Kiers tax rises

ItsGrimUpNorth said:
Well, well, well..

A manifesto lie. Imagine the outrage had this been done by another party?

First income tax rise since 1975, when.. wait for it.. Denis Healey put an income tax rise in.

That party for the people, doing things for the people.. again.
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Taxes should have risen on day one of the new government.

Despite the warnings, the country voted for Brexit and then let Boris attempt to arrange a Brexit deal. We committed economic suicide and need to pay for it.

Labour are being blamed for the mistakes made by others and in fairness, they’ve made plenty of their own. Campaigning on a promise not to raise tax was downright stupid when its so obvious we need to raise money.

The problem we have in Britain is that we expect the best of the best and expect public services to be of a high quality but no one is willing to pay for it.

We also have an ageing population and falling birth rates which impacts growth and everything associated with it.

We really are fucked and apparently the best way to solve our problems is to vote in Reform who will decimate public services even further, cut taxes for the wealthy and leave the rest of us in even more shit than we already are.

The electorate gets what it deserves.
 
EdgeleyTangerine said:
Taxes should have risen on day one of the new government.

Despite the warnings, the country voted for Brexit and then let Boris attempt to arrange a Brexit deal. We committed economic suicide and need to pay for it.

Labour are being blamed for the mistakes made by others and in fairness, they’ve made plenty of their own. Campaigning on a promise not to raise tax was downright stupid when its so obvious we need to raise money.

The problem we have in Britain is that we expect the best of the best and expect public services to be of a high quality but the only problem is no one is willing to pay for it.

We also have an ageing population and falling birth rates which impacts growth and everything associated with it.

We really are fucked and apparently the best way to solve our problems is to vote in Reform who will decimate public services even further, cut taxes for the wealthy and leave the rest of us in even more shit than we already are.

The electorate gets what it deserves.
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Re: Reform Voters

People have had enough. They’re sick of Tory and Labour lies, they’re sick of being led down the garden path time and time again. They’re sick of cover ups. They’re sick of being laughed at by the government. I don’t think reform are the perfect answer, but I think they’re the best of a VERY bad bunch at the moment.

The electorate does get what it deserves, which is how it should be - we live in a democracy. And whether you, me or anyone likes it, the majority get what they vote for which is the correct and only fair way of doing it.

The NHS is on its arse and is rammed with those who also don’t want the best for it. Constant strikes despite wage hikes, below par treatment from umpteen amounts of patients - sometimes resulting in death.

Change is needed.

In regards to not taxing the rich - Do you believe that billionaires will be willing to pay a shed load more tax to support people who don’t want to work? They’ve got money, they’ll flee to Dubai or other countries. Then who is left to cover the footfall? The working class. They should be taxed as much as possible, but within reason to ensure they remain within our country. People don’t realise the ramifications for our country if we drive out multi-millionaires & billionaires. And, whether people admit it or not, it boils down a lot to jealousy from those who haven’t got the money that others have.
 
ItsGrimUpNorth said:
Re: Reform Voters

People have had enough. They’re sick of Tory and Labour lies, they’re sick of being led down the garden path time and time again. They’re sick of cover ups. They’re sick of being laughed at by the government. I don’t think reform are the perfect answer, but I think they’re the best of a VERY bad bunch at the moment.

The electorate does get what it deserves, which is how it should be - we live in a democracy. And whether you, me or anyone likes it, the majority get what they vote for which is the correct and only fair way of doing it.

The NHS is on its arse and is rammed with those who also don’t want the best for it. Constant strikes despite wage hikes, below par treatment from umpteen amounts of patients - sometimes resulting in death.

Change is needed.

In regards to not taxing the rich - Do you believe that billionaires will be willing to pay a shed load more tax to support people who don’t want to work? They’ve got money, they’ll flee to Dubai or other countries. Then who is left to cover the footfall? The working class. They should be taxed as much as possible, but within reason to ensure they remain within our country. People don’t realise the ramifications for our country if we drive out multi-millionaires & billionaires. And, whether people admit it or not, it boils down a lot to jealousy from those who haven’t got the money that others have.
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Reform aren’t even the best of a bad bunch. It’s genuinely frightening that people think they are the answer. The man who helped orchestrate the Brexit disaster and the ensuing chaos is now our knight in shining armour. Absolute nonsense.

That said, you are absolutely spot on that change is needed. What the change looks like though…who knows.

The millionaires and billionaires can threaten to leave all they want. They are rich because they have partly been successful but also because they taken advantage of the working class. The biggest problem we face is not immigration, health care, security, or anything else, it’s wealth inequality.
 
EdgeleyTangerine said:
Reform aren’t even the best of a bad bunch. It’s genuinely frightening that people think they are the answer. The man who helped orchestrate the Brexit disaster and the ensuing chaos is now our knight in shining armour. Absolute nonsense.

That said, you are absolutely spot on that change is needed. What the change looks like though…who knows.

The millionaires and billionaires can threaten to leave all they want. They are rich because they have partly been successful but also because they taken advantage of the working class. The biggest problem we face is not immigration, health care, security, or anything else, it’s wealth inequality.
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There is no threatening involved, they will act upon it.

They will flee to Dubai and pay 0 tax. Who then picks up the footfall?

Why should we all have equal wealth? Why should someone who has grafted to build a company from scratch, have the same amount of money as those who haven’t put the hard yards in? It’s morally wrong and in-accurate of life. You reap what you sow.

