Less Safe and Less Secure-Brexit going well?

catinstalbans

catinstalbans

Well-known member
So, a Conservative group is calling for Brexit talks to be restarted after the UK has lost access to criminal databases, including a list of wanted people and records of stolen identities. Criminals may not be extradited as the UK is no longer part of the European Arrest Warrant system and has lost influence with Europol.
The group urges the British government to conduct talks to strengthen security cooperation as every day that passes is storing up problems while Boris Johnson's policy appears to be "cross your fingers and hope"
Is it any surprise when this sounds so much like Boris Johnson's Covid strategy throughout 2020, missing 5 COBRA meetings and skiving off to Chequers while the virus took hold in the UK.
 
catinstalbans said:
So, a Conservative group is calling for Brexit talks to be restarted after the UK has lost access to criminal databases, including a list of wanted people and records of stolen identities. Criminals may not be extradited as the UK is no longer part of the European Arrest Warrant system and has lost influence with Europol.
The group urges the British government to conduct talks to strengthen security cooperation as every day that passes is storing up problems while Boris Johnson's policy appears to be "cross your fingers and hope"
Is it any surprise when this sounds so much like Boris Johnson's Covid strategy throughout 2020, missing 5 COBRA meetings and skiving off to Chequers while the virus took hold in the UK.
Click to expand...
Are you on the database ?😯
 
catinstalbans said:
So, a Conservative group is calling for Brexit talks to be restarted after the UK has lost access to criminal databases, including a list of wanted people and records of stolen identities. Criminals may not be extradited as the UK is no longer part of the European Arrest Warrant system and has lost influence with Europol.
The group urges the British government to conduct talks to strengthen security cooperation as every day that passes is storing up problems while Boris Johnson's policy appears to be "cross your fingers and hope"
Is it any surprise when this sounds so much like Boris Johnson's Covid strategy throughout 2020, missing 5 COBRA meetings and skiving off to Chequers while the virus took hold in the UK.
Click to expand...
Lost access to databases?

Can they not just log off switch off at the mains for a minute then reboot the system with a new password?
 
My view is this will get resolved and pretty quickly. It works both ways - EU need access to British database records too as we have our decent share of ‘wrong’uns’ as any visit to the South of Spain will attest.

It makes good headlines, but from a practical point of view an agreement to share data will be agreed and imminently.
We will implement the same solution that we have with non Eu countries and in reverse also.
 
Meanwhile Farage is spreading disinformation about the "EU Human Rights Act" which doesn't actually exist. What he means is withdrawing from the ECHR. That's nothing to do with the EU of course.

It also shows the way the new party means to go, along with his views on the privatisation of the NHS.
 
Did you know an interesting fact that going back a few years there was an investigation by MI5 into communists infiltrating the teaching profession. Up to 750 of them I believe. .
 
20togo said:
Did you know an interesting fact that going back a few years there was an investigation by MI5 into communists infiltrating the teaching profession. Up to 750 of them I believe.
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I believe this came out around the time that is was rumoured Oystonites were running BSA, or at least those willing to listen and go to meetings when told. Still, every organisation has it's bad eggs.
 
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20togo said:
Did you know an interesting fact that going back a few years there was an investigation by MI5 into communists infiltrating the teaching profession. Up to 750 of them I believe. .
Click to expand...

How Britain’s Nazi-loving press baron made the case for Hitler

The Daily Mail was once the country's highest selling newspaper, but owner Lord Rothermere was more concerned with 'Bolshevik troublemakers' than an impending genocide
www.timesofisrael.com www.timesofisrael.com

The press were infiltrated by the right and continue to be so.
 
catinstalbans said:
So, a Conservative group is calling for Brexit talks to be restarted after the UK has lost access to criminal databases, including a list of wanted people and records of stolen identities. Criminals may not be extradited as the UK is no longer part of the European Arrest Warrant system and has lost influence with Europol.
Click to expand...

This is a very interesting topic and a true test of whether the EU is more interested in EU security or punishing the UK. This is because any lack of information to the UK on anti-terrorism is an increased risk for the whole of Europe. It makes nothing but common sense, therefore, for Europe and the UK to exchange information. Failure to do so is purely political and a serious risk to lives whether in the UK or on the mainland.

Another point is that the UK is now, for the first time, entitled to block entry to, or deport, anyone it chooses, including the 3000+ convicted EU murderers, rapists and child molesters presently roaming our streets who the UK was previously bound by EU rules to allow access.
 
