Keith should apologise

rockontommy said:
This isn't a thread about whether Covid is real, anti-vaxxers and idiots calling for medical staff to be put on death lists though....


But it is though.
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But it is though. And you seem to be the one who is claiming the scientific advice so far has been wildly wrong and is worthless; based on a recent fall in numbers that no one, including the government, seems to properly understand. I may be wrong but you seem to be claiming that fall is cast iron evidence that the experts were wrong, lockdowns never worked and we should have let it rip from Day 1. After all you did post on another thread that Covid spreading like wildfire through the younger generations was “a beautiful thing”.

As a means of reducing the number of infections lockdowns clearly do work. That’s been proven time and again, both in the U.K. and around the world. Yes it’s a balancing act between reducing infections and damage to the economy and health in other ways but that’s been known and debated since the start. And it’s never been denied by any scientist I’ve listened to or read. It’s just that the public health issues took priority.

By way of reminder I joined this thread because someone said the key stat really was hospitalisations and I pointed out they were going up. And I repeat for the zillionth time - all I’m saying is that, given the increase in hospitalisations, it’s a bit early to be claiming we’re out of the woods.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
But it is though. And you seem to be the one who is claiming the scientific advice so far has been wildly wrong and is worthless; based on a recent fall in numbers that no one, including the government, seems to properly understand. I may be wrong but you seem to be claiming that fall is cast iron evidence that the experts were wrong, lockdowns never worked and we should have let it rip from Day 1. After all you did post on another thread that Covid spreading like wildfire through the younger generations was “a beautiful thing”.

As a means of reducing the number of infections lockdowns clearly do work. That’s been proven time and again, both in the U.K. and around the world. Yes it’s a balancing act between reducing infections and damage to the economy and health in other ways but that’s been known and debated since the start. And it’s never been denied by any scientist I’ve listened to or read. It’s just that the public health issues took priority.

By way of reminder I joined this thread because someone said the key stat really was hospitalisations and I pointed out they were going up. And I repeat for the zillionth time - all I’m saying is that, given the increase in hospitalisations, it’s a bit early to be claiming we’re out of the woods.
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You seem determined to try and drag this into a more vague, emotive discussion than it is. The OP which you describe as ramblings asks a specific question, I've asked further specific questions. Not interested in your opinions on lockdown and I know you aren't interested in mine. I think it's done, you don't. That's fine.

However, the experts have made a prediction and it has been bang wrong. Not about hospitalisations but cases. Are you able to offer an opinion on why this might be so or are you going to continue arguing points that nobody is making? Is Keith within his rights to take the advice at face value or should he now be having food for thought?
 
rockontommy said:
You seem determined to try and drag this into a more vague, emotive discussion than it is. The OP which you describe as ramblings asks a specific question, I've asked further specific questions. Not interested in your opinions on lockdown and I know you aren't interested in mine. I think it's done, you don't. That's fine.

However, the experts have made a prediction and it has been bang wrong. Not about hospitalisations but cases. Are you able to offer an opinion on why this might be so or are you going to continue arguing points that nobody is making? Is Keith within his rights to take the advice at face value or should he now be having food for thought?
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Ah back to the party political point scoring I see.

I imagine Starmer is doing much the same as Johnson - “watching this space” to see what happens in the next few weeks.

I have no idea why the cases are falling while hospitalisations are going up and neither does anyone else it seems; including you. However there are a few sensible suggestions on this thread if you read them with an open mind.

Have the scientists got their latest forecasts for case numbers wrong? Looks that way. Does that mean they’ve got everything wrong to date? Of course it doesn’t. Which is why Johnson has been following their advice, albeit reluctantly and belatedly in some cases. And governments around the world have been doing likewise.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Ah back to the party political point scoring I see.

I imagine Starmer is doing much the same as Johnson - “watching this space” to see what happens in the next few weeks.

I have no idea why the cases are falling while hospitalisations are going up and neither does anyone else it seems; including you. However there are a few sensible suggestions on this thread if you read them with an open mind.

Have the scientists got their latest forecasts for case numbers wrong? Looks that way. Does that mean they’ve got everything wrong to date? Of course it doesn’t. Which is why Johnson has been following their advice, albeit reluctantly and belatedly in some cases. And governments around the world have been doing likewise.
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Fair dos Mex. There are differences between just how much of the public health advice is being taken on board in different countries though. There are some US states that have come out in direct opposition to CDC for example and we threw our own pandemic preparedness plan out of the window mid-March 2020. I think we are an example of a country which has misused scientific advice to evade political responsibility although that appears to be changing. It isn't Gospel and nor should it be treated as such.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Personally I think it's too early to call the impact of the relaxation as there is always a delay

The closure of schools ( the undoubted super spreader ) will help

Let's hope the rates keep dropping
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And today's rate sees an increase. Retract that apology immediately.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
But it is though. And you seem to be the one who is claiming the scientific advice so far has been wildly wrong and is worthless; based on a recent fall in numbers that no one, including the government, seems to properly understand. I may be wrong but you seem to be claiming that fall is cast iron evidence that the experts were wrong, lockdowns never worked and we should have let it rip from Day 1. After all you did post on another thread that Covid spreading like wildfire through the younger generations was “a beautiful thing”.

