu as you well know, especially when it comes to the settler problem. Netanyahu needs to be gone at their next elections and a more moderate govt elected. We'll see if and when that happens.
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Would you be happy if I changed Israelis to Israeli Government, then? That was my intent.

Yippee, we agree :)
 
Imagine if Wales was an area to England as is Gaza to Israel, where the Welsh had the philosophy that England and the English should be wiped off the face of the Earth and won't stop until that happens. regular rocket and terrorist attacks. Imagine their government encouraged this, treated their own people badly and organised a brutal attack on innocents at Glastonbury, whilst also taking hostages. Imagine that this is after allowing the Welsh over the border for hospital treatment, work etc in the past. Imagine then controlling our borders and trying to eradicate the problem, whilst trying to get the Welsh to rise up against the terrorist government. Going soft wouldn't be an option. I'm not saying the Israeli's and IDF are right in what they are doing, but I can see why.
Sorry Phil, using the Welsh was just an example.
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
Imagine if Wales was an area to England as is Gaza to Israel, where the Welsh had the philosophy that England and the English should be wiped off the face of the Earth and won't stop until that happens. regular rocket and terrorist attacks. Imagine their government encouraged this, treated their own people badly and organised a brutal attack on innocents at Glastonbury, whilst also taking hostages. Imagine that this is after allowing the Welsh over the border for hospital treatment, work etc in the past. Imagine then controlling our borders and trying to eradicate the problem, whilst trying to get the Welsh to rise up against the terrorist government. Going soft wouldn't be an option. I'm not saying the Israeli's and IDF are right in what they are doing, but I can see why.
Sorry Phil, using the Welsh was just an example.
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It's a great example to be honest

Reminds me of Covid when the Welsh Labour government wouldn't allow me to work in England
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
Imagine if Wales was an area to England as is Gaza to Israel, where the Welsh had the philosophy that England and the English should be wiped off the face of the Earth and won't stop until that happens. regular rocket and terrorist attacks. Imagine their government encouraged this, treated their own people badly and organised a brutal attack on innocents at Glastonbury, whilst also taking hostages. Imagine that this is after allowing the Welsh over the border for hospital treatment, work etc in the past. Imagine then controlling our borders and trying to eradicate the problem, whilst trying to get the Welsh to rise up against the terrorist government. Going soft wouldn't be an option. I'm not saying the Israeli's and IDF are right in what they are doing, but I can see why.
Sorry Phil, using the Welsh was just an example.
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Somehow you have got your analogy the wrong way around. Imagine if the entire population of England was forced into Cornwall by, say, the Welsh, who annexed their land from Carlisle to Dover, offered it to any returning Welsh expats or peole prepared to embrace the Welsh "faith" from all over the world, and starved, brutalised and murdered the displaced English at random.
 
mr_milo said:
Somehow you have got your analogy the wrong way around. Imagine if the entire population of England was forced into Cornwall by, say, the Welsh, who annexed their land from Carlisle to Dover, offered it to any returning Welsh expats or peole prepared to embrace the Welsh "faith" from all over the world, and starved, brutalised and murdered the displaced English at random.
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And 78 years before that you were told that you don't have a country anymore because it had been given to Wales.
 
Phil_bfc neuf said:
Palestine only got independence in 1988 and they have been fcuking things up for themselves ever since
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You could also say that Israel was only created in 1948 and has been at pretty much constant war with its neighbours since then.

The project clearly hasn’t gone well by whatever measure you use.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
You could also say that Israel was only created in 1948 and has been at pretty much constant war with its neighbours since then.

The project clearly hasn’t gone well by whatever measure you use.
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Mexboroseasider said:
You could also say that Israel was only created in 1948 and has been at pretty much constant war with its neighbours since then.

The project clearly hasn’t gone well by whatever measure you use.
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I agree it's a right mess
 
1966_and_all_that said:
My point precisely. All of a sudden Palestine didn't exist.
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I understood your point.

It’s like someone turning up on my doorstep saying “My great grandparents used to live in this house so clearly it belongs to me. Could you please vacate as soon as possible”.

I can’t imagine anyone would meekly comply.

And then add religious animosity (both ways) into the mix.

It’s hardly a surprise there’s been almost constant conflict for nearly 80 years.
 
I think a lot on this board have made incitements to kill with football chants back in the day. Tmes have changed for the betterwhich is good.
 