Do you actually believe that?
 
ItsGrimUpNorth said:
There is no threatening involved, they will act upon it.

They will flee to Dubai and pay 0 tax. Who then picks up the footfall?

Why should we all have equal wealth? Why should someone who has grafted to build a company from scratch, have the same amount of money as those who haven’t put the hard yards in? It’s morally wrong and in-accurate of life. You reap what you sow.

Do you actually believe that?
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I believe there should be a better distribution of wealth.
 
EdgeleyTangerine said:
I believe there should be a better distribution of wealth.
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Can you put some context to this?

So, please factor these roles into wage brackets.

- CEO of a company worth 1 billion who earns £1 million a year
- Area Manager of company
- General Manager of company
- Team Leader of area of company
- Trained employee
- Untrained employee
- Cleaner of offices

Hypothetically speaking, of course
 
poolseasider said:
No you don't your a classic Champagne socialist who has very nice life and not willing to give none of it up.
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You know nothing about my life but I would point out that I have encouraged tax rises several times. I am a higher rate tax payer who will probably be hit the hardest by the budget so yes, I am willing to give more of it up 👍
 
ItsGrimUpNorth said:
Can you put some context to this?

So, please factor these roles into wage brackets.

- CEO of a company worth 1 billion who earns £1 million a year
- Area Manager of company
- General Manager of company
- Team Leader of area of company
- Trained employee
- Untrained employee
- Cleaner of offices

Hypothetically speaking, of course
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Of course people with different roles, training, education, etc should earn more money accordingly. That’s not my point. My point is that the more you earn the more you should pay in tax and if you earn the most you should be taxed the most. Threatening to leave and effectively pulling up the drawbridge is nothing but an example of greed but I do concede it’s a fine balancing act.
 
EdgeleyTangerine said:
Of course people with different roles, training, education, etc should earn more money accordingly. That’s not my point. My point is that the more you earn the more you should pay in tax and if you earn the most you should be taxed the most. Threatening to leave and effectively pulling up the drawbridge is nothing but an example of greed but I do concede it’s a fine balancing act.
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But they do?

They’re in a higher tax bracket, they pay tax on their companies, dividends aside as they’re a crucial tool for companies and have been implemented for a number of years.

Why wouldn’t they leave to a tax-free county if they’re at risk of being taxed exponentially more?
 
EdgeleyTangerine said:
Of course people with different roles, training, education, etc should earn more money accordingly. That’s not my point. My point is that the more you earn the more you should pay in tax and if you earn the most you should be taxed the most. Threatening to leave and effectively pulling up the drawbridge is nothing but an example of greed but I do concede it’s a fine balancing act.
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Lord Tomlin disagrees with you: Duke of Westminster's Case (1936)

Every man is entitled, if he can, to order his affairs so that the tax attaching under the appropriate Acts is less than it otherwise would be. If he succeeds in ordering them so as to secure this result, then, however unappreciative the Commissioners of Inland Revenue or his fellow tax-payers may be of his ingenuity, he cannot be compelled to pay an increased tax
 
Lost Seasider said:
Okay, but I've no idea how you vary VAT according to "ability to pay" anyway.

Previous points about "Laffer curve" remain.
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Are we not just paying the price for Brexit and the flamboyant way Johnson handled covid. The Truss budget scared the life out of many big company board rooms and tbh we have never recovered.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Lord Tomlin disagrees with you: Duke of Westminster's Case (1936)

Every man is entitled, if he can, to order his affairs so that the tax attaching under the appropriate Acts is less than it otherwise would be. If he succeeds in ordering them so as to secure this result, then, however unappreciative the Commissioners of Inland Revenue or his fellow tax-payers may be of his ingenuity, he cannot be compelled to pay an increased tax
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Doesn't sound good for women though.
 
EdgeleyTangerine said:
Of course people with different roles, training, education, etc should earn more money accordingly. That’s not my point. My point is that the more you earn the more you should pay in tax and if you earn the most you should be taxed the most. Threatening to leave and effectively pulling up the drawbridge is nothing but an example of greed but I do concede it’s a fine balancing act.
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What is paying tax all about? It's about contributing to a central pot in order that the country can benefit from centrally provided services. People who want to avoid tax put their selfish, personal desires above policing, defence, education, health & welfare services, State pensions, social services, IT communications, road networks, utility supplies, rubbish collection and disposal, lighting, prison services, the rail network, international relations and lots of other good things that make us the country that we are.
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
Tenanted pubs are feeling the squeeze because they have to charge £5 - £6 a pint (£9 or £10 in London) to make a small profit
Spoons is seen as the benchmark now because beer is so cheap compared to the others.....That's why small independent pubs are doing well
OR...You can stay home, watch Sky sports and drink 4 Beers for £5......That's killing pubs, not the Government

As for retailers.....it's a dead market as the internet will deliver what you want, the next day for a better price.
We buy all our dog food in bulk from a place down south and it's more or less wholesale price...even our local pet food place is giving up trying to compete and reducing their stock levels.....it's a dying business
Would lower business rates help.......Maybe for small companies under a certain size/turnover
Would the reduction of VAT or taxes.....not really as the internet would feel the same effects
Would an 'internet tax' help.......could do for businesses based on the high street....but they will still die off

The high street as we know it is dying off.....Coffee shops, Vapes, Turkish hairdressers and betting shops........will be the only things left
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Missed charity shops off the High Street list
 
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