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20togo said:
Did you know an interesting fact that going back a few years there was an investigation by MI5 into communists infiltrating the teaching profession. Up to 750 of them I believe. .
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1949, hey 20’s. I believe that they were inspired to investigate by your angry letter to The Times

it did get me wondering what the current attitude is towards teachers who are members of the British Communist Party teaching in UK schools

interesting little article below

Schools in England told not to use material from anti-capitalist groups | Education | The Guardian

Idea categorised as ‘extreme political stance’ equivalent to endorsing illegal activity
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
IF YOU CRITICISE ANYTHING IN THIS COUNTRY YOU'RE A TRAITOR WHO WANTS TO LIVE IN CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA.
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Why are you so angry all the time ?
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
I believe this came out around the time that is was rumoured Oystonites were running BSA, or at least those willing to listen and go to meetings when told. Still, every organisation has it's bad eggs.
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You getting a bit uptight, fy8?
 
20togo said:
Yep, I dare say you're right, although I know you're very left. A lot of people with [not] so hidden agendas eh. 👍
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If I'm considered very left, that should be worrying for the centre ground and indicates the country had shifted so far right it's scary. Prior to Blair I've voted Tory and been a central floating voter pretty much all my life. Yes I'm very vocal in my disgust for this populist seeking, lying bunch of corrupt conmen in charge. If they were decent, honest people who had our best interests at heart, I could and would accept a difference of political opinion. They are opportunist liars who've packed the cabinet with talentless fools. I rated Greg Clarke and Grieve, politicians with a fair intellect who have been sidelined by the likes of Priti Patel. If that makes me a raving communist so be it.
 
Tangojoe said:
This is a very interesting topic and a true test of whether the EU is more interested in EU security or punishing the UK. This is because any lack of information to the UK on anti-terrorism is an increased risk for the whole of Europe. It makes nothing but common sense, therefore, for Europe and the UK to exchange information. Failure to do so is purely political and a serious risk to lives whether in the UK or on the mainland.

Another point is that the UK is now, for the first time, entitled to block entry to, or deport, anyone it chooses, including the 3000+ convicted EU murderers, rapists and child molesters presently roaming our streets who the UK was previously bound by EU rules to allow access.
Click to expand...
The last part is a lie. The UK was always able to refuse entry to anyone with a criminal record. The reason many got through was a lack of checking due to cuts by the Tories to the Border Force.
Now of course it will be because we don't know who the criminals are.
 
Tangojoe said:
This is a very interesting topic and a true test of whether the EU is more interested in EU security or punishing the UK. This is because any lack of information to the UK on anti-terrorism is an increased risk for the whole of Europe. It makes nothing but common sense, therefore, for Europe and the UK to exchange information. Failure to do so is purely political and a serious risk to lives whether in the UK or on the mainland.

Another point is that the UK is now, for the first time, entitled to block entry to, or deport, anyone it chooses, including the 3000+ convicted EU murderers, rapists and child molesters presently roaming our streets who the UK was previously bound by EU rules to allow access.
Click to expand...
I agree with the general sentiment but sadly we've gone from being an ally where we worked in harmony to a competitor so that will make everything subject to negotiation and the rule of supply and demand.

It might not be as big a deal as we think. The big criminals don't work inside the system anyway so probably do most of their work under different names. The Albanian mafia already run most of the UK drug trade so I don't think that will change with or without any agreements or databases.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
I agree with the general sentiment but sadly we've gone from being an ally where we worked in harmony to a competitor so that will make everything subject to negotiation and the rule of supply and demand.

It might not be as big a deal as we think. The big criminals don't work inside the system anyway so probably do most of their work under different names. The Albanian mafia already run most of the UK drug trade so I don't think that will change with or without any agreements or databases.
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I'm not sure the EU wants to get into a security competition with the UK do they? That would include the military and military intelligence as well presumably.

We're still an ally of the EU - probably the biggest ally they have - so it would be worrying if they didn't consider us so.
 
Our intelligence services are very good; why would they really want not to share?

The first terrorist attach which happens when we don't share that we knew it was going to happen will change a few minds.

Let's hope we can take a sensible approach; if not, lives will be lost.
 
