Meanwhile in Sweden

Costero Poderoso said:
You have asked the questions so here goes.

1. We did know what was coming it was already apparent that there were issues in Italy and Spain and several other parts of the world. The UK should have had its best researchers and scientists in Italy, Spain and in China and all over the WTO looking for actual answers, not speculating on economic and political fallout associated with a pandemic. Testing, scientific research, more testing and more research should have been the way forward. Not: political posturing, then political manoeuvres leading to more political posturing and so on. By understanding the science; virality, infection rates, mortality rates better decisions could have been made, and in the meantime proceed with caution would have been the mantra. Actual rules could have been put in place rather than the vague guidelines that were implemented. Leaving the on the ground policy implementation to the “discretion” of individual police officers and other enforcement officers was also a mistake in getting everyone on the same page.

2. I would have managed the economy in a similar manner, probably put more control on the banks, and also more control on digital retailers to recoup the benefits that they have had. Sunak has done a reasonable job, but unfortunately what he has done so far was the easy bit. Going forward there is a bigger issue.

3. First of all when the first signs of the virus were appearing I probably would not have gone out shaking people’s hand’s and bragging about it, as though everything was ok. Boris (really, really) wanted the job of PM, he also claimed to want Brexit, the problems he has faced are problems he promised to resolve. I would have cancelled Brexit and then we can revert to my answer in 1. I’m also not an obese tub of lard like Boris was (but that’s being insulting before anyone else points that out).

4. First of all the government didn’t listen to the pandemic experts Bojo changed his mind from pursuing a policy of herd immunity in the early stages, also the question is not an either / or- why would you not do both.

5. Depends what the science is saying and the science, at a public level anyway, seems to be saying that we still do not know enough. The economics is another matter, but I wrote something on here a few days ago which explains how it could all get paid for. If there is justification for a lockdown then do it, immediately. What is more important, government costs or peoples lives?

6. It worked in relieving pressure on the NHS and flattening the curve of infections. The inevitable is that this is probably going to be around for 5 years or more, it will only be reduced by science. The science under this government and I have no doubt that it would have been the same or worse under labour, has always come second to politics.

Also, I know this is me being an arse, but please learn the difference between of and have, it’s embarrassing that so many natural born English speakers don’t know how to use those words.
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You only really answered no2, number 3 you got all Labour and regards the English lesson at the end I thank you but I don’t need it, so in the future it’s probably best to be not s self righteous.
 
Scaramanga said:
You only really answered no2, number 3 you got all Labour and regards the English lesson at the end I thank you but I don’t need it, so in the future it’s probably best to be not s self righteous.
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Five uses of “of” when it should have been “have” suggests you do need English lessons so don’t be so ungrateful.
 
Woolly Mammoth said:
Five uses of “of” when it should have been “have” suggests you do need English lessons so don’t be so ungrateful.
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Why do I need English lessons, at my age what will that achieve ? I’m doing perfectly well as I am thank you very much. I’ve never really understood the grammar police thing. Do you feel superior to me because your grammar is better than mine ? I suggest you need a hobby mate.
 
Guaranteed full wage when not in work. Tick

I am scratching my head at that one.. Is that the same wage that you were on in your last job, or a national average wage?
Think if that was on offer, most people would be itching to get laid off immediately.
 
Sweden didnt lockdown and it has saved their economy and saved lives.

You can try and deny it as much as you want but the facts speak for themselves.
 
Wizaard said:
1. Back in March I said we should implement a total lockdown, including a complete shutdown of anyone coming into the country and not the half arsed thing we did do.
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Really? Where did you say that?

I've been through your posts from the time and you weren't saying anything like that on here.

Eg:

March 15
Wizaard said:
They've announced that there will be powers to quarantine those who refuse to self isolate. 1984 finally arrives.
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March 12
Wizaard said:
At least he's listening to the experts. Gove was all for ignoring them
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Also March 12
Wizaard said:
Because of the attention span of the average member of the public, bringing in measures too early will lead to them being ignored.
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March 8
Wizaard said:
Stopped serving after that. Cheers lads. Plus how brain dead do you have to be to sing Fleetwood's a shithole to the bar staff then complain about not being served?
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Lost Seasider said:
Really? Where did you say that?

