South Africa has a population of 60 million, not much less than the UKs 68 million. Despite that, South Africa has done very little testing for Covid compared to the UK. South Africa has done a total of 19.4m tests (or 321 thousand tests per 1 million population) compared to the UK which has done a total of 359 million tests (or 5.2 million tests per 1 million population). We have done 18.5 times the number of tests compared with South Africa .So, I suspect the South African actual infection rates (and deaths) from Covid would be far, far higher than they have reported simply because they haven't done enough testing to evidence this.
New variant in South Africa
- Thread starter Hertsseasider
- Start date
Approx 25% vaccinated
Danny Ocean
Well-known member
The announcement of new covid measures the wearing of masks in shops is perfectly timed to coincide with Black Friday weekend, probably the
biggest weekend for online trading in the year. It is almost as if the politicians are deliberately acting for the large benefactors of this policy Amazon, Facebook, Google etc to finally finish off the high st, and especially small shops. Rather than acting in the interests of the public.
As it has been almost two years now since covid has been known about, in that time the main course of action to prevent infection has been to give vaccines, wear homemade and cheap Chinese masks and lockdowns. Yet no action has been taken to give free high-quality face masks and eye protection that actually work to the most vulnerable groups that the vaccines don't work on, and educate them how to use this ppe. Why is not necessary that anyone that provides personal services to these high-risk groups ( hairdressers, beauty treatments, cleaners, or carers etc ) have to wear high-quality ppe, instead they wear either homemade or cheap Chinese masks that don't work and often only when asked.
The excuse early in the pandemic was that we needed high-quality medical-grade ppe that could actually prevent covid infection for the front-line health workers. After two years with all the money spent why have we not started to manufacture these in the UK and provide them free to the most vulnerable groups, and free to the providers of their personal services.
Instead, we carry on with the charade of wearing masks that don't work in high st shops as being the way of reducing serious covid infections.
With most retailers selling 50% of the yearly sales in the Christmas period, the government is clearly pushing the message you are much safer
ordering online at home. But it is okay to go to the pub, have a haircut, go to a nightclub, do social dancing such as salsa, tango, etc, or even to go to a lap dancing club. Quite frankly I don't know how Boris and his two advisors can keep a straight face with their advice.
biggest weekend for online trading in the year. It is almost as if the politicians are deliberately acting for the large benefactors of this policy Amazon, Facebook, Google etc to finally finish off the high st, and especially small shops. Rather than acting in the interests of the public.
As it has been almost two years now since covid has been known about, in that time the main course of action to prevent infection has been to give vaccines, wear homemade and cheap Chinese masks and lockdowns. Yet no action has been taken to give free high-quality face masks and eye protection that actually work to the most vulnerable groups that the vaccines don't work on, and educate them how to use this ppe. Why is not necessary that anyone that provides personal services to these high-risk groups ( hairdressers, beauty treatments, cleaners, or carers etc ) have to wear high-quality ppe, instead they wear either homemade or cheap Chinese masks that don't work and often only when asked.
The excuse early in the pandemic was that we needed high-quality medical-grade ppe that could actually prevent covid infection for the front-line health workers. After two years with all the money spent why have we not started to manufacture these in the UK and provide them free to the most vulnerable groups, and free to the providers of their personal services.
Instead, we carry on with the charade of wearing masks that don't work in high st shops as being the way of reducing serious covid infections.
With most retailers selling 50% of the yearly sales in the Christmas period, the government is clearly pushing the message you are much safer
ordering online at home. But it is okay to go to the pub, have a haircut, go to a nightclub, do social dancing such as salsa, tango, etc, or even to go to a lap dancing club. Quite frankly I don't know how Boris and his two advisors can keep a straight face with their advice.
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker
SA official death toll to 14/11/21 - 89,720.
SA excess mortality to 14/11/21 - 226,750.
On a per capita basis that's not far off twice the UK death toll, and lets bear in mind that SA has a substantially younger population as well.
Wizaard
Well-known member
The bright side is that no-one has been hospitalised with it, and the symptoms are relatively mild. Maybe, just maybe, the virus is mutating to a point where it's less of a risk to life and health?
JJpool
Well-known member
Exactly, the majority of masks aren't fit for purpose, worn correctly or have any meaningful effect. As mentioned breath will take the path of least resistance and there's usually gaps around it or if not through it.
Yet now the government want to fine people for not wearing them, all in a big charade to be seen to be doing something to cover thier own backs imo.
