Make do and mend!

Curryman

Well-known member
I know very well that I will get a proverbial kicking for what I'm going to post here, which is quite long, but, it has to be said.

As one of the older generation , born just after WW2, I was brought up in a time where people had to 'make do, and mend', some on here will not understand that phrase as we now have slipped away from that era and become a consumer society, one that uses something a couple of times and then rejects it, or should I say dumps it.

I can remember having a mother who darned socks , mended seams and patched things up, and have a wife who is also very capable of doing the same thing.

I can remember having a mother who cooked wholesome meals, who shopped daily to find the best bargains and served up food that was wholesome and tasty. I have a wife who does the same , shopping apart, which is done a couple of times a week.

I remember my father working long hours and not seeing him very much due to his work ethic, as a professional entertainer and sportsman, he wasn't particularly well paid, but we survived.

My wife can tell a similar story

We are now a pensioners, and have been for a number of years, who are and still are aware , especially after what occurred in the seventies era with inflation, the dangers of overspending , overstretching finances and saving a little to help in times of stress.

Our first home, after renting and scraping together enough for a deposit, was rather run down, No central heating, no double glazing, coal fires and a number of areas where floor board needed changing. We had enough money to buy a hall/stair carpet, but all other carpets and most furniture was either hand me downs or from the salesroom that used to be next to the south station on Waterloo Road. We, however, managed and gradually improved the property. No car, that had been sold to help fund the improvements to the living conditions. No holidays, they were spent decorating and replacing floor boards etc. But, we survived.

We, as parents, instilled into our children the need to be prudent when looking at property etc, the basics of cooking and making do and mending, where possible, rather than buying afresh and throwing out, and I feel we have done a reasonable job in our joint efforts.

Last night, after watching the Lionesses' make the semi finals the news, as per usual reported on the number of families on low incomes who are now struggling to make ends meet, and it struck me that when talking to them they obviously hadn't considered or been taught the basic skills that we were, when growing up.

There was one poor young woman who was disabled and required speciality medicines and frequent visits to London from Derby, and who was living with her parents, both pensioners, who was concerned about her being able to afford the travel to and from the capital as well as the cost of the medicines being prescribed. My heart went out to her and she deserves all the help that she needs, in order to live a reasonable life.

Two other families though, were a completely different kettle of fish. The first was a Teacher, whose wife was a trainee Nurse and they appeared to have one little girl, what their income was I can only guess, but it appeared that they had most of the home comforts in their well appointed dwelling, how much of it was on tick, again I don't know. It did appear that the house was rented and they were about to move back to live with their parents, due to the rent being too high. Did they consider this when entering the agreement or had they stretched their budget to keep up with the Jones's?

The second couple, from memory, were a family of four, again a well furnished, comfortable house. The father, who did the talking was bemoaning the fact that they could no longer have as many takeaways as previously purchased and less nights out. Now I'm sorry but I can, in no way, accept that what they were experiencing could be classed as hardship. Get the pans out, get the cooking done and be positive instead of bemoaning the fact that the whole world is against you at this time.

We are personally making savings, cutting back on spending, repairing and making do with things, walking rather than using the car, not attending pre season games, cutting out away games, although all games are away for me, and so on, and due to our prudence over the years are actually managing to pay for a week in Whitby for the family, self catering.

No doubt a lot will have completely different views to me on this subject, and I am the first to admit that things are presently tough for a number of people and will be tougher once electricity and gas bills increase when the colder weather kicks in, but, I still feel the lessons learned by some of the older generation should be used as guidance for the younger generation.

Life never was, and never will be, a bowl of cherries, and the sooner some realise that the easier it will become for all of us.

Curryman retreats to a safe distance with flak jacket and tin helmet on.
 
You make a lot of reasonable points Wilf.

As for todays ‘take away’ culture, we had one a year on our birthday and this was only from age 12 upwards and if my parents could stretch to it.

I had a happy healthy upbringing in a working class family with just the basics and treats at Christmas and Birthdays only. Did me no harm at all.

We need to reassess priorities, or you do if you are struggling financially but still paying for a lot of what should be considered luxury items.

This doesn’t mean people aren’t struggling, many are, but many also just need to re-prioritise financially.

BTW I’ve just bagged a load of clothes for charity and uploaded another load to sell on eBay 👍 We all have to be sensible and cut out cloth and make savings where we can.
 
