Labour Party as Dead as Disco

Last Labour bloke i genuinely liked looked a bit like Bob Hoskins. Can't remember his name but he seemed a decent old school labour type. Not seen one like him for 10 years or more
 
Lala said:
The thing about all of Boris’s misdemeanours is that they should be costing the party votes.
The fact that they aren’t tells you that people aren’t as bothered about the muck slinging at the moment, they need a party that has half a clue what it stands for.
Labour AND it’s supporters believe calling out BJ’s shortcomings is the way to win an election. Really ? That’s lazy at best.
Starmer isn’t going to turn this around. As a guy he seems decent, but the nation is awash with decent fellas. I don’t know exactly what Starmer or the party stand for right now.
They need a leader with gumption and policies to back that up. And the supporters need to lose this idea that anyone who isn’t voting Labour are stupid, deluded or selfish. This outdated attitude is losing even more party votes and garnering none at all.
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Well said Lala particularly the last paragraph.
 
Bloodtangerine said:
Party torn down the middle, has no policies at all, just talks in generalities about winning the public’s trust back.....in what??

Starmer isn’t inspirational and almost certainly will be ousted/resign at some stage in next 12/18 months

Then they will elect a left wing leader or if they don’t another who will be harangued by the left wing as Starmer shortly will be

Surely we need a new more centrist Party to provide the opposition that Democracy relies on. It isn’t healthy to have a one Party state which is to all intents and purposes what we have due to Labour’s total Impotence
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Disco isn’t dead Dua Lipa is making it cool again!
 
Being a little left of Centre, the worst part of this for me is that I will probably never see another Labour Government.
 
  • "In intention, at any rate, the English intelligentsia are Europeanized. They take their cookery from Paris and their opinions from Moscow. In the general patriotism of the country they form a sort of island of dissident thought. England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a poor box."
  • George Orwell England Your England
In Labour's case the left-wing intelligentsia snigger at the working class and traditional Labour voters and consider them racist if they show any patriotism.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
😂 He’s not really.

Actually he’s seething that his day has been ruined. It started so well with the news headlines that he thought he’d post on avftt. And then it all went down hill.

Put him right off his Peroni.
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I’m a happy lad today as the vote just reassures me that the Great British Public know the score.

Mex, I’m a Stella Man btw and will be having a few tonight to celebrate 👍🍺
 
Old_Laytonian said:
  • "In intention, at any rate, the English intelligentsia are Europeanized. They take their cookery from Paris and their opinions from Moscow. In the general patriotism of the country they form a sort of island of dissident thought. England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a poor box."
  • George Orwell England Your England
In Labour's case the left-wing intelligentsia snigger at the working class and traditional Labour voters and consider them racist if they show any patriotism.
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Orwell was a clever lad
 
Recidivist3 said:
It’s lovely to see the cisgender pilgarlic one in such a happy mood on here today 👍
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The fact you look down on me as an old fashioned, bald man looked upon with contempt or mock pity just shows in a nutshell why you are ALWAYS on the losing side BUT still always see yourselves as moral winners 😂😂😂

There’s a lot more of me than you .....as every vote shows every time 👍🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
 
Recidivist3 said:
‘Elsewhere he, (Orwell), describes nationalism more simply as “the lunatic modern habit of identifying oneself with large power units and seeing everything in terms of competitive prestige.”
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He may well have said that Ciddy but I’m too stupid to understand that so prefer the one he said about left wing intellectuals
 
Bloodtangerine said:
The fact you look down on me as an old fashioned, bald man looked upon with contempt or mock pity just shows in a nutshell why you are ALWAYS on the losing side BUT still always see yourselves as moral winners 😂😂😂

There’s a lot more of me than you .....as every vote shows every time 👍🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
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Surely one of ‘you’ is more than plenty and why do loons like you always assume that anti-Tory means pro-Labour

still, good to see you taking the hint and educating yourself after your embarrassing display yesterday 😘
 
Recidivist3 said:
Surely one of ‘you’ is more than plenty and why do loons like you always assume that anti-Tory means pro-Labour

still, good to see you taking the hint and educating yourself after your embarrassing display yesterday 😘
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I haven’t taken any hint and have no embarrassment about anything yesterday Ciddy. In fact I don’t know what you’re on about but please feel free to not tell me 👍
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
They've all been kidnapped by Pierce Brosnan.
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Been thinking about it a bit more and he might actually have been a union leader rather than an MP. Just remember him being interviewed a few times outside Westminster. Maybe pierce was hiding in the bushes to whisk him away
 
Old_Laytonian said:
  • "In intention, at any rate, the English intelligentsia are Europeanized. They take their cookery from Paris and their opinions from Moscow. In the general patriotism of the country they form a sort of island of dissident thought. England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a poor box."
  • George Orwell England Your England
In Labour's case the left-wing intelligentsia snigger at the working class and traditional Labour voters and consider them racist if they show any patriotism.
Click to expand...
You that know he was kind of referring to himself there don't you? It was during the height of the blitz and was wondering how the Nazis would ever be accepted if they took over.

