Labour Party as Dead as Disco

Bloodtangerine

Bloodtangerine

Well-known member
Party torn down the middle, has no policies at all, just talks in generalities about winning the public’s trust back.....in what??

Starmer isn’t inspirational and almost certainly will be ousted/resign at some stage in next 12/18 months

Then they will elect a left wing leader or if they don’t another who will be harangued by the left wing as Starmer shortly will be

Surely we need a new more centrist Party to provide the opposition that Democracy relies on. It isn’t healthy to have a one Party state which is to all intents and purposes what we have due to Labour’s total Impotence
 
Bloodtangerine said:
Party torn down the middle, has no policies at all, just talks in generalities about winning the public’s trust back.....in what??

Starmer isn’t inspirational and almost certainly will be ousted/resign at some stage in next 12/18 months

Then they will elect a left wing leader or if they don’t another who will be harangued by the left wing as Starmer shortly will be

Surely we need a new more centrist Party to provide the opposition that Democracy relies on. It isn’t healthy to have a one Party state which is to all intents and purposes what we have due to Labour’s total Impotence
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Very true.

As obnoxious and thoroughly dishonest the Tories are, Labour is weak and inept.

Time for a new party, but they'll need to find a truly great politician to lead it. Most of our country seems to think that Bungling lying Boris has set the bar high.

Gawd help us.
 
It will probably take a few more election defeats but at some point we surely must have a progressive alliance between Labour / Lib Dems/ SNP/ Plwyd / Greens where they agree not to field candidates against each other against the Conservative. Then in government the alliance could implement a PR system that should lead to a more cooperative type of government and have another GE fairly quickly.
ATM we have a government supported by roughly 30% of the electorate and it is the same when Labour are in power, is this really the best form of democracy? The system we have renders the vast majority of votes meaningless.
 
Bloodtangerine said:
Party torn down the middle, has no policies at all, just talks in generalities about winning the public’s trust back.....in what??

Starmer isn’t inspirational and almost certainly will be ousted/resign at some stage in next 12/18 months

Then they will elect a left wing leader or if they don’t another who will be harangued by the left wing as Starmer shortly will be

Surely we need a new more centrist Party to provide the opposition that Democracy relies on. It isn’t healthy to have a one Party state which is to all intents and purposes what we have due to Labour’s total Impotence
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Agree with most of that except that I think Starmer will remain to fight the next election and in all likelihood lose it. These are unusual times, in 3 years everything will seem completely different but I can't see how Labour can ever gain an outright majority for the forseeable future.
 
Going Up the Pool said:
Very true.

As obnoxious and thoroughly dishonest the Tories are, Labour is weak and inept.

Time for a new party, but they'll need to find a truly great politician to lead it. Most of our country seems to think that Bungling lying Boris has set the bar high.

Gawd help us.
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I think that encapsulates my thoughts perfectly. We have a thoroughly incompetent party in power and they still look miles more electable than Labour. I don’t really blame Starmer for that, he’s had no chance in the covid era to really attack the government on anything because whatever is said is batted away with ‘nobody could have done better’. That large swathes of the country accept that says as much about the world we live in as anything else, but that’s life.

As you say Going Up, the Scottish situation also doesn’t help Labour.

I’m left with the overwhelming feeling that the United Kingdom deserves a lot better than what we’re currently getting from all our political representatives. Let’s be frank, if Boris is the best of the lot then we’re in a deep deep hole.

As abhorrent as Maggie was to many, at least you knew who she was and what she stood for. And it wasn’t her own gain.

Repsonding directly to the OP, Labour needs to get back to a Blairite style. Centrist policies that appeal to the masses. That’s what the country votes for time and again.
 
A terrible morning for Cat.

His poor students are going to suffer today that’s for sure.

On a more serious note in the way Hartlepool turned Blue with a massive swing must be very worrying for Starmer and the Labour Party as a whole.

Sounds very much to me like people are still celebrating Brexit and the way the government have handled the vaccination process.

Yes mistakes have been made along the way but at the end of the day these are the two issues which have won them Hartlepool with an increased majority and I’am pretty sure as the day goes on we’ll see similar results in the local elections.

An interesting few days for Starmer methinks.
 
