Minutes of Tuesday's Structured Dialogue meeting

What or who is Tangerine Seasiders please? That one has passed me by over the last five years...
 
You can tell they keep their ear to the ground on the opinion of the fans with how much they went into detail on the NC being backed question. They seemed to go on to address loads of things that have been said over the past couple months from that one question
 
What or who is Tangerine Seasiders please? That one has passed me by over the last five years...
They're a Facebook page that started last year. I remember people being confused from the last meeting when they were there, surprised they've been allowed to be classed as a "supporters group" as they don't have members/memberships, they're simply just a page on Facebook that you can "like"
 
A good mix of stuff there: many encouraging comments about long-term plans and the future of the club, and some revealing comments about stuff behind the scenes in the Grayson era.

I'm glad that the club have unequivocally backed Critchley as the man for the job as I was a bit concerned when I heard the "hopefully in Critch we trust" comment from BM when he spoke at the Armfield Club. BM and LB deserve huge credit on the non-footballing side for developing things during the Covid crisis. We keep our fingers crossed that the player recruitment fits in with the medium term plan of promotion.

I keep saying it, but we are so, so lucky to have Simon Sadler as our owner. He seems to have a good mix of pragmatism and ambition that will serve the club well in the long term.
 
Scathing of the comments on this board. 😂

But in fairness there were some valid questions and opinions raised on here regarding the playing side of things over the last few months.
The fact the club were a bit touchy about that tells me there was something in it.
 
Scathing of the comments on this board. 😂

But in fairness there were some valid questions and opinions raised on here regarding the playing side of things over the last few months.
The fact the club were a bit touchy about that tells me there was something in it.

😀

TBF, nobody likes being criticised. I'm just glad they listened to me re an experienced number two...
 
To me, it looks as though it was, as previously, a well-structured meeting with a very open discussion, where the board answered the questions put to them. Obviously, other things will have been said but as is true with minutes from all meetings, you get the salient points only and not the bluster which often is expended in such meetings.

In comparison to the previous owners, they did not promise a swivelling roof, pitch, the moon on a stick or anything else they will be unable or unwilling to deliver, and the idea of using the Stanley Park Oval for the youth team is great, in my book. It's taking the club to the people, hopefully in return for more of the people returning to or coming to the club.

Having been present at a couple of the meetings, I have found them to be well informed as to what is happening and willing to explain why things will or cannot be done. It is a breath of fresh air compared to the bluster and bullshit that we were used to previously.
 
It's a good note of what sounds like it was a very constructive meeting. It was interesting that there were some real attempts to reach out to the fan base there (emotionally, I mean).

I'm glad that the issue of how representative (or otherwise) this forum is came up. I think it is very passionate (which is good), often very reactive (not so good) and far too many people over-analyse things that the club says or does, before reaching daft conclusions (human nature).

Whether the wider support thinks the same way is a moot point, but I have some doubts. The very fact that people end up on here and posting suggests that they have strong opinions, and they are often extreme or highly emotional in nature. Throw in a few people who want to push an agenda and all of a sudden the place has as much to do with sober, grounded reality as ** Narnia.**

** but without the Turkish delight.
 
Agree that it’s brilliant that the club reaches out to the fans int his way. What a club we have now.

I do think as a fan base we should think about amalgamation of all the fans groups into one big one. Would hold the club to account in a better way for me personally and hold more weight behind their points.
 
Agree that it’s brilliant that the club reaches out to the fans int his way. What a club we have now.

I do think as a fan base we should think about amalgamation of all the fans groups into one big one. Would hold the club to account in a better way for me personally and hold more weight behind their points.

We could have elections and a constitution and call it a Supporters Trust. 😀
 
We could have elections and a constitution and call it a Supporters Trust. 😀
My point being that despite the Trust there’s still a large range of fans that don’t want to be represented by this organisation.

I get it’s there personal choice but if we were all under one banner it would help when we went to the club instead of a plethora of organisations.
 