Anyway, I always preferred 'Nationalism is the lunatic modern habit of identifying oneself with large power units and seeing everything in terms of competitive prestige'.
 
Wizaard said:
10,000 votes for Farage last time round all went the way of the Tory.
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Wiz

I come in peace but you have spent a lot of time on here telling us that Sir Nigel has done nothing and playing down his influence on matters.

Now you are telling us that those who previously voted for Sir Nigel in Hartlepool have now voted Conservative and helped turn Hartlepool from red to blue.

That might very well be true but surely it would also mean that Sir Nigel has influenced things ?

For what it's worth, I'd suggest that whilst I believe Sir Nigel to be the most influential politician in UK politics in the 21st century and certainly among the most influential if not the very most, I'd also suggest that Labour's problems lie far deeper than Sir Nigel supporters changing to the Tories as these people were not born as supporters of Sir Nigel and there will have been a time not so long ago when to suggest the Tories could win any by election in Hartlepool would have been ridiculous, nevermind a mid-term by election when they have been in power.
 
bfcpete said:
The bottom line is that the majority of the public don't like extreme politics, either right or left. They prefer a Government that encourages business as well as individual opportunities and improvement, but with some social conscience as well. That was the reason for Blair's success. The problem for Labour is that the Tories may have realised that they have to invest more into the social conscious and levelling up agenda. If they do manage that then Labour will have difficulty coming back. The other problem is leadership. Despite his buffoonery and failings, Boris still resonates with much of the electoral (including traditional Labour supporters) in a way that Keir and the Labour metropolitan elite just can't.
The last problem for Labour is that many of the constituency parties were taken over by the left wing / Momentum when Corbyn was leader. They will always field more left candidates and policies that don't fly anymore. They never properly reviewed why they lost so badly the last general election or just want to ignore the reasons for it
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Good post Pete 👍
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
You that know he was kind of referring to himself there don't you? It was during the height of the blitz and was wondering how the Nazis would ever be accepted if they took over.

Anyway, I always preferred 'Nationalism is the lunatic modern habit of identifying oneself with large power units and seeing everything in terms of competitive prestige'.
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I still don’t understand it but bear in mind this is a a man who lost control of his own Farm to a bunch of animals so he can’t have been that bright can he

Blondey Candy Floss Good

Wallpaper Posery Bad
 
straightatthewall said:
Repsonding directly to the OP, Labour needs to get back to a Blairite style. Centrist policies that appeal to the masses. That’s what the country votes for time and again.
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Blair was a Tory in all but name, Labour under his direction, extended privatisations, reduced access to free education, increased the commercialisation (privatisation) of the NHS, reduced workers rights, increased the freedoms from legislation for big business and the banks, and all the while pushed a religious agenda which allowed creationists and religious fundamentalists to run schools and extended the legislature which created thousads upon thousnads of new laws; and that doesnt even go close to his war-mongering tendencies and he arse licking of Bush.

Labour though is an irrelevance, and I would go as far as saying that the idea of left and right in politics is now irrelevant. The same is happening here in Spain: the leftist colilition national government that is in power is enacting numerous policies that benefit big business over people and the hard left candidate (the dep, PM in the current national coilition) in the madrid elections was so soundly spanked by a female trumpesque moron with some truly odious views, that he has decided to retire from politics and return to academia.

Someone else has said on here that 30% or so of the votes will ensure a hefty majority in parliament and its true. a good 30-35% of people just do not vote, because who can you vote for if you want to have some level of social responsibility / concern. Labour have no policies, and under Corbyn no matter what he said and how much you might have agreed with him, anyone who thought that Dianne Abbot was a candidate for a ministerial job would not have credibility (amongst other things). The liberals are an irrelevance, Greens? as a party they definately have NO policies whatsover.

