Obsessed with ball retention?

Ping Pong

Ping Pong

Well-known member
Will this "square & backwards" perseverance cost us?
I get so frustrated with our continual insistence of passing backwards & across the back 4 from one side to the other & back again. ZZZZZZZZ
I understand it's to try & make space, but its obvious to the opposition that we continually do this, so they obviously sit back, rest & wait.
Fine in injury time if we are winning, but why do it when losing, especially late on?
GET IT WIDE & PUSH FORWARD?
GET PLAYERS IN THE BOX!
OH & SHOOT!!!

Changes needed for Tuesday. Turton, Husband, Mitchell & Holmes to start?
Fat chance?
 
That is a frustrating aspect of our play, getting the ball down the wing and we pass it back to our centre halves from there.

It almost feels as if we're trying to play it too safe, which has put is in a more precarious position. It's the time of the season we need to be taking risks.
 
Ping Pong said:
Will this "square & backwards" perseverance cost us?
I get so frustrated with our continual insistence of passing backwards & across the back 4 from one side to the other & back again. ZZZZZZZZ
I understand it's to try & make space, but its obvious to the opposition that we continually do this, so they obviously sit back, rest & wait.
Fine in injury time if we are winning, but why do it when losing, especially late on?
GET IT WIDE & PUSH FORWARD?
GET PLAYERS IN THE BOX!
OH & SHOOT!!!

Changes needed for Tuesday. Turton, Husband, Mitchell & Holmes to start?
Fat chance?
Click to expand...
How does Turton and Husband change our problems? They just don't tbh.
 
TangerinePeel said:
That is a frustrating aspect of our play, getting the ball down the wing and we pass it back to our centre halves from there.

It almost feels as if we're trying to play it too safe, which has put is in a more precarious position. It's the time of the season we need to be taking risks.
Click to expand...
The coaching manual says don’t take risks, if we concede a goal it doesn’t matter about equalising just hang on to 0-1.
 
Ping Pong said:
Will this "square & backwards" perseverance cost us?
I get so frustrated with our continual insistence of passing backwards & across the back 4 from one side to the other & back again. ZZZZZZZZ
I understand it's to try & make space, but its obvious to the opposition that we continually do this, so they obviously sit back, rest & wait.
Fine in injury time if we are winning, but why do it when losing, especially late on?
GET IT WIDE & PUSH FORWARD?
GET PLAYERS IN THE BOX!
OH & SHOOT!!!

Changes needed for Tuesday. Turton, Husband, Mitchell & Holmes to start?
Fat chance?
Click to expand...
Three defenders (Mitchell can play further up but he's just OK) and a Cat 3 youth player is hardly going to change much.

We need forwards and midfielders and the cupboard is bare so tinkering with defence isn't going to win anything.
Play Mitchell give Simms a rest put Kaikai in the behind Yates, Ward right and Robson and Dougall centre and see how we go.
 
SeasideKurt said:
How does Turton and Husband change our problems? They just don't tbh.
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They are our best 2 full backs!
Without Turton we have lost our last 2 matches to poor sides!
He gets criticised for his lack of attacking ability, but hes been more attacking than Gabriel recently, who now passes back more than Turton!
We could play Garbutt & Gabriel as wingers? But they both have struggled recently & possibly need a rest, so play Mitchell either wing.
Kaikai is marmite, & maybe needs a rest too? He is not a winger & is far more effective in a roving role behing Yates.
Embleton is clearly NOT a winger, so why play him there, or at all?
 
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Ping Pong said:
They are our best 2 full backs!
Without Turton we have lost our last 2 matches to poor sides!
He gets criticised for his lack of attacking ability, but hes been more attacking than Gabriel recently, who now passes back more than Turton!
We could play Garbutt & Gabriel as wingers? But they both have struggled recently & possibly need a rest, so play Mitchell either wing.
Kaikai is marmite, & maybe needs a rest too? He is not a winger & is far more effective in a roving role behing Yates.
Embleton is clearly NOT a winger, so why play him there, or at all?
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We've lost more games with Turton than Gabriel. Not sure it makes a single bit of difference tbh.

Turton won't suddenly do anything. He puts one good cross in every other game. Rank average right back.

Our issues are further up the field.
 
Turton has come on absolutely leaps and bounds this season. If he had the athleticism of Gabriel or Mitchell he’d be by far the best wingback at this level and comfortably able to move up a division.
His positional sense is better than anyone at the club and his defending is just as good as Gretarsson who is by trade a CB.
Turton gets forward a hell of a lot and he’s very effective with the ball, rarely giving it away. His crossing has also massively improved and he regularly puts some wicked balls into the box.
He’s not going to beat his man for pace and he’s not got the natural instinct to drive in from a wide position like a winger would do and take a shot on goal (CJ) but I’d say Turton is definitely our best right back and if the midfield and attacking midfielders were more effective Turton would look even better as he’s be having to do less work and his ‘attacking’ wouldn’t be how he was being judged - which when you think about it is ludicrous as he does his job (RWB) almost perfectly every game he plays.
 
Davepick said:
He tries to play like Man City.
Unfortunately we have no Sterling, de Bruyne etc in the team.
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I think we do. Well, no, we don't, but when he unleashed Sullay, Embleton and Mitchell to have a go at doing what they do best, we achieved that attacking to defend style.

None of them are out of this world, but in different ways, they're capable of putting other teams on the back foot. That's what City do.

We've been like a cautious City for the last few games. Doing the passing, but not really in areas that make the other team worry very much.

The rigidity has returned after we'd looked really fluid for a bit.

Ironically, enough, I think some structure is probably the way to go versus Sunderland, but the last three games have cried out for more movement, more invention and more swapping positions and so on.