Agree that it’s brilliant that the club reaches out to the fans int his way. What a club we have now.

I do think as a fan base we should think about amalgamation of all the fans groups into one big one. Would hold the club to account in a better way for me personally and hold more weight behind their points.
I understand the need of supporters groups for fans that live elsewhere (BASIL, Yorkshire Seasiders), but I agree - 9 supporters groups for a club our size is bordering ridiculous (or 8, as Tangerine Seasiders aren't a supporters group).
 
This response from BG sums up why we have a fantastic owner who only wants the best for this club and the community:

BG – Simon was blown away with the level of support from fans buying season tickets blindly. It should be known that on the back of the support shown to him he went out to invest in more players. If supporters were prepared to back the club, he was prepared to back the team & Neil.
 
SLO - thanks for posting these minutes so promptly, Could you also please also explore the option of webcasting future meetings to a wider audience. Technology is readily available and has been used extensively during Covid
 
My point being that despite the Trust there’s still a large range of fans that don’t want to be represented by this organisation.

I get it’s there personal choice but if we were all under one banner it would help when we went to the club instead of a plethora of organisations.

I was being facetious, obviously. It will never happen, unfortunately.
 
I quite like it that they are a bit touchy about what comes from this site it shows they read the forum's and value our opinions

However i don't think there are been anything posted thats crossed any line, just people raising valid concerns about the club

Bit defensive in parts but all good stuff really and they clearly listen
 
My point being that despite the Trust there’s still a large range of fans that don’t want to be represented by this organisation.

I get it’s there personal choice but if we were all under one banner it would help when we went to the club instead of a plethora of organisations.
Perhaps an umbrella group with officials from all groups, but still keeping the individual groups which people want to be associated with.

The umbrella group could act for all fans on common ground
 
I was being facetious, obviously. It will never happen, unfortunately.
Sorry there’s no tone over a message board.

I think it could, if the argument was well made to everyone how much a single independent entity would help combat something like the Oystons rule in the future.
 
SLO - thanks for posting these minutes so promptly, Could you also please also explore the option of webcasting future meetings to a wider audience. Technology is readily available and has been used extensively during Covid
Hi bfcpete. The idea of webcasting has been discussed. I'm not sure everyone feels comfortable (yet or in future) with the idea, but we'll see.
 
Perhaps an umbrella group with officials from all groups, but still keeping the individual groups which people want to be associated with.

The umbrella group could act for all fans on common ground
That’s what I had in mind as a starting point.

Understand why the individual ones exist, but I come at this from the point of avoiding any Oystonesque antics in the future.
As good as things are now, if we ever had something like the Oystons happen again we’d need shooting.
Look at how the dissolution of BISA eventually led to the free reign they had down the road.
 
Interesting point made about NC using player data which is used all the time now in top level sport - as opposed to Simon Grayson who didn’t use it!
Looks like we are on the right path to be successful in the near future.
And shocked to hear its going to cost SS £4-6 million to keep the club afloat this season
 
I quite like it that they are a bit touchy about what comes from this site it shows they read the forum's and value our opinions

However i don't think there are been anything posted thats crossed any line, just people raising valid concerns about the club

Bit defensive in parts but all good stuff really and they clearly listen

I was just about to post exactly the same. The claim that hiring CC was not a knee jerk reaction and that position was always going to be filled after DD left?

Amazing coincidence in the timing there then old boy chinny chinny beards...............

Decent read though. Club is in good hands.
 
Interesting point made about NC using player data which is used all the time now in top level sport - as opposed to Simon Grayson who didn’t use it!
Looks like we are on the right path to be successful in the near future.
And shocked to hear its going to cost SS £4-6 million to keep the club afloat this season
And people moan about having to stump up a tenner. They have a choice. He doesn't.
 
Expected goal stats don't win you actual league points.