Same with those screens we see about, there's evidence they trap the particles in rather than protecting people, but they remain as the business world are covering their arse in a bid to be seen to do something. We've already learnt the virus spread via aerosols yet we haven't largely changed the approach.
Wizaard
Well-known member
And yet the South African medics on the news last night were saying it was anything but deadly. Infectious, yes, with a higher transmission rate, but no-one has been hospitalised with it, and isolation is doing a job.
24 hour news channels have nothing else to do but report and ask daft questions. Don't watch it.
JJpool
Well-known member
The doctors and nurses has been explained, I think it's quite different when in surgery you have an open body its not desirable to have coughs and spit, sneezes etc in open wounds.
Masks do work against large droplets and the way we initially though covid spread.
Not so effective against aerosol spread.
Wizaard
Well-known member
Good for the environment though. Always a positiveThe UK shutting down of all flights to Southern Africa overnight has destroyed the upcoming tourist season for Christmas plus Jan/Feb etc.
After hard lockdowns over the last year or so this was definitely not needed for the tourist industry.
Boris and his clowns are not following the science at all. The variant has been in the UK and Europe since the 11th November at least. It didn’t just turn up on Thursday night
Edit: it didn’t just turn up on Thursday riding Bfcx3’s bike
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
The latest expert opinion on the effect of masks: https://avftt.co.uk/index.php?threads/new-variant-in-south-africa.26265/page-4
The evidence suggests that all types of face coverings are, to some extent, effective in reducing transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in both healthcare and public, community settings – this is through a combination of source control and protection to the wearer (high confidence).
The important words being "to some extent", they do not stop the virus from spreading completely, but they can slow it down and are something that can help, especially as part of a package of measures.
The evidence suggests that all types of face coverings are, to some extent, effective in reducing transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in both healthcare and public, community settings – this is through a combination of source control and protection to the wearer (high confidence).
The important words being "to some extent", they do not stop the virus from spreading completely, but they can slow it down and are something that can help, especially as part of a package of measures.
seasideone
Well-known member
Apparently SA has higher proportion of immune compromised people than most - mainly HIV.
Again, apparently the virus can mutate much quicker and more dramatically inside severely immune compromised people.
…or at least that’s what I read yesterday.
JJpool
Well-known member
Following the science? Covid doesn't spread if people are sat down or even just staying inside pubs, only when they leave does the virus activate, so a badly worn largely useless paper mask is then required.I’m in the pub now without a. A couple just left and put their masks on to walk out of the pub and then took them off as soon as they got outside. What’s that all about?
Always tangerine
Well-known member
Mask Wearing Linked To 53% Cut In New Covid-19 Cases—It’s The Best Public Health Measure Against The Virus, Study Finds
The measure has been a flashpoint during the pandemic, but researchers say it’s more effective than handwashing and physical distancing at reducing the incidence of Covid-19.
www.forbes.com
Towerpower99
Well-known member
Sturgeon and Drakeford are now urging for day 2 and day 8 testing along with 8 day isolation on entry to UK…..Just cost me an extra £56 to upgrade from a Lateral to a PCR.
Matesrates
Well-known member
Let’s just hope it only causes mild symptoms. If that’s the case, it’s probably good news because we’ll get to herd immunity faster.
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
Similar to the Indy Sage mob, Sturgeon and Drakeford will always demand whatever the government isn't doing.
M
Malced
Guest
I couldn’t give two shiney shites about this new variant.
Enough is enough. Get jabbed and live your life according to your own circumstances.
I’m not gonna succumb to fear mongering or any other psychological nonsense perpetrated by the mainstream media.
Liberty over lockdown.
Enough is enough. Get jabbed and live your life according to your own circumstances.
I’m not gonna succumb to fear mongering or any other psychological nonsense perpetrated by the mainstream media.
Liberty over lockdown.
Towerpower99
Well-known member
Politics politics politics … all of them do my head in.
Jaffa_The_Hut
Well-known member
9 cases reported so far on this afternoon’s news, spreading from England to Scotland.
SeasideKurt
Well-known member
Same, very annoying.Just cost me an extra £56 to upgrade from a Lateral to a PCR.
M
Malced
Guest
We’ve seen it all before.
A new infection. Then a ‘new variant’. It’s made it a way onto our shores. The first case detected. Then 5. Then 9. Then 50. Then surge testing. Then the announcement there’s community transmission. Then the ever increasing figures and the declaration of it being the dominant variant.
The press love it. They get everyone glued to their screens hanging on every word from every self proclaimed expert. They get the ones on who will say the government need to move faster and further and need to implement more and more restrictions. Anyone with an alternative view doesn’t get a look in. Or if they do manage to get onto our screens they’re soon shut down, if not ridiculed.
