Jake Daniels

LA1 Seasider said:
Daniels is a bit younger than Apter isn’t he, so given where Apter was 2 seasons a go the move next season must be NLN or even half a season in the league below again with a move up a division if he can score.
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2 years younger, Apter was playing for Chester in NLN this time 2 years ago, although he had a spell in the NPL in the first half of the season.

I'd say JD is perhaps 6 months behind RA, but I think he lost a lot of last season to injury, so he's still more or less on track.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
You’re so right… you can’t even say merry Christmas anymore, immigrants keep stealing all our jobs, transgenders are freely allowed to have sex with kids and don’t even get me started on all these chemicals they’re spraying in the sky !! Thank god Trumps gonna bring down the Zionist deepstate. The last thing we want is a gay guy playing football !!!
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Sorry i don't get it what is the problem you have with your last comment?
 
FY4MIKEH said:
The way this world is going it won't be long until you've got to have at least 1 gay player in your squad.
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God forbid we stick to talking about the lad's football abilities 🙄 Even if this comment is sarcastic, it's ill-judged and I'm disappointed to see it from anyone, let alone a fan of Jake's team.
 
Wizzerboy said:
Nope, had my first knock at Carlisle last Friday .
First time I'd hit a ball since October of last year!!!
I've a couple of lancashire golf union comps lined up but looking like a quiet season for me this year🤷
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Played Hillside Saturday, great track!
Made more enjoyable checking the score from Bloomfield Road!
 
Lost Seasider said:
the fact that we've got a 21 y/o who's now L1 ready and is probably on a par or better than most of what Manchester City produce is a minor miracle in its own right.
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I'm a big fan of Apter but to think he's on a par or better than most of what City produce is a huge exaggeration, I think. City's academy has loads of quality in it, gleaned from around the world. Cole Palmer is only 21 and they decided they didn't even need him. They've made £442m from selling academy graduates since Pep arrived!
 
voyeur said:
I'm a big fan of Apter but to think he's on a par or better than most of what City produce is a huge exaggeration, I think. City's academy has loads of quality in it, gleaned from around the world. Cole Palmer is only 21 and they decided they didn't even need him. They've made £442m from selling academy graduates since Pep arrived!
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This shows you the players they have out on loan at the moment: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-city-u23/transfers/verein/9265/saison_id/2023

They've got a couple in the Championship and three in the PL, but they've also got 5 in L1, and one in L2, plus another 8 aged 20/21 who are stuck at the club playing PL2 football.

So yes, City get a haul of maybe 5 or so "top" players per season, but I'd say that it's hard to argue that any of the L1/2 players are better than Apter, even more so the 8 who can't get an EFL club, so my guess is that if he were at City, he'd probably be considered as someone in the middle of the pack, possibly pushing into the top half.

Of course, if he were at City, he'd probably be playing L1 minimum by now, but that's a different story.
 
Lost Seasider said:
This shows you the players they have out on loan at the moment: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-city-u23/transfers/verein/9265/saison_id/2023

They've got a couple in the Championship and three in the PL, but they've also got 5 in L1, and one in L2, plus another 8 aged 20/21 who are stuck at the club playing PL2 football.

So yes, City get a haul of maybe 5 or so "top" players per season, but I'd say that it's hard to argue that any of the L1/2 players are better than Apter, even more so the 8 who can't get an EFL club, so my guess is that if he were at City, he'd probably be considered as someone in the middle of the pack, possibly pushing into the top half.

Of course, if he were at City, he'd probably be playing L1 minimum by now, but that's a different story.
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He'd probably be playing L1 but might not be good enough. Whereas our own academy player who also may not be good enough for L1 - let's say Apter as so far he's 'only' done well in L2 - won't get the chance to play in L1 to see whether he's good enough.
My point has always been, why borrow unknown quantities and inexperienced players from a EPL academy when the majority of them have the same chance of breaking into a L1 first team as the 'best' L1 academy player? Yes, you will obviously get the odd top lad who you get a massive benefit from, but there's countless players who offer next to nothing when they turn up and have zero idea of the level of performance needed to succeed at L1 level. Or L2 for that matter.
 
straightatthewall said:
He'd probably be playing L1 but might not be good enough. Whereas our own academy player who also may not be good enough for L1 - let's say Apter as so far he's 'only' done well in L2 - won't get the chance to play in L1 to see whether he's good enough.
My point has always been, why borrow unknown quantities and inexperienced players from a EPL academy when the majority of them have the same chance of breaking into a L1 first team as the 'best' L1 academy player? Yes, you will obviously get the odd top lad who you get a massive benefit from, but there's countless players who offer next to nothing when they turn up and have zero idea of the level of performance needed to succeed at L1 level. Or L2 for that matter.
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Firstly, I'd dispute they're unknown quantities, any more than any other signing, the club will be scouting the PL2 games and will have a reasonable idea what they are signing, obviously not every signing works out, but that's the same with senior players as well.