Coaches who actually know what they're doing and who's ideas are worth real league points and translate on the pitch via the players are more effective. So it's good that they recognised they had to react fairly early on into this and started to look around for experienced help to throw into the mix, and sourced someone through an agent they use for players. It seemed far too naive approach to me before that once they'd finished selling covid season tickets based on a notion. But it can be cheaper this way than it ultimately costing several people their jobs, and the club a potential relegation. Whilst sleepwalking and saying everything is fine because look at the XG numbers.

Still nothing on how long Calderwood is actually here for though. What sort of arrangement is it given he'd accepted a role elsewhere with a January start date?
 
It was interesting to hear that apart from Armand, none of the players who left have found a place at League 1 level or better, which shows that the decisions to let them go were correct. I tried to locate Ben Heneghan's current position but as far as I can see he is now out of contract, unless he has moved abroad.
 
Hi bfcpete. The idea of webcasting has been discussed. I'm not sure everyone feels comfortable (yet or in future) with the idea, but we'll see.

would it be possible for one of these a year to have more access and interactivity? I agree that the more limited structured dialogue is best for this kind of interaction, but perhaps opening it up to the wider fanbase once a season would allow for more ideas to come out? And if not a few idiots can maybe let off steam
 
would it be possible for one of these a year to have more access and interactivity? I agree that the more limited structured dialogue is best for this kind of interaction, but perhaps opening it up to the wider fanbase once a season would allow for more ideas to come out? And if not a few idiots can maybe let off steam
That sounds like a broader Fans' Forum event to me. We did hold a couple of those last season but Covid has cut across plans for this year. I'll put it to the club though.
 
Expected goal stats don't win you actual league points.

Coaches who actually know what they're doing and who's ideas are worth real league points and translate on the pitch via the players are more effective. So it's good that they recognised they had to react fairly early on into this and started to look around for experienced help to throw into the mix, and sourced someone through an agent they use for players. It seemed far too naive approach to me before that once they'd finished selling covid season tickets based on a notion. But it can be cheaper this way than it ultimately costing several people their jobs, and the club a potential relegation. Whilst sleepwalking and saying everything is fine because look at the XG numbers.

Still nothing on how long Calderwood is actually here for though. What sort of arrangement is it given he'd accepted a role elsewhere with a January start date?

Yes, stats only take you so far. But I'm glad that we make the effort to use the metrics that are available to us. Allardyce was one of the first to do it at Bolton, and he took them to the top eight in the EPL.

I'm not sure what the rest of that actually means as it is borderline incoherent, but if you are forming an opinion on Critchley based upon twenty odd games, what metrics are YOU using?

The other thing that struck me as odd was this suggestion that we source everything through favoured agents. is this true, or it is just an AVFTT myth? I was under the impression that our new players came from a wide variety of agent families, so to speak.

TKL : I think the club do the Structured Dialogue this way to meet EFL requirements, not necessarily because they want to do it this way. I suppose they could have a free for all every now and then, but I don't immediately see what would be in it for them.
 
The metrics I use are a failure to gain league points, repeat scenario red cards for a left back being put at centre half and not learning, losing home games 4-1 and then admitting it was a cock up, things like that. And if things are going OK and you're confident it'll click then an experienced coach isn't brought in early on.

Calderwood's agent is Lubala and Williams agent. It says on the link how BM used his contacts.

Got a lot out of reading that. For probably the first time with one of these things. Appreciate those who asked the questions.
 
I don’t think people moan about stumping up a tenner per say. I think it’s more about stumping up a tenner for a p**s poor service, although I appreciate its out of the clubs control.
They are moaning though, probably those that stream ffa. I don't know what people expect- the clubs have to repay STH's and to make it £1 wouldn't do that. Also asimple case of supply and demand- we as BFC want to see BFC play and there is only one supply- Don't Like, Don't Stream, Don't Pay.

For a full tenner do people expect VAR as well?
 
The metrics I use are a failure to gain league points, repeat scenario red cards for a left back being put at centre half and not learning, losing home games 4-1 and then admitting it was a cock up, things like that. And if things are going OK and you're confident it'll click then an experienced coach isn't brought in early on.

