Old_Laytonian
Well-known member
Just put BBC News on and they are majoring on the EU elections.Why? I voted remain but couldn't give a shit about the EU now.
Reform ⬆️ Conservatives ⬇️
- Thread starter JJpool
- Start date
JJpool
Well-known member
Wizaard
Well-known member
Define non front line? I presume you mean surgical staff.
There are still plenty of absolutely essential people in the NHS who don't go anywhere near surgery, such as those booking appointments,the porters, the cleaners, the IT, etc etc etc. It's a simplistic trope to say they don't make a difference.
There was a recent programme showing the day to day life of St James hospital in Leeds. Because of 'efficiencies', there were no admin staff to book theatres so senior surgeons were spending hours on the phone trying to book theatre time.
Good use of resources?
3% of NHS staff are management, the UK average is 10%. I won't pretend to know anything about working in the NHS or how it can be improved, but when I saw that figure it floored me as the conventional wisdom is it's full of middle managers pushing pencils. When I saw it, I wondered if some of the problems were being caused by not enough management, with front line workers not being able to spend as much time on the ward floors due to having to double up as the admin. Sounds like this programme was kind of showing that?
tangerine_neil
Well-known member
I’m going to make a prediction that this election will be the end for the Lib Dems.
Wizaard
Well-known member
They will get far more seats than Reform. They will be the main opposition to the Tories in the South and West of England.
tangerine_neil
Well-known member
Depends who gets the protest votes in areas that traditionally vote for the Tories. I’m expecting a near complete wipeout for Lib Dems, SNP in Scotland going back to Labour and worst case scenario for Tories
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Some pundits are saying they could end up with as many seats as the Tories.
If not quite a bit more. There's a real chance Ed Davey is Leader of the Opposition after the election.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Roll on 5th July.A_Tense_Grin
Well-known member
I'd vote Reform simply because they are the only party who have committed to raising the tax thresholds.
ElBurroSinNombre
Well-known member
ElBurroSinNombre
Well-known member
More evidence why Reform are not a serious party;
Reform UK candidate apologises over Hitler neutrality comments
Ian Gribbin says his grandparents were "Russian Jews fleeing persecution" and his comments were taken out of context.
www.bbc.com
Macseasider
Well-known member
I bet they don't know what to. And I bet they would be more likely to lower them. Not that Reform will ever get the chance.
Costero Poderoso
Well-known member
Without doubt the NHS needs reform, the first one would be to run it as a health SERVICE with all that implies, not some psuedo corporate entity, with customers. Ever since Thatcher introduced the internal market place into the NHS, Blair extended it, but I cant remember off hand what moniker he gave the corporatist extension, and brown made it worse through PPP, PFI and his love of off balance sheet accounting, it has suffered because the priority is predominantly financial, and institutional not peoples health. Because it's run as a "business" health management is delivered as almost all modern corporate entities are: just about enough service for minimal expenditure and minimal investment.
The problem for a future NHS, an ageing population, a younger populace that has more chronic illness will break the NHS but the solution is not privatised medicine and private insurance, which by its very nature even if the health care is free at source through insurance, all of the ancillary parts of the service are profitised, insurance, drugs, etc, the two items drugs and insurance is what is breaking or has already broken the US health system to the point where a third of population as a very minimum don't have much in the way of health care and many more possibly as much as three quarters don't have complete health coverage.
Many of the chronic health problems that many live with cannot be solved by the NHS, the NHS can provide in some cases treatment but there is a much wider problem with a general population that is stressed because of: low wages, high housing costs, high energy and food costs, low quality food, etc etc etc.
Raising the personal allowance threshold is great. But moving the 40% tax bracket to 70,000 is a massively expensive policy giving rich people money during a cost of living crisis. Why should individuals in the top 10% be gifted thousands of pounds in tax cuts?
I'm also not sure large tax cuts with questionable methods of funding has worked really well for us recently.
A_Tense_Grin
Well-known member
All I know is that freezing the thresholds means a lot of hard working folk are paying 40% tax and getting stung with less money in their pocket every year.
I'm not saying should be raised to 70k but I'd like it to be at least 50k.
