Over 100 armed police officers hand their guns back in.

[Archibald Knox]

Unfortunately the odd bad apple can slip through the net as you’ve shown above.

Sadly, there has been more than one bad apple in the Met. The Macpherson Inquiry, following the murder of Stephen Lawrence, branded the whole organisation as “institutionally racist” in 1999. It’s fair to say, from ongoing incidents, that improving that attitude seems to be taking a few years. Some might disagree with that perception.

I am afraid that “a few bad apples” is the most common excuse provided by those apologists, in the face of the most evil behaviour in many large organisations. It may be true but not if it keeps reoccurring that means something in the organisation is allowing it to continue. But the excuse is usually deployed in order to minimise any ongoing criticism of the organisation itself and sweep the issues under the carpet. “Nothing to see here, we got rid of him, there are no others etc” Any worthwhile organisation must undergo continuous, honest, criticizing self-examination in order to improve.

There is a spectrum of behaviours from good to neutral to bad to evil. Couzens is at the extreme end of evil. For every one of him I expect there would be hundreds of bad-uns, thousands of neutrals and tens of thousands of good ones amongst the Met’s 43,000 officers and staff. Organisational culture is a living breathing thing that has to be tamed, controlled and directed well so that its members effectively police themselves (pun intended).

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

We talk about a ‘few bad apples’ but according to the headline of the O/P 100 armed officers have handed their weapons back in?

So that’s 100 fire-arms officers who presumably feel / felt like they are above the law / recrimination?

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

We talk about a ‘few bad apples’ but according to the headline of the O/P 100 armed officers have handed their weapons back in?

So that’s 100 fire-arms officers who presumably feel / felt like they are above the law / recrimination?

The only bad apples in society are the criminals.
If they weren’t out there the Police wouldn’t need arming in the first place.
A few are always quick to criticise our Police force but to my knowledge (and I stand corrected) it’s the only Police force in the world that it’s officers aren’t armed as standard procedure.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

The only bad apples in society are the criminals.
If they weren’t out there the Police wouldn’t need arming in the first place.
A few are always quick to criticise our Police force but to my knowledge (and I stand corrected) it’s the only Police force in the world that it’s officers aren’t armed as standard procedure.

Unfortunately, the Police 'Force' is littered with criminals and it has ever been thus. Individuals who believe that donning a costume is a license to engage in illegal behaviour.

Of course, there are obviously Police Men and Women who presumably have the very best intentions, but nonetheless, they get dragged down by the criminal element within their ranks and to some extent they are culpable of turning a blind eye. From my own experience the Police Force is systematically bent (and I say that as someone who has no Criminal Convictions whatsoever). In fact it is so fundamentally bent that the individual officers are actually completely unaware and ignorant to the fact that simple day-to-day behaviour and practices are problematic. In my view, there's not a Police Force in the UK that would stand up to even the most basic level of scrutiny.

This 'handing in of weapons' is just another example and it demonstrates a level of arrogance and a complete lack of respect for the process, the law and appropriate standards and protections for the public. We don't need people with that level of arrogance and disregard for public safety to be holding weapons in the first place IMHO.

 

[Paradiddle_01]

I would imagine that the officer's legal team will base their defence around S.117 of PACE, which brings the officer's mindset at the time of squeezing the trigger into play.
How someone's view of something at the critical time can be proven one way or the other is tremendously difficult.

If 5 of us off this site saw 'an incident', then the liklihood would be that we would all have seen something different occur.
The split second decision to take a head shot, rather than a torso shot, aligned with the other marginal split second decision to shoot / not shoot at all is not one the majority on this board, thankfully will ever have to take.

Whatever the outcome of the trial yet to come is anybody's guess, but the evidence does need to be tested and questioned.

 

[seasiderjohn]

I would imagine that the officer's legal team will base their defence around S.117 of PACE, which brings the officer's mindset at the time of squeezing the trigger into play.
How someone's view of something at the critical time can be proven one way or the other is tremendously difficult.

If 5 of us off this site saw 'an incident', then the liklihood would be that we would all have seen something different occur.
The split second decision to take a head shot, rather than a torso shot, aligned with the other marginal split second decision to shoot / not shoot at all is not one the majority on this board, thankfully will ever have to take.