Calderwood's agent is Lubala and Williams agent. It says on the link how BM used his contacts.

Got a lot out of reading that. For probably the first time with one of these things. Appreciate those who asked the questions.
I'm not sure which link you are referring to. Are there any other agents with multiple numbers of players? I'm not aware of any, which makes your point moot, doesn't it?

Re the metrics you choose to look at - I'll give you Husband, but his discipline problems were evident almost from the moment he arrived - way, way before Critchley did. And it is odd that you choose to focus on one 4-1 defeat and ignore much more impressive recent form. If I was in any way cynical, I might think you have decided on the answer before you designed the question .....
 
Perhaps an umbrella group with officials from all groups, but still keeping the individual groups which people want to be associated with.

The umbrella group could act for all fans on common ground
I don't know the answer to this.
An umbrella group has lots of its own problems. Who is on it? Are they elected? Who by? How do they obtain consensus from all the individual groups? Is consensus necessarily right?
As somebody else said there are a lot of groups. Which should the club engage with? Cue screams if any are overlooked.
Current system of engagement is not perfect but the majority of comments above seem to be appreciative
 
Expected goal stats don't win you actual league points.

Coaches who actually know what they're doing and who's ideas are worth real league points and translate on the pitch via the players are more effective. So it's good that they recognised they had to react fairly early on into this and started to look around for experienced help to throw into the mix, and sourced someone through an agent they use for players. It seemed far too naive approach to me before that once they'd finished selling covid season tickets based on a notion. But it can be cheaper this way than it ultimately costing several people their jobs, and the club a potential relegation. Whilst sleepwalking and saying everything is fine because look at the XG numbers.

Still nothing on how long Calderwood is actually here for though. What sort of arrangement is it given he'd accepted a role elsewhere with a January start date?
Noticed on a few of your posts recently that you seem really down on the club mate? With everything a new owner is trying to achieve with all the restrictions placed on him is there any reason why? 🤔
 
I'm not sure which link you are referring to. Are there any other agents with multiple numbers of players? I'm not aware of any, which makes your point moot, doesn't it?

Re the metrics you choose to look at - I'll give you Husband, but his discipline problems were evident almost from the moment he arrived - way, way before Critchley did. And it is odd that you choose to focus on one 4-1 defeat and ignore much more impressive recent form. If I was in any way cynical, I might think you have decided on the answer before you designed the question .....
Never said there was anything wrong with it. It's how clubs have to operate, there's just more knowledge out there now about that side of the game. Club recognise the need for an extra coach, they know some agents, they know the club, contact is made, and Calderwood agrees to come here to have some input in proceedings, rather than starts the other job that he'd accepted. We don't know how long that's for as they haven't said but I'm sure we'll find out.

The upturn in results started after Critchley started to talk to the media about trying new things, looking at options to change and if experienced help was needed. Dropped the idea of a 4-1-2-3 high pressing game that wasn't working in favour of a 4-2-3-1 and surrendered possession to MK Dons, came out with a 1-0 win. Wasn't pretty and it seems to be against everything he believes in but it got the job done. It's to his credit that he did that. Chris Maxwell had said a few days before, the penny has to drop soon with how they were going about things.

It went awry a few days later with two more red cards and a defeat but he now has an experienced assistant to work with, they've made the change up front to bring more structure to the team and have seen a response from it. And whilst they've got a tough run of fixtures to come now until January at least something has been done to try to make something of the start to the season, because it was heading in the wrong direction otherwise. It still feels like it's against the way they recruited in the summer and what NC wants to do but it couldn't carry on like it was.

James Husband hadn't been sent off twice in three games as a centre half being expected to hold a high defensive line before as the coach misjudged his abilities. He's a left back, if even you know his game already etc.. It's the little things like that where you need the people in charge of your football team to be more savvy about.
 