I've been through your posts from the time and you weren't saying anything like that on here.

Eg:

March 15


March 12


Also March 12


March 8
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Ignored the one on the 16th March then, when I queried why planes were coming in with no testing being done. And the last one about drinking in the Strawberry Gardens has nothing to do with COVID.
 
Wizaard said:
Ignored the one on the 16th March then, when I queried why planes were coming in with no testing being done.
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Link please, because I can't find any such post.

In any event that's 1000 miles away from calling for a total lockdown and stopping all planes coming into the country.


Wizaard said:
And the last one about drinking in the Strawberry Gardens has nothing to do with COVID.
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I included it because I find it odd that somebody who thought we should be in total lockdown was at the same time happy to go to a match and then the pub afterwards.

Wiz at the bar: Two pints of lager and a total national lockdown please.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Link please, because I can't find any such post.

In any event that's 1000 miles away from calling for a total lockdown and stopping all planes coming into the country.




I included it because I find it odd that somebody who thought we should be in total lockdown was at the same time happy to go to a match and then the pub afterwards.

Wiz at the bar: Two pints of lager and a total national lockdown please.
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Don't drink lager.
 
Wizaard said:
I've made over 5000 posts since then. My search facility allows me to check just over 200.
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But I've found this one which refers to it...

Wizaard said:
I posted on 16th March about why were we letting people into the country without testing, especially in the light of one flight from Wuhan resulting in them spending a fortnight in Arrowe Park. I cannot comprehend why even basic tests were not brought in, never mind the banning of flights from hot spots for the virus.
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Wizaard said:
I've made over 5000 posts since then. My search facility allows me to check just over 200.
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Are we using a different version of the forums software? I can see every post from 16 March.

Edit, let's try something:

These are your posts from 16 March, please point to the one you are referencing:
https://www.avftt.co.uk/index.php?search/25563/&page=10

Wizaard said:
But I've found this one which refers to it...
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Sadly no link to the mysterious post, so no evidence that it was ever made.
 
Whether Sweden got it wrong or not can be debated forever.
I'm just glad that one country did something so different than the rest, at least we can all learn from it.
There will be good decisions & bad decisions from every country, it will only be in a few years time that we can collate the successes/failures that could help in any future pandemic wars.

Sweden have been extremely brave in their decision making.
For the rest of the world, I think that's a massive positive.
 
Scaramanga said:
Because you can’t you mushroom.
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It's interesting to read through some of the older threads from the time, here's what Mex would've done:

March 15
Mexboroseasider said:
No one, including the experts, really know the best way to proceed.
.................
So far we’ve avoided lockdown but it’s supposed to be in the pipeline and only a question of timing.
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Also March 15
Mexboroseasider said:
Frankly I don’t have any idea what the right approach is; and neither it seems does any government in the world.
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So basically exactly what the government did.
 
Lost Seasider said:
It's interesting to read through some of the older threads from the time, here's what Mex would've done:

March 15


Also March 15


So basically exactly what the government did.
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First - you’ve clearly got too much time on your hands. 😂

Secondly - what’s the relevance to what I said in March as quoted above, to what I’ve said on this thread? You seem to be suggesting I’ve contradicted myself in some way. I’ve simply asked Scara to answer his own questions as I’d interested in his replies. Especially as he seems to be the one most critical of the government policies of lockdown and mask wearing.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
Waiting until a holiday period because it will be more convenient or better economically or some other bull5h17 is just f*****g insanity.
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No it isn't, haven't you clicked yet..........................Covid19 obeys the restrictions, it is people that don't. 😁
 
Mexboroseasider said:
First - you’ve clearly got too much time on your hands. 😂

Secondly - what’s the relevance to what I said in March as quoted above, to what I’ve said on this thread? You seem to be suggesting I’ve contradicted myself in some way. I’ve simply asked Scara to answer his own questions as I’d interested in his replies. Especially as he seems to be the one most critical of the government policies of lockdown and mask wearing.
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I’m the one most critical of the governments Policies hahahahaha you have lost it mate. And to add I have absolutely no idea what the right answers are to my questions are which Is why I posted them. Seeing as you and your mates on here think your all experts at everything and always think your right and everyone else is wrong Im not surprised to see you have tried playing games with it. See Lost Seasiders post.
 