Phil_bfc neuf said:
"Your gonna get your fcking head kicked in"
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You are jolly well going home in a flipping ambulance we all joined in with that crap, football used to be a working man's sport and a way to let off steam. If you start banging up people for what they say for one you have to do it for all. I think our prisons are full enough as it is.
 
Wizaard said:
Why is there still a debate about a two state settlement if its there already?
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There is no such place as Palastine it doesn't exist. There is such a thing as Hamas and no middle eastern country will harbour them or let them cross their borders. Israel has no 2nd state to bargain with and Hamas demand their destrucion. I assume you can see how this makes things a tad tricky.
 
bill40 said:
There is no such place as Palastine it doesn't exist. There is such a thing as Hamas and no middle eastern country will harbour them or let them cross their borders. Israel has no 2nd state to bargain with and Hamas demand their destrucion. I assume you can see how this makes things a tad tricky.
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I wasnt the one claiming there was a Palestine since 1988.
 
Fargo99 said:
The Middle East would be a much safer place for all Nations if Israel wasn't in it.
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There wouldn’t have been as much war and bloodshed in the Middle East since 1948 if Israel hadn’t been created, that’s for sure.

No 1948 war. No 1967 war. No 1973 war. No invasion of Lebanon in the 1980s. No intifadas. Or Gazas. Or West Banks.

And no PLO, Hamas or Hezbollah either.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
There wouldn’t have been as much war and bloodshed in the Middle East since 1948 if Israel hadn’t been created, that’s for sure.

No 1948 war. No 1967 war. No 1973 war. No invasion of Lebanon in the 1980s. No intifadas. Or Gazas. Or West Banks.

And no PLO, Hamas or Hezbollah either.
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By more than 1,000 years, “Israel” predates “Palestine.”

Are you aware of this 🤔
 
mr_milo said:
So the Angles and Saxons should get back in their boats and reclaim their ancestral homeland, leaving Britain to the natives?

Anyway genetics suggests both Palestinians and ethnic Jews are indigenous to the Levant and both descend from the ancient Caananites: Origin of Palestinians
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I'm pointing out that 1948 wasn't the first time Israel was a country, every time this Arab v Israel conflict gets mentioned folk bring out this 1948 thing and its not that simple as you know

Several people on this site try and re write history I'm just putting them right

Not sure the relevance of the Angles or Saxons either are you arguing for that or against it
 
Phil_bfc neuf said:
I'm pointing out that 1948 wasn't the first time Israel was a country, every time this Arab v Israel conflict gets mentioned folk bring out this 1948 thing and its not that simple as you know

Several people on this site try and re write history I'm just putting them right

Not sure the relevance of the Angles or Saxons either are you arguing for that or against it
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OK the logic of your argument is that UK descendants of the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and others, who came to Britain from continental Europe around 1600 years ago (and will no doubt include people reading this messageboard), are entitled to return to wherever they identify as their "ancestral homelands" in Germany and Denmark and bloodily and ruthlessly kick out whoever is living their now.

And you seem to be suggesting they have a right to do that. (?)
 
mr_milo said:
OK the logic of your argument is that UK descendants of the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and others, who came to Britain from continental Europe around 1600 years ago (and will no doubt include people reading this messageboard), are entitled to return to wherever they identify as their "ancestral homelands" in Germany and Denmark and bloodily and ruthlessly kick out whoever is living their now.

And you seem to be suggesting they have a right to do that. (?)
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I don't have an argument and I'm not saying anything about the Saxons or Angels please stop making things up

I'm saying Israel wasn't suddenly invented in 1948 no more so than Palestine was in 1988
 
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No need to deploy the "stop making things up" response when someone isn't making things up.

You called Juniorbents faulty analogy a "great example". It isn't.

BTW the current state of Israel WAS pretty much invented in the 20th century.
 
mr_milo said:
No need to deploy the "stop making things up" response when someone isn't making things up.

You called Juniorbents faulty analogy a "great example". It isn't.

BTW the current state of Israel WAS pretty much invented in the 20th century.
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It was a great analogy actually 😉. And if you look back at 1948, we realised it was a mess even then and pulled out of being involved and left it to the Yanks and others to resolve, which hasn’t gone very well. It’s a mess, and will always be a mess.
 
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