Goodness CM that must have taken a while to pen! Can I assume you are retired?! Great post tho.

We are all the product of our time and ergo of our upbringing. Values can and should be taught by parents but we don’t all have stable families or stable parents. The society we have chosen favours the acquisition of shiny new things and chases comfort (guilty).

Only significant ie life changing, events result in societal shifts.There would have been Ukrainians living the Western consumer driven lifestyle and the poor sods have had that ripped away from them. Their priorities have now been realigned.

As individuals, parents, grandparents etc its up to us to do the right thing as we see it and hope that those starting out can absorb a decent value system.
Govt should lead but hasn’t done for many a year.

Unfettered capitalism which is what we seem to have, tho I’m no economist 😅, has a lot to answer for.
 
There's some interesting points in the OP but in no particular order:

We've built a ponzi scheme of an economy which relies on consumption of every more limited natural resources
We've ensured that, in the pursuit of home ownership, an income which relies on generally two wages coming in, whilst privatising bringing up our children through nursery.
We've underpinned cheap labour through the taxation system whilst corporate profits have ballooned.
We're living through an unprecedented period where the profits of labour have been lining the pockets of a tiny minority

Standards of living should rise, otherwise we'd still be living in a cave, or sending kids up chimneys, or the poor to work houses.

Yes some will live beyond their means and make life choices which are difficult to understand, but the vast majority of us, just want to be able to live a comfortable life - and for most people that's becoming something of a struggle, and for some, it's an impossibility.
 
Good post Curryman. All that you say is fair but I have come to realise that ultimately, the world moves on as we grow older and slow down. Consequently, we are out of step with the way people behave. We can see the sense in what we think but it becomes increasingly difficult to expect others to see sense in the same way. Buying expensive cups of coffee at a Costa when at work - why not take a jar and make it yourself in the kitchen? Buying packs of expensive sandwiches - make them at home and take them into work. We actually tear blank sheets of paper out of magazines to use for shopping lists. My wife keeps good quality wrapping paper that gifts arrive in. It's a way of life that won't fade out completely but it will become less prevalent.
 
I know very well that I will get a proverbial kicking for what I'm going to post here, which is quite long, but, it has to be said.

As one of the older generation , born just after WW2, I was brought up in a time where people had to 'make do, and mend', some on here will not understand that phrase as we now have slipped away from that era and become a consumer society, one that uses something a couple of times and then rejects it, or should I say dumps it.

I can remember having a mother who darned socks , mended seams and patched things up, and have a wife who is also very capable of doing the same thing.

I can remember having a mother who cooked wholesome meals, who shopped daily to find the best bargains and served up food that was wholesome and tasty. I have a wife who does the same , shopping apart, which is done a couple of times a week.

I remember my father working long hours and not seeing him very much due to his work ethic, as a professional entertainer and sportsman, he wasn't particularly well paid, but we survived.

My wife can tell a similar story

We are now a pensioners, and have been for a number of years, who are and still are aware , especially after what occurred in the seventies era with inflation, the dangers of overspending , overstretching finances and saving a little to help in times of stress.

Our first home, after renting and scraping together enough for a deposit, was rather run down, No central heating, no double glazing, coal fires and a number of areas where floor board needed changing. We had enough money to buy a hall/stair carpet, but all other carpets and most furniture was either hand me downs or from the salesroom that used to be next to the south station on Waterloo Road. We, however, managed and gradually improved the property. No car, that had been sold to help fund the improvements to the living conditions. No holidays, they were spent decorating and replacing floor boards etc. But, we survived.

We, as parents, instilled into our children the need to be prudent when looking at property etc, the basics of cooking and making do and mending, where possible, rather than buying afresh and throwing out, and I feel we have done a reasonable job in our joint efforts.

Last night, after watching the Lionesses' make the semi finals the news, as per usual reported on the number of families on low incomes who are now struggling to make ends meet, and it struck me that when talking to them they obviously hadn't considered or been taught the basic skills that we were, when growing up.

There was one poor young woman who was disabled and required speciality medicines and frequent visits to London from Derby, and who was living with her parents, both pensioners, who was concerned about her being able to afford the travel to and from the capital as well as the cost of the medicines being prescribed. My heart went out to her and she deserves all the help that she needs, in order to live a reasonable life.