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straightatthewall said:
I think that encapsulates my thoughts perfectly. We have a thoroughly incompetent party in power and they still look miles more electable than Labour. I don’t really blame Starmer for that, he’s had no chance in the covid era to really attack the government on anything because whatever is said is batted away with ‘nobody could have done better’. That large swathes of the country accept that says as much about the world we live in as anything else, but that’s life.

As you say Going Up, the Scottish situation also doesn’t help Labour.

I’m left with the overwhelming feeling that the United Kingdom deserves a lot better than what we’re currently getting from all our political representatives. Let’s be frank, if Boris is the best of the lot then we’re in a deep deep hole.

As abhorrent as Maggie was to many, at least you knew who she was and what she stood for. And it wasn’t her own gain.

Repsonding directly to the OP, Labour needs to get back to a Blairite style. Centrist policies that appeal to the masses. That’s what the country votes for time and again.
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Yup. If we momentarily park the Iraq elephant in the room .... the reason that Blair was so successful and got re-elected was that HE WAS A GOOD POLITICIAN. Boris is a Ringmaster in the circus, the head clown .... and his moronic audience lap up his wafer thin act.

So yes. The quality of Labour politicians is a massive problem. However, so are the British public. What have we become? The fact that Nigel Farage wasn't run out of town says it all.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
A terrible morning for Cat.

His poor students are going to suffer today that’s for sure.

But in the way Hartlepool remained Blue with an even increased majority must be very worrying for Starmer and the Labour Party as a whole.

Sounds very much to me like people are still celebrating Brexit and the way the government have handled the vaccination process.
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10,000 votes for Farage last time round all went the way of the Tory.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
It will probably take a few more election defeats but at some point we surely must have a progressive alliance between Labour / Lib Dems/ SNP/ Plwyd / Greens where they agree not to field candidates against each other against the Conservative. Then in government the alliance could implement a PR system that should lead to a more cooperative type of government and have another GE fairly quickly.
ATM we have a government supported by roughly 30% of the electorate and it is the same when Labour are in power, is this really the best form of democracy? The system we have renders the vast majority of votes meaningless.
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That's the spirit.

If elections don't go your way then rig the electoral system and make it impossible for anyone you don't like to win power ever again.

If we could just get those pesky gulags back as well with some form of media-friendly name then all our political problems would be solved.
 
At a time when the Tory government should be under intense pressure, astonishingly they're not. Johnson is not PM material in my opinion (and that's being kind) and seems to be involved in one scandal after another. In by elections the sitting government, particularly one with such an inept PM, should be getting wiped off the map. The fact that they're not, just shows how deep the problems are in the Labour party. I don't know what the answer is though. And it looks as though the Labour party itself doesn't have a clue either. It's actually quite sad.
 
20togo said:
It's people like you who have killed off Labour.Your ideologies belong in a time long gone.You now are nothing more than a token of what life was like a hundred years ago. So enjoy wallowing in your bitterness and hatred of the UK. Meanwhile the country free of it's EU shackles will I'm sure continue to rise and prosper.
I'm sure Macron will welcome you to move over to France. You can become a bitter francophile like him. Leave us to wave our flags with pride.
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With this result there might be a few more off here heading to warmer climates. 😂
 
Kip said:
That's the spirit.

If elections don't go your way then rig the electoral system and make it impossible for anyone you don't like to win power ever again.

If we could just get those pesky gulags back as well with some form of media-friendly name then all our political problems would be solved.
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PR is just a more representative form of democracy, some would say that the current system is rigged - get between 30-40% of the vote and get 100% of the power.
 
I’d say the lecturing hectoring wokey ‘values’ virtue signalling mob that have attached themselves to Labour turn off most of middle England and cry racist when the votes don’t arrive with the thickos just not voting the right way.Not likely to change any time soon so more Conservative success in the short and medium term. It’s a contemptuous superior attitude in a different way to the one we know the top tories have and it’s just way less palatable to the British voter.
 
When places like Hartlepool vote in a Tory candidate with a landslide victory, you realise Labour are really paying the price from being hi jacked by the far left AGAIN, dallying about Brexit, plus the usual media brainwashing, which the uninformed seem to buy. As for the Tories repeated bribes & sleaze, it seems people seem to ignore all this when repeatedly told about the vaccination success (I thought the NHS were key in this) so it’s only the last thing that sticks in many peoples minds. Perhaps I’m wrong & we should all strive to grab as much as we can, without any conscience for society in general. I always advocate “why worry about something you can’t do much about” but deep down I do. 😔
 
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straightatthewall said:
I think that encapsulates my thoughts perfectly. We have a thoroughly incompetent party in power and they still look miles more electable than Labour. I don’t really blame Starmer for that, he’s had no chance in the covid era to really attack the government on anything because whatever is said is batted away with ‘nobody could have done better’. That large swathes of the country accept that says as much about the world we live in as anything else, but that’s life.

