Id happily give you 20 quid if Reform don't get elected, you on the other hand would have to give me 20 if they are and i don't want to inflict that on you.
New left wing party
- Thread starter JJpool
- Start date
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
Ok you're on, hopefully im sending you 20 after the next election
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
We'll see, as somebody else said hung parliament looks a good bet.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
poolseasider
Well-known member
Here and now all the experts/polling sites predict over 250 seats if there was a GE tomorrow Reform would win and that wouldn't be enough for a majority.
Four years and no one has a bloody scooby what's going to happen.
Will Labour/Cons improve?
Reform blow up?
Corbyn's new party gain momentum.
Libs the country stop taking them as a joke.
Etc etc.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
Best post of yours PS.
JJpool
Well-known member
Have read unconfirmed posts thay he was diagnosed not long after but who knows.
Tangerinemoss
Well-known member
So, back to the O/P.
It was wrong, the journalist was wrong, and the joke is on all those who ridiculed it
It was wrong, the journalist was wrong, and the joke is on all those who ridiculed it
JJpool
Well-known member
No it wasn't, he took a long time before he posted anything, even sky news were saying Corbyn has finally broken his silence, he had to respond didn't he.
Was independently verified by another paper and source.
Try researching for yourself maybe?
poolseasider
Well-known member
Well Sky and BBC News(International) as I'm away, that I've been watching last 24 hours have said it's been an utter farce.
Is the Joke on them?
Lala
Well-known member
To be honest if he does, this will just muddy the waters even more, and take Labours majority lower to non-existent, and that’s it.
Corbyn isn't going to tackle illegal immigration with any kind of exuberance, which is the main reason people are deflecting from the main parties.
He will get a few disenchanted left leaning stalwarts that Starmer has left behind, but many of those who Starmer picked up, myself included, are to the Centre and won’t go within a mile of Corbyn.
Think this move will help Reform.
Corbyn isn't going to tackle illegal immigration with any kind of exuberance, which is the main reason people are deflecting from the main parties.
He will get a few disenchanted left leaning stalwarts that Starmer has left behind, but many of those who Starmer picked up, myself included, are to the Centre and won’t go within a mile of Corbyn.
Think this move will help Reform.
Tangerinemoss
Well-known member
Keep digging that hole
Tangerinemoss
Well-known member
Tangerinemoss
Well-known member
You may be correct Lala, but the fact remains that there are a huge number of us who are currently politically homeless, as the Party we have supported all our adult lives has abandoned its basis for existence. It is way more than a few left leaning stalwarts, as shown by the numbers opposed to Starmer's cuts, in spite of the Labour list for the last GE being weeded out to eliminate the left. Whether or not Corbyn is the figurehead required ( not in a million years in my opinion) a new party will develop.
JJpool
Well-known member
Jesus, you're the one whos been caught out, 2 independent media sources and all over sky etc saying similar.
Yet one statement by the magic grandpa and you're taken in.
He was caught out by the announcement, that much is clear, clearly they'd been planning something but it clearly wasnt due to be announced just yet, but now it's is.
Its really not hard is it. He had 2 choices, deny it or go with it earlier than planned.
All you can do is double down. Just admit you were wrong.
He even corrected her co lead part to help 'us' build.
Tangerinemoss
Well-known member
Hahahahahaha
You do crease me up
There is no such thing as independent media, I prefer to listen to the participants themselves
Lala
Well-known member
Maybe the case Mossy, but I think my point was it’s just pinching Labour support from Labour support, and watering down the majority. Corbyn won’t be stealing any of the Tory or Reform vote.
Your Tories and Reform voters won’t bite, and if centre left think it’s scuppered Labours chance of another term they may return to Tory, or jump to reform as opposed to carry on voting Labour.
It’s a death knell move for Labour.
JJpool
Well-known member
The Times and the FT aren't joke papers. It's not like its from the Star..I don't see why it's so hard for you to believe she caught him off guard with this announcement. When a respected paper also says they spoke to sources close to Corbyn to confirm she jumped the gun and you still don't believe it, it just confirms you really cant think for yourself.