Two other families though, were a completely different kettle of fish. The first was a Teacher, whose wife was a trainee Nurse and they appeared to have one little girl, what their income was I can only guess, but it appeared that they had most of the home comforts in their well appointed dwelling, how much of it was on tick, again I don't know. It did appear that the house was rented and they were about to move back to live with their parents, due to the rent being too high. Did they consider this when entering the agreement or had they stretched their budget to keep up with the Jones's?

The second couple, from memory, were a family of four, again a well furnished, comfortable house. The father, who did the talking was bemoaning the fact that they could no longer have as many takeaways as previously purchased and less nights out. Now I'm sorry but I can, in no way, accept that what they were experiencing could be classed as hardship. Get the pans out, get the cooking done and be positive instead of bemoaning the fact that the whole world is against you at this time.

We are personally making savings, cutting back on spending, repairing and making do with things, walking rather than using the car, not attending pre season games, cutting out away games, although all games are away for me, and so on, and due to our prudence over the years are actually managing to pay for a week in Whitby for the family, self catering.

No doubt a lot will have completely different views to me on this subject, and I am the first to admit that things are presently tough for a number of people and will be tougher once electricity and gas bills increase when the colder weather kicks in, but, I still feel the lessons learned by some of the older generation should be used as guidance for the younger generation.

Life never was, and never will be, a bowl of cherries, and the sooner some realise that the easier it will become for all of us.

Curryman retreats to a safe distance with flak jacket and tin helmet on.
Are you me?
 
Curryman, you seem to define yourself by your age, we are about the same age. I can relate to all the make do and mend stuff but that is the past and we have moved on. appreciate we have moved on, but not always for the better, and unfortunately it seems now that
Curryman, you seem to define yourself by your age, we are about the same age. I can relate to all the make do and mend stuff but that is the past and we have moved on.
I appreciate things have and are still moving on but not always for the better. We now seem to have a lot more people who will hold out the begging bowl before trying to solve their own problems. NB the words begging bowl are used metaphorically.
 
A lot of it is down to a change in parenting IMO, parents do everything for their kids now, some will never leave home And have absolutely no idea how to cope with anything outside of a very comfortable place they are used to.

( before the haters arrive I appreciate its not all kids)
 
A lot of it is down to a change in parenting IMO, parents do everything for their kids now, some will never leave home And have absolutely no idea how to cope with anything outside of a very comfortable place they are used to.

( before the haters arrive I appreciate its not all kids)
I do too much for my kids in some ways, well they are adults now and I still do.
So do a lot of my friends with their kids so I’m far from alone.

I agree it doesn’t always help them in the long run. There is a happy medium.
 
I do too much for my kids in some ways, well they are adults now and I still do.
So do a lot of my friends with their kids so I’m far from alone.

I agree it doesn’t always help them in the long run. There is a happy medium.
Most of my friends don’t seem to have found that happy medium, it’s all one way traffic but to the detriment I’m afraid. Another thing youngsters don’t seem to want to do anymore is start at the bottom on the housing market. They all want the all singing and dancing new build and the nice BMW or Mercedes’ without ever stopping to think if the going gets tough how they will cope.
 
I'll try that again, I'm using an unfamiliar lap top.

Bray, I fully understand that we have moved on and still are moving on, but not, unfortunately always for the better. We now seem to have more people who are ready to hold out the begging bowl (a metaphorical use of the term) rather than try and solve their own individual problems. How much food are they wasting due to ignorance? How much electricity are they wasting due to not switching off? To mention two areas of many. It probably stems from them not having been told, and this is due to society not the individuals.

Is there an answer?
 
I agree with a lot you are saying. I've made do throughout my life and I'm careful with money.
What I would sat is the housing market is completely broken and is unaffordable for most young people. When I bought my 1st house in 93 mortgages were tightly regulated on borrowing, interest rates were at a healthy 7% or so.
 
I agree with a lot you are saying. I've made do throughout my life and I'm careful with money.
What I would sat is the housing market is completely broken and is unaffordable for most young people. When I bought my 1st house in 93 mortgages were tightly regulated on borrowing, interest rates were at a healthy 7% or so.
You were lucky, my mortgage in 1976 was over 8% and from memory it shot up to around 16% in the early 80's.
 
