points based immigration

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Well, given the near-universal condemnation of the policy from business groups, you have to think there are some significant consequences that perhaps haven't been fully thought through, which is a sign of things to come with this government.

The politics of it make perfect sense though, and Johnson will see it as appeasing his newly-won voters in former Labour areas. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of this particular policy, he will see it as following through on his promises and the electorate may well buy into that.

The notion that the "economically inactive" population can suddenly be brought into the workforce to fill all the vacant roles that this system will create is somewhat laughable however, unless there are some pretty large cuts to the welfare system down the pipe. Again, with this government and the size of the majority you wouldn't put it past them.

You do have to wonder though, that if this system could have the result of allowing lots of qualifying non-UK citizens taking all the well paid jobs relegating a large portion of the native population into the "low-skilled" sector. Maybe that's the plan?
 
I’d like to research if it works well economically in Australia and if so why would the UK encounter significant problems that they don’t?
 
The implications for our own benefits system have barely been mentioned on TV today. But they are potentially huge.
 
Surely this is a starting point and if it does not acheive what they are hoping for then it can be changed. If the general populace don't like the system then, if they feel strongly enough about it, they can change the government at the next election.
 
onedavebamber said:
Well, given the near-universal condemnation of the policy from business groups, you have to think there are some significant consequences that perhaps haven't been fully thought through, which is a sign of things to come with this government.

The politics of it make perfect sense though, and Johnson will see it as appeasing his newly-won voters in former Labour areas. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of this particular policy, he will see it as following through on his promises and the electorate may well buy into that.

The notion that the "economically inactive" population can suddenly be brought into the workforce to fill all the vacant roles that this system will create is somewhat laughable however, unless there are some pretty large cuts to the welfare system down the pipe. Again, with this government and the size of the majority you wouldn't put it past them.

You do have to wonder though, that if this system could have the result of allowing lots of qualifying non-UK citizens taking all the well paid jobs relegating a large portion of the native population into the "low-skilled" sector. Maybe that's the plan?
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Massive welfare reform ?

Not before time.
 
Let's kick more people out of the country, as proposed by Jeremy Corbyn:

“If there was a case of a young white boy with blond hair who later dabbled in class A drugs, and conspired with a friend to beat up a journalist, would he deport that boy? Or is it one rule for black boys from the Caribbean and another for white boys from the United States?”
 
Well it's a live experiment on economic theory here and now. If they don't massively bend the rules and create exception after exception, the obvious theory is that jobs will have to be filled by the existing non-working population of this country. Also, theoretically it will reduce the demand on the welfare state and increase consumption at a local level (money is not 'sent back home' but is saved within UK based banks or spent locally).
It is what many have been asking for, for decades - 'local jobs for local people'.

All that said, when the jobs cannot be filled as the non-working population either cannot or will not take the positions required to be filled, wages will have to rise and ultimately services and goods become more expensive.
It is going to be very very interesting to see how all this pans out.
 
voyeur said:
Let's kick more people out of the country, as proposed by Jeremy Corbyn:

“If there was a case of a young white boy with blond hair who later dabbled in class A drugs, and conspired with a friend to beat up a journalist, would he deport that boy? Or is it one rule for black boys from the Caribbean and another for white boys from the United States?”
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And we haven't extradited/deported any Eastern Europeans? I take it you are referring to the plane load of criminals sent back to Jamaica?
 
Perhaps the Employers who have coined it, employing cheap foreign labour, and having taxpayers subsidising the wages with tax credits, may have to pay a higher wage. The overseas staff already here can remain, so the effect will be gradual.
 
Chunkylad said:
Well it's a live experiment on economic theory here and now. If they don't massively bend the rules and create exception after exception, the obvious theory is that jobs will have to be filled by the existing non-working population of this country. Also, theoretically it will reduce the demand on the welfare state and increase consumption at a local level (money is not 'sent back home' but is saved within UK based banks or spent locally).
It is what many have been asking for, for decades - 'local jobs for local people'.

All that said, when the jobs cannot be filled as the non-working population either cannot or will not take the positions required to be filled, wages will have to rise and ultimately services and goods become more expensive.
It is going to be very very interesting to see how all this pans out.
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Why do we allow people not to take jobs and still pay them benefits?
 
Old_Laytonian said:
And we haven't extradited/deported any Eastern Europeans? I take it you are referring to the plane load of criminals sent back to Jamaica?
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Both face prejudice do they not? Romanians/Jamaicans? But the point being made I think is that black criminals are being singled out. And black non criminals, in the Windrush cases.
 
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Chunkylad said:
Well it's a live experiment on economic theory here and now. If they don't massively bend the rules and create exception after exception, the obvious theory is that jobs will have to be filled by the existing non-working population of this country. Also, theoretically it will reduce the demand on the welfare state and increase consumption at a local level (money is not 'sent back home' but is saved within UK based banks or spent locally).
It is what many have been asking for, for decades - 'local jobs for local people'.