Tangerinemoss
Well-known member
hahahaha
Again, the insults
I can think for myself, thank you, I don't just swallow some line from people with an agenda
JJpool
Well-known member
You're the one who called me and others out for being wrong and digging a hole when I was right. You said the joke was on us all. It isn't though is it.
Its pretty clear when 2 respected papers hear the same thing.
Sven
Well-known member
Anything that says “sources suggest” or refers to “an insider” or similar should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Corbyn’s own words don’t seem the words of someone who as furious or bewildered as the initial post suggested.
It does look like Sultana may have jumped the gun on the announcement but it also looks like it’s happening. I think we’ll be looking a coalition governments for a long time, some right leaning some left leaning, effectively replacing the two main parties but not changing a huge amount policy wise because they all have to agree to push bills through.
Corbyn’s own words don’t seem the words of someone who as furious or bewildered as the initial post suggested.
It does look like Sultana may have jumped the gun on the announcement but it also looks like it’s happening. I think we’ll be looking a coalition governments for a long time, some right leaning some left leaning, effectively replacing the two main parties but not changing a huge amount policy wise because they all have to agree to push bills through.
JJpool
Well-known member
So you think his statement would come out and say I was annoyed about this but... nah.
Sven
Well-known member
He’s already gone from furious in the initial article to just frustrated in the Financial Times. I suspect there’s an element of truth to it but also an element of right wing commentators trying to create a storm in a teacup which is to be expected and happens on both sides.
I’d rather listen to what the Magic Grandpa (great nickname btw) says for himself and it seems like the party will be formed.
TSSeasider
Well-known member
This new party will attempt to galvanise all the Momentum supporters.
They will bee supportive of everything from being able to call yourself whatever sex you want and change it at will, taxing everyone, increasing benefits, scrapping our defence, and increasing overseas aid and be riddled with antisemitism etc etc. Pretty sure that will incorporate Black, white, red and green in their logo somehow.
The interesting thing will be do they capture the Muslim vote, as that's the unsaid aim. When it splits (as it will, the left love to factionalise) we will probably end up with a properly organised national Muslim party.
What that means for democracy, for representation etc etc will need to play out but it's something which seems inevitable.
They will bee supportive of everything from being able to call yourself whatever sex you want and change it at will, taxing everyone, increasing benefits, scrapping our defence, and increasing overseas aid and be riddled with antisemitism etc etc. Pretty sure that will incorporate Black, white, red and green in their logo somehow.
The interesting thing will be do they capture the Muslim vote, as that's the unsaid aim. When it splits (as it will, the left love to factionalise) we will probably end up with a properly organised national Muslim party.
What that means for democracy, for representation etc etc will need to play out but it's something which seems inevitable.
Lala
Well-known member
And for most of the reasons you have stated I wouldn’t even contemplate a vote for them. I’m sure there’s a seat warm for Dianne Abbott and her abacus though.
TSSeasider
Well-known member
I in they will probably get 10 MP's to start with and will work well with the SNP and possibly represent Sinn Fein as they are from the same stock.
Dianne Abbott appears hopeless whenever I see her on the telly; but she's been elected so often, her office must be doing something right for her constituents.
Tangerinemoss
Well-known member
Then so be it, Lala. Maybe a true left of centre party can come about again, as we have had for 100 years. Whilst I respect everyone's right to hold entirely different views to my own, I am by no means alone. The priorities rammed down our throats every day in the media, immigration, failing NHS due to poor management, must give tax breaks to obscenely wealthy people, no mention of corruption, underfunding everything from councils to our military, mental health crisis, reversal of diversity ( which actually means best person for the job, not discrimination). Inability to think consequences through (eg reducing foreign students visas is leading to the collapse of the University sector, stopping visas for care workers, leading to a shortage in carers). AI generated "news" which is false but widely disseminated, did you know the highest levels of courts in this country currently have a problem with lawyers citing cases following AI research, that don't exist? I will always be critical of Mr Grifter Farage (£(900)K plus from side jobs this Parliament plus biggest gifts) but the Health Secretary has accepted over £120K from Private Health Companies. WTF
The true irony in all this is that the old One Nation Tories, noblesse oblige and pro Europe, would probably be considered to the left of the current "Labour" Party. Maybe resurrect them?