Scaramanga said:
I’m the one most critical of the governments Policies hahahahaha you have lost it mate. And to add I have absolutely no idea what the right answers are to my questions are which Is why I posted them. Seeing as you and your mates on here think your all experts at everything and always think your right and everyone else is wrong Im not surprised to see you have tried playing games with it. See Lost Seasiders post.
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Well as you’re endlessly moaning about the lockdown and people wearing masks, and it’s the Government who introduced the lockdown and require people to wear masks, I think it’s fair to conclude that you are critical of government policies yes.

I see you have finally admitted you don’t have answers to the questions you posed. A refreshing display of honesty, if rather belated, so congratulations

And Yep - see Lost Seasiders post which shows the exact opposite of what you claim. Rather than thinking I’m always right, the posts LS has dug up show I admit I don’t know the answers either. So at least we have on thing in common.

Anyway - why so grumpy? We won yesterday. God knows what you’d be like if we’d lost.
 
Endlessly moaning about masks, please show me some proof. As you have admitted you know fuck all about anything can you please now stop telling everyone how the government should do this or do that and just except that nobody has a clue and no matter what you think no other government would have a clue either.
 
Scaramanga said:
Endlessly moaning about masks, please show me some proof. As you have admitted you know fuck all about anything can you please now stop telling everyone how the government should do this or do that and just except that nobody has a clue and no matter what you think no other government would have a clue either.
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Unless it was a government under Corbyn which would be a total disaster, as we've been told by you for the last 3 years.
 
Scaramanga said:
Endlessly moaning about masks, please show me some proof. As you have admitted you know fuck all about anything can you please now stop telling everyone how the government should do this or do that and just except that nobody has a clue and no matter what you think no other government would have a clue either.
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Crikey you are cross today. 😂
 
Sweden admitted they got it wrong with Care Homes but I think most countries did. They haven’t closed schools or had to wear masks but asked people to socially distance and behave responsibly. Which is something we can’t do for some reason? The young think they are invincible and the rest are as thick as pig 💩
 
no its the government once again passing the blame onto the population instead of taking responsibility themselves. This idea that the British people are not capable of making their own decisions, cannot be trusted to act responsibly and need to be treated like children is just a way of pushing the blame and we are swallowing it.
 
Blackpool is the UKs Sweden. Exempt from lockdown we are the test town. #Blackpoollivesmatter
 
Wizaard said:
Unless it was a government under Corbyn which would be a total disaster, as we've been told by you for the last 3 years.
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God can you imagine it?

The election was 12 December, they wouldn't have started any real work until January, they'd have been trying to manage this crisis before they even knew how to work the telephones.

Odds are that Jon Ashworth would've been fired as health secretary after this assessment of Corbyn:

“I’ve been going round these national places, it’s dire for Labour… it’s dire… it’s awful for them, and it’s the combination of Corbyn and Brexit….outside of the city seats… it’s abysmal out there… they can’t stand Corbyn and they think Labour’s blocked Brexit. I think middle-class graduates – remainy people – Labour’s doing well among… but not in big enough numbers to deny the Tories a majority.”

Corbyn in no.10 claiming it's all a result of 5g, a new health secretary with no experience of the brief dropped into the middle of the biggest crisis for 80 years, what could possibly go wrong?
 
Ormergod said:
no its the government once again passing the blame onto the population instead of taking responsibility themselves. This idea that the British people are not capable of making their own decisions, cannot be trusted to act responsibly and need to be treated like children is just a way of pushing the blame and we are swallowing it.
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If you ever needed proof how stupid and selfish the dumb British public are then see the reports on the behaviour in Blackpool this weekend.

I witnessed it first hand and ignorant selfish c**ts springs to mind.
 
I’m not snowflaking mex merely asking if you know which one of your comrades has been crying to the mods again.
 
😂

For the record:

I don’t know who the mods are.

I don’t know whether you’ve been reported.

If you have, I don’t know who by or whether the mods have ticked you off - you naughty boy!!