As you say Going Up, the Scottish situation also doesn’t help Labour.

I’m left with the overwhelming feeling that the United Kingdom deserves a lot better than what we’re currently getting from all our political representatives. Let’s be frank, if Boris is the best of the lot then we’re in a deep deep hole.

As abhorrent as Maggie was to many, at least you knew who she was and what she stood for. And it wasn’t her own gain.

Repsonding directly to the OP, Labour needs to get back to a Blairite style. Centrist policies that appeal to the masses. That’s what the country votes for time and again.
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You are right BUT surely any Party has to have core beliefs that they stand on.....then on that platform they either gain power or don‘t. How can a Party not have any beliefs to the extent that they can say “we’ll move our policies to the centre so we can get into power”........what is the point of gaining that power if you are not going to implement your own core beliefs and policies
 
Agree with quite a few on here - Labour have had many open goals from the Tories in the last few years but are clueless to capitalise on them. Having a strong opposition is vital but we just haven;t got that. I thought Starmer seemed like a good Labour leader when appointed, with his head screwed on and relatively normal. Unfortunately, he's robotic and doesn't have any real and clear policies, and hasn't challenged the Tory government with any passion or convincing commitment.
 
Going Up the Pool said:
Yup. If we momentarily park the Iraq elephant in the room .... the reason that Blair was so successful and got re-elected was that HE WAS A GOOD POLITICIAN. Boris is a Ringmaster in the circus, the head clown .... and his moronic audience lap up his wafer thin act.

So yes. The quality of Labour politicians is a massive problem. However, so are the British public. What have we become? The fact that Nigel Farage wasn't run out of town says it all.
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Typical losing attitude that...blame the “stupid” British public.......do you really wonder why people get elected who call us the Great British Public
 
Ya thats just great just go along taking in all the lies and bullshit from the blond liar if you don't believe just look at what he's done so far ,Irish border ,covid chaos, lieing to the Queen etc etc
 
Going Up the Pool said:
Yup. If we momentarily park the Iraq elephant in the room .... the reason that Blair was so successful and got re-elected was that HE WAS A GOOD POLITICIAN. Boris is a Ringmaster in the circus, the head clown .... and his moronic audience lap up his wafer thin act.

So yes. The quality of Labour politicians is a massive problem. However, so are the British public. What have we become? The fact that Nigel Farage wasn't run out of town says it all.
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And there we have it in a nutshell. The arrogance that people like this think they know better and the people who don’t agree are moronic. As with Brexit they just don’t get it do they. They’ll have to take a leaf out of the Democrats book and steal the election 😜they’ve got a couple of years so perhaps Cat could set it as a homework task, perhaps a big push for multiple registrations in key seats, invite Dominion to tender for the contract etc
 
P t Barnum said:
Ya thats just great just go along taking in all the lies and bullshit from the blond liar if you don't believe just look at what he's done so far ,Irish border ,covid chaos, lieing to the Queen etc etc
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Who you talking to?...the vast majority of the Hartlepool public?
 
Memphisboy said:
And there we have it in a nutshell. The arrogance that people like this think they know better and the people who don’t agree are moronic. As with Brexit they just don’t get it do they. They’ll have to take a leaf out of the Democrats book and steal the election 😜they’ve got a couple of years so perhaps Cat could set it as a homework task, perhaps a big push for multiple registrations in key seats, invite Dominion to tender for the contract etc
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Obviously a Farage fan then eh?
 
no veins bulging whatsoever. Just taking the piss out of you. Seriously, how do you come to terms that a child of yours is serving in the armed forces of a country you hate so much?
 