Tbf, most of the sides in playoff contention are feeling the pressure. It's not just us.
 
SeasideKurt said:
We've lost more games with Turton than Gabriel. Not sure it makes a single bit of difference tbh.

Turton won't suddenly do anything. He puts one good cross in every other game. Rank average right back.

Our issues are further up the field.
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Ur obviously watching a different game to me!
Or do you look at negatives more than positives.
He gets more crosses in tha Gabriel & also can cross with left foot too. If you look at stats you may notice more losses with him out!
 
Wizaard said:
They would allow Ward in particular to get further forward as there would be a more solid defence.
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Not sure I saw Ward get forward when Turton was in the side previously? The full backs, currently, make very little difference in open play.
 
Ping Pong said:
Ur obviously watching a different game to me!
Or do you look at negatives more than positives.
He gets more crosses in tha Gabriel & also can cross with left foot too. If you look at stats you may notice more losses with him out!
Click to expand...
He just doesn't though. Tell me a goal we've scored from a Turton cross? One area we definitely can do better in.
 
Our problems don't come from an obsession with ball retention, they come from our players sticking to their positions too rigidly - whether that's an instruction i've no idea. But it means the defence and holding mids have no options for a forward ball and it's dead easy to defend against.

Think back to our third goal against the Gills. Kaikai starts in his normal left sided position, but then moves right over to inside right and what do you know.....nobody tracks him and we score. I think that's the only time i've seen him 'roam'. Attacking players need freedom to be effective, and we have struggled all season to get the balance right between that, and defensive discipline.
 
Ping Pong said:
They are our best 2 full backs!
Without Turton we have lost our last 2 matches to poor sides!
He gets criticised for his lack of attacking ability, but hes been more attacking than Gabriel recently, who now passes back more than Turton!
We could play Garbutt & Gabriel as wingers? But they both have struggled recently & possibly need a rest, so play Mitchell either wing.
Kaikai is marmite, & maybe needs a rest too? He is not a winger & is far more effective in a roving role behing Yates.
Embleton is clearly NOT a winger, so why play him there, or at all?
Click to expand...
I think you’ll find that Turton started the Rochdale match...
 
LA1 Seasider said:
Turton has come on absolutely leaps and bounds this season. If he had the athleticism of Gabriel or Mitchell he’d be by far the best wingback at this level and comfortably able to move up a division.
His positional sense is better than anyone at the club and his defending is just as good as Gretarsson who is by trade a CB.
Turton gets forward a hell of a lot and he’s very effective with the ball, rarely giving it away. His crossing has also massively improved and he regularly puts some wicked balls into the box.
He’s not going to beat his man for pace and he’s not got the natural instinct to drive in from a wide position like a winger would do and take a shot on goal (CJ) but I’d say Turton is definitely our best right back and if the midfield and attacking midfielders were more effective Turton would look even better as he’s be having to do less work and his ‘attacking’ wouldn’t be how he was being judged - which when you think about it is ludicrous as he does his job (RWB) almost perfectly every game he plays.
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I take on board everything you say about Turton, all I will say is I personally will be very disappointed if he is offered a new contract.
 
Goforgoal said:
I take on board everything you say about Turton, all I will say is I personally will be very disappointed if he is offered a new contract.
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So arguably our most consistent performer, on the lowest wage (allegedly) & you want to bin him, despite agreeing to that post??🤔
& pay more for probably a less reliable replacement??
 
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I think we need Husband to bring in some urgency, help match them physically and inject a bit of clout into our side. They'll definitely be out to rattle us and lately we've been pretty rattlable (if that's a word). It doesn't seem to matter who's doing the crossing lately, 70 plus percent hit the first defender or go out of play. Just injecting a bit more urgency and directness (though not of the big boot to the front men variey) ought to help. We've been way too passive and borderline ponderous at times lately. Those things need to change if we are to have a chance of progressing.
 
We were brilliant for a few games and i thought we had really turned the corner, next season not matter division we are in we need tricky wide players that can beat a man and commit players. A ball playing midfielder, an experienced forward and keep Ballard and for me we would have the making of a top team, for now i'm happy with our position especially after the way we started the season, roll on tomorrow night!
 
TangerinePeel said:
That is a frustrating aspect of our play, getting the ball down the wing and we pass it back to our centre halves from there.

It almost feels as if we're trying to play it too safe, which has put is in a more precarious position. It's the time of the season we need to be taking risks.
Click to expand...
I agree....I think critchley had set us up to pinch a goal then try and protect it like in a lot of our previous games...this was asking for trouble as has been shown in quite a few of our performances.
 
we_need_a_bob_hatton said:
I agree....I think critchley had set us up to pinch a goal then try and protect it like in a lot of our previous games...this was asking for trouble as has been shown in quite a few of our performances.
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Yep, it was how we was getting results before and to be fair it put us in the position just below the play-offs and kept us in contention. I said at that time though now we're close I hope we take a risk as we'll never get promoted unless we score more goals - we started taking risks from the Burton game and more goals came and it was brilliant. It's almost as if now we're in the position we're back to playing it safe and its backfired!

I'd much rather us go down swinging attempting to win games than fall out the play-offs on a whimper.
 
TangerinePeel said:
Yep, it was how we was getting results before and to be fair it put us in the position just below the play-offs and kept us in contention. I said at that time though now we're close I hope we take a risk as we'll never get promoted unless we score more goals - we started taking risks from the Burton game and more goals came and it was brilliant. It's almost as if now we're in the position we're back to playing it safe and its backfired!

I'd much rather us go down swinging attempting to win games than fall out the play-offs on a whimper.
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I agree
 
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