True labourites carry on voting for labour. True Tory's vote Conservative as do a lot of racist, fascist, nationalists because they know there is more chance of Tory MP's being secretly racist, facist, Anti European nationalists than not, so they get more or less what they want as well, when they dont then they have a range of parties pandering to their needs who are more than happy to gve the Tory's a short-term kicking in exchange for long term gain. The "leftist" factions break off into a multitude of sub-groups, communists, greens, and other social and single issue groups including independence parties.

There is a need for something new, including a complete restructuring of parliament, and a thourough re-understanding of democracy means. but if you are a career politician (and they almost all are now) of any stripe, firstly why would you want to break the system that provides your gainful employment, and secondly where would you even start, bearing in mind that to initiate change firstly you have to gain recognition, which would require party help, and the parties through force of numbers of membership will not fundamentally change.
 
Lala said:
The thing about all of Boris’s misdemeanours is that they should be costing the party votes.
The fact that they aren’t tells you that people aren’t as bothered about the muck slinging at the moment, they need a party that has half a clue what it stands for.
Labour AND it’s supporters believe calling out BJ’s shortcomings is the way to win an election. Really ? That’s lazy at best.
Starmer isn’t going to turn this around. As a guy he seems decent, but the nation is awash with decent fellas. I don’t know exactly what Starmer or the party stand for right now.
They need a leader with gumption and policies to back that up. And the supporters need to lose this idea that anyone who isn’t voting Labour are stupid, deluded or selfish. This outdated attitude is losing even more party votes and garnering none at all.
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LALA

I go with much of that and certainly your sentiment.

I don't like voting for the least chite party and it's unsustainable for the country but it's me that's not happy with Boris's/the Governments lockdown policy and not you so I have now deleted half a page of chite about what you said and I agree with you.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Wiz

I come in peace but you have spent a lot of time on here telling us that Sir Nigel has done nothing and playing down his influence on matters.

Now you are telling us that those who previously voted for Sir Nigel in Hartlepool have now voted Conservative and helped turn Hartlepool from red to blue.

That might very well be true but surely it would also mean that Sir Nigel has influenced things ?

For what it's worth, I'd suggest that whilst I believe Sir Nigel to be the most influential politician in UK politics in the 21st century and certainly among the most influential if not the very most, I'd also suggest that Labour's problems lie far deeper than Sir Nigel supporters changing to the Tories as these people were not born as supporters of Sir Nigel and there will have been a time not so long ago when to suggest the Tories could win any by election in Hartlepool would have been ridiculous, nevermind a mid-term by election when they have been in power.
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I'm saying last time out, the vote was split. This time round Nigels party was a complete irrelevance and the Tories benefited as a consequence.

His new party is just a scam to make money off the gullible. He's irrelevant. If he wasn't, the vote would have been split again and Labour would have won again.

Theres no denying Labour are in deep trouble with an inability to find a sense of identity that voters can relate to.

However, that doesn't mean the Tories are doing well, just that they've been able to get away with it.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
LALA

I go with much of that and certainly your sentiment.

I don't like voting for the least chite party and it's unsustainable for the country but it's me that's not happy with Boris's/the Governments lockdown policy and not you so I have now deleted half a page of chite about what you said and I agree with you.
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😆
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Wiz

I come in peace but you have spent a lot of time on here telling us that Sir Nigel has done nothing and playing down his influence on matters.

Now you are telling us that those who previously voted for Sir Nigel in Hartlepool have now voted Conservative and helped turn Hartlepool from red to blue.

That might very well be true but surely it would also mean that Sir Nigel has influenced things ?

For what it's worth, I'd suggest that whilst I believe Sir Nigel to be the most influential politician in UK politics in the 21st century and certainly among the most influential if not the very most, I'd also suggest that Labour's problems lie far deeper than Sir Nigel supporters changing to the Tories as these people were not born as supporters of Sir Nigel and there will have been a time not so long ago when to suggest the Tories could win any by election in Hartlepool would have been ridiculous, nevermind a mid-term by election when they have been in power.
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I think that the Tory victory in Hartlepool has a lot more to do with the Mayor in Teeside than anyone else. He's had a stunning win in his own right.

As for Farage - he's undoubtedly been influential - his style of golf club saloon bar politics plays well with a certain demographic. But he's not been influential enough to ever get himself elected on his own merit. Which suggests that enough of us still know a wrong 'un when we see one.
 
BWseasider said:
Some very good points in this thread, one I'd like to add is demographics. Boomers have always had a significant demographic advantage over generations older than them, and younger than them. If you trace the baby boomer cohort through the decades, you will see how they're able to influence governments to be favourable to them, from housing to education, often at the expense of other generations.