All that said, when the jobs cannot be filled as the non-working population either cannot or will not take the positions required to be filled, wages will have to rise and ultimately services and goods become more expensive.
It is going to be very very interesting to see how all this pans out.
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Seems simple to me, after being on benefits for a period of time (say 6 months) and if you are deemed fit for work, if you don't have a job you will be allocated one. If you don't accept or do the job deliberately badly you will have all benefit stopped. Not hard is it and make make the generational benefit recipients responsible. Have never understood why we need to bring in people from the EU to undertake some jobs whilst we continue to pay benefits to fit and able uk citizens. I dont care if they feel the job is beneath them or doesn't pay well, tough sh1t. Get a job or be given one, watching daytime TV is over.
 
There’s a certain irony in the fact that Priti Patel’s parents wouldn’t have qualified under the new rules.

The new system is heavily flawed. If the assumption is, UK people will be queuing up to fill the lower paid then I think they’re going to be disappointed.

I’ve seen first hand what the work ethic of lower paid Europeans is over here. There’s absolutely no chance of the majority matching their performance. They make a genuine contribution to the enconomy.
 
Beagle said:
Surely this is a starting point and if it does not acheive what they are hoping for then it can be changed. If the general populace don't like the system then, if they feel strongly enough about it, they can change the government at the next election.
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Do you seriously think that the Tory Govt. will take any notice of 'Public Opinion' now?
No chance, they've got the majority to do ANYTHING they want to do.
They couldn't 'give a sh!t' now they've got power. 😕
 
We've had a points based systems for decades.

There were just so many exceptions, EU freedoms of movement being one.
 
Simples, if you feel the need to ask me, if I would like milk in my tea when I order it, then that is automatic deportation. Got a sideways glance when I enguired if they had forgotten to butter my baguette in subway, like I was completely insane for even thinking it, never been back.

I do ofcourse jest about deportation, but the butter incident 15 odd years ago has made me never set foot in a subway since.
 
‘Public opinion ‘ do you mean the silent majority. Those who have worked all or most of their lives, whilst quietly fuming that their taxes have been used to keep the feckless and their many kids at home all day. I don’t think they will be marching in protest. If this or any other government can get those lazy Bs off benefits and into work they will get my vote. The welfare system has been abused for many years and mainly by born and bred brits. If this is the only way to get them to work, then so be it, and hurrah about time.
 
Davepick said:
Do you seriously think that the Tory Govt. will take any notice of 'Public Opinion' now?
No chance, they've got the majority to do ANYTHING they want to do.
They couldn't 'give a sh!t' now they've got power. 😕
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Who said anything about public opinion. I said if it doesn't achieve what they (the Tories) are hoping for then they can change it.
 
I think the other issue is we would probably have to relocate people to where the jobs are too.
Take Lincolnshire, all the picking jobs on farms are covered by immigrants in the main - it is a tough, back-breaking job in outdoor conditions. There maybe not enough locals fit and able and out of work to cover this demand, so the Govt would need to impose compulsory relocation which I imagine would then get challenged in court under human rights issues?

Another option is to let it fall to market forces, import cheap food from Africa (forget the environment...) and if farmers can fulfill their labour needs they need to sell up and move on? As I said, it will be an interesting experiment and would take some real hard-nosed attitudes to really make it work.
 
In my somewhat varied career, I have worked in food manufacturing, hospitality and retail. These "low paid" jobs are minimum wage, like a lot in this country. All those jobs, and add in healthcare and homecare, and we simply do not have enough people who live in the right place to do them. I know we all know people who don't work, but should. However, there are nowhere near enough of them, and they do not live in the right places to do these jobs. This is a complete cluster fxck of a policy by a government who simply have not enough experience of the real world. And the fact that they have just classed loads of nurses, midwives, physios and the like as unskilled, due to their payrates. Are you all really going to support this? If you are, don't whinge when your fresh fruit and vedge has gone up, your relatives cannot get home or health care, and your meat and ready meals can't be found.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
In my somewhat varied career, I have worked in food manufacturing, hospitality and retail. These "low paid" jobs are minimum wage, like a lot in this country. All those jobs, and add in healthcare and homecare, and we simply do not have enough people who live in the right place to do them. I know we all know people who don't work, but should. However, there are nowhere near enough of them, and they do not live in the right places to do these jobs. This is a complete cluster fxck of a policy by a government who simply have not enough experience of the real world. And the fact that they have just classed loads of nurses, midwives, physios and the like as unskilled, due to their payrates. Are you all really going to support this? If you are, don't whinge when your fresh fruit and vedge has gone up, your relatives cannot get home or health care, and your meat and ready meals can't be found.
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I have never had any problems finding my own meat & veg Thank you very much Sir, and will hopefully not require any outside assistance in the foreseeable future, touch WOOD.
 
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