People in this bracket also need money in their pocket to spend and boost the economy. This is why I won't be spending £51 on match day tickets watching Blackpool.
This is the only thing I am pissed off with the Conservatives about. If Jeremy Hunt raised the thresholds or gave an indication it won't be frozen until 28, they would get my vote.
Matesrates
Well-known member
If Rishi continues his gaffes then they might well do
ElBurroSinNombre
Well-known member
It is 50k already
What is the 40% Tax Bracket? | The Accountancy Partnership
Pay rises, bonuses, getting new clients on board – they’re all incredibly exciting and you should take some time to celebrate each...
www.theaccountancy.co.uk
Oh dear.It is 50k already
What is the 40% Tax Bracket? | The Accountancy Partnership
Pay rises, bonuses, getting new clients on board – they’re all incredibly exciting and you should take some time to celebrate each...
Fwiw, 50k puts someone in the top 16%. Reform's tax breaks go all the way up to top 8%. This is on top of further tax breaks to rich people using private healthcare. They do like giving a lot of money to the rich don't they?
bollieboy
Well-known member
Yep, £50k sounds fine. What is it at the moment ?
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
Err, because it's world news.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
And that's how Tories put up taxes. Simples.
Wespens
Well-known member
Vote Reform and this is what you’re getting ..
A Reform UK candidate has apologised for claiming the country would be "far better" if it had "taken Hitler up on his offer of neutrality" instead of fighting the Nazis in World War Two.
Ian Gribbin, the party's candidate in Bexhill and Battle, also wrote online that women were the "sponging gender" and should be "deprived of health care".
In posts from 2022 on the Unherd magazine website, seen by the BBC, he said Winston Churchill was "abysmal" and praised Russian President Vladimir Putin
A Reform UK candidate has apologised for claiming the country would be "far better" if it had "taken Hitler up on his offer of neutrality" instead of fighting the Nazis in World War Two.
Ian Gribbin, the party's candidate in Bexhill and Battle, also wrote online that women were the "sponging gender" and should be "deprived of health care".
In posts from 2022 on the Unherd magazine website, seen by the BBC, he said Winston Churchill was "abysmal" and praised Russian President Vladimir Putin
The worst part of it is their official spokesperson agreed with it.
The person who speaks on behalf of the party and represents its view said that it is "probably true" that the UK should have stayed neutral. I struggle to see why a Reform voter furious at Sunak for leaving D-Day should be any less furious at this. A disgusting statement from a party clearly sick of having to scrap dozens of candidates for being racists or fascist so has started to defend these idiots. Was always going to happen.
glasshalffull
Well-known member
I
Yes well said. The Blair/Brown government certainly wasn’t a one way ticket for the NHS, and PFI mass use was a hostage to the future. They did improve the NHS overall though IMO.
Any introduction of a private insurance system would likely be a very big wedge to blast the whole thing open for the waiting carpetbaggers, and no doubt would be peddled as a have your cake and eat it health system by the usual suspects.
Yes well said. The Blair/Brown government certainly wasn’t a one way ticket for the NHS, and PFI mass use was a hostage to the future. They did improve the NHS overall though IMO.
Any introduction of a private insurance system would likely be a very big wedge to blast the whole thing open for the waiting carpetbaggers, and no doubt would be peddled as a have your cake and eat it health system by the usual suspects.
EdgeleyTangerine
Well-known member
Anyone voting reform in the election is an idiot.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
So Farage turns up gurning at the D Day commemoration hoping to win a few brownie points, while one of his minions is saying we should have surrendered immediately when Hitler offered terms.
Anyone going to try to defend this?
Costero Poderoso
Well-known member
Personally I think the 40% tax bracket should be over 100K, bearing in mind the average house price in the UK is only just under 300K; average wage should be somewhere close based on sensible mortgage security and mass wealth building capacity and maintain a consumption based economy, average wage is only just over 40K or about 36 depending on the calculation of average.