Expected goal stats don't win you actual league points.

Coaches who actually know what they're doing and who's ideas are worth real league points and translate on the pitch via the players are more effective. So it's good that they recognised they had to react fairly early on into this and started to look around for experienced help to throw into the mix, and sourced someone through an agent they use for players. It seemed far too naive approach to me before that once they'd finished selling covid season tickets based on a notion. But it can be cheaper this way than it ultimately costing several people their jobs, and the club a potential relegation. Whilst sleepwalking and saying everything is fine because look at the XG numbers.

Still nothing on how long Calderwood is actually here for though. What sort of arrangement is it given he'd accepted a role elsewhere with a January start date?
Pool fc
No need for negativity
My understanding from a trusted source is that Calderwood is very much part of the project .
Read the minutes. The appointment of someone in that role was always envisaged.
They board found their man and he is in the fold.
The reality is that in football no one knows how long anyone is in a job for but my trusted source tells me that the appointment of Calderwood is very much a permanent one and there is no suggestion at all he is going anywhere in January and is very much part of the project moving forward .
 
Noticed on a few of your posts recently that you seem really down on the club mate? With everything a new owner is trying to achieve with all the restrictions placed on him is there any reason why? 🤔
If it looks naive on the football pitch (the only bit I can get to see at the moment) and I can see it's not working -and it hasn't been- then I'm not going to pretend to be happy about it, it doesn't matter who is in charge of it. Again, really tough run to come now but just by starting to keep it simple instead of over complicating it looks in a better place doesn't it.
 
They are moaning though, probably those that stream ffa. I don't know what people expect- the clubs have to repay STH's and to make it £1 wouldn't do that. Also asimple case of supply and demand- we as BFC want to see BFC play and there is only one supply- Don't Like, Don't Stream, Don't Pay.

For a full tenner do people expect VAR as well?
No, but they do expect to see a full game without, buffering, picture dropping etc. Would you be happy if you bought a ticket to watch the game and four 6’6” blokes stood in front of you and refused to sit down, no I thought not.
 
I don’t think people moan about stumping up a tenner per say. I think it’s more about stumping up a tenner for a p**s poor service, although I appreciate its out of the clubs control.
The service was not designed for the purpose it's being used for atm, but it's all we have so live with it.
Had iFollow not already been in place we would have only had the radio and highlights until something was sorted, so at least the EFL got something right eventually.
For better quality to be achieved would involve higher costs and ultimately less revenue to the club unless you upped the price.
Then you lose low-income subscribers to illegal streams and you lose again.
It's not forever so just suck it up and support the wonderful new owner we have who is having to dig far deeper than expected.

Edit: I have never had any of the issues listed above and I have been using it since the stains departed.
So it cant be all iFollows doing it's more likely technophobes and /or inadequate equipment.
 
I don’t buy that Critchley and Calderwood were long planned first choices to take the club on from a period of ‘infighting’ but I do believe we can make it work now we have pulled the panic lever to bring in Calderwood.

biggest guffaw was BFC not having a good credit rating...they’d knock their own mothers if it meant an extra bottle of Bollinger at Claridges.
 
The service was not designed for the purpose it's being used for atm, but it's all we have so live with it.
Had iFollow not already been in place we would have only had the radio and highlights until something was sorted, so at least the EFL got something right eventually.
For better quality to be achieved would involve higher costs and ultimately less revenue to the club unless you upped the price.
Then you lose low-income subscribers to illegal streams and you lose again.
It's not forever so just suck it up and support the wonderful new owner we have who is having to dig far deeper than expected.
I pay for the games, so don’t include me in the dodgers. I don’t suffer from any of the problems in my post, I was merely quoting the problems some people have. If you read my initial post properly you would have seen I said it’s out of the control of the club. You probably didn’t read it properly because as usual you are to busy looking for someone to have a go at. Just grow up read posts as they are written and stop looking for an argument because you won’t get one here. Ignore activated.
 
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