Lucy Letby

Lytham_fy8 said:
There's definitely sufficient doubt about the prosecution case.
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I think this is the thing, nobody is commenting on her guilt as such, more highlighting the validity, or invalidity in this case, of some of the evidence used. And as you say, sufficient enough to warrant doubt.
 
Lala said:
I think this is the thing, nobody is commenting on her guilt as such, more highlighting the validity, or invalidity in this case, of some of the evidence used. And as you say, sufficient enough to warrant doubt.
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Circumstantially with incidents at two Hospitals, numerous colleagues and Consultants aware of things wrong and attributed to her, and the physical removal of critical equipment when she was on the ward, suggests that even without firm forensic evidence, she is guilty as hell.
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
Circumstantially with incidents at two Hospitals, numerous colleagues and Consultants aware of things wrong and attributed to her, and the physical removal of critical equipment when she was on the ward, suggests that even without firm forensic evidence, she is guilty as hell.
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Probably so, but there's enough questioning of the evidence, how it was presented and what wasn't presented to suggest that a retrial should be considered.
 
Delfino said:
Probably so, but there's enough questioning of the evidence, how it was presented and what wasn't presented to suggest that a retrial should be considered.
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Don't think she will get one, although it would probably put to bed if there was a slight chance she was innocent.
 
She's being re-interviewed over further potential deaths from her 'placements'.
From experience the Police obviously are pretty convinced that she was involved.

For clarification of some of the circumstantial evidence, I found this, and its pretty damning:

The inquiry previously heard that the dislodgement of breathing tubes, which was how Letby tried to kill Child K, generally occurs on less than 1% of shifts.

However, it happened on 40% of shifts that Letby worked when she was a trainee.
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
She's being re-interviewed over further potential deaths from her 'placements'.
From experience the Police obviously are pretty convinced that she was involved.

For clarification of some of the circumstantial evidence, I found this, and its pretty damning:

The inquiry previously heard that the dislodgement of breathing tubes, which was how Letby tried to kill Child K, generally occurs on less than 1% of shifts.

However, it happened on 40% of shifts that Letby worked when she was a trainee.
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That claim was never presented as evidence at her trial and has not been properly tested. Here's a Reddit thread pointing out possible weaknesses in the claim Reddit

Much, if not all, of the available evidence that was presented at her trial does not appear to stand up to scrutiny or has more plausible alternative explanations.
 
Here's a statistical debunking of the "40%" tube dislodgement claim on the Wordpress site circularityandbias: Not what it seems

This claim is typical of much of the case against Letby. It seems superficially convincing, if circumstantial. But when subjected to scrutiny by someone who knows what they are talking about, it collapses.
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
The inquiry previously heard that the dislodgement of breathing tubes, which was how Letby tried to kill Child K, generally occurs on less than 1% of shifts.

However, it happened on 40% of shifts that Letby worked when she was a trainee.
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That 1% number as reported by the BBC was dislodgements per baby per nurse on shift, as explained in Milo’s link. The “unit” reported is incomprehensible.

Therefore if there were 7 babies in the ICU and 7 nurses on duty during a period of say 98 shifts (49 days x two 12 hrs shifts or 33 days x three 8 hrs) then the total number of dislodgements were divided by 49 ! (7 babies x 7 nurses).

Even if there were total 49 dislodgements, ie at least 1 per day, then the value would 49/49 =1. That is a value of 1 per 98 shifts, funnily enough, about 1%, for a dislodgement occurring every single day. These “statistics” are not to be trusted by laymen unless wholly explained as to their very strange derivation.
 
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Since she got arrested and taken off nursing duties the question is has the death rate of babies changed at the hospital? It must be relatively

easy to compare the death rates before, during, and after she worked there, and as long as there hasn't been a major change in working

practices or staffing levels to determine if she was the cause.
 
Moddey Dhoo said:
That 1% number as reported by the BBC was dislodgements per baby per nurse on shift, as explained in Milo’s link. The “unit” reported is incomprehensible.

Therefore if there were 7 babies in the ICU and 7 nurses on duty during a period of say 98 shifts (49 days x two 12 hrs shifts or 33 days x three 8 hrs) then the total number of dislodgements were divided by 49 ! (7 babies x 7 nurses).

Even if there were total 49 dislodgements, ie at least 1 per day, then the value would 49/49 =1. That is a value of 1 per 98 shifts, funnily enough, about 1%, for a dislodgement occurring every single day. These “statistics” are not to be trusted by laymen unless wholly explained as to their very strange derivation.
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Statistics, and we know how accurate they are
 
We don't need this thread. Was she, wasn't she guilty? It's pruriant, lazy shite. The woman has been found guilty and she will spend her life in prison. I'd rather never hear of her again.
 