You were lucky, my mortgage in 1976 was over 8% and from memory it shot up to around 16% in the early 80's.
I'm a saver so the current predicament isn't good for me. Additionally wages generally kept up in that era and housing was affordable. A bog standard house is a ridiculous price, its OK for us but if you're 24 and on 20k a year its a no hoper. I hear you about other issues, even in my 2nd house in 98 (when my son was born) we made a conscious decision that my wife went part time so she was heavily involved in his upbringing. We hadn't a pot to piss in and we had a portable TV for three years on a box. We upgraded to a 22 inch TV and i felt like a king.
 
I'm a saver so the current predicament isn't good for me. Additionally wages generally kept up in that era and housing was affordable. A bog standard house is a ridiculous price, its OK for us but if you're 24 and on 20k a year its a no hoper. I hear you about other issues, even in my 2nd house in 98 (when my son was born) we made a conscious decision that my wife went part time so she was heavily involved in his upbringing. We hadn't a pot to piss in and we had a portable TV for three years on a box. We upgraded to a 22 inch TV and i felt like a king.
I agree about house prices and mortgage costs these days.
If there are 2 youngsters pooling together it isn’t so bad, but for a single youngster looking to buy it’s not easy.
And kids don’t tend to settle down until later on these days. Most were married off by 20 in my parents day !
 
I know very well that I will get a proverbial kicking for what I'm going to post here, which is quite long, but, it has to be said.

As one of the older generation , born just after WW2, I was brought up in a time where people had to 'make do, and mend', some on here will not understand that phrase as we now have slipped away from that era and become a consumer society, one that uses something a couple of times and then rejects it, or should I say dumps it.

I can remember having a mother who darned socks , mended seams and patched things up, and have a wife who is also very capable of doing the same thing.

I can remember having a mother who cooked wholesome meals, who shopped daily to find the best bargains and served up food that was wholesome and tasty. I have a wife who does the same , shopping apart, which is done a couple of times a week.

I remember my father working long hours and not seeing him very much due to his work ethic, as a professional entertainer and sportsman, he wasn't particularly well paid, but we survived.

My wife can tell a similar story

We are now a pensioners, and have been for a number of years, who are and still are aware , especially after what occurred in the seventies era with inflation, the dangers of overspending , overstretching finances and saving a little to help in times of stress.

Our first home, after renting and scraping together enough for a deposit, was rather run down, No central heating, no double glazing, coal fires and a number of areas where floor board needed changing. We had enough money to buy a hall/stair carpet, but all other carpets and most furniture was either hand me downs or from the salesroom that used to be next to the south station on Waterloo Road. We, however, managed and gradually improved the property. No car, that had been sold to help fund the improvements to the living conditions. No holidays, they were spent decorating and replacing floor boards etc. But, we survived.

We, as parents, instilled into our children the need to be prudent when looking at property etc, the basics of cooking and making do and mending, where possible, rather than buying afresh and throwing out, and I feel we have done a reasonable job in our joint efforts.

Last night, after watching the Lionesses' make the semi finals the news, as per usual reported on the number of families on low incomes who are now struggling to make ends meet, and it struck me that when talking to them they obviously hadn't considered or been taught the basic skills that we were, when growing up.

There was one poor young woman who was disabled and required speciality medicines and frequent visits to London from Derby, and who was living with her parents, both pensioners, who was concerned about her being able to afford the travel to and from the capital as well as the cost of the medicines being prescribed. My heart went out to her and she deserves all the help that she needs, in order to live a reasonable life.

Two other families though, were a completely different kettle of fish. The first was a Teacher, whose wife was a trainee Nurse and they appeared to have one little girl, what their income was I can only guess, but it appeared that they had most of the home comforts in their well appointed dwelling, how much of it was on tick, again I don't know. It did appear that the house was rented and they were about to move back to live with their parents, due to the rent being too high. Did they consider this when entering the agreement or had they stretched their budget to keep up with the Jones's?

The second couple, from memory, were a family of four, again a well furnished, comfortable house. The father, who did the talking was bemoaning the fact that they could no longer have as many takeaways as previously purchased and less nights out. Now I'm sorry but I can, in no way, accept that what they were experiencing could be classed as hardship. Get the pans out, get the cooking done and be positive instead of bemoaning the fact that the whole world is against you at this time.