Whatever the outcome of the trial yet to come is anybody's guess, but the evidence does need to be tested and questioned.

totally agree with the decision making also difficult to take a torso shot when he was sat behind the wheel only head and shoulders possibly visible above dashboard?

 

[April13th1970]

They've obviously never heard of Gerry Richardson.

I'll never forget him, I remember, as an 8 year old, standing outside our house watching his funeral procession set off as he had lived further down our street

 

[Davepick]

I'll never forget him, I remember, as an 8 year old, standing outside our house watching his funeral procession set off as he had lived further down our street

Had the occasional game of snooker with Gerry at Norbreck Bowling and Tennis Club.
Nice guy.

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

Unfortunately, the Police 'Force' is littered with criminals and it has ever been thus. Individuals who believe that donning a costume is a license to engage in illegal behaviour.

Of course, there are obviously Police Men and Women who presumably have the very best intentions, but nonetheless, they get dragged down by the criminal element within their ranks and to some extent they are culpable of turning a blind eye. From my own experience the Police Force is systematically bent (and I say that as someone who has no Criminal Convictions whatsoever). In fact it is so fundamentally bent that the individual officers are actually completely unaware and ignorant to the fact that simple day-to-day behaviour and practices are problematic. In my view, there's not a Police Force in the UK that would stand up to even the most basic level of scrutiny.

This 'handing in of weapons' is just another example and it demonstrates a level of arrogance and a complete lack of respect for the process, the law and appropriate standards and protections for the public. We don't need people with that level of arrogance and disregard for public safety to be holding weapons in the first place IMHO.

There’s around 135,000 Police officers in England and Wales I can name 3 possibly 4 cases without deliving into the archives where a Police officer has been arrested for an offence/crime.

So It’s far from ‘littered’ as you say in your opening comments.

 

[Mexboroseasider]

There’s around 135,000 Police officers in England and Wales I can name 3 possibly 4 cases without deliving into the archives where a Police officer has been arrested for an offence/crime.

So It’s far from ‘littered’ as you say in your opening comments.

This is the current position with the Met.

‘Size of a small police force’ of Met officers are suspended or on restricted duties | Metropolitan police | The Guardian

Scotland Yard says it will take ‘two or more years to root out those who are corrupting policing’

amp.theguardian.com

If I wanted to delve back into the archives I could mention Commander Virgo and the Vice Squad in Soho who were root and branch corrupt. And many of whom went to prison.

Or the corrupt detectives who covered up the murders in South London of private investigator Daniel Morgan (he was about to disclose massive corruption in the Met) and Stephen Lawrence (one of whose killers was the son of a notorious South London gangster with connections with the same detectives).

Or the officers in the Met who sold confidential information to tabloid newspapers as revealed by the Leveson enquiry (via coincidentally a detective agency linked to the deceased Daniel Morgan).

And if you want to come a bit closer to home you could consider Stanley Parr, Chief Constable of Lancashire, his association with Tory Party donor Bill Harrison and the deaths of two young women on Preston New Road.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

There’s around 135,000 Police officers in England and Wales I can name 3 possibly 4 cases without deliving into the archives where a Police officer has been arrested for an offence.

So It’s far from ‘littered’ as you say in your opening comments.

Around 1 in every 100 Police officers faced criminal charges (including Sexual Assault) in 2022 alone, according to an investigation carried out by the Observer. It's also getting worse year on year...And that's just the stuff that actually reaches that stage. I found the statistics somewhere last time we had a similar which demonstrated that Police Officers were significantly more likely to be involved in Domestic Violence or Violent Assault than many professions.

And that's all before we get into the institutional stuff, the custom and practice kind of things that just go on unnoticed... We'd be screwed without a Police Force of course, but nonetheless we can do a whole lot better than what we have right now.

 

[Mexboroseasider]

Government response to the report of the Daniel Morgan Independent Panel

www.gov.uk

Here’s the recent government response to the Daniel Morgan Independent Enquiry which reported a couple of years ago.

Read Appendix A and you’ll get a brief summary of events.

Even a cursory glance of the substantive parts will confirm the problem is more than a few “bad apples”. Or that it is a problem which lies in the past and that the Met has now got its act together.