Well the effect of all this is to terrorise the elderly and the easily worried.
However, I for one won’t be playing this game for yet another winter. I’ve tuned out the media circus. Most of it is much ado about nothing.
There will always be new variants. It’s how viruses work. It’s inevitable.
If they are more severe or they evade our vaccine then let’s know about it when there’s something to be known. Until then it’s scaremongering and beyond cruel.
But it’s lapped up by the easily led and gullible who are already waxing lyrical about omnicrom and it’s protein spikes in between talking about coronation street. Take a look at yourselves will you?
A new infection. Then a ‘new variant’. It’s made it a way onto our shores. The first case detected. Then 5. Then 9. Then 50. Then surge testing. Then the announcement there’s community transmission. Then the ever increasing figures and the declaration of it being the dominant variant.
The press love it. They get everyone glued to their screens hanging on every word from every self proclaimed expert. They get the ones on who will say the government need to move faster and further and need to implement more and more restrictions. Anyone with an alternative view doesn’t get a look in. Or if they do manage to get onto our screens they’re soon shut down, if not ridiculed.
Well the effect of all this is to terrorise the elderly and the easily worried.
However, I for one won’t be playing this game for yet another winter. I’ve tuned out the media circus. Most of it is much ado about nothing.
There will always be new variants. It’s how viruses work. It’s inevitable.
If they are more severe or they evade our vaccine then let’s know about it when there’s something to be known. Until then it’s scaremongering and beyond cruel.
But it’s lapped up by the easily led and gullible who are already waxing lyrical about omnicrom and it’s protein spikes in between talking about coronation street. Take a look at yourselves will you?
Lytham_fy8
Well-known member
Completely agree.
RUSTY_2_STANDS
Well-known member
Another one here who completely agrees
Seasider3610
Well-known member
Seasider3610
Well-known member
Correct Wiz I didn’t consider that positive outcome of saving planet.
Do you think this variant could have kicked off in Glasgow though?
JJpool
Well-known member
So given covid will never go away the question shouldn't whether masks have a negligible affect, depending on the type of mask etc. The cheaper paper ones most use or cloth aren't much good.
The question should be when do we return to normality?
Covid will always be here, new variants will evade the vaccine spike protein despite the media ignoring the severe disease being way harder to evade, as it has to change itself from covid to evade the long term immunity.
Are we going to need masks forever then?
The question should be when do we return to normality?
Covid will always be here, new variants will evade the vaccine spike protein despite the media ignoring the severe disease being way harder to evade, as it has to change itself from covid to evade the long term immunity.
Are we going to need masks forever then?
Unfortunately, it doesn't work that straightforwardly. An infected person, if not picked up will infect many more people who will then infect many more, if unchecked and not subsequently isolated (which our testing programme is designed to do). This multiplier effect (R rate) witl be even more in a population with much lower vaccination rates.Ok 18.5 x 200 = 3700
3700 is still nowhere near the UK 45,000 per day is it
Old_Laytonian
Well-known member
Booster jabs for all over 18s now
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
Ok 18.5 x 200 = 3700
3700 is still nowhere near the UK 45,000 per day is it
Think about where their 30,000 or so tests a day are going for a minute please, then think about ours.
For them the vast majority are almost certainly going to wealthy white neighbourhoods that are mostly fully vaccinated, and live in the kind of circumstances where virus transmission is more difficult anyway.
Meanwhile in the black ghettos, where no-one is vaccinated, where conditions are ideal for the virus to spread like wildfire I'm willing to bet there's almost no testing at all.
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
Matesrates
Well-known member
Friend of mine’s dad died of covid last week, 65, double jabbed, but hadn’t bothered with the booster.
Towerpower99
Well-known member
Just read that 2 jabs can lose up to half of effectiveness by 6 months….booster puts it back up to Approx 94%…sorry for your friends father
Adams Kebab
Well-known member
I think you can watch it if you can see through the utter bullshit and aren’t afraid.
Sadly for too many of the population, this is not the case but that’s the main driver of this nonsense, fear.
Throughout this shambolic 20 months, I’ve argued the toss for a proportionate response to Covid that considers all aspects of our physical and mental wellbeing built on evidence. Instead we've endured a barrage of mostly ineffective measures that have sucked the joy out of life & in most cases made no sense at all.
To be even debating this after 20 months, with 90% plus meant to have antibodies and 3/4 of the UK double jabbed and getting boosted up is an absolute joke.