Currently UK tax take is about 900 billion or just under 40% of GDP up from 34ish% in 2022, France is almost 50%, Germany is around 38 or was as of 2022. The reality is that the UK probably needs to take around 1.2 trillion pounds per annum for a decade or so, so it can actually start fixing the myriad of problems that it has, and funding the tax cuts to workers necessitates finding that additional money elsewhere. I would suggest low hanging fruit of major corporations paying their fair share raising 200 to 300 billion,
A wealth tax on the top 2-3% of companies and individuals and a company value tax again for companies at the very top end of the economic spectrum if instigated over a ten year period would raise upwards of 6 trillion pounds. I would also suggest a reform of the tax code to benefit productive work and productive investment, lowering it, and non productive income and investment with progressively higher tax. The banking sector needs to come in for some special treatment with in particular their financing of non productive rentier schemes to be taxed at both ends of the process, taxing the loans and taxing the profits. The whole point is to stifle asset inflation which is a much bigger stress on the economy than wage inflation. There's also a good case for a lot of the social security payments being cut and forcing companies to pay living wages. Some research we were doing a couple of years ago showed a particular tax avoiding global corp, had just 15% of staff who could meet the requirements of a wealth building capacity to their wages, a whopping 30% of full time employees had some need of social security payment to supplement wages. It should not happen.
I think there is a very good argument for regional tax codes, 100K in London isn't a high salary, 100K in blackpool is huge. that would also help with a redistribution of people and companies around the country rather than the mass exodus to major urban centres.
all pie in the sky i know, but i live in hope.
JJpool
Well-known member
Could say that about the greens too. There's definitely some on the left getting a bit annoyed now, it was all funny when Reform were nobodies on a few % months back, then it was no seats, now it's possible it could be double the amount of vote ukip, maybe beat the tories and get and a handful of seats, plus either the Tories wiped out or a complete rebuild of the right with Reform and Farage in prime position either way.More evidence why Reform are not a serious party;
Reform UK candidate apologises over Hitler neutrality comments
Ian Gribbin says his grandparents were "Russian Jews fleeing persecution" and his comments were taken out of context.www.bbc.com
I think the polls aren't fully representing the real feeling out there.
JJpool
Well-known member
A low tax, high growth strategy is clearly what they're going for, aiming to keep and attract businesses in the UK.
Everyone wins from such an approach.
Give the richest more money, this time it will trickle down to the peasants, we promise. Let's just keep giving the rich more money. Just a few thousand more, we promise, this time it will trickle down. Just a bit more money to the rich. I swear.
JJpool
Well-known member
Is that a poem?
Be worth millions one day that
JJpool
Well-known member
It doesn't even rhyme which always annoys me with poems.
Here.
The party Reform's on the charge,
Out the way Tories give them a barge,
Much upset they did cause,
Give a big round of applause,
To the main man Mr Farage.
That's enough avftt for me today I think
Macseasider
Well-known member
Don't worry pal. Come the 5th of July you'll not here of them again until the next election with a new name. Borage or something.
Wizaard
Well-known member
England First
Macseasider
Well-known member
Ooh good name Wiz. Think you're onto something there.
TickTock
Well-known member
Do you know what's interesting is, and I watch a lot of news, how many undecided there are who voted Tory last time.
Don't fancy Labour, Reform look a whim and the Lib Dems are just slapstick.
I predict the Tories will get around 35% of the vote and it will be a lot closer because the way our electoral system works than people think.
Labour majority of about 40 and instant questions about Starmer as a leader.
Don't fancy Labour, Reform look a whim and the Lib Dems are just slapstick.
I predict the Tories will get around 35% of the vote and it will be a lot closer because the way our electoral system works than people think.
Labour majority of about 40 and instant questions about Starmer as a leader.
Only 12% of Tory 2019 voters say they don't know who they will vote for this election according to a recent poll by JL Partners. There's very little for the Tories to mine.
A_Tense_Grin
Well-known member
I can't vote Labour. Not happy with the Tories for their hidden tax and freezing tax thresholds but I reckon with Labour I'd lose everything I've worked hard for as they will tax us more.
I am sure FY8 will stay Conservative.
I am sure FY8 will stay Conservative.
'I can't vote for a party that I think will raise my taxes so I will vote for the party that already raised taxes to the highest level in 70 years with nothing to show for it, who have already themselves pledged tax rises for the future'.