Danny Ocean said:
Since she got arrested and taken off nursing duties the question is has the death rate of babies changed at the hospital? It must be relatively

easy to compare the death rates before, during, and after she worked there, and as long as there hasn't been a major change in working

practices or staffing levels to determine if she was the cause.
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The death rate on the neonatal unit did appear to change when she left in 2016. However, as has been widely reported: "... about the same time, the hospital downgraded its neonatal unit and stopped taking very premature babies who were at high risk of dying." The unit was could no longer take babies younger than 32 weeks (there is an argument that it never should have taken those most vulnerable babies anyway, as it was not suitable). They also reduced the number of babies it could take.
But even if this had not happened, a simple death rate comparison does not help much, because correlation is not causation.
 
My wife went to University with a woman who now makes a career by being a health professional witness. That seems all wrong.
 
There’s certainly some question marks over this case but if she isn’t guilty then why the complete lack of emotion or remorse? She’s cold and dead behind the eyes.
 
bfcpete said:
The expert has made a statement today that he hasn't changed his opinion on the 3 cases. He has also criticised Letby's barrister, saying he has never had any contact with him.
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Proper odd statement by the defence barrister in light of the experts response. Someones telling porkies
 
I was never really convinced that Lucy Letby was a multi serial killer of babies.

She’s been cleared of any insanity or mental instability so why should she kill 7 babies and try to kill 7 more?

Before her arrest she was described as an excellent nurse who loved doing her job.

Lots of things just didn’t add up for me at her trial and still don’t today.
 
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Looks like the prosecution have purposely misled the jury by misreporting the cause of death in some cases. That’s quite shocking.

It just looks like a case where they have tried to fit the evidence around an individual to me, but also lied along the way, with no concrete evidence at all.
 
EdgeleyTangerine said:
If she’s not responsible then who is? Is it an individuals failings or the teams/hospital in general?
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Natural causes or bad medical care the expert panel claims. They stated that they did not find any evidence of murder, and evidence stated as fact at the trial were not facts at all.
 
Seasideforever said:
And this from the very best doctors in the world ,no evidence of any of the cases being murder !!!
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They are categorically saying to the parents that their babies weren’t murdered and they hope this brings them some closure.
This is absolutey shocking. Badly run hospital looking for a scapegoat and a prosecution twisting all the facts and evidence.
If LL has her convictions overturned, as she probably will, then there should be a few others in the dock for negligence and perjury, amongst other things.
 
Lucy Letbys' defence team at her trials appear to have dropped the ball & let her down, by not producing experts to dispute the very complex medical evidence.
For a well educated young woman, with no previous convictions, who was facing a mountain of 'evidence', not to confess any wrong doing at all, is very unusual in itself.
Let justice take its course. But if LL is innocent, this will be one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in our history.
 
One of the babies that Letby was accused of murdering apparently died because one of the doctors stuck a needle through his liver in an incompetent attempt to relieve abdominal bloating, allegedly. Coincidentally, one of the two doctors who first accused Letby of being a murderer.
 
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Whilst I think she is in all probability guilty there is so much about this that deserves looking at again IMO, so I would think there is definitely a case for an appeal, a retrial or at the very least some kind of a review of the decision not to allow an appeal.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
We don't need this thread. Was she, wasn't she guilty? It's pruriant, lazy shite. The woman has been found guilty and she will spend her life in prison. I'd rather never hear of her again.
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That makes sense - a real possibility of a pretty big miscarriage carriage of justice and you would rather never hear again.

Glad for you, it’s not you in that situation!!

This need looking at again.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
We don't need this thread. Was she, wasn't she guilty? It's pruriant, lazy shite. The woman has been found guilty and she will spend her life in prison. I'd rather never hear of her again.
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Ridiculous, so we should just forget about her now? It’s becoming clear that she was a patsy for the hospital and the head doctors but we should just let her rot, oh bravo
 
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Moddey Dhoo said:
One of the babies that Letby was accused of murdering apparently died because one of the doctors stuck a needle through his liver in an incompetent attempt to relieve abdominal bloating, allegedly. Coincidentally, one of the two doctors who had first accused Letby of being a murderer.
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I have a feeling this might end up being how the whole thing came about. People above her seem to have run a shambles and found a minion scapegoat to get off the hook themselves.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I am not sure about that.
Other evidence that is irrefutable, found in her flat;
www.bbc.com

Lucy Letby trial: Nurse's notes found in home search released

Images of notes found in Lucy Letby's home after her arrest on suspicion of murder are made public.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
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In court it came out that when she expressed great stress in her work, she was advised by her HR manager to write out all her feelings and fears as part of some ad hoc psychotherapy. That worked out well for her… not.
 
Some of the senior staff will be sweating at the thought of Letby potentially being let off. If it wasn’t her then it’s on them! I’d be furious if I was a parent or relative of one of the victims.
 
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