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
Worrying.
What we might end up with is a parliament with 30 or so each of Lib Dems, SNP, Reform and Muslim, and neither of the main parties able to form a government
Lala
Well-known member
No, you are not on your own, and I am also politically homeless, but I’m more centre than you, so it wouldn’t work for me.
The reason why today’s climate is even less supportive of a left left government is the immigration issue. That is losing Labour voters now, and is no good to a new Corbyn Party.
Tangerinemoss
Well-known member
Since I wrote the above, still been mulling.
1 year ago, Labour had a landslide in MPs, based on the Tories incompetence and corruption?
Immigration, both legal and illegal, had grown throughout the Tories time in power, with virtually no one deported. Even Rwanda, if ever off the ground, would only have got rid of a few hundred. Meanwhile, a lot of businesses made a fortune housing immigrants before decisions were made, and those doing the deciding had their numbers cut. Starmer, for all his turns and vacillation, managed to deport more in a month than the previous Government had in a year. Staff numbers to decide cases have risen, processing times have been reduced.
It has now become the biggest issue for many voters, is never out of the media, and Reform are flying high in the polls.
Why is it the biggest issue now, yet wasn't a year ago with a worse problem?
Add your own conspiracy theory lol
Lala
Well-known member
I think illegal immigration is part of the reason some Tory voters defected to Labour. And Labour did make a big issue of ‘smashing the gangs.’
It’s been brewing and brewing, and numbers crossing the channel illegally have increased again this year, a 48% increase this year on the same period last year (a BBC stat).
How the Tories handled it is evident, and again part of the problem, and why voters are looking to a party who will take a more proactive approach to tackling the issue.
A lot other pressing political issues will continue to take a back seat, and get overlooked, until we have at least some resolution to this problem.
That’s why I don’t think any new Corbyn party will do anything other than split Labour’s vote.
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Lost Seasider
Well-known member
I doubt it, in fact I doubt any Conservative voters defected to Labour, they either stayed at home or voted reform.
The whole "smash the gangs" was obviously nothing more than a slogan with no meaningful policy behind it, I doubt any voter with more than one brain-cell would've ever believed it.
Lala
Well-known member
As a floater I went from right to left this time. So that would potentially be me then !
I’m in no-mans land now, as I’m too centre for Reform, although the policies they claim to be adopting now are more Corbyn’s than Tory !!!
It’s a total bl**dy mess.
BFC_53
Well-known member
If that poll turned out to be accurate, we're looking at Farage, Starmer, Badenoch, Davey and Corbyn leading the five largest parties.
How incredibly and utterly depressing that a great country like the UK can't come up with anyone better than those five.
TSSeasider
Well-known member
Immigration has been an issue for 25 years or more.
Remember Migration Watch being labelled fascists for reporting the figures of net migration as the Tony Blair government allowed unlimited migrants from EU accession countries as just about everyone else put limits on it.
We then had wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Zimbabwe went to shit under Mugagbe. Chuck in other regional conflicts in Africa.
We had family visas from our former Empire countries, like Pakistan and India which is fine; until we get the first cousin marriage situation and family's becoming larger. Then with all the new EU arrivals it just keeps adding up.
And then to top it off, they created a Ponzi Higher Education system, which relied on more and more foreign students paying top dollar - who were never really monitored actually just coming here to work and not leaving.
We have allowed tens of thousands of people per year and sometimes multiples of that and we did nothing to sort the infrastructure to deal with the population growth.
It's come to a head more because it's visible. No-one is buying the fleeing war zones - firstly because we aren't involved in any and secondly because the boats are leaving France, a safe, if incredibly racist country, which still abuses its colonial power in Africa.
It's come to a head because everybody is suffering from the lack of planning and infrastructure support.