Bloodtangerine said:
You are right BUT surely any Party has to have core beliefs that they stand on.....then on that platform they either gain power or don‘t. How can a Party not have any beliefs to the extent that they can say “we’ll move our policies to the centre so we can get into power”........what is the point of gaining that power if you are not going to implement your own core beliefs and policies
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You can have core beliefs that are based in socialism without being extreme. The country is centre-left or centre-right. In fact for the vast majority of the last 50+ years, we've been centre-right. That suggests that not every Tory is a right wing bigot who thinks the working class are poor by their own design. It's just 80-90% of them... 😉
 
and what's a valid point about the rise of the SNP in Scotland got to with Labour getting trounced in Hartlepool? .
 
straightatthewall said:
You can have core beliefs that are based in socialism without being extreme. The country is centre-left or centre-right. In fact for the vast majority of the last 50+ years, we've been centre-right. That suggests that not every Tory is a right wing bigot who thinks the working class are poor by their own design. It's just 80-90% of them... 😉
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Yes, this is what is unusual about the current situation, we are not IMO a country of strong left or right wing ideologues. The British way since the Thatcher era has really been about pragmatism, creating a stable environment, muddling through and making the country an easy place to set up and run a business from. This usually involves either a centre right or centre left government who don't try to change too much at once and keep a stable environment. This has produced a strong economy which at one point was the third largest in the world (as good as it can get for a country of our size). However, what neither of the big parties did was to invest sufficiently in the places that got left behind as the country modernised and left a lot of communities feeling marginalised and left out.
 
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Time will tell I suppose, the longer this corrupt, cronyism led bunch are in power then the more uncomfortable truths will emerge about them. Labour on a hiding to nothing as due to the pandemic they have been broadly supportive of the Tories policies - more so than many Tory MPs themselves at times.

The vaccination success story is a wave that Johnson is riding and one that is masking many ills in business, education and society as a whole. An 80 now 81 seat majority is a massive amount to turn around and its not going to be done at the next GE nor probably the one after.

Scottish Independence is going to be a factor, if it happens then any chance Labour have of forming a coalition vanishes, and it gives the Tories another ready made hate figure in the leader of the SNP.

Eventually the Northern Ireland/Welsh/Scottish pigeons will come home to roost as will the long term effects of barriers in trade with our nearest neighbours, which are all conveniently masked by the current World situation.

It’s going to be another long wait in the wilderness for a progressive left leaning party and I guess its up to us who would support such a Government to keep chipping away at the edges and keep highlighting the inequalities, prejudice and dangers of a Nationalist Government.

For those celebrating Tory success, enjoy your day of rubbing our noses in it, I’m sure if the boot was on the other foot then roles would be reversed, and one day they will.
 
England is a one political party nation..that is now clear and it will remain so indefinitely ..it will lead to the break up of the Union at some point in the future that is also now clear..the remaining Labour voters in Scotland hold their noses and vote Nationalist to leave the Union.
 
Bottle said:
An 80 now 81 seat majority is a massive amount to turn around and its not going to be done at the next GE nor probably the one after.
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To turn anything around you have to hold your base. Losing a safe seat with a swing to the government of over 20% is unprecedented and a real disaster for Labour bottle.
 
clappers said:
To turn anything around you have to hold your base. Losing a safe seat with a swing to the government of over 20% is unprecedented and a real disaster for Labour bottle.
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They would have lost it last time but for the split vote for Brexit/Tory parties, which are now one and the same though Clappers.

Labour have been in the wilderness before, they are now and they will be again. But when the winning candidate says it was a vote for “change” when her party has been in power for 10 years, it shows just how much the current crop of “One Nation Conservatives” have moved from the one that started their decade of power!

Some might say the moves to re-Nationalise the rail industry, the furlough scheme and business support packages are quite Socialist looking, especially for such a right leaning party. But soon enough they will revert to type and this is when Labour need to start shouting for the people at the bottom again.
 
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clappers said:
I’d say the lecturing hectoring wokey ‘values’ virtue signalling mob that have attached themselves to Labour turn off most of middle England and cry racist when the votes don’t arrive with the thickos just not voting the right way.Not likely to change any time soon so more Conservative success in the short and medium term. It’s a contemptuous superior attitude in a different way to the one we know the top tories have and it’s just way less palatable to the British voter.
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I think you’ve hit a few nails on the head there Clappers.
 