Seems that some people on here have forgotten or aren’t aware of this. First reported in the Guardian tho’ I’ve pasted the gammon press version for obvious reasons

www.dailymail.co.uk

Britain failed to tell EU countries about 75,000 crimes

The error went undetected for five years, during which one in three alerts on offenders which would have been sent from the police national computer to the EU, were not delivered.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
catinstalbans said:
The last part is a lie. The UK was always able to refuse entry to anyone with a criminal record. The reason many got through was a lack of checking due to cuts by the Tories to the Border Force. Now of course it will be because we don't know who the criminals are.
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Has anyone ever told you that you debate like a child.

A more adult approach would be to state that you disagree and then give reasons for your contrary opinion.
 
So why make false statements ( i.e. lies)
In the meantime, Boris Johnson appoints the man he sent over to negotiate " Britain breaking free from unelected beaurocrats" to be an unelected beaurocrat and an unelected member of the government to boot.
 
catinstalbans said:
The last part is a lie. The UK was always able to refuse entry to anyone with a criminal record. The reason many got through was a lack of checking due to cuts by the Tories to the Border Force.
Now of course it will be because we don't know who the criminals are.
Click to expand...

Not only is Tangojoe not telling lies, he is understating the problem of foreign criminals on the streets of the UK. Home Office figures show that 9,400 recorded foreign criminals are living in the UK while attempts to deport them have failed. And this is only criminals who have served sentences and remain here. This is the highest ever figure and is far less than the true number of criminals who have not served sentences but have moved here as EU nationals. If the EU knows this and fails to pass this information to the UK government, then murders or rapes committed by them is blood on the EU's hands.
 
Tangojoe said:
This is a very interesting topic and a true test of whether the EU is more interested in EU security or punishing the UK. This is because any lack of information to the UK on anti-terrorism is an increased risk for the whole of Europe. It makes nothing but common sense, therefore, for Europe and the UK to exchange information. Failure to do so is purely political and a serious risk to lives whether in the UK or on the mainland.

Another point is that the UK is now, for the first time, entitled to block entry to, or deport, anyone it chooses, including the 3000+ convicted EU murderers, rapists and child molesters presently roaming our streets who the UK was previously bound by EU rules to allow access.
Click to expand...
catinstalbans said:
The last part is a lie. The UK was always able to refuse entry to anyone with a criminal record. The reason many got through was a lack of checking due to cuts by the Tories to the Border Force.
Now of course it will be because we don't know who the criminals are.
Click to expand...

Not only is Tangojoe not "telling lies", he is understating the problem of foreign criminals on the streets of the UK. Home Office figures show that 9,400 recorded foreign criminals are living in the UK while attempts to deport them have failed. And this is only criminals who have served sentences and remain here. This is the highest ever figure and is far less than the true number of criminals who have not served sentences but have moved here as EU nationals. If the EU knows this and fails to pass this information to the UK government, then murders or rapes committed by them are blood on the EU's hands.
 
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So does that mean that your beloved party is not the success on law and order you would have us believe.
Even the racist Farage admits that many of the foreign criminals in this country are down to our lack of border checks -he cites an Albanian drug lord who keeps getting deported but manages to get back into the country seemingly at will, despite 10 years of Conservative government's. It is a UK failure-nothing to do with the EU.
 
tangerinenotorange said:
If the EU knows this and fails to pass this information to the UK government, then murders or rapes committed by them are blood on the EU's hands.
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‘The UK failed to tell the EU about 75,000 crimes committed by foreign criminals on British soil and then covered up the scandal amid fears of damaging its reputation abroad, it has emerged.

The error went undetected for five years, during which one in three alerts on offenders which would have been sent from the police national computer to EU authorities were not delivered - potentially including rape and murder cases.

This means dangerous foreign offenders once released from prison could return to their home countries without local authorities being aware of their presence’

Care to comment TNO
 
catinstalbans said:
The last part is a lie. The UK was always able to refuse entry to anyone with a criminal record. The reason many got through was a lack of checking due to cuts by the Tories to the Border Force.
Now of course it will be because we don't know who the criminals are.
Click to expand...
Don’t you mean the whole of your post is a lie?

www.gov.uk

Home Office announces tougher criminality rules for EU citizens

From January 2021, EU criminals could be barred from entering the UK under tougher border rules.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

The UK, under EU Law, wasn’t always able to refuse entry to the UK by criminals - Stop telling lies.

It wasn’t even guaranteed murderers and rapists could be stopped! But they can now, thanks to Brexit - Those are the facts.

Your credibility must be fast dwindling, when your lies are so easily exposed.
 