There's a very good talk about this by Tory peer Lord David Willets - who has some good examples to this effect:


The Labour party has to come up with something that will apply to this demographic which they have polled low with since 2010. Or wait until they die off but that's going to be another 10-20 years.

Like most posters here my issue is I don't really know where Labour stand today. I knew where they stood with Corbyn, for better or worse, but where are they now? The reinvention hasn't happened yet or they haven't done a good job of communicating it.
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Very interesting talk that by Danny Willet and I fundamentally believe he's true in the view that despite their oft-incessant bellyaching, the Boomers are the most entitled and the most awarded generation.

Interesting to hear a Tory call for tax hikes and extra costs on their core voters. Can anyone see it coming true?

Thanks for the link BW - 45 mins well spent listening to that. 👍
 
Costero Poderoso said:
Blair was a Tory in all but name
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Lazy stereotyping that. He wasn't a traditional Labour PM. But he specifically campaigned NOT to be that. He was still a Labour PM and still tried to apply Labour-style social policies. The point is, a centre-left option is Labour's only option at present. The voting public won't vote for anything else. I'd take a centre-left Labour PM over a centre-right/right Tory PM.
 
straightatthewall said:
Very interesting talk that by Danny Willet and I fundamentally believe he's true in the view that despite their oft-incessant bellyaching, the Boomers are the most entitled and the most awarded generation.

Interesting to hear a Tory call for tax hikes and extra costs on their core voters. Can anyone see it coming true?

Thanks for the link BW - 45 mins well spent listening to that. 👍
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Whereas us cynical Generation X types just don't care, we're only here for the drugs.
 
straightatthewall said:
Lazy stereotyping that. He wasn't a traditional Labour PM. But he specifically campaigned NOT to be that. He was still a Labour PM and still tried to apply Labour-style social policies. The point is, a centre-left option is Labour's only option at present. The voting public won't vote for anything else. I'd take a centre-left Labour PM over a centre-right/right Tory PM.
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Agreed, but it’s all gone too far and I can’t see how they are going to change it with the current crop Im afraid.
 
Wizaard said:
I'm saying last time out, the vote was split. This time round Nigels party was a complete irrelevance and the Tories benefited as a consequence.

His new party is just a scam to make money off the gullible. He's irrelevant. If he wasn't, the vote would have been split again and Labour would have won again.

Theres no denying Labour are in deep trouble with an inability to find a sense of identity that voters can relate to.

However, that doesn't mean the Tories are doing well, just that they've been able to get away with it.
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Wiz mode on

I didn't even comment on the performance of the Tories, nevermind suggest that they were doing well.

Wiz mode off

You don't have to like Sir Nigel but he certainly gets discussed enough - in AVFTT and the real world - considering he is so irrelevant.

I'm still saying that Sir Nigel is the most influential politician in UK politics in the 21st century, Brexit has been the biggest political issue - maybe Covid but that wasn't created by a British politician, at least I hope not - and Sir Nigel played a part in ensuring that there was a referendum.

I accept that he might not be the most influential but I feel he has certainly been influential, you think he's irrelevant so we're probably best to leave it there and call it a draw.
 
coppiceman said:
I think that the Tory victory in Hartlepool has a lot more to do with the Mayor in Teeside than anyone else. He's had a stunning win in his own right.

As for Farage - he's undoubtedly been influential - his style of golf club saloon bar politics plays well with a certain demographic. But he's not been influential enough to ever get himself elected on his own merit. Which suggests that enough of us still know a wrong 'un when we see one.
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Coppice

I can't say I'm informed enough to comment on the Mayor.

On Sir Nigel, you accept that he has been influential but whether he has been influential surely can't be measured on electoral success.

Lots of no mark politicians have been elected to serve as MPs in Westminster or have been successfully locally but they are hardly influential and in many cases people might suggest the result would have been the same if you'd stuck the same colour of rosette on anybody else.

We are probably as near as we will ever get to agreeing so maybe I'll leave it there !!!!!!!!!!
 
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straightatthewall said:
Lazy stereotyping that. He wasn't a traditional Labour PM. But he specifically campaigned NOT to be that. He was still a Labour PM and still tried to apply Labour-style social policies. The point is, a centre-left option is Labour's only option at present. The voting public won't vote for anything else. I'd take a centre-left Labour PM over a centre-right/right Tory PM.
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Which labour style policies did Blair implement?
 
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