Secondly, as you say, they're on a par with the "best" L1 academy player, but we only have one of those, so it boils down to a decision on what the club thought was best for RA's progression, a chance to break into the first team here, or a better chance at a slightly lower level.

Finally, as to why? Dembele, Simms, Ballard, Embleton, Gabriel...................
 
Lost Seasider said:
Firstly, I'd dispute they're unknown quantities, any more than any other signing, the club will be scouting the PL2 games and will have a reasonable idea what they are signing, obviously not every signing works out, but that's the same with senior players as well.

Secondly, as you say, they're on a par with the "best" L1 academy player, but we only have one of those, so it boils down to a decision on what the club thought was best for RA's progression, a chance to break into the first team here, or a better chance at a slightly lower level.

Finally, as to why? Dembele, Simms, Ballard, Embleton, Gabriel...................
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KDH Longstaff
 
Lost Seasider said:
Firstly, I'd dispute they're unknown quantities, any more than any other signing, the club will be scouting the PL2 games and will have a reasonable idea what they are signing, obviously not every signing works out, but that's the same with senior players as well.

Secondly, as you say, they're on a par with the "best" L1 academy player, but we only have one of those, so it boils down to a decision on what the club thought was best for RA's progression, a chance to break into the first team here, or a better chance at a slightly lower level.

Finally, as to why? Dembele, Simms, Ballard, Embleton, Gabriel...................
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Lost,

I'm not denying there's quality on offer. But I'd say we've had as many players who aren't up to 'real' first team professional football as those who can survive at L1 level and then there's the odd gem that will definitely play higher. This has been the case for a long time, irrespective of who's owned the club. I dare say there's some brinkmanship in taking plenty and accepting the 'failures' because it keeps the PL clubs sweet in terms of financing the loans and then you get the odd gem can really make a difference when it comes off.

My general point is there's times when we - and I reckon plenty of other clubs - prioritise a PL academy player over their own product and I'm not sure the short-term gain (if any) is worth it. Clubs will carry on doing it though so doesn't matter what I think, but I've enough EPL graduates look completely out of their depth in L1 and L2.

I've no issue with Apter being loaned to Tranmere at all. I'd be genuinely surprised if he was able to make the same impact on this season as Dembele so it's miles better for him to be getting real game time in real games that matter as he'll come back all the better for it. Same applies to players like Jake Daniels, Tayt Trusty, Jack Moore & Luke Mariette. Or any other lads we have coming through that are the cream of OUR crop.
 
straightatthewall said:
My general point is there's times when we - and I reckon plenty of other clubs - prioritise a PL academy player over their own product and I'm not sure the short-term gain (if any) is worth it. Clubs will carry on doing it though so doesn't matter what I think, but I've enough EPL graduates look completely out of their depth in L1 and L2.
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Who exactly? Apter aside, who does the club have in the academy who should be playing ahead of Dembele? Who should've been playing ahead of Patino, Fiorini, Rogers, Poveda last season?

If the players aren't ready for the first team, you can't expect the manager to pick them anyway, that's no good for the club or the player.


I've no issue with Apter being loaned to Tranmere at all. I'd be genuinely surprised if he was able to make the same impact on this season as Dembele so it's miles better for him to be getting real game time in real games that matter as he'll come back all the better for it. Same applies to players like Jake Daniels, Tayt Trusty, Jack Moore & Luke Mariette. Or any other lads we have coming through that are the cream of OUR crop.
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But now you're saying the club was right to loan them out anyway, because they're not ready for L1.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Who exactly? Apter aside, who does the club have in the academy who should be playing ahead of Dembele? Who should've been playing ahead of Patino, Fiorini, Rogers, Poveda last season?

If the players aren't ready for the first team, you can't expect the manager to pick them anyway, that's no good for the club or the player.



But now you're saying the club was right to loan them out anyway, because they're not ready for L1.
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I didn't say we had anyone who should play ahead of Dembele. I agree with the handling of Apter this season it's definitely the right approach for him.

Regarding who should have played ahead of Patino, Fiorini etc. well aside from the odd flash from them all, they didn't really provide much in reality. Certainly not enough to have us ever looking like we'd survive. Granted in Fiorini's case, he was always injured, but I also note that he's barely played for Charlton since signing and Patino isn't setting the world alight at Swansea either. Clearly we couldn't play our academy kids, but it doesn't mean we also had to play a PL's academy kids either.
And that's my point, you get a lot more misses or 'alrights' than hits from the PL kids, just as you get a load more misses and alrights' than hits from your own academy or first team players. So if both the PL academy kid is 'failing' and so is your own kid/player, then you may as well play your own over 'theirs' if you have to because at least you're creating a squad with continuity.

It's a model that football people clearly think works, so who am I to say it's wrong. I'm assuming there's 'value' seen in the approach, whether from a footballing perspective or financial savings. And as I acknowledged, it could be that taking the 'misses' keeps the door open for the gems when they're available - like your Dan Ballard and Ellis Simms.
 
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