You've mentioned struggling to buy tickets for BFC as a reason for why you need more money by tax cuts. I'm actually fine with you sacrificing football tickets if it helps this tbh. This worries me infinitely more.
'Patient found dead with phone ringing in hand after 10 hour ambulance wait'
Patient found dead with phone ringing in hand after 10-hour ambulance wait
A damning survey found a quarter of ambulance workers have witnessed a death due to delays in the past three years, with the research uncovering harrowing stories
www.mirror.co.uk
A_Tense_Grin
Well-known member
'I can't vote for a party that I think will raise my taxes so I will vote for the party that already raised taxes to the highest level in 70 years with nothing to show for it, who have already themselves pledged tax rises for the future'.
You've mentioned struggling to buy tickets for BFC as a reason for why you need more money by tax cuts. I'm actually fine with you sacrificing football tickets if it helps this tbh. This worries me infinitely more.
'Patient found dead with phone ringing in hand after 10 hour ambulance wait'
Patient found dead with phone ringing in hand after 10-hour ambulance wait
A damning survey found a quarter of ambulance workers have witnessed a death due to delays in the past three years, with the research uncovering harrowing stories
To be fair, I will stay away on principal because the club is ripping off home fans just to charge away fans more. I could easily afford it.
Tories just need to give me some indication that they will raise the 40% threshold soon. The fact it's frozen until 2028 is a joke but Labour have said they wouldn't change it either. All us hardworking people being made to suffer for Labour getting the country in so much debt.
The threshold is 50k, you were asked for it to be raised to this amount, so forgive me for praying into your finances but if you didn't already know this, does it really effect you? Again, I care more about people dying with 10 hour waits for an ambulance, than someone in the top 30% getting richer. The gripes I have when you earn that much money is you go backwards when you add in an extra 9% repaying student loan if you are a post 2012 graduate and if you suddenly lose child benefit payments which aren't phased out but come to an abrupt stop, so some start getting punished in the 55k region for earning more. Those are separate issues.
Anyway, public debt. About that...
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
To be fair Edgeley, Farage has always been able to talk the talk. He is Mr Reasonable, always sneaking in a piece of dog whistle filth alongside his 'man of the people' shtick. insecure, ordinary folk can easily be taken in by that nonsense. It must be exposed for what it is.
JJpool
Well-known member
Nasty intolerant elements from the left on show again sadly.
www.express.co.uk
Just look at the state of the guy throwing stuff.
www.thesun.co.uk
No wonder he was cautious of standing, will only gain him more support though.
Nigel Farage rages after Home Office insider reveals ‘threats of violence’
Reform UK leader Nigel Farage said the Home Office needed to be "brought to heel".
www.express.co.uk
Just look at the state of the guy throwing stuff.
Shocking moment Nigel Farage has 'CEMENT' hurled at him on campaign trail
NIGEL Farage had “cement” hurled at him in a shocking attack on the election campaign trail today. The Reform UK leader, 60, was pelted by a yob in Barnsley town centre on Tuesday while…
www.thesun.co.uk
No wonder he was cautious of standing, will only gain him more support though.
A_Tense_Grin
Well-known member
50k.... If I work hard and do well, I suddently get punished with 40% tax and have to repay my child benefit. That goes against the Tory's saying hard work in rewarded. Labour would be even worse.
I am ok with paying back child benefit and that is scaled and the rules on that are fair in my opinion. The thresholds stink though and the Reform party are right to commit to raising this.
Macseasider
Well-known member
Look at the state of the guy on the bus dressed up like he's on an estate shooting party.
If you go round race baiting then karma can be a bitch.
I could not condone throwing wet cement at Nige. At least have the decency to let it set
Any tax system in the world will have "sudden" tax rates, the point is it's marginal. If you earn 55,000 you have a higher income than 87% of the country and the 40% tax rate costs you an extra 800 quid a year. An extra 1.6% of your overall income.
There's people relying on foodbanks, refusing to turn on their oven or radiators midweek to save on energy bills. Kids are shorter than they were a decade ago due to the amount living in poverty and suffering from malnutrition. And you only care about having 42 and a half grand a year after tax rather than 42 grand. Cry me a river.