What I do know for sure is..... you’re behaving like a girly wuss.

Throwing all that PC nonsense to the winds can I just say ...... Man Up you Jessie!!!!
 
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Sweden -
1- less densely populated than a lot of countries.
2- more single households than most other countries.
3- one of lowest average household sizes anywhere.
4- one of the lowest rates of poverty.
5- not sure of the % BAME population but a fair guess is to say it is lower than a lot of countries.
6- The Swedes are a healthy bunch and one of the highest life expectancies in Europe.
7- A wealthy country, with a great healthcare system, a hard working population with a high trust of the Government. I suspect they understand a message and can follow guidelines and respect the law etc.

With all this they are more trusted to follow the herd immunity approach and do the right thing.

They then have one of the worst death tolls in the world.

Be could you imagine a couple of the above points being completely the opposite? How bad would the death toll be?

Imagine a country like ours taking the same approach?

I could be completely wrong but the facts are there and if any country was suited to follow this approach then it was always going to be Sweden.
 
TangerineMorph said:
Sweden -
1- less densely populated than a lot of countries.
2- more single households than most other countries.
3- one of lowest average household sizes anywhere.
4- one of the lowest rates of poverty.
5- not sure of the % BAME population but a fair guess is to say it is lower than a lot of countries.
6- The Swedes are a healthy bunch and one of the highest life expectancies in Europe.
7- A wealthy country, with a great healthcare system, a hard working population with a high trust of the Government. I suspect they understand a message and can follow guidelines and respect the law etc.

With all this they are more trusted to follow the herd immunity approach and do the right thing.

They then have one of the worst death tolls in the world.

Be could you imagine a couple of the above points being completely the opposite? How bad would the death toll be?

Imagine a country like ours taking the same approach?

I could be completely wrong but the facts are there and if any country was suited to follow this approach then it was always going to be Sweden.
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So nothing to do with not locking down then?
 
TangerineMorph said:
This is my point, if the UK had taken the same approach, with a completely different demographic and behaviours then the death rate per million would have been much, much worse than it is.
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That is a ridiculous statement to make.

This is the government's fault.Not ours!
 
TangerineMorph said:
Sweden -
1- less densely populated than a lot of countries.
2- more single households than most other countries.
3- one of lowest average household sizes anywhere.
4- one of the lowest rates of poverty.
5- not sure of the % BAME population but a fair guess is to say it is lower than a lot of countries.
6- The Swedes are a healthy bunch and one of the highest life expectancies in Europe.
7- A wealthy country, with a great healthcare system, a hard working population with a high trust of the Government. I suspect they understand a message and can follow guidelines and respect the law etc.

With all this they are more trusted to follow the herd immunity approach and do the right thing.

They then have one of the worst death tolls in the world.

Be could you imagine a couple of the above points being completely the opposite? How bad would the death toll be?

Imagine a country like ours taking the same approach?

I could be completely wrong but the facts are there and if any country was suited to follow this approach then it was always going to be Sweden.
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8. Kept schools open
https://twitter.com/x/status/1308583765095125000
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
So far;

Sweden 580 deaths per million population
Norway 49
Denmark 110
Finland 61
Poland 60
Germany 113

Not sure that the Sweden approach can be called an unqualified success at the moment but after this winter things may be perceived differently. It just depends on what happens if / when the winter flu season gets going and where is affected badly.

UKs death rate is currently 614 per million even after the revised way of counting deaths

Your view will depend on what value you are prepared to spend to save a human life. So far no-one has been able to really address this fundamental in a public health crisis. It would perhaps give another tangible measure if the government gave us the estimated cost of every life saved. I know this sounds harsh but health care professionals do this all the time when prioritising interventions.
As it was we seemed to lurch from a Sweden type approach to a full on lockdown approach in the space of a few days.

All the stats are here;
www.worldometers.info

Coronavirus Update (Live): 136,643,191 Cases and 2,949,419 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...
www.worldometers.info www.worldometers.info
before Lost Seasider asks 😇
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Makes no consideration of the number of deaths that the UK lockdown policy has caused. The disruption to regular health services would have a significant impact on these numbers.
 
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