We are personally making savings, cutting back on spending, repairing and making do with things, walking rather than using the car, not attending pre season games, cutting out away games, although all games are away for me, and so on, and due to our prudence over the years are actually managing to pay for a week in Whitby for the family, self catering.

No doubt a lot will have completely different views to me on this subject, and I am the first to admit that things are presently tough for a number of people and will be tougher once electricity and gas bills increase when the colder weather kicks in, but, I still feel the lessons learned by some of the older generation should be used as guidance for the younger generation.

Life never was, and never will be, a bowl of cherries, and the sooner some realise that the easier it will become for all of us.

Curryman retreats to a safe distance with flak jacket and tin helmet on.
Agree with a lot of what you say, me and the missus are probably about 30 something years younger than you and we make do and mend, find stuff, have an allotment and basically don't buy into the whole rampant consumer capitalist society that dominates.
I saw the same news report and where I have to differ with you is the teacher and the trainee nurse. Their rented house looked quite dreary and they didn't look to have much to me. I don't know the figures but I'd guess that rented property costs a lot more than it did when you were in your 20s, really expensive in most of the major cities.
Make do and mend is the way forward but our economy is built on replacing things that don't really need replacing, if everybody lived frugally the very wealthy might take a hit in the pocket which might in turn lead to a fairer distribution of wealth.
To sum up I'm all for make do and mend, better for your pocket, better for the environment and better for your soul, but the cost of putting a roof over your head shouldn't be so high.
 
My pet hate and instilled in me by my father in the ration years in the early 50s , is people wasting any food whatsoever. A scrap left on a plate , was met by - " there are people starving who would love that " Many decades later . If we are out eating , others leaving food on their plates in restaurants upsets me .
 
My pet hate and instilled in me by my father in the ration years in the early 50s , is people wasting any food whatsoever. A scrap left on a plate , was met by - " there are people starving who would love that " Many decades later . If we are out eating , others leaving food on their plates in restaurants upsets me .
I think this has been instilled in a lot of us.
If I have half a tin of something left in the fridge or say 2 carrots left in the veg rack, I will often plan a whole meal around using that half tin or those 2 carrots rather than waste them.

It can actually be quite a stressful challenge, and when the carrots are worth about 15p it probably makes less financial sense too 🥹
 
Well… I really like the idea of ‘make do and mend’ (and I always re-cycle my clothes etc. at charity shops) but not if it’s taken to extremes and I think there has to be a distinction made between that, profligacy and being tight-fisted which is a trait I detest! Some people make a big thing out of being canny/careful, not always through necessity, but because they actually get a real ‘buzz’ out of it! I like generous people and that includes generosity of spirit.

My father in law was brought up in abject poverty in the 1920’s and he delighted in splashing his cash around and really enjoyed the fruits of his success. Same with my dad too. What’s the point of making money if you’re not going to enjoy it..and share it with those in need..
 
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I know very well that I will get a proverbial kicking for what I'm going to post here, which is quite long, but, it has to be said.

As one of the older generation , born just after WW2, I was brought up in a time where people had to 'make do, and mend', some on here will not understand that phrase as we now have slipped away from that era and become a consumer society, one that uses something a couple of times and then rejects it, or should I say dumps it.

I can remember having a mother who darned socks , mended seams and patched things up, and have a wife who is also very capable of doing the same thing.

I can remember having a mother who cooked wholesome meals, who shopped daily to find the best bargains and served up food that was wholesome and tasty. I have a wife who does the same , shopping apart, which is done a couple of times a week.

I remember my father working long hours and not seeing him very much due to his work ethic, as a professional entertainer and sportsman, he wasn't particularly well paid, but we survived.

My wife can tell a similar story

We are now a pensioners, and have been for a number of years, who are and still are aware , especially after what occurred in the seventies era with inflation, the dangers of overspending , overstretching finances and saving a little to help in times of stress.

Our first home, after renting and scraping together enough for a deposit, was rather run down, No central heating, no double glazing, coal fires and a number of areas where floor board needed changing. We had enough money to buy a hall/stair carpet, but all other carpets and most furniture was either hand me downs or from the salesroom that used to be next to the south station on Waterloo Road. We, however, managed and gradually improved the property. No car, that had been sold to help fund the improvements to the living conditions. No holidays, they were spent decorating and replacing floor boards etc. But, we survived.