I find the demise of the Labour party deeply saddening. They are becoming increasingly irrelevant to the electorate and they exhibit little or no insight for why they are becoming an irrelevance. The truth is they have walked away from traditional labour supporters with their i know better attitude and their lack of understanding and empathy for the concerns and needs of those whom once relied on them. I see the corbynistas are demanding Starmer step down. The sad thing is these goons are part of the problem, the hard left never won anything and the momemtum blackshirts and anti-semitism that took a significant hold under corbyn will always be a deep stain on the party. I dearly wish the hard left would form their own party or for the remaining party to disengage and form a new party. The party has to start listening to what is being said to them or it will simply die. Oh for a John Smith or Frank Field as leader, they really would listen and take the fight to the Tories and that nationalist party over the border.
 
Bottle said:
They would have lost it last time but for the split vote for Brexit/Tory parties, which are now one and the same though Clappers.

Labour have been in the wilderness before, they are now and they will be again. But when the winning candidate says it was a vote for “change” when her party has been in power for 10 years, it shows just how much the current crop of “One Nation Conservatives” have moved from the one that started their decade of power!

Some might say the mives to re-Nationalise the rail industry, the furlough scheme and business support packages are quite Socialist looking, especially for such a right leaning party. But soon enough they will revert to type and this is when Labour need to start shouting for the people at the bottom again.
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There's going to be some very tough times ahead. The first cycle will be passed off as an inevitable consequence of covid and will be lapped up as unavoidable. The second cycle will see many turn as it becomes clear that there was never a land of milk and honey outside the EU for the parts of the UK that had been consistently left behind - like Hartlepool.

The schemes like furlough, or quasi-nationalising the rail industry will soon be forgotten as those who did nothing wrong in covid, find themselves on the scrapheap with a government trying to ignore their glare. And the railways will go back to being publicly funded in all but name, whilst making shareholders millions because they're 'private business'. It's ** depressing.
 
Ruperthoop said:
I find the demise of the Labour party deeply saddening. They are becoming increasingly irrelevant to the electorate and they exhibit little or no insight for why they are becoming an irrelevance. The truth is they have walked away from traditional labour supporters with their i know better attitude and their lack of understanding and empathy for the concerns and needs of those whom once relied on them. I see the corbynistas are demanding Starmer step down. The sad thing is these goons are part of the problem, the hard left never won anything and the momemtum blackshirts and anti-semitism that took a significant hold under corbyn will always be a deep stain on the party. I dearly wish the hard left would form their own party or for the remaining party to disengage and form a new party. The party has to start listening to what is being said to them or it will simply die. Oh for a John Smith or Frank Field as leader, they really would listen and take the fight to the Tories and that nationalist party over the border.
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Totally agree with the above quote.
Where is Cats to tell us what went wrong other than it being Boris fault ?
 
Bottle said:
Time will tell I suppose, the longer this corrupt, cronyism led bunch are in power then the more uncomfortable truths will emerge about them. Labour on a hiding to nothing as due to the pandemic they have been broadly supportive of the Tories policies - more so than many Tory MPs themselves at times.
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But Labour have not been broadly supportive of Tory policies have they? That's one of the factors leading to their demise. When did a Labour leader or minister say that Brexit was a good thing? When did they say that the government's coronavirus policies were right? In fact, when did Labour back the government on anything significant? An opposition party can only get so far disagreeing with the party in power. Without any realistic policies of their own they have nothing. Voters are not stupid. They know who is able to run the country and who isn't.
 
The contempt Labour showed to its electorate by putting a Remainer up in a staunch Brexit area tells us all we need to know about the party.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Yep. He’s tickled that, once again, people have been persuaded the Tory Party is out to protect their interests.
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They just keep winning Mex.....why is that?

if they are such easy targets that you personally can rip them apart with your blinding intelligence on this widely read forum then why can’t the might of the Labour Party lay a punch on em?
 
The thing about all of Boris’s misdemeanours is that they should be costing the party votes.
The fact that they aren’t tells you that people aren’t as bothered about the muck slinging at the moment, they need a party that has half a clue what it stands for.
Labour AND it’s supporters believe calling out BJ’s shortcomings is the way to win an election. Really ? That’s lazy at best.
Starmer isn’t going to turn this around. As a guy he seems decent, but the nation is awash with decent fellas. I don’t know exactly what Starmer or the party stand for right now.
They need a leader with gumption and policies to back that up. And the supporters need to lose this idea that anyone who isn’t voting Labour are stupid, deluded or selfish. This outdated attitude is losing even more party votes and garnering none at all.
 
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