It's come to a head because we have a population in prison which are full. And they are disproportionately foreign.
It's come to a head because we are spending £1bn a month in benefits to people who aren't citizens of this country
All of this is without mentioning the Pakistani rape issue, the nonsense about men becoming women and vice versa and the impact this has had, the fact that Albanians are running the drugs industry in this country which is wrecking people and communities.
Labour and Conservatives have failed to grasp that huge numbers of ordinary people are sick to the back teeth of being lectured to by the lanyard class who are able to immune themselves from the problems which our lack of immigration system has created.
Old_Laytonian
Well-known member
Blimey 86 posts on this? They are going nowhere and I think Reform will be disappointed at the next General Election.
Lala
Well-known member
Exactly this.
It’s a rational factual post TS. Many of us with previously held, more liberal attitudes to immigration, have really had enough.
The Albanian drug situation is quite terrifying, and we have no handle on it at all.
I used to have faith in literally whoever governed us being able to manage problems like these. But that’s gone now, and I have kids and grandchild whom I want to grow up in the relative safety with which I feel I did. And I’m not ashamed of that.
JJpool
Well-known member
It's also come to a head because at the levels of immigration the integration is far lower, if at all in some cases.
What sort of country is that building, where poeple priorities lie elsewhere and the country is unrecognisable.
Add in the boat people who can and could be anyone, the damage it's bringing with integration, crime etc, safety for women or men too.
We're a laughing stock and seen a weak by the major players, infact there was something the other week that said they're involved in it to weaken us from within.
TSSeasider
Well-known member
I worry because Reform and this new party will be complete opposites and I wouldn't trust either to run a bath.
It's an absolute mess and it's easy to see how civil wars start.
We appear to have forgotten how to compromise, or to work together for the greater good.
We need to find that and find it quickly if we want things to improve for your grandchildren.
For a while a government of national unity did a job in South Africa; feels like we need something similar.
Social media doesn't help (I get the irony of posting that here) but those algorithms to reinforce what you believe are stopping balance, which is what life is actually about.
TSSeasider
Well-known member
I think when we went from multi-racial to multi-cultural we messed up.
Multi-racial means living side by side under common British norms. Those norms built up over centuries.
Multi-culutural allows for the importing of Sharia law (as an example) which is completely against British culture.
The end product being ghettos of different cultures which didn't necessarily mix.
Sadly politicians weren't prepared for the impact this shift in thought process would lead to.
Lala
Well-known member
Yep agree again. There is nowhere for me to place my vote again, and it’s a sad state of affairs when so many of us feel we have run out of any viable options.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
Interesting piece in today's Guardian by Steve Coogan saying just that. His view is that Starmer's Labour is governing for those living inside the M25. If, he says, Labour focused more on those in other parts of the country who feel left behind by 45 years of rule by the NeoLiberals then the support for Reform would fade away.
Lala
Well-known member
Well unless Steve Coogan accepts the immigration elephant in the room, that many on the far left won’t acknowledge, then he’s missing a vital piece of the political jigsaw.
Lala
Well-known member
The number of Labour voters in 2025 who name immigration as a problem is 33%. That’s a third of the current support. If that isn’t heeded, by Steve Coogan or anyone else, then more fool them.
In the country as a whole the economy is the number one concern, closely followed by immigration with 49% of people calling it a major issue, and this number is following an upward trajectory.
In the country as a whole the economy is the number one concern, closely followed by immigration with 49% of people calling it a major issue, and this number is following an upward trajectory.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
The myth that has been created by right wing commentators is that people on the left of politics do not acknowledge the immigration issue. That is simply not true. However, it is not a black and white issue: us vs them. It is far more nuanced and requires intelligent, thought-through solutions.
TSSeasider
Well-known member
And who do you trust to create a solution and on what basis?
Lala
Well-known member
Yes, a lot of us are capable of nuanced intelligent thought, believe it or not, and we still class it as an issue.
poolseasider
Well-known member
It really is so condescending from the left on this issue.
I've said many times these new Reform supporters aren't all some right wing loons but normal Labour supporting voters.