There’s always going to be a new variant and it’s blindingly obvious now people aren’t going to be ‘fully vaccinated’, this isn’t a way to live.
The other thing that makes me laugh is, we’ve had more news on the new variant that’s not actually that bad according the SA Chiefs then we did about some maniac trying to blow up a women and children’s hospital.
It’s a mad world
JJpool
Well-known member
There is a channel who's much more switched on with normal people and willing to ask the questions many of us will be thinking, rather then seemingly pushing fear and questioning why the government isn't locking down harder etc.I think you can watch it if you can see through the utter bullshit and aren’t afraid.
Sadly for too many of the population, this is not the case but that’s the main driver of this nonsense, fear.
Throughout this shambolic 20 months, I’ve argued the toss for a proportionate response to Covid that considers all aspects of our physical and mental wellbeing built on evidence. Instead we've endured a barrage of mostly ineffective measures that have sucked the joy out of life & in most cases made no sense at all.
To be even debating this after 20 months, with 90% plus meant to have antibodies and 3/4 of the UK double jabbed and getting boosted up is an absolute joke.
There’s always going to be a new variant and it’s blindingly obvious now people aren’t going to be ‘fully vaccinated’, this isn’t a way to live.
The other thing that makes me laugh is, we’ve had more news on the new variant that’s not actually that bad according the SA Chiefs then we did about some maniac trying to blow up a women and children’s hospital.
It’s a mad world
The mainstream media seem to thrive off the fear and lockdowns etc.
Because of the restrictions and uncertainty it's leading to things like cancellations at restaurants etc for Xmas and some are really worried now they could be in serious financial difficulty if they don't have a good Xmas.
Covid: 'We’ve had 20 cancellations in one weekend'
As worries emerge over a new Covid variant, hospitality fears it could thwart the busiest time of year.
www.bbc.co.uk
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southshorepool
Well-known member
So you're the one that watches it?There is a channel who's much more switched on with normal people and willing to ask the questions many of us will be thinking, rather then seemingly pushing fear and questioning why the government isn't locking down harder etc.
The mainstream media seem to thrive off the fear and lockdowns etc.
Because of the restrictions and uncertainty it's leading to things like cancellations at restaurants etc for Xmas and some are really worried now they could be in serious financial difficulty if they don't have a good Xmas.
Covid: 'We’ve had 20 cancellations in one weekend'
As worries emerge over a new Covid variant, hospitality fears it could thwart the busiest time of year.www.bbc.co.uk
JJpool
Well-known member
Well, youtube only. 310k+ subs after not too long isn't bad.
Generally speak way more sense than the mainstream channels.
Good to hear the opinions of normal people you'd meet and presenters allowed to give their opinion much more than usual.
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
A lot of it is politics, most of the broadcast media is left-leaning anti-Brexit, and are happy to stick the boot in whenever they can with "experts" that often are political activists instead.
Similarly the opposition parties have their own agendas. Labour are desperate for their "we told you so" moment, where they can pretend they would've done a better job of handling the pandemic, so they'll call for whatever measures the government isn't doing safe in the knowledge that they don't have to bear the cost of them and if they're subsequently proven wrong nobody will remember anyway.
An interesting article from (ex Labour MP) Tom Harris: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/29/many-left-want-lockdown/
Why do so many of my [Labour] acquaintances seem to regard the prospect of another lockdown with such equanimity? It may well be because, unless you happen to be employed by the NHS, public sector workers (as so many Labour Party members and activists are) were paid to remain at home for long periods of time while being entirely confident that their jobs remained safe and sound.
My perception is that there is a lack of empathy among many on the Left for people who work in the private sector, or indeed own a business, to whom the re-imposition of restrictions can cause great financial harm. Both the restaurant owner and the café barrister are expected to embrace financial uncertainty for the supposed greater good.
Which I think is something that also applies to an extent to the media, essentially isolated from the costs of lockdown they're happy to see them imposed on everyone else.
JJpool
Well-known member
Yeah but still a bizarre way of thinking, lockdown was fine for me but I hated seeing my home town shut down and other places and businesses struggling. Any normal person would....
Seasider3610
Well-known member
UK scientists designed world's most sophisticated COVID-19 sequencing system – here's how they did it - University of Birmingham
New bioinformatics software and cloud computing approaches developed at the University of Birmingham, have enabled the UK's COVID-19 genome sequencing effort to be the most sophisticated in the world.www.birmingham.ac.uk
“The most sophisticated in the world”
How did they not find the new variant when it’s been in Scotland since the beginning of November?
COP26