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catinstalbans said:
The last part is a lie. The UK was always able to refuse entry to anyone with a criminal record. The reason many got through was a lack of checking due to cuts by the Tories to the Border Force.
Now of course it will be because we don't know who the criminals are.
Click to expand...
Wrong, it was almost impossible to deport an Eu citizen for any reason, regardless of their crimes.
 
tangerinenotorange said:
Not only is Tangojoe not telling lies, he is understating the problem of foreign criminals on the streets of the UK. Home Office figures show that 9,400 recorded foreign criminals are living in the UK while attempts to deport them have failed. And this is only criminals who have served sentences and remain here. This is the highest ever figure and is far less than the true number of criminals who have not served sentences but have moved here as EU nationals. If the EU knows this and fails to pass this information to the UK government, then murders or rapes committed by them is blood on the EU's hands.
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Any comment on the articles at posts 29 and 44?
 
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Recidivist3 said:
‘The UK failed to tell the EU about 75,000 crimes committed by foreign criminals on British soil and then covered up the scandal amid fears of damaging its reputation abroad, it has emerged.

The error went undetected for five years, during which one in three alerts on offenders which would have been sent from the police national computer to EU authorities were not delivered - potentially including rape and murder cases. This means dangerous foreign offenders once released from prison could return to their home countries without local authorities being aware of their presence’

Care to comment TNO
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Mexboroseasider said:
Any comment on the articles at posts 29 and 44?
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What do you want me to say? Because of a ‘software glitch’ the UK Britain failed to tell the EU about crimes by foreign criminals. Any lack of cross-border intelligence sharing affects the safety of everyone in Europe and is wrong. What the EU is now planning to do is intentionally refuse to pass information to the UK police and intelligence. That’s obviously worse than accidentally doing so. However, I don’t believe there is any excuse whatsoever for a national authority, European or global, to refuse to share security information, particularly on terrorist risks.

With regard to the situation reported in the link. If the European Directive says “previous criminal convictions shall not in themselves constitute grounds for taking such measures” (ie preventing free movement within the EU) then that’s wrong too. The USA, Australia and many other countries take a much stricter approach. Convicted criminals should have to prove their suitability to enter and reside in the UK. The fall back provision of the Directive allowing convicted criminals to be excluded from entry on a case-by-case basis "if they present a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat affecting one of the fundamental interests of society” is less than worthless unless proceedings are going to be held in respect of every person applying to enter the UK. Even if it were, how do you quantify "presenting a genuine, present threat"? The onus should be on the individual to demonstrate he's not a risk, not on the authorities to prove he is. Fortunately, from 1 January the UK can now apply more practicable and targeted system of vetting persons entering the country.
 
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I'm under the impression that it is the UK that has chosen not be part of the EU.
Then made demands that it should still have all the privileges.

www.theguardian.com

UK making 'impossible demands' over Europol database in EU talks

Leaked German government report shows Britain has been requesting special access
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

And the second part of your statement just shows that the government had the power to exclude if it chose to use it. The fact that they decided not to is a matter of policy not of capability.
 
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Ah, I see cat lurking in a antibrexit boris bashing thread. What a surprise. Do you even like football or have anything else remotely interesting to talk about?
 
tangerinenotorange said:
What do you want me to say? Because of a ‘software glitch’ the UK Britain failed to tell the EU about crimes by foreign criminals. Any lack of cross-border intelligence sharing affects the safety of everyone in Europe and is wrong. What the EU is now planning to do is intentionally refuse to pass information to the UK police and intelligence. That’s obviously worse than accidentally doing so. However, I don’t believe there is any excuse whatsoever for a national authority, European or global, to refuse to share security information, particularly on terrorist risks.

With regard to the situation reported in the link. If the European Directive says “previous criminal convictions shall not in themselves constitute grounds for taking such measures” (ie preventing free movement within the EU) then that’s wrong too. The USA, Australia and many other countries take a much stricter approach. Convicted criminals should have to prove their suitability to enter and reside in the UK. The fall back provision of the Directive allowing convicted criminals to be excluded from entry on a case-by-case basis "if they present a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat affecting one of the fundamental interests of society” is less than worthless unless proceedings are going to be held in respect of every person applying to enter the UK. Even if it were, how do you quantify "presenting a genuine, present threat"? The onus should be on the individual to demonstrate he's not a risk, not on the authorities to prove he is. Fortunately, from 1 January the UK can now apply more practicable and targeted system of vetting persons entering the country.
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My understanding is that EU countries share data. My further understanding is that we are not in the EU.

Brexit means Brexit. Deal with it.
 
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