As a means of reducing the number of infections lockdowns clearly do work. That’s been proven time and again, both in the U.K. and around the world. Yes it’s a balancing act between reducing infections and damage to the economy and health in other ways but that’s been known and debated since the start. And it’s never been denied by any scientist I’ve listened to or read. It’s just that the public health issues took priority.

By way of reminder I joined this thread because someone said the key stat really was hospitalisations and I pointed out they were going up. And I repeat for the zillionth time - all I’m saying is that, given the increase in hospitalisations, it’s a bit early to be claiming we’re out of the woods.
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That beautiful thing means a Pool fan I know is in intensive care on a ventilator while my wife's nephew has been taken into hospital yesterday with breathing difficulties as a consequence of catching covid.

I'll remind them it's just like a bit of flu and doesn't really affect anyone under 40.
 
Wizaard said:
That beautiful thing means a Pool fan I know is in intensive care on a ventilator while my wife's nephew has been taken into hospital yesterday with breathing difficulties as a consequence of catching covid.

I'll remind them it's just like a bit of flu and doesn't really affect anyone under 40.
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Hope you called them selfish granny killing arseholes for having the audacity to contract a virus. Or do you just reserve that for your online repartee?
 
Wizaard said:
And today's rate sees an increase. Retract that apology immediately.
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Up again today. Looks like the impact of the European Championships has passed through (large increase during and after followed by a large decrease). Hopefully cases don't start taking off again.
 
Neil Ferguson 19th July -Cases could hit 200,000 a day.
Neil Ferguson 27th July -Overconfident pandemic could be all over by October.

Is it any wonder we given up with all this nonsense.
 
My post was nothing to do with any point you're arguing, rather the emotive language you sometimes use. You've now chosen to swear nastily at me twice. The first time I reported it. I'll leave it at that.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
My post was nothing to do with any point you're arguing, rather the emotive language you sometimes use. You've now chosen to swear nastily at me twice. The first time I reported it. I'll leave it at that.
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Shame you couldn't have done that in the first place. If nasty responses are going to trigger you, don't post nasty messages yourself. Very simple.
 
We had to try to return to some sort of normality after 1 1/2yrs.
We’ve had one of the most successful vaccine rollouts, which offers long standing protection.
Gov should have stopped the mass testing and pings on or before freedom day.
Only the sick to stay at home or be tested. Number of cases in need of medical attention only to be tracked, along with any new variants.
Treatment in facilities away from hospitals.
 
tangerine_neil said:
We had to try to return to some sort of normality after 1 1/2yrs.
We’ve had one of the most successful vaccine rollouts, which offers long standing protection.
Gov should have stopped the mass testing and pings on or before freedom day.
Only the sick to stay at home or be tested. Number of cases in need of medical attention only to be tracked, along with any new variants.
Treatment in facilities away from hospitals.
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Stop the testing? Ignorance is bliss?
 
rockontommy said:
I did tell you to go fuck yourself however the mods removed it and advised I should try and argue my point without swearing, so here goes...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1421222975714598914

Only 970,000 short
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They're absolutely ridiculous.... A report in the Mirror also suggests that the same SAGE muppets were warning that Covid 'could' mutate into a more deadly virus and 'might possibly' kill up to a third of those who contract it. Of course, this is all wild supposition, based on absolutely nothing other than the 'remote possibility'.... For some reason they seem desperate to retain some kind of grip on their power / influence and come up with ever more ridiculous models and threats in order to keep themselves in the limelight.
 
rockontommy said:
Only 970,000 short
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Yeeessss................

Okay, first point that article is by Sarah Knapton, or Sarah Knapton-Wrong as I've taken to calling her, I'm not sure where that was published but there's a similar piece in the Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...rned-1m-cases-week-even-third-wave-subsiding/

This is a good opportunity to look at the claim and compare it to the reality so:

Government modellers predicted that cases could hit one million a week

This document is in the public domain: SPI-M-O: Statement on their concerns for next few months, lets see what it really says:

If incidence reaches very high levels, such as greater than 1m infections per week, there could be implications for workforces and critical infrastructure...............