We, as parents, instilled into our children the need to be prudent when looking at property etc, the basics of cooking and making do and mending, where possible, rather than buying afresh and throwing out, and I feel we have done a reasonable job in our joint efforts.

Last night, after watching the Lionesses' make the semi finals the news, as per usual reported on the number of families on low incomes who are now struggling to make ends meet, and it struck me that when talking to them they obviously hadn't considered or been taught the basic skills that we were, when growing up.

There was one poor young woman who was disabled and required speciality medicines and frequent visits to London from Derby, and who was living with her parents, both pensioners, who was concerned about her being able to afford the travel to and from the capital as well as the cost of the medicines being prescribed. My heart went out to her and she deserves all the help that she needs, in order to live a reasonable life.

Two other families though, were a completely different kettle of fish. The first was a Teacher, whose wife was a trainee Nurse and they appeared to have one little girl, what their income was I can only guess, but it appeared that they had most of the home comforts in their well appointed dwelling, how much of it was on tick, again I don't know. It did appear that the house was rented and they were about to move back to live with their parents, due to the rent being too high. Did they consider this when entering the agreement or had they stretched their budget to keep up with the Jones's?

The second couple, from memory, were a family of four, again a well furnished, comfortable house. The father, who did the talking was bemoaning the fact that they could no longer have as many takeaways as previously purchased and less nights out. Now I'm sorry but I can, in no way, accept that what they were experiencing could be classed as hardship. Get the pans out, get the cooking done and be positive instead of bemoaning the fact that the whole world is against you at this time.

We are personally making savings, cutting back on spending, repairing and making do with things, walking rather than using the car, not attending pre season games, cutting out away games, although all games are away for me, and so on, and due to our prudence over the years are actually managing to pay for a week in Whitby for the family, self catering.

No doubt a lot will have completely different views to me on this subject, and I am the first to admit that things are presently tough for a number of people and will be tougher once electricity and gas bills increase when the colder weather kicks in, but, I still feel the lessons learned by some of the older generation should be used as guidance for the younger generation.

Life never was, and never will be, a bowl of cherries, and the sooner some realise that the easier it will become for all of us.

Curryman retreats to a safe distance with flak jacket and tin helmet on.)
Wilf, agree with a lot you said there.
The actual wartime slogan was:-
Mend, make and do ,
To save buying new,

Having an brother who was only 19 months older, and not much taller/bigger than I, I always had the ;hand me downs' and pre-worn clothes etc.
It didn't mean much to me then as ne always stood up for, and protected me when necessary. Unfortunately he had a very sad and relatively early end to his life (60+)Dad was away for 4+years (North Africa & Italy WW2. Mum made sure we didn't go hungry. She had 2 jobs.
IO don't tell people they are lucky these days. It was just Life and i suppose a good learning status.
I wish the best out of life to all our friends on here (as long as they keep supporting The Poo)l 😉
 
I was brought up in a house with no electricity, gas lights downstairs and candles upstairs. No bathroom, tin bath hung in the yard, dusted off and brought into the scullery on Sunday. No washing machine, a dolly tub and a mangle. Brick shithouse at the end of the yard with torn up newspaper for bog roll. A bag of broken biscuits was a treat.

Good times though and I now appreciate more everything we have today.
 
The Boomers all forget to tell you that a new house was a few hundred quid as opposed to the current 10 years of salary over 35 years.
 
The Boomers all forget to tell you that a new house was a few hundred quid as opposed to the current 10 years of salary over 35 years.
Yes houses were cheaper, my parents sold their 3 bedroomed semi in Wales for £2.5k in 1961 and bought an eight bedroomed boarding house in Reads avenue for around £5,2 K. I know it was my Dad's ambition to earn £20 a week at the time.

Totally Tangerine said
What’s the point of making money if you’re not going to enjoy it..and share it with those in need.

I can honestly say that we have helped both my son and daughter to purchase their houses, that's what parents are for.
 
I was brought up in a house with no electricity, gas lights downstairs and candles upstairs. No bathroom, tin bath hung in the yard, dusted off and brought into the scullery on Sunday. No washing machine, a dolly tub and a mangle. Brick shithouse at the end of the yard with torn up newspaper for bog roll. A bag of broken biscuits was a treat.

Good times though and I now appreciate more everything we have today.
Luxury ….

This is all starting to sound like the four Yorkshiremen sketch.

Apologies Mates - not talking specifically about your post
 
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