So straight off the headline and central claim is wrong, the modellers have made no such predictions, and the rest of the article seems to be selective quotations taken out of context to give the impression that the scientists are completely wrong, such as:

Knapton-Wrong:
A day before cases peaked at 60,000, government scientists were saying that ‘stringent Covid measures’ could be needed

SPI-M-O
If growth in incidence does not show signs of starting to plateau at expected levels, or significantly exceeding estimates from Roadmap modelling, then stringent measures may be required to reverse growth.

Knapton-Wrong:
The statement.....also reveals that the the modellers believed the ending of restrictions may have to be reversed.

SPI-M-O
Damned if I can find anything in there that supports that claim.


And so on.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
They're absolutely ridiculous.... A report in the Mirror also suggests that the same SAGE muppets were warning that Covid 'could' mutate into a more deadly virus and 'might possibly' kill up to a third of those who contract it. Of course, this is all wild supposition, based on absolutely nothing other than the 'remote possibility'.... For some reason they seem desperate to retain some kind of grip on their power / influence and come up with ever more ridiculous models and threats in order to keep themselves in the limelight.
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Here's a though, maybe read what was actually published by SAGE rather than the Mirror.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Yeeessss................

Okay, first point that article is by Sarah Knapton, or Sarah Knapton-Wrong as I've taken to calling her, I'm not sure where that was published but there's a similar piece in the Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...rned-1m-cases-week-even-third-wave-subsiding/

This is a good opportunity to look at the claim and compare it to the reality so:

Government modellers predicted that cases could hit one million a week

This document is in the public domain: SPI-M-O: Statement on their concerns for next few months, lets see what it really says:

If incidence reaches very high levels, such as greater than 1m infections per week, there could be implications for workforces and critical infrastructure...............

So straight off the headline and central claim is wrong, the modellers have made no such predictions, and the rest of the article seems to be selective quotations taken out of context to give the impression that the scientists are completely wrong, such as:

Knapton-Wrong:
A day before cases peaked at 60,000, government scientists were saying that ‘stringent Covid measures’ could be needed

SPI-M-O
If growth in incidence does not show signs of starting to plateau at expected levels, or significantly exceeding estimates from Roadmap modelling, then stringent measures may be required to reverse growth.

Knapton-Wrong:
The statement.....also reveals that the the modellers believed the ending of restrictions may have to be reversed.

SPI-M-O
Damned if I can find anything in there that supports that claim.


And so on.
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Ketchup - I really can't be arsed to read all of that. You and I both know what we are seeing is the bastardisation of science. Rolls Royce engineering this ain't.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Okay, TLDR version is your post was ignorant bollocks as usual.

Happy to help.
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Don't know what TLDR means. Anyway, you've spent a lot of time arguing with me over the last year plus only to volte face and argue the exact opposite (my position) with other posters since Wanksock left. Subsequently, it is very hard to take your 'pure as the driven snow' science schtick seriously. You believe whatever Tory high command believes - which has fuck all to do with science btw - that's your agenda. Mine is leading a normal life and encouraging as many of my fellow humans to do the same.
 
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rockontommy said:
Don't know what TLDR means. Anyway, you've spent a lot of time arguing with me over the last year plus only to volte face and argue the exact opposite (my position) with other posters since Wanksock left. Subsequently, it is very hard to take your 'pure as the driven snow' science schtick seriously. You believe whatever Tory high command believes - which has fuck all to do with science btw - that's your agenda. Mine is leading a normal life and encouraging as many of my fellow humans to do the same.
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😂 I’m assuming Wanksock is Cummings?

Then again it’s a pretty crowded field so I might be wrong.

But I do enjoy watching the Right bicker amongst themselves. So crack on lads.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
😂 I’m assuming Wanksock is Cummings?

Then again it’s a pretty crowded field so I might be wrong.

But I do enjoy watching the Right bicker amongst themselves. So crack on lads.
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I'm a leftie albeit one that is cured with the Labour Party. Voted for Keith as leader around a year ago. What a mistake that was!
 
rockontommy said:
I'm a leftie albeit one that is cured with the Labour Party. Voted for Keith as leader around a year ago. What a mistake that was!
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I have doubts whether what you have posted is true.

If you were really a lefty you’d be rushing to Cat’s defence whenever he’s unfairly attacked. I can’t recall that ever happening.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I have doubts whether what you have posted is true.

If you were really a lefty you’d be rushing to Cat’s defence whenever he’s unfairly attacked.
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I don't care what you believe to be true and Cat is a bigot so I won't be rushing to his defence any time soon.
 
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